Finding Your Perfect Partner In Real Estate w/ Tyler Wehrung

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] Really quick before the show starts, in case you haven't heard, we have a growing community of investors called the scale community, which is full of people learning to make massive income with their real estate businesses, so they can reach financial freedom a little bit faster than building a rental portfolio solely over time, because honestly, that takes decades and who has time for that. So if you're an investor who is serious about growing and creating a scalable business without needing to be a slave to it twenty four seven, then go to collectingkeys.com/scale and apply. And if you're a good fit, we would love to have you join the community. So again, collectingkeys.com/scale. Go ahead and apply, and we'll see if you're a good fit.

Tyler Wehrung: [0:38] None of my posts get a ton of engagement, like likes and stuff, but I get, like, DMs all the time from people. So we brought on two people just from social media, you know, private lenders. That's changed our business a lot, surprisingly, just social media.

Mike DeHaan: [0:50] What is going on, guys? Welcome to today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast. Today is the scale show, and we are welcomed by Tyler Wehrung out of Cincinnati. And Dylan is here too. He's been our our newest cohost, and I don't know if you guys do this piece also in Cincinnati. So, ultimately, these guys are just gonna brawl over who is the best investor in Cincinnati since they are both scale members, both in the same market, and both doing a heck of a lot of deals. But, anyway, we are here to talk with Tyler today about what exactly his business looks like and how he's been successful over there in that Midwestern market. I guess, is Ohio considered the Midwest, or is that, like, you get in the East Coast if you get out there?

Tyler Wehrung: [1:32] I think we're still Midwest.

Mike DeHaan: [1:34] Are you?

Tyler Wehrung: [1:34] Never been called East Coast.

Mike DeHaan: [1:35] So I mean, you're East Coast time. So that's kind of basically, being from the Pacific Coast, the Mississippi, everything went past that is kinda like the the East Coast as far as I'm concerned.

Tyler Wehrung: [1:44] Enough. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [1:45] But awesome. Well, Tyler, dude, to kick us off, give us three minute, a quick little rundown of who you are, where you're based, and what your team currently looks like.

Tyler Wehrung: [1:55] Cool. Yeah. So like you said, just North of Cincinnati, actually, but born and raised here. You know, spent my whole life in Cincinnati leading up to high school where, you know, I really grew up middle class, I I should say, and always, like, in all of my circles, everybody else was middle class as well. I really didn't know anybody wealthy or that had money. So I don't know. From an early age, I can always remember, like, really wanting that. And so to do that, I knew I needed to go to college or at least I I thought that, but I also grew up very averse to debt. So when I turned 18, I found out that I could join the air force, that they would pay for my college degree so that I could then go into corporate America, which in my mind at the time, I thought, like, that was my vision of success. You know, wear a suit and tie, carry a briefcase in to work every day. So, ultimately, I I left at 18, joined the United States Air Force. I did seven and a half years there, and that's also where I stumbled into real estate. So I was living off base. I I did that one year in an apartment, and they were getting ready to jack my rent, like, way up. So I just started chatting with some folks and was like, hey.

Tyler Wehrung: [2:57] Like, you know, what what are you guys doing? And I learned about the VA loan. So when I was still on active duty, I purchased my first house with zero down. I was just like, this is super cool. I just go sign a bunch of paperwork, pay about the same rent I'm paying now, and now I have a three bedroom, like, nice house. So I do that. And while I was ultimately leaving the military to move back home to start a family back to Cincinnati, the market had shot up. So I was like, I could sell this and make, you know, 10 or $15, but a couple of my friends were actually, like, started renting. Like, dude, just rent it out. You can you'll you'll make money, you don't even have to to do anything. So I did that, and fortunately enough, like I picked like a, you know, a rockstar property manager just by chance, and got my first mailbox money, if you will. And that's really what like got me, like, really wanted to sink my teeth into real estate.

Dylan Koch: [3:42] When was that, Tyler? Like what time frame?

Tyler Wehrung: [3:44] I moved back to Cincinnati in 2016. Okay. And so this whole time, like I was in, I knew that ultimately I wanted to come back home and buy a house and start a family. So we had been saving up like this down payment. So when I moved back home, as you know, I've started to look for a property here to live in, and then I found out you can use the VA loan again. So I bought a house with a VA loan again, just went and signed some papers again, and I still had this, like, down payment fund. So then I was able to really talk my wife into, like, hey. We got this one property down here in Charleston, South Carolina. Let's try to do it again up here with another rental. And so that had kinda some seed capital to start the rental portfolio business. So long story short, that's really where how I got into real estate. I built up a portfolio of up to 25 units at one point in time and ultimately realized that I wasn't gonna be able to retire off a passive income unless I, you know, quadrupled where I was currently at. And I really didn't have the the want, the energy, or the bandwidth to do that. So, ultimately, I got into off market real estate. I got into off market real estate in 2020. Took, like, a one year hiatus before I started back up again this year in 2024 with a partner this time around. And so we're currently we just spun that business up in January, and it's just me and my partner right now, fifty fifty partners. We can dive more into what that looks like now, but that's that's our current team.

Mike DeHaan: [5:02] Yeah. So I guess what is your what's your current business question? I you're an agent as well. Yep. And so you're an agent investor. When you're focusing on residential, are you guys wholesaling? Are you flipping? Are you still just doing buy and hold? What's that look like?

