Why Your Real Estate Business is Always Out of Cash w/ Greg Helbeck

Greg Helbeck: [0:00] If you're doing asset protection for tax purposes, that's not what it's meant to be.

Mike DeHaan: [0:05] The problem with, like, all that entity stuff, though, is there's just so much, like, bad information out there because people want to, I don't know, sell you on how smart they are at business, but 99% of it is not necessary at all. We get this on both sides with the borrowers, also with, like, investors that are coming in. They wanna set up all these super complex things. And there's always, like, these fake, like, tax advantages, which if it's, a single person LLC, there aren't any. You're it's still your income. You're you're still paying the same taxes.

Dan Austin: [0:34] It's just income.

Mike DeHaan: [0:35] So stop believing these PACE Morby dorks. And everyone else is talking about this, like, trust structure and shit. It's not real. It's a stupid fucking thing. I don't know. What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. I'm gonna

Dan Austin: [0:44] keep Greg really wants to talk right now, and Mike's just cutting him off.

Mike DeHaan: [0:48] I'm gonna keep talking over Greg, then you can bring it up. My name is Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin, Dylan Cook, and we got Greg Helbeck joining us here today. If you guys haven't heard Greg before, he's been on with us, what, three times now. Oh my god. Great friend of the show, super knowledgeable investor out of Seattle. Gonna hang and talk shop with us today. But anyways, Greg, to your point about the energy structures. Sorry. Go for it.

Greg Helbeck: [1:08] Oh, yeah. No. If you're doing asset protection for tax purposes, that's not what it's meant to be. Taxes are taxes. Asset protection is for anonymity and maybe a little protection depending

Mike DeHaan: [1:18] on how you

Greg Helbeck: [1:18] structure it.

Dan Austin: [1:19] Completely separate.

Greg Helbeck: [1:20] Yeah. They're totally separate.

Mike DeHaan: [1:21] But if you really talk big game on Instagram, you can tell people the complete opposite and a lot of them will believe you.

Greg Helbeck: [1:27] Yes. Give them fake advice.

Dylan Koch: [1:29] That's right.

Dan Austin: [1:29] When you pay your tax adviser $1,500 a month, they have to do something. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [1:33] Oh, god. And to be fair, that stuff is generally pretty confusing. And the problem is is if you if you Google it, you get taken to, like, LegalZoom and all these, like, companies that well, like, just create it for you. Of course, they will happily swipe your credit card and charge you thousands of dollars to do something that you can do yourself for, like, a $100. Right? They will more than happy to continue with templated operating agreement models or things. You go and hire an attorney, they will happily charge you $5,000 to go and sign up for LegalZoom for you and do the exact same thing, but with an arbitrage where they're making more money. Mhmm. Right? And then if you ask them for advice, they'll be like, well, it depends because that's what lawyers always say.

Dylan Koch: [2:11] Yes. I signed up for the first one, and it told me I needed workers' comp the first time that I signed up for, like, a single owner LLC. And I paid it for, like, two months because

Mike DeHaan: [2:19] I thought that was that's what was supposed to do. Was like,

Dylan Koch: [2:21] oh, this is dumb. And so then I got eventually got rid of it. But you just don't know at the very, very beginning. Don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [2:26] You really don't. Like, the very first, like, holding LLC when I started buying rentals, went through legal ZooMidall kind of stuff. Legal shit.

Dan Austin: [2:32] Hell yeah, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [2:33] I was like, I don't know, dude. That's what you're supposed to do. And they're they're sending me, application for, like, these business licenses and all these sort of things. I'm like, I guess I need a business.

Greg Helbeck: [2:40] Credit cards.

Mike DeHaan: [2:41] Yeah. Yeah. Like everything. You know? And there's all these different docs, and they're like, I'm getting these reminder emails every quarter. It's like, make sure you fill out your meeting minutes. I'm like, for what? I bought a single family home. Like, who am I meeting with? But I was, like, stressed. I was like, do I need to keep track of all this? And then I just didn't. I was like, I'll figure it out later. And then sure enough, it ended up being nothing.

Greg Helbeck: [2:59] Main thing they need is the operating room. That's the only thing that really matters.

Mike DeHaan: [3:02] Exactly. And you can now with ChatGPT, you can just like get one and it's really easy. Whip it out. Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [3:07] You can whip it out just like your wrench. You know?

Mike DeHaan: [3:09] Yeah. Just shook your wrench.

Greg Helbeck: [3:11] But, and then the certificate of good standing. That's it. I mean, if you, any title company is going to say, oh, need a good standing letter, operating agreement, and that's it.

Dylan Koch: [3:19] Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [3:20] You know? This is great. You could be a lender. You already know all this stuff.

Greg Helbeck: [3:23] I've thought about it. I've thought about it because this business can be an absolute circus four out of five business days. So I know you guys did that show. The reason I even asked to come on again because I love the show so much is I heard your last episode talking about when to hold them and when to fold them in terms of this business. I've been doing it. I don't want to sound like an old fuck, but ten years plus every day. And I see a lot of people kind of come and go. They come in for two years and then they're not even in the industry at all, not even lending. They're just out of And I just see this, I've been seeing this for ten years. So it's interesting to see a lot of people come and go and what happens in this business, you know?

Dylan Koch: [3:57] You'd be like a one percenter just in business, not just real estate, like most people fold after three to five years, no matter what.

Mike DeHaan: [4:03] Like in any business.

Greg Helbeck: [4:04] It's because it's fucking hard. I mean, it's really hard. Yeah. It's an absolute dogfight every day no matter what level you're at. It's crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [4:11] That's why, you know, there's that was saying you have to love the process because, I mean, realistically, if you're in business for the results, 95% of people are better off going and climbing the corporate ladder and just trying to get, like, a decent job where they make $200 a year, $50 a year. Because honestly, most business owners make less than that. Sure. You can make more, but to get to that, it kinda sucks and it's a lot of up and down.

Greg Helbeck: [4:31] Yeah. And I think a lot of employees don't, some of them get it, but especially in our, because I know our business super well, you see the gross margins, oh my God, you made $70 on that flip in profit. But then it's like, well, what about the marketing costs? What about the liability? What about the guy suing you afterwards? What about all the G and A expense? There's so much that goes into it and the risk, personal guarantees. They don't tell you about that. For example, the guy who works with me, who's been with me for a long time, he makes a couple $100 a year working with me and he's got limited risk, right? Very limited risk.

Dan Austin: [5:02] Yeah. Downside is very limited.

Greg Helbeck: [5:03] Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [5:04] Yeah. And also that's what you made like today. What they don't see is that you could make nothing over the next three months if shit gets weird.

