Mike Lost His House In The Spokane Fire, What Happens Next

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. I'm Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin and Dylan Cook. Hello. If you guys follow me on social media or I guess if you watch the news I do not. Yeah. You probably shouldn't. But you've probably heard about the fires up in Spokane where Dan and I are based out of. And, if you follow me on social media, you know that I lost my house on Saturday in that fire. And, you know, we still have a structure, but the house my house did catch fire as part of the incident, and the smoke damage has essentially destroyed all of our belongings. And so the show's gonna be sounding a little bit different audio and video quality wise for like a a little while while I kind of figure out my next steps. I'm currently in my, my parents' house in Montana. We're gonna take some refuge here for a little bit kinda while we just figure out what comes next for us and the insurance companies help us figure out housing situation in Spokane and then we'll decide what everything else looks like. But so as of time recording this on Thursday, the sixth, the fire happened on the first.

Dan Austin: [1:01] So that was about five days ago. It's still burning.

Mike DeHaan: [1:03] It's still burning. Yeah. And so, like, by the time this episode comes out with what they're projecting for wind and heat and humidity and stuff, there's a decent chance that the fire gets significantly worse before this episode comes out. But as of this morning, looked at it, it was just south of 900 homes have been lost. Several thousand people displaced from those homes. The total evacuation that took place was over 60,000 people. And so it's a very significant event. And I figured for this episode, could kind of talk about, Hey, what I've gone through, not just like, it's like a woe is me sort of episode, but also just like some of the things that I've learned about like the process. There's a lot of like, I think mental strength and things that I think apply to a lot of people that we can talk about. And then, like, sort of what going through this incident was like because, you know, as you could expect, we did not I did not wake up on Saturday expecting this to happen. Nobody did. But yeah. So I figured we would kinda go through there. I guess, off, with how how this fire started, as of right now, they are saying that it actually was an arson, and they've arrested somebody. Allegedly.

Mike DeHaan: [2:12] Allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah. They've arrested somebody and, you know, our, who knows what that whole process looks like. But how the fire started is it was a good way out of town. It was an extremely windy Saturday. And between when the fire started and when it reached 3,000 acres, I think it was like just under three hours. It was incredibly fast. And from like, how would that look for us was, you know, Saturday I woke up, went and played pickleball, me and my wife and son, we went to brunch with some friends. We got like notification of the fire while we were at brunch, went to their house. We were kind of like watching things unfold and it was about 01:45. We saw things kind of like moving towards town a little bit. And so we decided to make our way home, which is about twenty five minutes away. I called our neighbor to sort of see what they were seeing. They had any concerns yet. And they were had talked to a fire marshal that was up in our neighborhood and there wasn't anything that was too concerning, basically. So they kind of get ready to go. They're not, they're not too worried yet. About twenty minutes after that, we're right at the base of my hill. They had already declared a level three evacuation, which basically means go now for our neighborhood.

Mike DeHaan: [3:26] And we were just trying to get up there to save our pets. My neighbor called us frantic, basically saying that the field behind our house was on fire and he broke into our house to save our dog. Wasn't able to save our cat who who died in the smoke, unfortunately. And he fled. And then at that point, we basically did a big U-turn, tried to get over to the far side of the hill to one of the other exits out of the neighborhood and just made our way evacuating out of the area. And then for the next twenty four hours, we had no idea what was going on, how big the damage was. We could basically see on the, the watch through the app that we have kind of the progression of the fire. And we knew that it had reached our street in our neighborhood, but we didn't know if some homes were up there. We'd seen videos that like down the street from us, homes were down to the foundation, 100% gone. And the we'd seen like little glimpse of like our neighbor's house was still standing and different things.

Dylan Koch: [4:18] Can I ask a dumb maybe a dumb question during this?

Mike DeHaan: [4:20] Mhmm.