Tyler Wehrung: [5:17] We're primarily like, our business model is to flip two houses a month. But, you know, obviously, a huge fan or you know, like, my partner's whole piece of the partnership is to manage contractors in the flip operation. Like, that's his specialty. So for that reason, we are specializing on flipping, but we have wholesale to deal this year. I mean, not not opposed to it. When everything you know, the stars align and we, you know, got too much on our plate, that's what we'll do. But not ultimately looking for buy and holds, you know, as part of the business plan. However, Dylan and I have kind of been talking about just from a tax perspective, we kind of do need to start looking for something for those reasons. But our pure business model is to buy and sell two houses a month, flips.

Dylan Koch: [5:57] Yeah. No, that's crazy. And I just wanted the audience to know Tyler is also being humble. When I first met him, he's kinda got what me into off market real estate. He also runs a meetup in his local area and has written a book about HELOCs too. So this we can get into this But maybe a little bit I wanna dive back because I see you as, having two different business lives. I know you had this W-two that was pretty well paying, that you're also doing this off market real estate on the side. And then now you have the business life of you and your partner fiftyfifty with no W-two. Right? So what would you say is the biggest change between those two things? Or why did you choose the partnership the second time around?

Tyler Wehrung: [6:34] So from 2020 to ultimately probably late twenty twenty two, I was, yeah, still working full time corporate America and running every aspect of the off market real estate business on my own. It was insanely chaotic. I dropped balls everywhere. All the heavy tasks just fly out, didn't get done when I got busy. So, like, for me, when I looked back on that, it was just it just didn't feel, like, you know, well oiled at all. It didn't feel like I really had a business. It was just, like, just, you know, trying to keep too many balls in the air and ultimately just got burned out, frankly. And so what what really kind of pivotal point, and and Dylan knows some of this, so it really, like, a personal situation came up with my son. And right when I was getting ready to step away from corporate America to try to do this full time, we needed some health benefits to explore some things that were going on. Fortunately, every you know, everything checked out. Everything was good, but I took so much time off, it was really hard to I wasn't really motivated to jump right back into the same fire that that I was living in the prior two years. So, ultimately, I was approached by my partner, and he came with a ton of experience in the exact areas that I hated about this business was which was managing contractors, managing budgets, etcetera, being out in the field, I guess, in general. Like, I'm a for better or worse, just, you know, middle class, like, white collar white dude. And so it was really hard for me to go to these job sites dealing with, like, hardcore blue collar, like, hammer swinging guys and be able to negotiate with them and all. Like, could tell me something like, this budget increased by x.

Mike DeHaan: [8:06] I'm just

Tyler Wehrung: [8:06] like, okay, cool. Like, I'm, like, the worst manager I'd ever so when he approached me with that, being willing to take over that piece, and he he's, you know, has established track record in that area as well. So when he was offered to pick that up, I I really love the marketing, the back end systems part of it. Like, I'm a computer nerd at heart and a numbers guy, Excel, you know, that's where I live. So to be able to just manage all of that and have him do everything out in the field, it was just like a no brainer for us

Dylan Koch: [8:33] to He's answering all the calls that you guys take out or the marketing.

Tyler Wehrung: [8:36] Yep. He takes all the calls, runs all appointments. I say not like primarily. You know, we're still in that early phase where, like, if something comes up or two people come in, you know, I still do enjoy, like, talking to sellers, you know, here and there, running some appointments, but it was just I think it felt heavy to me to be have to do every single one of those. I was like, when a call comes in and you know you own it from, you know, soup to nuts, that to me felt heavy, and and so now we have a lot of flexibility to be able to shuffle the deck where it most makes sense.

Dylan Koch: [9:05] And for the audience, he's not lying. There were several times at the beginning where I was trying to doctor up a Excel list or marketing. I'd call Tyler and be like, what the hell could I do to make this easier? And he'd always have the answer. So

Mike DeHaan: [9:15] Gotcha. So that that's your I was gonna say, so your partner is receiving the calls, running appointments, doing the sales calls, managing the contractors, managing the flips, doing negotiations. So what do you do? Like

Dylan Koch: [9:28] Caches checks.

Mike DeHaan: [9:29] Caches checks. Yeah.

Tyler Wehrung: [9:31] Yeah. Is that is that no. Yeah. So I basically own it from, like, the the very beginning up until I order all the marketing, get the phone to ring, kinda just like how the terms that we use. So you get the phone to ring, he talks to them, runs the appointments. I'll do all, like, the comps. We'll come up with the offer. I'll pretty much say where we need to be on the offer based on, you know, where I think we could sell it for. And then once either I'll deliver the price or he'll deliver the price depending on rapport, and that's one benefit too, like, for for any other operators out there. Like, we oftentimes play, like, the good cop, bad cop. You know? Like, he'll go out and give a a low offer, get screamed at, then I call back in and, like, hey. Look. You know? That you know? Come in. That's a good cop. So that works out a lot, and then we end up kind of just passing leads back and forth depending, like, on the rapport. But then, ultimately, I take it from contract. I take it over from him, like, you know, re change the phone number, everything comes to me, deal with all the title work and getting it closed on the front end, and then, you know, obviously, then he'll he'll we'll turn over the rehab to him.

Tyler Wehrung: [10:29] I do all the bookkeeping for all the flips, etcetera. And then once it's ready to go, I take it back over and take over as a listing agent and get it sold.