Greg Helbeck: [5:10] And have all the expenses tied to And have

Mike DeHaan: [5:12] all the expenses still. I think that's a really challenging thing about business is you do start to naturally elevate your lifestyle. Everyone does that a little bit. But you don't have consistent guarantee of that income going into the future. Even if you have, like, a very large successful business, you can still go bust after, like, a bad

Dan Austin: [5:29] year. Totally.

Mike DeHaan: [5:29] Right? People don't realize that. Like, in the different masterminds and stuff that Dan and I have been in, it's been amazing to see the number of people that we knew back in, like, twenty two and twenty three that thought they were the king of the freaking mountain. Yeah. And now they are scraping pennies together trying to figure out how to survive. Yep. You know, even, like, big names, like names that people on here would know are really, really struggling Yeah. In in some capacity. But there's also people that are crushing it and do it every single year. They said you have to constantly be adapting and learning and being flexible in kind of what you're doing and pivoting and doing whatever else while also staying consistent Because in some if you're not consistent at all, you'll basically just be an inch deep in everything and anywhere.

Greg Helbeck: [6:08] I think too, you were just talking about the transactional business over the assignments or flips, the problem I see with a lot of people who I do both, so I mean, you guys do both. It's like, if you just take on all these flips at once, it's a really good decision in the moment, but the execution and the cash that you're going to burn over the next six months is really where you can go down big. And then when you're doing assignments, the thing I've noticed is that depending on how good you are doing that, let's say most people's cost per deal is like $5, let's just say 5 ks right now. If you're only making 15 or 20 on that and you have overhead, you're really going to be having no profit. So then it's like you get into this situation where the solution to that is you want to do a little bit of both in my opinion, but then you also really need to know your numbers. And you got to understand too, if you're spending $20 a month on marketing, that's really got to get you four deals or else you're not going to be profitable. That's only giving you one deal or a deal and a half, two deals. You don't think you're running out of money, but you really are. And that's where I see a lot of people try to ramp up this business to do, let's call it sixty, seventy, a 100 transactions in a year and they get themselves in big trouble. And the guys that I know who make the most money most of the time are guys doing like 30 to 40 deals, maybe 50, and they're well capitalized.

Greg Helbeck: [7:26] They don't have a ton of overhead. They may have some overhead, but they're not these giant businesses that are just transacting all these deals because that's where I see a lot of the bigger guys end up scaling down eventually in this industry.

Dylan Koch: [7:37] Totally. Hey. That's me. I've done between thirty seven and forty five deals the last three years.

Greg Helbeck: [7:42] And that's a great number.

Dan Austin: [7:42] Dill's the richest guy in

Greg Helbeck: [7:43] world. He's the richest guy.

Dylan Koch: [7:44] That's not true. I mean,

Mike DeHaan: [7:46] the the way a lot of people are trending though, Dylan, you will be very soon.

Greg Helbeck: [7:49] Oh, yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [7:49] Yeah. A 100%.

Dylan Koch: [7:51] Well, a good topic to this too. And I put this in the Slack, and this is obviously gonna be personal to me, but it's a good talking point, is, like, you know how people always say, like, I wonder if I would have taken that risk, and they they never know because they never actually took the risk.

Mike DeHaan: [8:04] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [8:04] The opposite of that is, okay. What if I would have stayed at my old w two job, and I would have maxed out all of my HSAs, IRAs, 401ks, and I just did like everything you could have done. Right? And I got very specific. I went back to the year I graduated, promotions, four zero one ks matches. And long story short is even if I would do that for a decade and I was a 100% long in equities, this SPY, I would my net worth would have been about eight x, seven x lower than it is today. Really? Just playing in the safe route, which I don't think everyone can say that. Right? But like, you gotta be able to quantify, is it going to be worth it? Can you extrapolate that into the future?

Dan Austin: [8:43] Yeah. Did you take you just said if I only invested in the S and P 500?

Dylan Koch: [8:47] Correct. Yeah. Okay. This max long equities. Okay. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [8:50] Yeah. So if you just match your IRA, that's how much per year?

Dylan Koch: [8:53] So it ranges. Like, a Roth, you it's, like, 6,500 blended, and then a traditional is, like, close to 20 now. A four zero one k is, like, eighteen five plus your employer match, and HSA is, like, 7,500.

Mike DeHaan: [9:04] Okay. So it's, like, $30 a year.

Dylan Koch: [9:06] Yeah. It was around, like, your point, like, a $300,000 contribution. And the balance, you know, I don't wanna actually say because the people can back in what my net worth is. But Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:15] It's about 45,000,000. Dylan's very rich.

Dylan Koch: [9:17] Dylan's close to 50,000,000.

Mike DeHaan: [9:20] Close to 50,000,000. Yeah. He's just asleep.

Greg Helbeck: [9:21] He's jet shopping.

Dan Austin: [9:22] In that range.

Mike DeHaan: [9:22] He tries shop at jets.

Dan Austin: [9:23] He's 1 to 50,000,000.

Mike DeHaan: [9:26] Yeah. Somewhere in that range. Well, that's- Yeah. Because he's

Dan Austin: [9:28] like a politician.

Greg Helbeck: [9:29] That's an interesting point, Dylan. Because the thing I've realized too with personal wealth in this business is unless you start a lending business or really figure out how to make a good amount of money, kind of like what you, Mike and Dan have done, the rental properties for me are the main turbo driver of my net worth. I do pretty well. Yeah, like that, but I also carry a good amount of cash just because I like to be safe and stuff. But if you really look at the wealth building in the real estate side, if you can get these assets at a straight up discount day one and force the value and stack the equity, you can become a multimillionaire and it's not unreasonable to assume that because you're buying properties at scale faster than the average person who's going to buy one rental a year. You're getting that equity day one because of your skillset. And if you do that for five years, it would be almost hard to not be a multimillionaire because just the numbers are the numbers. Let's say you buy one rental a month, which is not that hard if you're doing marketing, right? And your average, you get enough 40 to $50,000 discount day one. I mean

Mike DeHaan: [10:31] Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [10:31] That times 12. You know, it's like

Dan Austin: [10:33] It adds up quick.

Greg Helbeck: [10:34] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [10:34] Yeah. And you get to cherry pick the best assets and all that stuff.

Dylan Koch: [10:37] Yep. Micah didn't even have a loan for that. They're underwriting right now that it's probably worth $2.50. I bought for $1.50. It needs $5,000 of the renovation.

Greg Helbeck: [10:45] $95,000. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [10:46] Exactly. So and, like, when we do the refi on it, like, I'm just gonna do rate and term. And even if you were out $10, would you trade $10 out of pocket for 90,000 of equity? 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [10:55] Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [10:56] Like, and some people are some people are just like, no. It doesn't it doesn't cash flow. Yeah. Not a full BRRR, so it's not a good deal. I'm like, you're an idiot.