Dylan Koch: [4:20] When these kind of fires happen out of this, do firefighters even try to tame them when they're in this part of like, when they're obviously going up in residential places? Or is this like too big? Like, we gotta wait for it to like settle down?

Mike DeHaan: [4:32] So firefighters were actively fighting as it was progressing. And basically what they do is they try to get ahead of the fire and save the homes that are next in line.

Dan Austin: [4:40] Yeah. They usually do like seven forty seven size airplanes, actual seven forty sevens with, like, fire retardant in it. So there's like pink houses right now. Yeah. Because they've dumped that on there.

Dylan Koch: [4:49] Oh, okay. So they're air, they're air fighting. Okay.

Dan Austin: [4:52] Understand. Yeah. Then they have like the airplanes with water, helicopters with water, which seemingly when the fire's as big as they are, it feels like it's just like you're spitting at it, but it does do help. It does help.

Mike DeHaan: [5:02] And essentially what they're trying to do is create lines that it's harder for the fire to jump across.

Dan Austin: [5:06] Bulldoze lines, fire water lines, all that stuff.

Dylan Koch: [5:09] Got it.

Mike DeHaan: [5:09] Yeah. And the thing that was so challenging with this is the winds were significant and it was so dry that like every like ash that was going was like landing somewhere, was catching plants on fire, was catching houses on fire, you know, people's fences, those kinds of things. And so in this situation, basically it had jumped over the river to get into town. It had completely decimated these neighborhoods that are down the hill from us. Blown up the hill over the course of less than ten minutes. Ripped through all these houses and then it was burning all the houses on the edge of the hill. And then you asked before the show Dylan how like houses next to ours were untouched. Basically, as the ashes were blowing across, wherever was landing stuff was lighting on fire. And our house is kind of weird with what happened. So our structure stayed standing. We had a note that was left on our door from the firefighter that basically said that they saw the flames and the smoke in the house. They kicked in the door and they they saved the house. But it's really odd. I posted on my Facebook, but there's basically one area right by the gas meter. I don't know if, like, the gas meter blew up or what, where that's how the fire got into the house.

Mike DeHaan: [6:20] And I do believe there was some kind of explosion because the firefighter said that because the door was closed, it saved the house. It goes in my wife's office. And my wife hasn't closed that door in like five years. So it wasn't like it was closed. Something closed it. Like, I imagine it must have been some sort of blast where it was like the heat pushed it or what. Air coming

Dan Austin: [6:38] in or something.

Mike DeHaan: [6:39] Air coming in. Yeah. Who knows? From the fire? Mhmm. So the fire damage is almost exclusively inside the house. Yeah. Right? And a lot of the exterior stuff looks, by all kinds of purposes, fine.

Dan Austin: [6:49] I think for people that aren't from the Western US, I think the hard thing to understand is how dry it is here. Like, granted it's green, but like everything is a Tinder box. So like one little ash, you flick a cigarette out, Like, that will light an entire forest fire because it's just there's nothing to stop it. There's no, like, moist and there's no humidity in the air like you see in other parts of the country.

Mike DeHaan: [7:11] Yeah. So my house lit that way. Like, how it came from what like, or I was actually thinking about this dang. She pointed out that the ground wire was right there in that hole. So I was thinking as well, if that was in the ground and say like the mulch or something that my wife had in the garden right there was on fire. It's possible that that basically turned into a superconductor for heat. Right? Yeah. And like lit the wall on fire.

Dan Austin: [7:33] And just started heating inside your wall. I mean, so many things you don't know. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [7:36] And if that was the case, it would have exploded as we had our, modem that was right behind that on the wall. Oh. Right? And so the battery in there would have gone. But, like, as you go through the neighborhood, it's crazy because on the street over, there's literally, like, houses that are 100% surrounded by perfectly good houses that is a pile of ash. Gone. There's nothing.