Mike DeHaan: [10:37] Nice. So, basically, your guys' partnership set up homes like a front office, back office, which is a great way to do it. You're kinda doing all the behind the scenes stuff, And he's doing everything that is, would say, present with with other people. That's a good way to set it up. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you can set up partnerships in this business, right? So like, for example, me and Dan, I used to basically own everything pre contract. So I would do the marketing and the sales and, you know, lead follow-up stuff. Then once the contract was signed, he would handle disposition, closing on the property and flip it and property management. I've also seen a lot of people where they have somebody that does exclusively the sales, right? And that's like their only piece and then somebody does like just like the marketing, but then also the disposition piece as well or the project management piece because that's a little bit more analytical. And, I mean, I think the key is with any partnership, not like you guys hit it on the head, is finding out what your skill sets are and also not only, like, stuff that you get at, but what doesn't, like, drain you. So I think that that's something that is people have to learn for themselves is they think that they have a skill set. It's like what they went to school for or it's what they were good at, like, in high school, but you hate it. And so, like, is that real really the part of the business that you should do that's gonna be taking you sixty to eighty hours a week to sort of get off the ground, probably not because you're gonna burn out. Right?

Tyler Wehrung: [11:48] I say, like, my most important role aside from just making sure marketing cranks out is I'm also, like, in charge of, like, capital. So I I meet with all the private lenders. Like, I build up, like, our whole private lender pipeline so that he can kinda just stay focused in the field. He's, like, at his best when he's just bouncing around for projects, meeting with people. And, like, for me, I I can sit in this chair most of the day or, like, have lunch with lenders and really doing, like, the, I guess, maybe deeper level things where he's kinda just out out running there. And another piece, like, you touched on, I just wanna highlight too is ironically enough, like, I brought up, like, how bad I am at managing contractors. My w two corporate job was a software development project manager. Like, I managed people for a living, but it was that different like, the I had was I'm managing people who are also making 6 figures, and the way you manage those people is a 100% different than you need to manage. No contractors, ten ninety nines out there, you know, in these flips. So, you know, I had that realization and just, you know, it hit me. Was like, that's I'm just not I don't have what it takes. I can't I think it came down to I could I'm those not relatable at all with with these folks.

Mike DeHaan: [12:54] Yeah. Managing those blue collar people making multi, multi 6 figures now is is hard. It's hard to work with rich people. Right? Like, to all those all those blue collar people.

Tyler Wehrung: [13:03] It took me a second.

Dylan Koch: [13:04] I was

Tyler Wehrung: [13:05] like, what are you saying? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [13:07] Now we kinda got the lay of the land, Tyler, this business probably feels a lot lighter to you now that you have your partner, but what does that current marketing spend look like? Is that just one channel, two channels? How are you kinda sourcing the deals right now?

Tyler Wehrung: [13:19] I'm a little hesitant to kinda say this out loud because I know and just listening to all of you guests, and being like, I think my first round of those first two years of business kind of helped me not get on my high horse here, but we're essentially like on a super hot streak with mail, so our cost per deal right now is at $1,200, right, we've we had nine under contract, so I don't think enough to really say, you know, that this is there. But so honestly, we were marketing. You know, our first year we wanted to get to where we were doing a deal a month, like a a flip a month. So I was sending out, like, $1,500 to mail to kinda get some things going, and we popped off like three or four deals, and we two referral deals, so that kinda obviously messes up the math there too as well. And then one of our other deals that's set to close next month is a referral.

Dylan Koch: [14:02] Well you take out those referrals, Tyler, and then that just goes up what, 2,000, 2,500 maybe? I'm just trying to do like quick mental math.

Tyler Wehrung: [14:09] Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably right. Yeah. For the most part, we're doing a lot of direct mail. We do have like the Google like brand name searches, Dundee, know, Facebook. You know, at the beginning, we're doing everything. Ironically enough, we just one of my buddies has a building on a high traffic road here. So we're we're trying out billboard. We're kinda just throwing everything out there, but, you know, right now, direct mail's kinda been our bread and butter. Almost exclusively the ROS postcards with with the offer on them. That's our first drip in the the sequence, and then then we follow-up with just the standard random, you know, touching on the different motivation points, but almost everything has come from the ROS postcards.

Dylan Koch: [14:45] So it's like you're doing mostly flips right now. For the audience, how are you kind of underwriting your deals? Are you using a standard ARV 75, 70% minus repairs? Or are you backing into that some other way?

Tyler Wehrung: [14:56] We're pretty close to that. Same 70 to 75 depending on like, it's a big rehab, I'm using 70. If it's real quick, 75. If it's paint, carpet, we'll go up to 80. You know, that's kind of like rule of thumb or where we come up with our, you know, first offer. But also, like, start with a very conservative comp too. I think that's a that's a big thing where I, you know, I talk to a lot of other people and look at their deals, I'm like, well, this one comp sold for, you know, the highest comp ever in this neighborhood. Let me do 70% of that.

Dylan Koch: [15:22] Yeah.

Tyler Wehrung: [15:22] Yeah. So I I try to start very low, and then, obviously, like, another piece of I think why we've been winning so many offers is with with my partner and the contractor, he gets almost all bids on just labor from people in the network. So I think we can probably pay a lot more than some other operators Your

Dylan Koch: [15:41] rehab costs is low.

Tyler Wehrung: [15:41] Due to the Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [15:43] Right. Right. Right. Just knowing the area, your average purchase price, I'm assuming, is anywhere between 50 and $1.50. I mean, that's kind of a wide range. Yeah. And then what are you selling those at?

Tyler Wehrung: [15:53] I'd say if I had to give like averages, we're at probably like $75.80 purchase price selling for $18,200.