Greg Helbeck: [11:03] Dude, the people who think they could still do the full BRRR consistently every month are full of shit. Yeah. Most of my BRRR deals, I have money out on the street into them and that's okay. I look at the cash on cash off the money I have and the equity.

Mike DeHaan: [11:16] Well, the funny thing is people will fight you on that, but then they'll go and buy stocks. Yeah. Mike, that's money going out that you have no immediate upside on. Your upside only happens if there's actual growth. Exactly. And there's no dividend. Yeah. There's no dividend. Yeah. You can have that real estate equity on day one, like the day that you buy, if you buy correctly. A

Greg Helbeck: [11:35] 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [11:36] I think that that's the balance that exists in the home buying sort of company where there's a lack of enterprise value. Huge lack. The whole concept of enterprise value and your your business value became very, very popular over the past few years with like the rise of Cody Sanchez and Alex Tremozi and all like the business buying trends. Right? And people are trying to roll up these businesses to have these big multiples in their exits. But the funny thing is is with a wholesaling and flipping business that doesn't really exist, I have yet to meet someone that's actually sold a wholesaling or flipping business for, like, any kind of real money. But the difference is you get the opportunity to buy discounted assets, which can fundamentally do the same thing.

Greg Helbeck: [12:13] Which is your enterprise value.

Mike DeHaan: [12:15] Yeah. Which is your enterprise value. Right? It's just on a personal level. It's not actually in your business and you do it in smaller chunks. So instead of having a $5,000,000 little exit or $50,000,000 exit if you were doing a slam dunk, you can build out an equity over a period of time. And you can just do that by, like, adding a $100,000 in equity every time you buy a discounted equity. You know? Because the funny thing is too is people will say, like, doesn't cash flow. You have to take out debt, all these sort of things. Do you really think that all these companies that can trade at mass multiples don't come with some kind of their own headache Yeah. Or their own kind of implied risk? Right? If you guys ever talk to somebody that's actually sold a business for, like, a major multiple, the amount of work and effort that goes into that sale process alone, let alone building the business, just the sale process is insane. It's a lot. And, like, what can happen is, like, it can take, like, a year to sell your business to private equity or whatever. They're gonna go through. They want you to prove the track record. They wanna have you, like, show all these different things to show you weren't just like a one hit wonder. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [13:09] Especially if you've only been in business for a couple years. You can have, like, a bad quarter, and the valuation of your business will drop, like, 50%. And they're like, yeah. We said 50. We're only gonna give you $25 now. Right? Which is still cool.

Dan Austin: [13:20] Take your foot off the gas pedal while you're dealing with all their bullshit requests.

Greg Helbeck: [13:23] While you're running your business.

Dan Austin: [13:24] And then by the end of it and most guys will say by the end of it, say they the initial offer was at 17 x or something by the end of the year at 11 Mhmm. You know? Or or whatever. I mean, those are still great numbers, but it's not usually what you went into thinking.

Mike DeHaan: [13:35] That's like an extreme. If anything, you're probably more like a start at a 7. Now you're selling it at a 3.

Dan Austin: [13:39] Yes. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [13:40] You know? And there'll be a lot of people that are like, goddamn. Why'd I even sell? Mhmm. Because I should have just kept

Greg Helbeck: [13:44] And you gotta pay tax on that.

Mike DeHaan: [13:46] You gotta pay tax. Yeah, too. There's no benefits there.

Greg Helbeck: [13:49] Well, the thing with the rentals too, and who knows how long this will last in the duration with politics and whatnot, but you can ten thirty one your gains until you kick the bucket, right? Then you get a stepped up basis. And like I said, that's a tale as old as time. Who knows if that will last long term? But if you really think about, and I'm in the middle of doing my first ten thirty one now, and it's like, you're going to have to pay tax eventually most likely or whatever. You just basically kick the can down the road. But in the time of your rental journey, if you can take a $100,000 gain, not pay tax, trade that into a better asset for a higher return, and then just keep doing that every five years, You do that for thirty or forty years and you never have to work again. And your kids' kids probably are never working again because there's so much wealth that's been accumulated. That's the value in the rental property game. The biggest objection I always hear is, I don't want to manage tenants. Yeah, managing tenants sucks if you have bad tenants and bad assets. But if you have good assets and good tenants, I've found that it's really not that hard to manage them. It's really a two issue. If you have a shitty tenant with bad credit and unpredictable income, there's always going be a problem. If you have an old building that breaks, that's also good.

Dan Austin: [14:56] Yeah. And if you have a shitty property, you're going get shitty tenants.

Mike DeHaan: [14:59] Yeah. Yeah. Kind of goes hand in hand. Yeah. Exactly. I feel like kind of the unknown issue with that or the unspoken issue with that isn't always just like the management of it because that is fixable. But where it does become a problem is you just have the overhead that goes into maintaining the properties. Yes. Like the actual, like, physical asset. And that's one of the reasons that you have these sort of, like, legacy properties in a lot of places that are just, like, rundown pieces of shit. It's because, sure, the kids inherited it. Right? But what is the actual cash situation for them to be able to maintain this nineteen forties commercial building that has, you know, triple net tenants in it? Even if it cash flows well, do they wanna write a $60,000 check to redo the entire side of this thing? That's up to them to decide. Right? And that's where it gets very, very tricky when it comes to, like, maintaining that wealth over a long period of time in real estate is you have to actually literally physically maintain it. Otherwise, it just goes down.

Dan Austin: [15:55] I think that goes by you not.

Greg Helbeck: [15:56] And you have to save for that every month or else you're to be fucked. Right? And that's where I see a lot of guys make the mistake. I have a buddy of mine who will go unnamed great guy, but he's always like, oh, my rentals make $7 a month. I'm like, no, they don't. They don't make $7 a month. I said, they'll make $2 a month once you fucking get the bill. Right? And you might not get the bill until three years from now. We had a property last year where it was not that profitable, but I got a bill for $14,000 to redo the boiler because it was on some fancy boiler system. My cash flow on that property is gone for the next five years. And that's okay, right? But a lot of landlord We buy a lot of houses from silly landlords in this business because they don't have the money for these CapEx situations. And then they have to sell it at a discount. And they hook their profits, but they really lost their profits when they sold the house 100 ks below what it was worth.

Dylan Koch: [16:44] The amount of people who have 40 doors, but less than $20,000 in an account is mind blowing to me.

Mike DeHaan: [16:50] Oh, dude.