Dylan Koch: [7:57] Yeah. Well, that's so odd to me. I'm like, I'm picturing that in my head and I'm just like

Mike DeHaan: [8:01] Yeah. But then you go to the end of the street and literally every house is gone. There's

Dylan Koch: [8:04] nothing. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [8:05] Yeah. Like where Corey who you know Corey, like his house is right on the other side of Mike's like street over there. It's gone. That whole area is gone. One of our,

Mike DeHaan: [8:12] like, he's listeners and scale members, Corey, he lost his house down the street from me. But then the other way too, Dylan, if you go down the hill through these neighborhoods that are completely destroyed, there will be like one house that's still there for some reason. You know, it doesn't make any sense. And then like, as you're driving up and down the streets, there's like damage to like the side of the houses or like the fence will have burned down or like the shed, but like not necessarily the house. There's like one tree that's burned in front of the house. And like, that's it. Like, it doesn't make any sense.

Dylan Koch: [8:42] You don't think of a fire as being spotty, right? Like this is kind of what happened.

Dan Austin: [8:46] It is weird how that is, you know?

Mike DeHaan: [8:48] No, but I think the reality, that is how they're, they commonly go. And especially when they're spreading this way. But I mean, like the big lessons I learned from it, honestly, I would say like the biggest thing that I'm so grateful for is that we had a local community with our neighbors and stuff that we're able to act and especially, save our dog and try to save our pets because we all know people that don't know their neighbors. At my old house, I didn't know any of my neighbors. Right? Like, if something had happened there, I would have been screwed. And now even the fact that our house had been burned, like we are able to rely on neighbors to sort of like provide assistance. That sort of stuff comes together and different things.

Dan Austin: [9:24] Yeah. Knowing your neighbors is so freaking important. I was in the like the exact same boat as Mike because I was not home when the fire came, like in the, like I was at the lake. And, my neighbors fortunately, they own a doggy daycare as well. And so they were home and I was able to I actually had a guy working at my house, like just doing yard work. And I was like, can you go in my house and get my dog and give it to my neighbors? And so they could evacuate the dogs. There's no way. I was just like, my I couldn't get back to my house. So like knowing your neighbors is huge. Just from that standpoint, help saving your pets. You know what I mean? And then also just kind of figuring out what you need to do. Because my wife has been like chatting throughout this whole thing with like we have like a neighborhood, like, I live in a cul de sac, like chat group.

Dylan Koch: [10:04] You're on Nextdoor.

Dan Austin: [10:05] Yeah, right. Yeah. No, we're not that advanced dude. Text message groups, but you can communicate and what's going on as things evolve because information is so hard to come by, like almost impossible, like

Mike DeHaan: [10:16] real information. And there's so many rumors and things that go around and people just latch onto stuff. Especially as things are unfolding, you know, everyone is certain that they have the answer, but no one really knows.

Dan Austin: [10:28] In those like critical times you realize how stupid people are that you may be would have respected because they're like taking information and like using that as like fact. And it's like, stop, like just don't talk and communicate. Because like Facebook, I don't know about you, Mike, but that was kind of the only way to get actual updated information. And you had to be reasonably smart to filter 90% of what wasn't fact.

Mike DeHaan: [10:50] Totally dude. You had to like look at who was saying stuff and make a decision on if that person actually knows what they're talking about purely based off their profile picture.

Dylan Koch: [10:57] Has credibility.

Dan Austin: [10:57] Check out their profile really quick. Like, are they crazy? You know what I mean? But yeah, cause like the government, I mean, in their defense, like the firefighters stuff are busy fighting the fire. Like you're not going to get live updates on like the fire line, but like people that are there can tell you where it's at. Like, yeah, just, you know, crossed this road. I just did this as they're evacuating or things like that. And that information is really important. But again, as things go on, it gets kind of wild, the information that comes out.

