Collecting Keys - Real Estate Investing Podcast

Scaling a Real Estate Business: Hiring, Systems and KPIs

Going from a few deals a year to several a month is rarely a real estate problem. It's a hiring, sales and systems problem. This guide pulls together what Mike DeHaan, Dan Austin and Dylan Koch have said about who to hire first, what numbers to track, and the point where scaling starts costing you money.

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Who should you hire first in a real estate business?

The hosts' repeated answer is: hire out your weakness, not your strength. On EP 28 they frame it as "need versus want" — if sales is what you're good at, hiring an acquisitions manager will only frustrate you. Hire a lead manager or back-office help instead.

Their own turning point came from doing the opposite of standard advice. A coach told Mike he was bad at working leads because he came from engineering, not sales. They hired a salesperson with about $4,000 in the business account. She locked up seven deals in two weeks from leads already sitting in the CRM, and October 2020 became their first six-figure month.

On EP 144 and EP 296, Mike is specific about what predicts success in that seat: people skills and likability over real estate knowledge. Their first successful acquisitions manager had sold kettle corn at a farmer's market and bartended. He warns against the "young, hungry realtor" who presents well but can't perform, and against corporate B2B veterans, because buying distressed houses from emotional sellers is a different job.

From: EP 28 · EP 144 · EP 296 · EP 247

Why a lead manager may beat an acquisitions manager

Dan calls follow-up the one thing he wishes he'd known when starting out. On EP 55 he describes two tracks: active follow-up handled by acquisitions staff, and an automated cold sequence for leads that go quiet. Their average lead-to-contract time is about 30 days, many take 90+ days, and Dylan closed one lead that had sat 701 days.

EP 299 lays out when the hire makes sense: consistent monthly marketing, a backlog of roughly 100+ warm leads, and ideally a stretch where you did the follow-up yourself so you know what to coach. A dedicated lead manager in their business revived eight to 15 cold leads a week.

Mike's blunt version on EP 131: if you have a few hundred leads and no deals, the problem is sales, not marketing.

From: EP 55 · EP 299 · EP 131 · EP 265

How do you use virtual assistants without wasting money?

Mike and Dan pay Philippines-based VAs roughly $5/hour for lead management, skip tracing and admin work. On EP 39 Mike notes he was once quoted $2,500 just to source an admin VA when Upwork and OnlineJobs.ph let you hire directly. EP 105 adds Reddit's r/forhire as his favorite source, plus referrals from existing staff.

Both hosts are clear that most VA failures are the owner's fault. On EP 39: if multiple people fail in the same role, you're either unclear or asking too much. Greg Brooks made the same point on EP 166 — placements fail because the owner never documented the process.

Screening tricks come up repeatedly: build an odd request into the job post (a voice recording naming a favorite food) to confirm applicants read it. Dave Homyak on EP 353 suggests a test with easy, medium and hard questions, and considering a VA who has managed other VAs so they can quality-check later hires.

From: EP 39 · EP 105 · EP 166 · EP 353

Which KPIs actually matter when scaling?

The hosts track a short list. EP 72 names three: return by marketing channel, which lists closed deals came from, and follow-up hygiene. EP 337 narrows it to cost per deal and contract close rate, because those compare cleanly across operators.

Their published numbers are useful benchmarks. Cost per lead on direct mail runs roughly $120–$160; cost per deal typically $3,000–$4,000. On EP 72 they found cold-calling leads cost about $60 each but roughly $8,000 per deal, while direct mail leads cost $250–$300 and closed at about $3,100. In their 2024 review, Dylan's Cincinnati mail ran about $1,950 per deal; Mike and Dan's local business about $3,400 with just over $20K average profit per deal.

A low cost per lead with a high cost per deal is a sales problem, not a marketing problem. Both hosts warn against judging results monthly — a slow January and a hot February averaged out to the same cost per deal.

From: EP 72 · EP 165 · EP 337 · EP 400

When should you build SOPs and systems?

Mike is consistent that elaborate systems built before revenue are "the business version of paralysis by analysis." On EP 92 he and Dan say they did multiple seven figures without real SOPs. The practical alternative: record a screen video of a task the first time you do it, hand it to a VA, and have them turn it into a written document.

The absence of documentation does eventually show up. A month away exposed gaps — KPIs went un-updated because a VA never knew it was a weekly task. On EP 235 they say it took roughly 11 months of building, scrapping and rebuilding before the business ran without them.