Dylan Koch: [16:50] It's mind blowing to me.

Mike DeHaan: [16:52] I don't know

Greg Helbeck: [16:52] how they can do That's unfucking

Mike DeHaan: [16:54] And that's like what you see with the you know, on, the buyer side. This is something really interesting on the lending side, and our loan officers always get super frustrated by this. They're like, yeah. We had this great borrower that came in that they have great expense, all sorts of stuff. $6.35 credit and, like, $17,000 to their name. Know? But they but they flipped they flipped 50 houses in the last three years. How is that possible? I don't know, but it is a recurring theme.

Dan Austin: [17:19] They either buy bad deals or spend a lot of money.

Greg Helbeck: [17:21] What if you have a borrower come to you Let me ask you this as a lender because you guys are doing a shitload of loans. If there's a borrower that comes to you for a loan, what's the average amount of money these borrowers have in their bank account with all their businesses and their assets and their bullshit? What would it, like a $100, $200? Grand?

Mike DeHaan: [17:36] Less than a $100,000.

Greg Helbeck: [17:38] There's no fucking way, dude.

Dan Austin: [17:39] It's very rare unless they're buying a big asset as a purchase.

Mike DeHaan: [17:43] Yeah. I would say most of the bank's items that we see are between 40 and 60,000, and that's if they have any money. It's also common for us to get ones that have, like, $17.

Dylan Koch: [17:51] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [17:52] And they're like a professional flipping company.

Greg Helbeck: [17:54] What if they have, like, 700 k? You don't see that that much?

Mike DeHaan: [17:56] Rarely. Not very often. Very rarely. But the funny thing is is Daniel have the guy you can always tell on the phone by just how they talk. You have the guy like, this guy will be good, and then he submits a $8.50 credit, 2,500,000 in the bank. You're like, oh, no. Easy. Yeah. Like, those are, like, the best loans, but that is the major minority.

Dylan Koch: [18:13] Do they have money outside of, like, a a checking account? Like, they have a 50,000 in stocks or whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [18:18] They can, but none of these people do, Dylan. What? Ever. Yeah. Never have it.

Greg Helbeck: [18:21] Yeah. Crazy.

Dan Austin: [18:22] A lot of these people that are flipping and or they're just investing, they don't have, like, a portfolio of stocks or any other type of asset. Like, they're just No. I would say for for the vast majority, not all of our people, for the, like, the average 90 percentile person, like, they're just coming in with, like, $28,000. They wanna flip a, you know, $150,000 house, and that's all they got.

Greg Helbeck: [18:41] How could you even do that? I'd be freaking out if that was the case because

Mike DeHaan: [18:44] you have no fucking money.

Greg Helbeck: [18:45] Know. I

Mike DeHaan: [18:46] Like, literally what their game is so, like, they'll have some rentals. You'll have people that are like Dan described that own 10 rental properties. So they'll have $500,000 in equity. Right? So they're they're complete they're paper wealthy in in some capacity, but they're very cash poor. Right? But their game actually becomes that they are trying to flip the next house to pay off how underwater they are on the house that they're just finished flipping.

Dylan Koch: [19:08] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [19:08] Right? And so, like, they're kinda, like, chasing the knife down, but then they always have, like, well, if I sold all seven that I have on the market right now, I'm gonna have $300,000. And they're not wrong. But the problem is is that they're trying to get into the next project to keep their business and everything going while they're waiting for that to happen. So it's just constantly like this cascading trail of trash.

Dan Austin: [19:29] Mhmm. And I don't think they ever get out of it. For the average flipper that that's all they do is flip. I just don't think there's no way out of it.

Greg Helbeck: [19:35] That's fucking crazy to me.

Dylan Koch: [19:37] Dan, to your point, what we do is, like, if all they do is flip, but, you know, if my back was against the wall, you could dial up the phones or the mail or whatever, but,

Dan Austin: [19:46] like Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [19:46] Go rip a $30,000 assignment. Yes. Just from just from work, you know? Sure.

Mike DeHaan: [19:50] Yeah. A lot of people don't wanna do that.

Dan Austin: [19:52] I think it's very important to have the skill set of marketing and sales in any business and and in this business. Because if you're a flipper, you don't market or sell. All you do is flip. And having that that arm in your business is how you can turn the faucet on. I think for all of us, that piece is how we built wealth.

Mike DeHaan: [20:07] Mhmm.

Greg Helbeck: [20:07] Yeah. No. For sure.

Dan Austin: [20:09] We didn't build wealth buying from other wholesalers. We built it by going and finding our own stuff, cherry picking the best deal to keep, flipping the good ones, then wholesaling off the rest.

Mike DeHaan: [20:17] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and to, like, tie that into what Dylan was talking about before where it's like, what's the the other upside that you could have had if you just kinda do, like, the traditional investing? That is where the biggest potential gain comes from is you get that skill set. Right? Because if you're kinda doing the safe route, everyone always thinks of investing as in terms of, like, financial growth. Right? Which is true. But there's also the investing in yourself, which gives you the ability to have that financial growth by putting in work as opposed to just checking a spreadsheet or a website or whatever every day. And that's what gives that compounding effect even more though than your investment decision Yeah. That's crazy. I just still can't believe

Greg Helbeck: [20:55] because I'm thinking if I'm buying a project, I'm so conservative with the numbers. I'm like, I'll decline a deal before I take off more than I can chew. I just, like I said, it's just like how I've always been.

Dan Austin: [21:07] That's why you've been here ten years.

Mike DeHaan: [21:08] Yeah, totally. That's exactly why you have longevity.

Greg Helbeck: [21:11] I don't understand that. I'm like, how could you fucking roll the dice? I'm like, I lost money on a flip last month out here and it was like 4 ks, but I bought that deal and I had like three backup plans on it in case it didn't work out. And it ended up working out and I sold it. I just lost a little bit, but I'm like, that was one loss and I've lost on a few others, but I don't understand. I was looking at a I'll give you an example and I digress. But I was looking at a wholesale deal yesterday from this guy out here. I flipped the house down the street and I bought it for $4.20. I put in about ten to fifteen k. It was just a Cosmo rehab. And I sold it for $5.60. I think it made 50 or $60 net after all the bullshit out in Washington. This wholesaler had a house. He was asking $4.75. It's a $5.50 house because this one is smaller. And I'm like, I like the area. So I emailed them back. I'm like, hey, do you have any room on the price? And blah, blah, blah. He's like, no, I got it for $4.50. At least I'll take it as $4.60. I'm like, Nobody's going to buy this for $4.60 because the fucking value is $5.50 and it needs $25. Nobody's going to make You cannot make It is impossible even if you paid cash.