Mike DeHaan: [11:21] Yeah. And with these things, you know, like I would say the best of people and the worst of people all came out once it was truly crisis mode. So like, as we were going back up the hill, traffic was crazy. Obviously everyone's trying to get off. And when I told my my neighbor, he got our dog. He's trying he's still trying to get our our cat. I told him to just leave her. So I don't want him to be in danger. And so we basically diverted over to, the furthest route off of our hill to just like, I just wanted to create space. And so we were down going down this back road and a long line of cars and these fucking pricks dude. And these like big ass trucks, you know the person. This is the person that will like throw you under the bus as soon as it's in their best interest too. Right? And they're like ripping down like the wrong lane going so fast. And there's not flames right there. This is not an immediate crisis. Right? And I'm like, you dumbasses, if you get into a car accident and you create a barrier or they were like blocking fire trucks that were trying to come up because they were so desperate to get ahead of the traffic, which is perfectly reasonable. It took us forty minutes to get off the prairie. There was no reason for them to be

Dan Austin: [12:27] doing that. That's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah. Some people took like three hours, right?

Mike DeHaan: [12:31] I know. Some people were crazy that were way back. And so these people were like, so out of control, but then they're like, I don't know, 10 cars behind us. There's like Subaru Forester basically just pulled into the left lane. And so for context, this is a very narrow two lane road with like a cliff on one side and a cliff on the other. Like there's nowhere to go. And, but they basically pulled over in the left lane and just like parked there and essentially just like went with traffic, like in their spots so people couldn't do that anymore.

Dylan Koch: [12:55] I love that. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [12:56] It was awesome. I have no idea who this person was.

Dan Austin: [12:58] Yeah. I've heard people doing that.

Mike DeHaan: [13:00] They're like unsung hero in it. Totally dude. You know, I, just like, you know, even as, as stuff started to unfold, sort seeing like the community come together has been really nice, but also on top of that, you also have people that are doing bad shit that are trying to, like, take advantage of the situation. All of a sudden, all the rentals that were, like, private landlords are, three times market rent. Right? Listed on Zillow, just doing, like, shady shit. He's like, come on, guys. What are you doing? I wonder, do we

Dan Austin: [13:28] have any friends with Airbnb's? Wink wink. I know he knows that of, like, jacking up prices.

Mike DeHaan: [13:33] Probably, dude.

Dan Austin: [13:34] Yeah. We have a mutual friend that's been trying to get ahold of me. I'm like, bro, I am like dealing with an evacuation. Like you should know that because you're from Spokane. I know you're not here right now, but leave me the hell alone and quit trying to ask me to pay your invoice.

Mike DeHaan: [13:46] Really? Oh my god.

Dan Austin: [13:48] You know who I'm talking about. Like like chill out dude. Yeah. Sorry. Seriously. Yeah. You're right though. People, yeah, there are some people take advantage of the situation. That's in every crisis mode. Right? That's why they also say, so like a totally separate, but same conversation, like that's where like a lot of kidnapping and like child sex trafficking happens is when there's a crisis and there's an evacuation. Like, people go missing all the time. It's not as bad in The US because people try to have wet methods of finding them. But in other countries and other areas, that's where it happens. Because there's mass chaos, you lose control, your kids playing in the neighborhood, and they're gone.

Mike DeHaan: [14:22] I know. And I heard stories about that.

Dylan Koch: [14:24] You put your tinfoil hat on and say, you know, the government's favorite thing is don't let a good crisis go to waste. Yes. So how how can they use this to, you know, do some other kind of regulation or law or something that

Dan Austin: [14:36] Right.

Dylan Koch: [14:37] Is in the guise of of civilian safety, but gives them more control. I

Dan Austin: [14:41] told my wife that we're gonna create a gigantic, awesome fire task force that will not prevent the next fire. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like yeah.

Dylan Koch: [14:49] Yeah. But TSA all over again.