Mike DeHaan: [16:00] That range seems to honestly be where it's at right now. Like, even in my my little car here in Spokane, all of our deals are in like that low 300 exit price. But this is in a market where the average home price is like $4.50. Right? And so, like, just staying in that lower echelon, it's easier to get buyers. Investors are more willing to invest that money because it's not gonna require them to have a huge down payment, a hard money loan, easier to exit because the general population can actually afford that home with seven and a half percent interest rates. Back to your back to your marketing as well, how many leads are you getting per month off that spend? Because, like, that's a not a very big spend at all. So you guys must, like you're either just getting super low cost per lead or you guys are just clinical with your closing on some of these leads that come in.

Tyler Wehrung: [16:42] I'd say a little bit of both. That's that's one metric I can't kind of spout off the top of my head. So right right now since January, we have 85 leads in our CRM, like, total leads.

Mike DeHaan: [16:53] So you can't you're you're only getting, like, 10 leads a month. Like so so you're you're you're rate's insane. And I think that that's where your benefit of having the cheap labor is probably coming in. And then you said you have, like, private investors that that help fund your deals. Do you mind if I ask, like, what you're paying those people out? Or, like, are those interest only loans? Are they, like, just funding your down payments? You're getting hard money loans? What's all that look like?

Tyler Wehrung: [17:17] Yeah. In the very beginning, like, I was trying to speak everything the speak that I heard, which is, like, this amount of points, this amount of interest only. And like, I could almost just like see it go right over people's head. They you know, like, when you're pitching to private lenders or like friends who, you know, are still working corporate America, they don't know about like points and, you know, all this stuff. So, ultimately, like, the pivot I made that seemed to work, like, maybe it it it just worked. Like, I stopped saying points, and I just we do a $1,250 processing fee. So I just say, like, hey. This is for your trouble for, like, wiring the funds. You're gonna hit get a wire fee. We're gonna pay you $12.50 on the back end, and then you're gonna get interest only 11% until we close on it. And also, we're gonna guarantee four months of those payments. Because I felt like a lot of people's first objection is, what if you buy this thing and sell it next month? I'm gonna get a $600 check. And, like, cool. So, yeah, that was the other thing. And then when I send out these marketing, or I call it like lending proposals, so I go in Canva and I, you know, spread them out and I put the very minimum return in there. So it's I put all four months of those interest only payments plus that $12.50 fee, and so they see, you know, if I'm gonna lend you $65, I'm gonna at least get, like, 4,500 back no matter what. And even if he buys it today and sells it tomorrow, or if he sells it on that fifth month, he's gonna get that plus that extra month of interest payments. So for me, like, those two pivots would just, I mean, nothing, you know, science about it. But just from going through those pitches over and over, once I started, like, implementing those two pieces, we had a lot more success onboarding private lenders.

Mike DeHaan: [18:46] Sure. How do you find your private lenders right now? Because this is always one of the big questions that honestly, I face a ton, mostly because I hang out with entrepreneurs or, like, real estate guys. Like, I don't want 11%. I want, you know, save my money for my own investment. Mhmm. You already said you didn't come from a rich network growing up. Are you just, old white collar friends or you like hanging out the country club or, you know, the cigar lounges. That's apparently the place that people go these days to meet old rich dudes.

Tyler Wehrung: [19:15] I think when I first joined the community, was one of my big questions to you. And like, you're always asking for what kind of content do you wanna hear? I'm like, how do you do this? So a lot of it's been trial and error, but what's worked for me is that's been I think when something's like your sole focus and you just think about how can I do it, how can I do it, when you're in the shower, when you're taking walks or whatever, you just, like, start to try different things? And so one of the other things, like, at your recommendation is, you know, super active on social media now, and I never felt like I could be when I worked w two. So I don't know if, you know, there's probably other folks in that position where you feel like you can't always talk about real estate when you're working that full time job because, you know, kinda conflict of interest there. So social media, just talking about what you do, you'd be surprised, like, how many people none of my posts get a ton of engagement, like, likes and stuff, but I get, like, DMs all the time from people. And so you brought on two people just from social media, private lenders, and then also just like looking at your network and really thinking about like who has money. Who's like likely has money and how can I like just create a touch point with them? So a lot of your like parents' friends are a good one for me.

Tyler Wehrung: [20:20] It's like my parents' demographics are, like, in the 50 to 70 range. And so, you know, over the years, you meet all your parents, friends, and family and stuff like that. And so just getting creative with, like, how you can reach out. So, hey. You know, I remember I haven't seen you in years. Like, hope all is well. Like, how are the kids and stuff? And, yeah, I'd actually just quit my job, and I'm doing full time flips in real estate right now and, you know, just kinda see where the conversation goes. Most of the time, they're just gonna, you know, just gonna blow right over their head, and some of them are like, oh, that's so cool. Like, I've been seeing your videos and stuff. Like, how are you doing all that? And and it kinda just opens the door.

Dylan Koch: [20:54] Close rate on private lenders is also good, not just with leads.

Mike DeHaan: [20:56] Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. That's a whole other sales process too.

Dylan Koch: [21:00] I mean, Tyler, to put words in your mouth that you said you're better at managing. The software engineers. That's probably more in line with what you're comfortable with too.

Tyler Wehrung: [21:08] Yeah. And I think ultimately, and I think going back to a question you asked me early on, but when I really thought about it when I was a solo operator in this business, this business is almost like five businesses all wrapped up under one umbrella. It's your sales and marketing, you know, especially if you're flipping, then you got a construction business, and then if you're lending, you have that, like, that's a whole other business of, like, you know, talking with leads and making sure you have a certain amount of leads that you're talking to a month for just private capital, not, you know, leads coming into your pipeline.