Dylan Koch: [22:15] Greg, just keep track until he falls out of contract and call the seller yourself. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:20] Yeah. I'm like, well, even if you pay cash for that house,

Greg Helbeck: [22:22] you will make $20. If you paid cash.

Dylan Koch: [22:25] Which at that price point is not a very good return. Like No. Not even sort of. Like, at all.

Mike DeHaan: [22:30] Yeah. It's not worth it. The fuck 20 you can make

Greg Helbeck: [22:32] $20 panhandling down the street.

Dylan Koch: [22:34] You really could. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:36] You could do a hooking down in Aurora Avenue, dude. Like, probably do that in a weekend.

Greg Helbeck: [22:40] Yeah. Get a rub and a tug and then get out of there. You know? But, like, it's it's, like, crazy, dude. I don't get it.

Dylan Koch: [22:46] Did that wholesaler reach out to you because he knew you bought that property down the street, or is this just a mass marketing thing?

Greg Helbeck: [22:52] No. I'm on his email list and he sends out a gazillion deals a week. I normally ignore him, but this one was in Marysville. I'm like, oh, I love Marysville. And I'm like, fuck. I told him, I'm like, dude, if you can get the price down to $4.20 to $4.30, I'll drive out there and walk it and give you an answer on the spot. But I cannot even consider paying 4, even $4.50, what you have in an escrow for. I can't fucking make those numbers.

Mike DeHaan: [23:11] Yeah. Well, you're seeing, like there's two parts there, right? So that's obviously a regular wholesaler issue, but you are still seeing people that are disillusioned about what they think their real estate's worth now.

Greg Helbeck: [23:21] Yeah. Yeah. Oh,

Mike DeHaan: [23:22] yeah. Like, has been one of our big problems is the number of people that have come in that have that have had a certain valuation expectation, then we get the appraisal back or even, like, the BPO back for doing a a short term deal. And it's, like, not even close.

Greg Helbeck: [23:35] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [23:36] Right? And the problem is is they're looking at comps for stuff that was, like, years ago. I own a bunch of properties in this area. Like, I know what it's worth. I was like, yeah. But the last thing you bought was in '23. And so it just becomes like a people cling onto it. Right? Especially, I would say, when when they are the borrowers, like we talked about before, that don't have a ton of money, that are kinda stretched, those are the ones who tend to try for that the most because they're desperate.

Greg Helbeck: [23:59] But even in that situation, like, especially out in Washington and New York well, New York is different, but I don't even really look at sold comps in Washington. I mostly look at meetings right now because the market's so weird and actives. I'll look at sold maybe a month old, maybe two months, but I get these comps sent to me from home. I'm like, Dude, that comp was from 2024, brother. What the fuck are you?

Dan Austin: [24:19] Yeah. Even March '25, you can't know.

Mike DeHaan: [24:23] I wouldn't even look at it.

Greg Helbeck: [24:24] I don't even care. Yeah. And then I look at too, other thing that people don't realize is you look at a sold comp, that's a piece of data, right? You could put that in an appraisal report and go nuts over it. How long did that comp take to sell? And then I'll go back and I'll look and I'll be like, oh, it went listed in January and then it went closed escrow in fucking July. Like, I know. Seven months days on market. What's your holding cost, bro? What's your monthly on that? Fucking people don't realize that. 2,500 a month times seven, that's an interest line item plus the fucking payoff amount, plus the points. I think the fucking numbers in least in Washington and New York are it's so expensive, the soft costs. People just don't realize that shit, and you need to buy these houses

Mike DeHaan: [25:02] fucking

Greg Helbeck: [25:02] deep or else you're not gonna make money.

Dylan Koch: [25:04] Like, to your point, I'll see I'll see my profit on a flip that I've done. And by way, I hate flipping. I'd rather it's a sign, but you have to do some of the flipping. But, like, okay. Lender made 25 k. I also made 25 k.

Mike DeHaan: [25:14] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [25:15] But the lender fucking you know, obviously, you can't say they didn't do anything, but that seems like a much nicer path. Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [25:20] They gave you the money. Yes.

Mike DeHaan: [25:22] They yeah. They gave you the money.

Dan Austin: [25:23] The money guy is definitely in a better position because they're protected too.

Mike DeHaan: [25:27] Yeah. Well, that's because

Greg Helbeck: [25:28] you know, he's protected. And that's like and the lender online made more than me last but on the the one that I well, the second to last one, the one that I lost on, and he made whatever, 14 and a hook. And I lost money, that's fine because normally I'm making 80 to a 100 and he's making fucking 15. So like Right. They balance themselves out.

Dylan Koch: [25:44] Yeah. Right? Like

Mike DeHaan: [25:45] Yeah. But he always makes 15.

Dylan Koch: [25:47] He always makes 15.

Dan Austin: [25:48] He always makes 15.

Dylan Koch: [25:49] Mike's point, though, I think he was trying to get at is like, yes. Okay. There's a financial reward. But developing your skill sets, you can maybe take that to a new business and like, okay, maybe three to five years you broke even, but now you have something where you can make maybe 7 figures a year.

Greg Helbeck: [26:03] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I always do the test like we all know how to do off market marketing. Let's just say mail, for example. We all know how to mail, right? It's pretty simple, but you really got to know. It's a kind of nuanced and simple at the same time. I always kind of fuck around on chat GBT and I'm like, let's say I took my mail knowledge and I just mailed for plumbing leads and I sold those leads to plumbers. My question to me, and I haven't done this, it's like, I spend $10 on mail. What could I get on an ROI from that? Like if I was a plumber, right? I would be curious to see if you send somebody an offer to come to their house to inspect their fucking boiler, how many people would call? Because all we know is real estate, right? At least me.

Dan Austin: [26:40] I think the numbers still work and they're probably more the response rate is probably more favorable for the plumber. For the plumber. I think the piece where why you don't see that is because most plumbers, just like most business owners don't understand the systems to do that. Because all of a sudden, you did that, like, I know a guy, not a plumber that did something similar and he's like, I'll never do it again. Cause like my phone wouldn't stop ringing.

Mike DeHaan: [27:02] Mhmm. And he's he's like, I hate it.

Greg Helbeck: [27:04] Dude, you're making all that money.

Dan Austin: [27:05] Yeah. Exactly. Because they they just don't know it. They don't have an answering service. They don't know how to do it. And so Oh my god. Yeah. They just don't.

Greg Helbeck: [27:11] That's a business opportunity right there.

Dan Austin: [27:12] It is a business opportunity.