Mike DeHaan: [14:51] Yeah. I will say because it is such a large scale incident, so far, like the working with different services and insurance and stuff has been relatively straightforward, especially because it's still active. So they were really quick to like give us money for like immediate needs. Yeah. I already have like, you know, the insurance adjuster, my private adjuster, public adjuster all lined up, you know, mitigation companies are ready to go. Let's talk about that

Dan Austin: [15:16] because I've, I would like to hear, and I think people just honestly, from an insurance standpoint, this would be super beneficial. It's like, I have a personal story from somebody that I'll share after you. But like with you, like what's the best, what what's your advice and what have you experienced with like doing that?

Dylan Koch: [15:31] Because you honestly I wanna preface this question too.

Mike DeHaan: [15:34] Do you

Dylan Koch: [15:34] guys know if there is a like a one carrier is like the bulk of your geographic population? Or do you think it's pretty spread out of who the carriers are?

Dan Austin: [15:43] I'd say it's pretty spread out,

Mike DeHaan: [15:44] I think. I would say it's pretty spread out.

Dylan Koch: [15:46] Okay. My I go there because if it's 80%, one carrier that carrier is probably, like, flipping out and might not be able to pay everybody.

Dan Austin: [15:52] I have heard State Farm from a lot of people. That is a more common one here, but I don't know that that would be like It's because it's cheap. Yeah. I don't know if it's like 50% though.

Dylan Koch: [16:01] Sure. Yeah. And you're not gonna have that made up. But go ahead.

Mike DeHaan: [16:04] No. I've been talking to a lot of my neighbors and almost everyone I talk to has different stuff. So it is generally pretty spread. But yeah, to your point, if it was all the same, that would be a problem.

Dan Austin: [16:12] I want to add one thing too. Like this fire is, I'm not saying it's unique, but it's interesting, honestly affected more middle class and affluent area. So there isn't a lot of low income or people, and it's not common for people to not have insurance here. Like where there's some states where people don't have insurance or whatever, it's pretty common to have insurance here. Very common to have fire hazard, but it burned the way it burned through is it kind of burned right up through like middle class HOA development homes, and then up into the more affluent areas, which is kind of interesting. So the insurance might be people might be more well insured too.

Mike DeHaan: [16:50] But yeah, so our full situation with it, as soon as so fire happened on Saturday, went up on Sunday, boarded it up, assessed the damage. One thing I'll say too is where we left out is our our garage was completely unaffected. So my wife's car was still fine, which was awesome. And then we had a like, we've been, you know, delaying on our chores like normal people do. And we had a dryer that was way overdue that was full of clean laundry that was completely untouched. So we're able to take, like, a shit ton of gloves, which is really nice.

Dan Austin: [17:21] Didn't even smell like smoke.

Mike DeHaan: [17:23] No. It didn't smell like anything. So it was sweet.

Dylan Koch: [17:25] Felt like fabric softener. Yeah. Pretty much.

Mike DeHaan: [17:28] So we kinda had an idea of the damage. So that was on Sunday. Sunday afternoon, I called our insurance company, made a claim. They were obviously already aware of what was going on. And so got a claim number, all sort of stuff. The intake person, they assigned me to a, adjuster. And he said that, you don't need to do anything. You know, she'll call you in like the next couple of days. I'm proactive. I immediately texted her, left her voicemail, introduced myself. I said, here's my claim number. Here's my address. Looking forward to working with you. 07:30 on Monday morning, she calls me. And she's like, hey. She's like, I'm not even in the office yet. I saw your outreach. She's like, It's your lucky day. You're the first person I'm working on today. Right? And so I imagine other people went through that same process with Cincinnati Insurance and I was probably the only one that reached out to her, guess. Yeah. Everyone else is telling like, okay, well, I guess I'm gonna wait to

Dan Austin: [18:18] hear. Which I think is important to think.

Mike DeHaan: [18:19] Right? Totally.

Dan Austin: [18:20] Yeah. Yeah. Be on top of your shit.