Mike DeHaan: [21:35] Some people go through that same, I would say, like, trajectory of they start to make money in one, and they try to, like, branch off. And, like, well, I've been doing really well wholesaling, so I'm gonna start trying to flip houses more. They're like, well, but I can make more money flipping out so I have my own team. So now I have a construction crew. And they're like, oh, I'm starting to make all these money, so I'm gonna start lending. Right? And they're like, oh, well, I can only you know, I'm recognizing I'm getting all these loan opportunities. I'm start raising money for that. I mean, this is exactly what we did. It's what a lot of other people do. And I can tell you from experience, don't do that. Because now, honestly, if I could go back in time, I would wish that the like, on the real estate specific businesses, I would have just kept it strictly to one of them. Because what happens is you get distracted going all these different ways, trying to build all these different things that turns to a freaking nightmare.

Tyler Wehrung: [22:16] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:16] It's it. And also to you, you end up making, like, a little bit of money off of every single one, and you're like, if I just fully invested on one of them, it probably would have been net larger over the long run. Yo. If you don't follow me on Instagram, which is at mike underscore invests, by the way, then you might not know that we officially have a new mission as a brand, and that is to help 2,000 real estate investors build million dollar businesses. Obviously, to do that, we need to get in front of as many people as possible. So quick little ask to help us reach that goal. First, shoot me a follow on Instagram at Mike underscore invests. Second, follow collecting keys podcast on Instagram. That's at collecting keys podcast all written out. And third, every time the algorithm is kind enough to show you a post from either of us, share it on your story or in your post and tag us. If you do that, I'll DM you and we can have a little DM conversation about what is preventing you from having that million dollar business that everyone is seeking. And we can see if we can come up with a plan to help you make that massive income, not just passive income. So again, if you see any of our posts, just go ahead, reshare them, tag us, and let everyone know that you enjoy the content we produce. It will help us a ton, and then I'll be happy to help you as well.

Dylan Koch: [23:30] I wanna ask you about a lot of thing you you hit on earlier. You were kind of a strong buy and hold guy at the beginning. You said you got 25 units. I know some of those were single families all the way to like, what, nine unit apartment, something like that. Yep. I don't know how many you sold, but you sold some of these and then kinda restarted. Can you walk us through, like, what made you make the decision to sell some of them, and what's your kind of opinion on buy and hold now?

Tyler Wehrung: [23:50] I was planning to leave corporate America, but my job was pretty easy. Was really good friends with a lot of people I worked with, so there was that friction point too. Wasn't like I go in here and, like, hate it every day. You know, it's very easy to quit. So, however, I got put on, like, this project that me and then this lead person that I was under so as a project manager, you bounce around under people all the time. So I got with this person, we just butted heads, and it got really ugly, and that helped me kind of like push me over the ledge a lot. So when I started to realize, like, is I was bringing too much stress home, I was on the computer way too late, Ultimately, I just started thinking, if I just buy or sell most of my portfolio, that'll give us more than a year's worth of runway to have seed capital and be able to keep a roof over our head and everything. So ultimately, that was my decision of why I really sold everything, And also that, you know, I spent, what, like, five or six years building up this portfolio that really, from a true material aspect of my life, really wasn't changing things a whole lot. Like, yeah, I was probably at the top making, like, 3,500 a month if we true passive income. But, like, at the end of the day, that's in in terms of, like, doing deals, that's really not moving the needle a whole lot.

Tyler Wehrung: [25:01] So that, it was like, well, what am I really losing? Like, $3 a month? Like, let's just sell it all and see what else I can come up with. I knew that if I was gonna start this business back up, it's, you know, insanely capital intensive, especially when you're flipping multiple houses a month. I knew I would need that capital as well. So that's kinda ultimately the decision. I guess, when we ask, like, what what do I think about it today? I'm ultimately a fan of buy and hold real estate, and I plan to get back into it. But for me, it's it's less about what it looks like on paper. You know, like, in the beginning, it was all, like, I pop all the numbers into, you know, these calculators. It has to spit out double digit cash on cash return. It has to do all these things. But for me now, it's like, is this in a good area? Do I wanna hold it long term? Is it gonna be a maintenance nightmare? Now it's like, really want all brick things in a class neighborhoods even if it loses money every month. Like, I'm buying it for the long term in places where good people want to live in them. So you kind of complete one eighty shift on it, and look at it from a wealth building perspective rather than like a cash flow, I need to exit my job perspective.

Dylan Koch: [26:03] And your ROE, I don't know if you did it, it was probably pretty low, Your return on equity when you did go and sell those. Right? We just had that conversation on our recent podcast.

Tyler Wehrung: [26:10] So Yep.

Mike DeHaan: [26:11] Yeah. It's it's it's interesting to see people that have been around for a while. It's like that same I don't wanna say like moment sort of comes around with people where it's like, it's just so much of a headache to maintain some of these, like, cash flow properties. And and, ultimately, as you start to learn to make money outside of that, you're like, I just wanna own something that's gonna be good still in, like, ten years. Mhmm. You know? And and all of a sudden, that location, location, location, which is like the boomer sort of logic around real estate, it actually makes a lot of sense. But you gotta have a long term long term view, which is hard to do when you're just focused on cash flow so you don't have to work at w two anymore.

Tyler Wehrung: [26:49] Yeah. 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [26:50] Nice, man. So out of all the stuff that you put together, I mean, you've done a few different iterations of this business. You're doing it yourself, taking a break, have a partner. What do you think is, like, the best system that you've integrated overall that's, like, been if you if you look back at everything, you're like, that is one of the big reasons that we were successful.