Mike DeHaan: [27:13] Well, that's the whole thing for, like, buying a business stuff. You have all these freaking dorks that work for Google that have never run a business before that think that they fancy themselves a a systems person. Right? So they go and they buy up, like Yeah. A roofing company that's across the country from where they live. This is off of a thing that Dylan said earlier.

Dylan Koch: [27:31] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [27:31] Yeah. Yeah. This this they buy a roof company. So, like, across the country, they have no way to how to do it. They're like, I'm gonna install a CRM and run marketing and do all this stuff even though I live in Northern California. This is in Saint Louis. Right? And we're gonna have a kick ass roofing business. And because I don't wanna get an SBA loan, I'm gonna convince this poor blue collar guy to sell me his life work on seller financing. I'm gonna pay him $10,000,000 on, like, a five year term with whatever. And then sure enough, he goes tits up. She doesn't know what the hell he's doing and the business goes shit. Yeah. Right? That's what these people believe. They can actually do this even though they have no idea how to do it in actual actuality.

Dylan Koch: [28:07] If you're the original seller, I don't know why you would have agreed to get a long term payout like

Dan Austin: [28:11] that. Yeah. I would not.

Dylan Koch: [28:12] Because you probably know he's destined for failure. Right? Like

Dan Austin: [28:15] Especially if he doesn't have any background or anything to do with roofing. That's the biggest thing.

Greg Helbeck: [28:20] Well, because then there's there's systems and then there's operation. You could systematize something on GPT and go mental masturbation mode. But then you have to operate the fucking business and understand. Like that's why I think in real estate, you have a big advantage if you're like an active flipper wholesaler and then you go into something else. Because if you know how to operate these crazy sellers and these buyers and all the vendors that need to get paid, and then you take those operation skills and your marketing skills and some decent systems, you could go into another industry in theory and do decent off the bat. I don't think you'd hit it out of the park right away. But I think the value to doing that would be like, if you know your cash conversion cycle could be way quicker in a roofing business and your income's more predictable, the value is there, right? It's not like, Oh, you're going make more money right away.

Mike DeHaan: [29:06] Well, absolutely. That's what private equity companies do. Right? Is they they understand how to set stand up those business systems, but they have people in house that, like, that's what they do. Like, they will have somebody Exactly. And so, like, this is the whole my only personal exposure to is with the acquisition.com stuff, But they, like, have somebody in their office that like, her role is she's the head of customer success. Yep. So her entire thing is in every company, she runs the customer success teams and all those, basically, to work on the actual, like, narrative that the customer goes through when they come in. They have, like, a marketing person that just does like the he doesn't do the marketing for all the company. He runs the marketing teams and basically builds the playbook that they stand up for marketing in every single company that

Dylan Koch: [29:43] Yeah. They

Dan Austin: [29:44] I think along the lines of that is you don't buy a business you don't think you could be successful in. Right? Or you don't have a reasonable track record. So, you know, in Alex Ramosy's case, there's probably businesses they say no to because the team that they've built isn't going to make that business successful. So you just walk away. Just because you're a Google systems guy doesn't mean you should be doing things with roofs. What lets you believe that you're gonna be successful at that? Do you I think you need to have some alignment

Mike DeHaan: [30:08] with that.

Dan Austin: [30:09] Systems don't just matter. Like, that's a big part, but get to scale first.

Mike DeHaan: [30:13] It's because they want to Stanford, and that dude just went to community college.

Dylan Koch: [30:17] There's some elitist stuff to

Greg Helbeck: [30:19] do sure. With a blue collar business or a roofing business, the real thing in there, obviously, you got to get leads and shit, but you got to fucking have a good roofer who can put the fucking roof on. You put the roof on backwards.

Dan Austin: [30:31] You're gonna have good people that know how to do it.

Dylan Koch: [30:33] If you buy the business, your key man doesn't go fucking start his own thing either. I think that's the other point.

Dan Austin: [30:37] Yeah. Brother, the roof's on upside down. Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [30:41] Buddy, it just rained, now I'm making an insurance claim. Like, it's like, what are

Mike DeHaan: [30:44] you doing, fella? Well, that's such a great point though, Greg, because that exists in every business. Right? Is I think people oversimplify what business actually is. And you see this in the wholesale and flipping company as well, where people, they focus so heavily on the leads part. Right? And they don't actually focus on, like, the sales or how do you actually get a seller to closing. Right? Like, how do you actually find a buyer and make sure that it's a truly mutually beneficial deal? If you do have to close on it, what does flipping a house actually look like?

Greg Helbeck: [31:11] Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [31:12] And and I feel like people tend to silo themselves into, like, just like the project management or, like, the deliverability of the product, right, or on the marketing piece. But there's, like, so much that go on in between. And if you don't have that whole package, you're not gonna have any kind of business. Mhmm. Right? I think that's why you see people that try to specialize in these businesses that just do one of those things or the other. Right? You'll see, like, the guy that wants to flip houses. They go, well, I don't really like finding deals anymore. I'm just become a general contractor. You find, like, the wholesaler that can't figure out how to find buyers or sucks at sales Start an agency. Start an agency. They do a cold calling company or a PPC agency or whatever. Right? But the funny thing is when they get into that business, and now they still have the same problem where they don't have a good customer experience, and the people they bring in suck.

Greg Helbeck: [31:55] Yeah. They suck at sales.

Mike DeHaan: [31:57] Right? And they, like, they hate, Yeah. They drop their clients, and their churn's huge and everything else. Like, like, that exists across every facet of business, and people don't understand that.

Dylan Koch: [32:04] You know how many times I've been tempted to like, you see, like, a next door post, like, in a I don't know. Let's say it's an affluent area. Like, oh, I just got an HVAC quote, and they range from 40 to 60 k. And I'm just like, okay. Well, I could I'll have my HVAC guy go do it for 20. Yeah. And I'll save them $20, and I'll make $20. You know? They've like it it's just like I don't know. It's just stuff like that.

Mike DeHaan: [32:26] So the funny thing is though, Dylan, you say that, but this goes back to what we were talking about before when Greg said you make the 70,000 a house so people don't see the cost of marketing, the overhead, everything else. Because on that deal, the $20,000 spread, you have to pay the guy. Right? You have to pay for all the other guys that didn't make any money that day. You have to pay for Kathy who works at the office, who does the billing, answer the phones, do everything else. You probably have your own CRM. Probably have some licensing costs. You have the truck Yep. That's gonna break down next month that you have to account for that you don't know is gonna break down yet. Right? And so that 20 k spread difference realistically is, like, maybe six.