Mike DeHaan: [18:22] Yep. And then all day on Monday, I was getting her docs back very quickly, getting everything moving forward. We got reassigned to a like calamity adjuster. And then, I was proactive as well in sort of trying to figure out how the process works. And so I'm working with what's called a public adjuster, which if you guys aren't familiar to this process, which I wasn't entirely familiar with it until going through this myself. But you get an adjuster from the insurance company. They work for the insurance company. It's obviously a conflict of interest because this person's job is to give you the least amount of money because the insurance company doesn't wanna give you money. Right? So what you can do is you can hire what's called a public adjuster, which is the exact same license position, but they work independently and they basically represent you. Right? And so how they get paid is basically a percentage of the money that they can cover, recover for you. And so their incentive is to get you as much money as humanly possible, you know, but they have the same training. They know all the tricks of working with the insurance company. And you can do the same thing as well on rentals and investment properties.

Mike DeHaan: [19:20] Right? You know, it doesn't have to just be for like your primary home. And so we have a GoBundance guy I'm working with that I've known personally. Super nice guy. He has a great reputation. He's worked with other guys. And I say that because there's also a lot of it's like every other industry, there's a lot of really shitty public adjusters who happily come in and take advantage of

Dylan Koch: [19:36] you. Right? Yeah.

Dan Austin: [19:38] So.

Dylan Koch: [19:38] The GoPro is a public adjuster

Mike DeHaan: [19:40] or he he has a adjuster?

Dan Austin: [19:42] Yeah. He is.

Dylan Koch: [19:42] Okay. Got it.

Mike DeHaan: [19:43] Yep. And he has a company. Like, he has a team. It's like a real thing.

Dan Austin: [19:46] Got it. The key is is they get a percentage of of what they get you

Mike DeHaan: [19:50] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [19:50] Which means they're incentivized to do that, but means they can also take advantage of you. Totally. Right. So that's where I think what Mike is saying is making sure that they have a good reputation and they're a good person and all that.

Mike DeHaan: [20:01] Right. They can charge you whatever they want. Industry standard is typically about 10%. Right? You can negotiate that down a little bit. If someone comes in and says they're going to take 25%, which is common for some of these criminal enterprises to do, don't listen to them. 10% is pretty normal. So I like the difference in what they can get you though, is like on small claims, say you have like a kitchen fire, it can be 600 to 800% more than the insurance company usually offers you. Right. Could because my case is so large and my entire home is going to have to be remodeled,

Dan Austin: [20:33] down to

Mike DeHaan: [20:33] the studs. He's anticipating probably 200 to 300% more. But you know, if he can get me $400,000 instead of $200,000 I'll happily pay him his $40. So I come out $160,000 ahead. Totally. Right? Yep. And so basically he comes through that and then how the process will work is when the insurance adjuster comes out to the house, he will also be there. If you're working with one of these, it could be a team member as well. I'm working with him personally. He will be there and then basically, they will independently each make a set like an estimate to remodel the house, the insurance adjuster and the public adjuster well. And then basically, they build their cases against each other. And so there's like little tricks and stuff that you can do. And so one of the things that David, who I'm working with told me is that if if there is water damage to the house that instantly gets elevated to a level three sort of like renovation, which means down to the studs because they deem that worse than smoke. And so he's like, what you can do is the next time you're up at the house, he's like, go and, look up at, the higher parts of your ceiling, like where a lot of the smoke accumulated because what happens when they spray the fire, it turns into vapor, it goes up and it accumulates at the ceiling and it creates water spots.

Mike DeHaan: [21:45] And so sure enough, when I was up there again on Monday, throughout the entire house is all these water spots.

Dylan Koch: [21:50] And it

Mike DeHaan: [21:51] was like, perfect. That'll all be like water damage. You'll be able to just like justify every single room that that's in to be redone. And so there's like little stuff like that that they know. And then same with like your personal belongings and everything, is they know how to structure your requests for replacement of your personal items based off of like your income, what kind of house you have, all those courses. They can make an argument of like, you know, yes, they lost all of their clothing. If you look at this person's house and income, they probably weren't getting $8 shirts from Walmart. Right. So they will

Dan Austin: [22:20] get you like more per item. Mike's wearing Viore dog. Viore and Lulus.