Tyler Wehrung: [27:06] That's a tough question. It probably is the whole system that you guys teach. I mean, obviously, I learned a lot of it from, you know, Ryan Dossi and the CCF program. But if you don't have that sales, that whole pipeline, you know, so many people do this so unorganized, it's just a complete mess. So I think just that ability to learn that and to treat it like a system, treat it like a business, you know, track your KPIs, inputs and outputs, like, just that small shifts, like, I feel like that's kind of a simple answer, but when I talk to other people who are trying to do this, that just don't have that, they don't think in that manner, or they're familiar with what this could look like, I think it has to go back to that.

Mike DeHaan: [27:43] Yeah. Just like that core consistent marketing system, basically what you're saying.

Dylan Koch: [27:46] And even using a CRM, using a call center, whatever that may be.

Tyler Wehrung: [27:50] Yeah. Exactly. Understanding what the follow-up process looks like. My personality, like before all this was like, oh no, they told me no. And so like, they're gone forever, you know? But to know, no

Dylan Koch: [28:01] Mark them dead,

Mike DeHaan: [28:02] move on.

Tyler Wehrung: [28:03] I have like a, I want everybody to be amicable all the time, like real friendly, like if you tell me something, I truly mean it, so But kinda understanding from a sales lens, you have to kinda turn that off and and truly treat it like a no. You have to make this amount of calls to get this kinda output. And as simple as that is, yeah, and then slapping it into a CRM to organize it all. I mean, if anybody out there is, like, trying to do this on their own, just that little piece right there would be a game changer. And it was for me.

Mike DeHaan: [28:31] Yeah. It's funny though too because, like, so regularly, I mean, people within scale. Right? They'll be like, well, I'm waiting to pay the $79 for Ari Simply until I have x amount of leads. I'm like, wait. All you need is one deal to make like a 100 times that return, honestly. Like, pretty close to

Dylan Koch: [28:50] We'd have

Mike DeHaan: [28:51] to put

Dylan Koch: [28:52] them on blast, but there was someone it was like probably a couple months ago that was like trying to re up their free trial on PropStream with like different emails. And I was like, that is

Mike DeHaan: [29:02] Just the effort alone, what a pain in the butt.

Tyler Wehrung: [29:05] Think that spending on your business though is like a muscle, because in the beginning, like, you know, before I, you know, joined the first group, I was so averse to any software or anything like that. It's like, oh, it's not free. They don't have a free trial or whatever. But, like, once you do it, so you gotta start small and then it's like, oh, whatever, yeah, I'll throw another couple 100, then it's like, throw a couple thousand. I think it is a muscle you have to start small with, and then it just becomes a like you just get like one result from it, then you're like, okay, let's just crank it up a little bit.

Dylan Koch: [29:32] Yeah. That's just the cost of doing business. You don't even think about it after a while.

Mike DeHaan: [29:35] Right. Yeah. And if anything, it it turns into like, can I pay more money to just make this easier? Yeah. Right. Right. Because I'm kinda sick of dealing with Did someone

Tyler Wehrung: [29:43] else do this?

Dylan Koch: [29:44] I had a I have one other question before we dive into the last three for Tyler, just because of our relationship over the past couple years. The meetup that you run, and specifically, like, all the people you've met through that, I mean, I know so of the people in that, and they're high level people especially in your market. Mhmm. Can you speak to what those relationships, how did they propel you especially at the beginning? And when did you even start that meetup and

Tyler Wehrung: [30:04] I started a meetup as soon as I moved back here, out of pure selfish reasons. I didn't know anything about real estate, but I knew I wanted to jump in. So I wanted to know all the players and kinda have that ability to reach out to them with any questions that I had. So, yeah, I started out, think the first meetup was my brother, my friend, and then, like, one stranger showed up. And it's super low key, and I intentionally keep it that way. Any salespeople come in, no one can come pitch anything, but it's really just trying to get high level, not even high level, anybody who's actually doing deals or wants to very quickly, versus I think the Rias and stuff, it's like, if you even like have a dream of one day owning a property, come eat popcorn and bring your cookies or something.

Dylan Koch: [30:46] So And buy my $50 pamphlet or

Tyler Wehrung: [30:49] whatever it may be. Yeah. So but, yeah, that's how it started. And it was nothing's advertised. It's all like and so one person would come bring a friend the next time, and it just kinda slowly organically grew. But really, like, what it's done for me, like, a couple people would bring me deals first or, like, I've gotten a couple listings or, hey. Will you, you know, help out list this? And it's more of a credibility piece. You know, people just kinda see me as, like, the organizer even though, you know, there's so many people there that are well beyond where I'm at. It's just, I think, you know, my name's on the organizer tab, and I'm just kinda known for putting this thing together.

Dylan Koch: [31:22] Yeah. I just wanted, like, the early deals, early is, you know, so the people we know at the beginning, I would lean on them a lot, like, with, like, a sub two deal or how do you renting your numbers, like, stuff like that. And I was just trying to get that point across to people who are newer, find yourself start a meetup. Tyler didn't know anything, and, you'll get those connections a lot quicker if you want it.

Tyler Wehrung: [31:40] Yeah. Quick shout out to Josh Hershner. I think he's helped me and Dylan on probably more deals than we could count here. So

Dylan Koch: [31:46] Dude, he bought that place for me on Main Street, and they used the only buyer I could ever think of that could even take that on. Yeah. So

Mike DeHaan: [31:51] Nice. Those are good connections to have. And I like too that you said you started that and it was just like your would you say your brother, your friend, and we ran and you kept doing it? Because so many people have, like, this weird illusion that they're gonna start a meetup and, like, 50 people are gonna come. And what I would say, what you did is better because I've also I've seen people, especially larger brands, there's one here in town, started a meetup, and they advertise it forever. And like, 200 people came to the first one. And then the second one, there was 100. And now they're down to like 16. And it's like, well, that's a bad sign. Like, you want it to be slowly going up. Mhmm. But the thing is those people were were going to that, and they were getting pitched constantly by, like, the lender that had paid to be there or the insurance broker or themselves because they, like, tried to do a local mentorship thing. Really, what they wanted was people to cold call it for them for free. Like, it was Lucky. A stupid thing. And and so that that community part of it, I think, is so so important, and that's awesome you've been able to capture that.