Steve Rozenberg framework on EP 133 is the most structured version they've discussed: set an actual date when the business becomes a saleable asset, build two org charts (today and finished), and give every seat a job description, three to five KPIs and a personality profile.

From: EP 92 · EP 133 · EP 153 · EP 411

Do you need a partner, a coach or a mastermind?

Mike's position on partnerships hardened over time. On EP 57 he allows that complementary skill sets are why a partnership works — he brought technical and marketing, Dan brought practical real estate. By EP 287 he argues most early-stage entrepreneurs shouldn't take a 50/50 partner at all: it's the most expensive leverage available, and what they usually need is a salaried hire. On EP 382 the group adds that you should sign an operating agreement up front covering how things split if it ends.

On coaching, Dan separates three categories on EP 147: group masterminds, mindset or executive coaches, and technical coaches who teach systems. He calls mindset coaching a luxury for people who already cracked the code. He and Mike hired a systems-focused coach because structuring the business, not mindset, was the bottleneck.

Mike's broader claim on EP 77 is that he did flips and bought rentals alone with no real upward trajectory until his first mastermind — and the value was being around people already doing what he was trying to do, not the curriculum.

From: EP 57 · EP 287 · EP 147 · EP 77

What Mike learned working with Alex Hormozi's team

Mike paid for Acquisition.com's two-day scaling workshop ($5,000) and then a year of their level-two program ($15,000). On EP 323 he describes the core claim: the best CEOs aren't the hardest workers but the ones who allocate time, money and energy most strategically — and most owners fail because they gravitate to what they're good at and don't know their numbers. Nearly every recommendation was framed as math: does this lower acquisition cost or raise lifetime value?

Two ideas stuck. Key man risk — replace a "unicorn" employee with "unicorn parts," separate specialists rather than another unicorn. And translated to real estate, lifetime value means better margin, a better buyers list, cheaper money, more work in-house.

The biggest outcome was subtraction. On EP 362 and EP 439, Mike explains the team pushed back on his habit of starting new businesses whenever real estate got harder. A forecast showed standing up their own operation in about four markets would equal the income of 80 franchisees. They wrote off over $250,000 and refocused. His summary: the value wasn't new information, it was hearing known ideas framed with authority, which reduced shiny object syndrome.

From: EP 323 · EP 326 · EP 362 · EP 439

When does scaling stop paying?

This is where the hosts changed their minds most publicly. On EP 376 they explain why they wound down a 15–16 market national operation to focus on Spokane. The national business ran a $4,800 cost per deal with about $15,000 average profit; the local business ran $2,500 cost per deal, 7.5x return on ad spend and $22,000 profit per deal with almost no overhead. Margins nationally fell from around 25% to about 15%.

On EP 443, guest Cole Ruud-Johnson puts a number on the sweet spot: roughly $1M–$1.5M a year at 50–60% margins with three to five people. Mike and Dan add their own data point — just over $4M in revenue with about 20 staff produced barely more take-home than a $1.3M year with two people. On EP 452 they extend it: a wholesaling or flipping business generally isn't sellable, so you're paid in yearly cash flow, not an exit.

They ultimately sold the home buying company. The lesson they draw is that more revenue is not more money, and concentrating on one thing beat spreading attention across several.

From: EP 376 · EP 443 · EP 452 · EP 460

Frequently asked questions

What is the first hire for a real estate investing business?

It depends on what you're bad at. Mike and Dan hired an acquisitions manager first because sales was their weakness, and she closed seven deals in two weeks from existing CRM leads. If you're already the strong closer, they recommend a lead manager or admin support instead.

How much should a deal cost in marketing?

Across their own businesses and verified operators, the hosts cite roughly $3,000–$4,500 cost per deal, with direct mail cost per lead around $120–$160. Dylan's Cincinnati mail ran about $1,950 per deal in 2024; Mike and Dan's local business about $3,400.

How long before a new real estate business makes money?

Mike, Dan and Dylan all describe roughly four to six months and about $30,000 in marketing before a first deal. Mike's survey of a mastermind group put average time to profitability at six to nine months.

Should I take on a business partner?

Mike's view on EP 287 is that most early-stage investors should hire an employee instead, because a 50/50 partner is the most expensive leverage there is. He allows complementary skill sets can make it work, and the hosts stress signing an operating agreement covering an exit first.

Do I need SOPs before I hire?

The hosts say no. They did multiple seven figures without formal systems. Their advice is to record a short video of each repetitive task as you do it, hand it to a VA, and let the first person in the seat help build the written process.

All 294 episodes on scaling a real estate business