Dan Austin: [32:58] Can I make a observation here? This is why flipping houses so is so hard. It's because we rely on Dylan's HVAC guy who are generally unreliable dudes that don't know how to operate a business. Yeah. And they're willing to do it cheaper than the next guy, and they don't understand that their truck's gonna break or that their wife's gonna leave them or or that their kid's gonna need to, you know, go to the hospital. And so they have no money. And then that it's so hard to manage those guys. And then you have to find a new one every year because they're out of business.

Dylan Koch: [33:25] One contractor told me, he's like, hey. I'll do it, but I need $50 for gas money to get out there. I'm like, never I've never I've never been. No. No. No.

Mike DeHaan: [33:33] No. Dude,

Greg Helbeck: [33:35] I had that happen so many times. Are you kidding me? That's, like, once a week. That's, like, once

Mike DeHaan: [33:39] a One of the first houses that I flipped before I was working with Dan, the guy called me. He needed me to come pick him up from his house and drive him to the house because it's No problem. Hey, dude. So I I went and picked him up. This is funny thing. Because back then, I drove a a black BMW for my my Boeing days. And so I go and pick up my crusty contractor and my black BMW. He, like, for, like, squeezing his tools and shit in the back of this car. Oh my god. Right? Nothing fits in this thing. And I go and I drop him off at this shitty house out in the South Hill, and he, like, works all day. Then I had to go pick him up and drive him home.

Dan Austin: [34:11] Yeah. Not a red flag at all. Adult daycare.

Greg Helbeck: [34:13] Fucking adult daycare, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [34:14] Not a red flag at all, but you know what? He actually did do a pretty good job.

Dan Austin: [34:18] Oh, that's good.

Mike DeHaan: [34:19] But those were the issues that kinda came with that that person.

Dylan Koch: [34:22] What do you have to do if he has to go to Home Depot six times in the same day? There's no my contractors do. They can't fucking figure it out.

Dan Austin: [34:28] Yeah. Seriously. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [34:29] At that point, we kinda had everything. But it that was only one time. He got his truck fixed like over the weekend. It was good.

Greg Helbeck: [34:33] It's funny you guys say that the Home Depot, like, I have a buddy and this guy is very rich. I'm not gonna dox him right now online, but he's very rich, but he's kind of goofy and he's got an original personality. He still buys materials at Home Depot and does the whole runaround. And I'm always like, dude, you're worth like $20,000,000. What the fuck are you doing? Why are you going to Home Depot chasing your Mickey Mouse contractors around? And I've always from day one, I'm not a perfect rehabber at all, but I've always Any contractor I use, we're gonna figure out the material and the labor, and you're gonna buy all the fucking materials when I pay you. And I'm not gonna run to Home Depot once because that's just gonna fuck me up. Like, I just keep accept I gotta order them online and then hope they get fucking delivered. It's like, no, no. You're gonna buy the fucking materials. I'm gonna give you the money upfront for the materials. I've just never been tempted, even locally, to go to Home Depot and run around and get fucking materials, even if the house was my neighbor's house. Because that's defeating the whole point of

Dan Austin: [35:31] This hiring a is very true.

Greg Helbeck: [35:33] Yeah. And it's always just been like, whether it's the neighbor's house And the same with rentals. If I had a rental house and it was my neighbor, I'm still calling the fucking contractor. It doesn't matter where the rental is. I'm going call the contractor and get the expert there to fix it. I don't fucking know how to fix a fucking HVAC. So I've always just treated the business, the rental business, the flipping business, like I'm going to get a decent contractor to help me, whether it's next door or it's across the fucking country in New York. I'm going to start with that. And I've noticed that I've definitely gotten burned by contractors. Everyone's going to get burned. But I've gotten burned less than other people because I've tried to find contractors that are willing to go into my little janky system. And if they can fit into that system, they can probably be successful with me. The guys that I've gotten fucked on are the guys who wouldn't do that. And I really wanted to hire them because nobody else was available and I ended up getting fucked. That's just what I've learned.

Dylan Koch: [36:24] Basically all of my real estate losses have been contractor related. Like if I think about

Mike DeHaan: [36:28] it. Really?

Dylan Koch: [36:28] Yeah. It's pretty much Like the deals that we lost on, it's mostly because I had to redo a lot of the contractor work or they didn't do the work at all in the first place. He did some shit job and he took your money. So it was never the buy side, never the financing side, never the underwriting side. It's mostly the contractors.

Greg Helbeck: [36:43] Yeah. I had a contractor recently over the summer. This was rare, but this was very, I didn't see this coming basically in the business. So I had a handyman who was just a handyman, but he gave me good prices on the round, like our rentals when their shit was breaking. And I asked him one day, I was actually boots on the ground in New York, and I said, Could you do bigger rehabs? And I had this vacancy coming over with an eviction, and it was a fucking absolute shithole. And I said, Could you do like a rehab, just a condo, you know, inside Sheetrock and all that? He's like, Oh yeah,

Dylan Koch: [37:14] yeah, I can do that.

Greg Helbeck: [37:15] Because he's only done like punch list items for me. I go, Okay. And I've known this guy for years. Yeah. And this is the kind of guy I had to give gas money to. And I'm like, what would you charge me labor and materials for this whole? And this was a shell inside, shell hazmat suits, like just a shell. He goes, with everything, 25,000. I go, You're telling me 25,000 for the materials and the labor for this whole fucking thing, condo? He's like, Yeah. I said, Okay, that's a good In my head, I know it's 40, at least. I know it's 40. It's a fucking gun because it's like 600 square feet. And I'm looking at him, we're like looking at each other just chin to chin. And I'm like, you sure you can do this for $25? He's like, yeah, I can get this done in three weeks. I'm like, fucking deal, buddy. That works for me. I say, okay, go to lunch with him. Go to lunch. We have a little sandwich. And I'm going to give you 10,000. You're to buy the materials. And I've known this guy. This is why I was so loose with it. You just gave him $10,000 Gave him fucking 10 bananas and he takes the money, runs away.

Dylan Koch: [38:10] That's about right.

Greg Helbeck: [38:11] Takes the money and then goes and fucking spends it. I, like, forgot about the property. Like, I was so busy. I was like, I'll check-in on him in three weeks when it's done, whatever. I know the guy, and he just ghosted me, not getting back, not sending me pictures. And now I'm back here, and I'm like, fuck. What's going on with that project? Now while this is going on, he's like, I'm not really giving a fuck, but he's texting me saying like, oh, yeah, we'll be done soon. He hasn't sent me any pictures. I'm like, can you send me pictures? He's like, ah, my phone's broken, whatever. So I send my fucking buddy over there and I go, hey, can you go walk this site for me and see what's cooking? There's no lock on the door. It's just a vacant shithole. It's such a shitty complex. So he goes in there, FaceTimes me. He goes, What has Alex done? I said, I don't know. He said, It's almost done. He's like, Buddy, this is a shell. And I

Dylan Koch: [39:00] go, Oh, God. No.