Tyler Wehrung: [32:45] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [32:46] Alright. So we're gonna dive into our end of show questions here to finish up. And, Tyler, I appreciate all the information you gave me, Had some really, really good knowledge there. And I like that that what you went through as well is simple, relatable. People always wanna overcomplicate things, and it just shows once again that it doesn't need to be that way. But our first question to round out the show here is what is your craziest real estate investing story?

Tyler Wehrung: [33:12] I feel like we often get, like, jaded or, like, callouses from all the crazy stuff in the off market world. So I was gonna tell a quick story on my very first rental that I bought. It's still probably one of the craziest stories that I have. So I bought my first rental was super low. I bought this thing for $40,000 because it didn't have running water, but it was listed on the MLS. So it kept going under contract, out of contract, whatever. So I bought this thing for $40,000, put water I think I put water lines in it for, like, $3, and I was getting ready to rent out. And so I was like, if I can get a 2% deal, which, I mean, market rent, it was, 800 was probably, like, the top for this range. So having dinner with a buddy, and I was like, hey, then I'm getting ready to rent this first house out. I'm gonna try to get $800. Like, that was gonna be, like, man, if I got that, it's gonna be sweet. And he had a couple of his, we call them, like, migrant workers with him, and he's like, yeah. Hey. These guys are in town for they're gonna be here for, like, the next year. Would you be interested in letting them stay there? He said their budget was, like, $1,800. And I was like, bro, if you give me $1,800, like, they can they can do whatever they want with this house. So ultimately, I put them in there. You probably kinda see where their story's going. So they didn't speak a lick of English.

Tyler Wehrung: [34:15] You know, we communicated on Google Translate via text, but every month on the first, like, $1,800, cold hard cash. Like, it was awesome. Like, that was on top of the world. So, like, month four goes by, though, and I text the guy, and he's like, hey. Actually, like, I took another job. I'm down in Texas now, but my other buddy that was living there, he invited some more buddies in and whatever. So I'm like, hey. It's $1,800, man. Like and, you know, he met me at the same Walmart parking lot, gave me the cash or whatever. So another couple months goes by, he kinda moves out. So now there's, a third party in there with other folks that I've never even met. But so I reached out to get try to get the rent. He he wasn't texting me back. So the neighbor, like, just, like, a Saturday night, the neighbor calls me across the street, he's like, hey, have you been to this house lately? You might wanna get over here, like, now. And I was, like, out of town or something. I don't remember. I couldn't get over there. But when I got there the next day, he's like, bro, there was, like, 15 cop cars out in front of this house. There was like people running around everywhere bleeding and stuff. And so what happened was there was probably like fifteen, twenty people living in this two bedroom house and they got in like this huge brawl on a Saturday night, started, like, getting knives out and was, like, stabbing each other or whatever. So I show up to this house the next yeah. This next day, there's it's just covered in blood. Like, there's blood everywhere. So and and there he was telling me, like, I guess, you know, being, you know, illegal to be here, they they didn't want, like, any cops or, you know, ambulance.

Tyler Wehrung: [35:38] So they were like he said people are, like, hand carrying bodies and, like, throwing them into cars and trying to get them out of there for. He was just like, it was just a freaking mess. That was my first property and I'm still in the landlord mode where I'm actually going there, doing all this stuff myself, down there on my hands and knees scrubbing blood off the walls and floors. I feel like I'm in a CSI movie scene, know. It's just covered in roaches, like just the worst thing you can imagine. But I mean they had like partitioned off every room, there was like four people in cots and hung up sheets living in everywhere. My gosh. Yeah, to this day, that's probably still my craziest story. And I guess the whole point of telling that is just, you know, don't shoot for higher than market rent. Do background checks on all your people and just be happy with market rent.

Mike DeHaan: [36:22] Yeah. And be skeptical too if somebody's gonna come and offer you to pay you like a year of advance.

Dylan Koch: [36:27] Yes. That's a huge red flag.

Mike DeHaan: [36:28] That's actually like a classic like scam red flag thing.

Tyler Wehrung: [36:31] In the beginning, you're so hungry. You're like, oh, yeah. Heck yeah. Like, so

Mike DeHaan: [36:35] You're gonna pay me $15,000? Absolutely.

Dylan Koch: [36:38] Yeah. Right.

Tyler Wehrung: [36:39] I think I netted like 5 and, yeah, put like probably 15 or 20 back into it. So yeah. Let's show you how that works.

Dylan Koch: [36:45] That could be that might be a good cartoon one.

Mike DeHaan: [36:49] Yeah. Maybe it's not not too that too gruesome.

Dylan Koch: [36:51] Yeah. Right. The next question Tyler is, if you go back to the very beginning, what was one thing that you would do differently?

Tyler Wehrung: [36:59] See, guess my initial answer wants to be like, know what you know now about buying holds and not just dive in like that, but at the same time I don't know if I would've stuck with real estate at all if I would've known that. So I think I'll pivot and and go back to, like, the social media piece. I'm, like, naturally a person who wants to be private, not be on social media and talk about anything, but just since I've started this year, I mean, I've just tons of relationships that I've I thought kinda have died, or I'm sure everyone's got those Facebook friends you haven't seen for eight years. But as soon as you start posting, like, you start to rekindle that, and I think HubSpot is the you know, you could throw those people into, a CRM, do, like it's the same, like, re simply. You could do auto reach out reach back out to them in two months and just check-in. And so you can almost build, like, a a system doing that all from just posting something here and there. And for, I guess, you know, maybe folks like me that are I I get nervous, like, with a post, like, oh, what am I gonna type out the perfect right thing? Like, I'm just a story guy. Like, I just try to keep something on my story at all times. You know it's gonna be gone in twenty four hours, so it's not, like, no pressure, but that's changed our business a lot, surprisingly, just social media.

Mike DeHaan: [38:03] I think that as you start to scale, there's so many problems that are can be solved by just, like, having a general presence, everything from hiring to finding buyers to finding investors to finding contractors. You know? People have an aversion to it because they I think they get consumed by, like, the brain candy that's out there or, like, you know, the fact that there's people just, you know, there's the old realtors in their suits that are dancing on, you know, freaking TikTok. You don't have to do that.

Dylan Koch: [38:31] No. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [38:31] Some of

Dylan Koch: [38:32] them I feel like is impostor syndrome though too. Like, they're like

Tyler Wehrung: [38:34] Totally.

Dylan Koch: [38:35] Like, know, when I first started, was like, I was a pharmacist. I didn't like, who are you sharing real estate content? Now I feel comfortable in my shoes and I know enough. But there I think there's a transition period that people need to to do.

Mike DeHaan: [38:45] And and you also need to just learn that people will not like that. Right? And that's okay. And you know, you have people that like you less because you post shit like that. I told the story at the first KeysCon, Dylan, you were there, about when I had, like, a group of close friends. And, you know, my wife and I, they were, like, our adult friends. Like, we're all couples. We hung out. We, like, went on vacation together. We did all stuff. And I started getting into business and doing houses. And I made this post that was a supposed about a deal that we just bought. And, you know, it was, like, kind of one of our first big wins. And I just got this, like, cold blooded response, basically, to, like, the story that I posted from one of the these wives that was just like, oh, must be nice. And I was like, the fuck did that come from? Like, that's not necessary. I didn't know that we were hostile like that. And to this day, I haven't talked to that person. What? You know, like, end of the friendship. Right? And that's, you know, it it sucked at the time, but it is what it is. You know, that's kind of unfortunately part of, I would say, growing is you do outgrow people. As you've learned the outcome of it's definitely worth it. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [39:45] Big picture. So For sure. That's great piece of advice. Cool. Alright. Last question, Tyler. When people find you, follow you, reach out to you.

Tyler Wehrung: [39:52] Yeah. If you wanna see those awkward posts and mostly stories, I'm I'm mostly on Instagram at rei investor tyler. And I do have a YouTube channel. I try to post some pretty, I guess, deeper dive videos into some of my flips, and then I have a lot of, like, finance videos out there, like, how how you wanna different ways to finance deals and stuff like that. So I try to keep it educational, not too phony or corny. And I have I try to steal Alex from all these. I like nothing to sell you. Like, no no courses, anything like that. Truly just trying to share my journey and hope it can help somebody out.

Mike DeHaan: [40:23] Yeah. And you got some great stuff. You got videos calling out, like, Brandon Turner. Videos calling out Grant Cardone. That's perfect. Yeah. And those are all based off of your personal experiences too. That's the thing I appreciate. Not like you're just talking shit, but you've actually been part of deals that these people have done and had negative experiences. So Yeah. If you guys wanna hear all the dirt on Brandon Turner, your real estate golden child, he's actually a nice guy, but, I mean, stuff was weird a couple years ago. Definitely go check out Tyler.

Dylan Koch: [40:49] Tyler, wanna pitch your book at all?

Tyler Wehrung: [40:51] Hey. Well, I know Mike's a big fan of the Amazon author, so I didn't know if he wanted me to chat about that on here or not. But, yeah. No. I mean, it's it's a book about if you wanna learn how to use a HELOC, it's not for everybody, but, yeah, if you have some equity and you want to and a business plan and you wanna just figure out, like, how I how do I use my equity to put it to work, just wrote a book answering all the questions about HELOCs. Again, going back to that point earlier, like, I think I make $3 on every book. It was not a money grab, but it was more of a save my time from a 100 people reaching out to me. I'm like, how does this part of a HELOC work? So I tried to just bundle it up, put it all into a very short read, and it's on Amazon If you wanna check that out.

Dylan Koch: [41:30] It's called unlocking millions. He's not gonna say it. I will.

Tyler Wehrung: [41:33] I appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks, Dylan.

Mike DeHaan: [41:36] There you go. I like I see it on the shelf up behind you too. I like the cover.

Tyler Wehrung: [41:38] Oh, yeah. Sweet. Yeah. Yeah. But cool. Appreciate that, guys.

Mike DeHaan: [41:42] Yeah. Awesome. Well, Tyler, man, thanks so much for coming on the show. I appreciate your time. And, guys, go check out Tyler's stuff, and don't be afraid to reach out to him as well. And if you are in the market, you can reach out to Tyler and Dylan and see which one of them is going to give you a better JV deals and they definitely do compete with each other. So we appreciate you guys listening. Please share this with anyone who's interested in real estate business or just listen to people talk about what their lives look like I guess on a regular basis. And appreciate your time and we'll talk to guys next week. See you.