Greg Helbeck: [39:01] So I call him and he goes, we're not even done yet, the way, we're just getting started. I go, Hey man, what the fuck, Alex? You said you were going to There's no materials here. I've known you for years. You just absolutely lied to me. He's like, Oh, I spent the money already. I'm like, Well, what did you spend the money on? You didn't buy materials or else they'd be in the fucking job site. He's like, Oh, I spent it on something personal. I go, Well, dude, what the fuck? What the fuck? So then he ghosts me. He takes off. So now I'm like, fuck. And I get my real contractor, the guy who does like my fix and flips. He's like, oh, Greg, this is $45 at least. And I know that's the number. And now it's really $55. So because I lost the 10.

Dan Austin: [39:39] And you lost 10.

Greg Helbeck: [39:40] Yeah. So so then I just sold the property as is, and I'm buying the neighbor's place now. But you get burned even if you're experienced is the point. Even if you're experienced, you're gonna get burned once in a while, and that's part of the game.

Mike DeHaan: [39:50] Yeah. I don't think we've had any bad losses necessarily because of contractors. Typically it's because we buy stuff that we shouldn't have.

Greg Helbeck: [39:56] Yeah. Usually, it's the yeah. It's either the buy side or the sell side gets soft.

Mike DeHaan: [40:00] Yeah. My first loss was because I ignored every warning sign from people saying I shouldn't buy the property because I'd already flipped three houses. So I thought I was the smartest guy in the fucking room.

Dylan Koch: [40:09] There is something to be said about, like, you know, everything we talked about, people who don't know what they're doing, and there there is something to be said for if you're gonna pursue any business, especially this business, to have some kind of unwavering belief in yourself that you're gonna figure it Yeah. Yeah. That's true. You probably should.

Mike DeHaan: [40:25] Like, otherwise, you'll never do anything in business because, like, there is an implied level of risk, whether it's, like, personal, financial, you know, social, whatever. There's a social risk to the business. Actually talked about this with someone recently. And they said the hardest thing about their business is reaching out to, like, people around them to ask for their business. And they're like, I always feel like I'm doing, like, a bait and switch because I'll call them like, oh, you know, hey. What's going on? Whatever. We make small talk. And I go, well, anyway, you know, this is what I do. And then now I I'm like, if it's, awkward. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. You wanna know the answer to that? Don't make small talk. Just send them a text and say like, hey, man. Hope you're doing good. I just want you to know that I started a new business. This is what I'm doing. If that's something that you would be interested in, like, I'd love to talk to you. Otherwise, no worries. Hope you're doing well. And do it that way. Now it's not awkward because you're not trying to, like it doesn't feel as sleazy.

Dan Austin: [41:10] Bait and switch them.

Dylan Koch: [41:11] Pretend that you're bringing up for the original reason. Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [41:13] Yeah. Just just be straight up with them.

Mike DeHaan: [41:15] You just cut to the quick. You know? Because, like, if you go the other way, they're waiting for you to pitch them on fucking Amway or whatever the new MLM is that you got involved in.

Greg Helbeck: [41:23] I've noticed with private money, that's actually been a thing I've heard people kind of flop on. They're like, Hey, I got a deal. Do you want to fund it? You could say that and maybe get rejected, maybe get accepted. But I've always done, not that I'm some expert at it, I've been like, Hey, I got a property. This is back when I was getting started. But like, Hey, I got a property. I'm looking for a lender on it. Do you know anybody who'd want a loan on this thing? And then I would just kind of like indirectly ask them. And then they'd be like, Woah, what do you mean? I'm like, Well, I got this property. I'm going to probably put $30 into it and it's worth whatever, dollars 400. And I'm looking for $230. You know anyone who'd want a loan on that? I'll give them 12%. Totally. And then it's not really that awkward because you're not really asking them, but you're kind of asking them at the same time.

Dan Austin: [42:04] You're presenting the idea to them.

Mike DeHaan: [42:06] It's a good sales tactic.

Dan Austin: [42:07] It is a good sales tactic.

Mike DeHaan: [42:08] Yeah. I'm sure there's, like, a there's a name for that. I'm not good at the, terminology for stuff. But well, right on, guys. Well, Greg, episode flew by with you today. Forty five minutes.

Dan Austin: [42:16] It did.

Greg Helbeck: [42:17] Dude, I love these once a month. It's just like, you know, get on here, and it's like a it's like a p 90 x real estate trade.

Dylan Koch: [42:22] It is, dude. I'm over here fucking sweating.

Dan Austin: [42:24] Sweat? Greg's

Dylan Koch: [42:25] just throwing

Dan Austin: [42:25] it at us, talking about bananas.

Mike DeHaan: [42:27] Yeah.

Greg Helbeck: [42:29] Like, you know, you guys are this is a good show. Like, I don't listen to a lot of real estate podcasts anymore, like, you know, selectively. I I not just saying this because I'm on the show, but I do listen to your guys' podcasts quite often, and I think Thank you. I appreciate that.

Mike DeHaan: [42:41] We have we have a loyal following. That is for sure. But then we have a specific vibe.

Greg Helbeck: [42:47] Well, I'm glad you didn't turn into bigger pockets where it just turned into an absolute dumpster fire, and it's just watered down garbage, quite frankly.

Dan Austin: [42:54] Once you go woke, you go broke.

Dylan Koch: [42:55] And a lot of advertisements.

Mike DeHaan: [42:57] And a lot of advertisements. Damn right. Bought by private equity. But, hey. At least Josh Dorking made his money. Good for him.

Dan Austin: [43:01] He did. Good for him. Yeah. That was his goal.

Mike DeHaan: [43:03] Right on. Well, Greg, really quick, just because you're on here, anything you wanna plug? Instagram, your show?

Greg Helbeck: [43:08] Yeah. The Real Estate Investing Fast Track on Spotify, Apple, and then Greg Helbeck Real Estate Investing or REI, Greg Helbeck, whatever. Just Google my name on YouTube by name and I got a ton of videos we put out weekly. So if you wanna follow me, that's the best way

Mike DeHaan: [43:22] to do I can tell by your refined pitch that content is definitely your focus. So Yeah. You'll watch it, though. Right on. Alright, Greg. Thanks for joining us, buddy.

Dan Austin: [43:30] Thanks, Greg.

Mike DeHaan: [43:31] Right on, everybody. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you guys next week.

Dylan Koch: [43:33] See y'all. See you. Alright.

Mike DeHaan: [43:34] This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose to follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.