Mike DeHaan: [22:25] Yeah. Otherwise, when you're working with an insurance company, you say like, you know, oh, I lost a toaster. Let's say that you have like a fancy toaster, whatever that had different sizes. And then like, All you say is so is they're going to

Dan Austin: [22:34] get you the $4

Mike DeHaan: [22:34] one from Walmart. Right? They can give you as little money as possible for the toaster. Sure. Yeah. So basically going through that has been relatively quick.

Dylan Koch: [22:41] Do you have any personal belongings? And there's like for example, my wife's engagement ring is on our personal policy. Like, do you have like stuff like that or cash or anything like that?

Mike DeHaan: [22:49] Yeah. I mean, we had cash in there. I was able to recover that. My wife had a ton of money that she'd made at her art markets that are completely gone because that was in

Dan Austin: [22:57] the room.

Dylan Koch: [22:58] Oh no.

Mike DeHaan: [22:59] All of her, like all of her merchandise and stuff as well. Thousands and thousands of dollars of merchandise that she sells these things all burned up.

Dan Austin: [23:06] So, so you didn't have that on your policy though. Cause like Dylan was asking, is it part of your policy to have your wife's wedding ring or

Mike DeHaan: [23:12] I don't know yet. I would assume so. But a lot of it will be like, much of it actually needs to be replaced versus can be, you know, repaired, whatever. Cause what, what you do is basically we'll work with a mitigation company as well. And they will not only mitigate the house, but they will help mitigate all of like our furniture that can be salvaged. Mhmm. You know? And so like a lot of our wood furniture and stuff is fine. Everything that's upholstery is gonna need to go. But things like plates and dishes and, you know, appliances and those sort of things, they can probably be cleaned, but they need to be done a certain way. So then you're not living in your house with toxins from all the smoke and everything.

Dan Austin: [23:45] Yeah. Well, and like for context, you go into Mike's house, like there's not an inch in there that's not touched with something that's toxic.

Dylan Koch: [23:51] It's crazy.

Dan Austin: [23:52] Like between smoke and the burning of materials and like it's, it's bad.

Mike DeHaan: [23:57] And some of the stuff that like actually did come out okay, is kind of interesting. So when, when Tyler and I were up there, Dan, we found like some more items, but it was stuff that you was like, wouldn't necessarily think about. And so like, you know, stuff in the garage, obviously fine. But like we had like that closet, like we had a closet that was directly outside where the fire was. The stuff that's in the bottom area of that closet, totally fine. We had like other backpacks and different things, like some backpack and backpacks. And that obviously didn't get touched because the smoke just went immediately to the highest point. And so this area that's like right outside the door, that's real low, just never got affected by anything. Right? And then there's actually stuff like in our closet. And so in our master closet, have like an entry to our crawl space. There's this really dark ring that was around it. And our assumption at first was that the foundation caught fire or something and it had basically smoke had been coming out. But I actually think what happened is smoke was getting pulled back through there. So there's basically just tiny cracks around it, you know, and you can't really even see into the naked eye, but it is still a crack that air can go through.

Mike DeHaan: [24:56] And so I think the smoke was pulled through their backs like the vacuum where the flame was. And so all of our stuff that's in our master closet, that's like above that is totally fine too. Cause I don't think the smoke ever reached it because it would basically just get sucked back to the fire right away.

Dylan Koch: [25:10] Clarifying thing too. I know this from the rental policies. There's usually replacement costs or actual costs. I'm assuming you had replacement costs, which at least in my neighborhood is usually higher than the properties are actually worth.

Dan Austin: [25:24] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [25:24] Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's about 25% higher than the property's actually worth.

Dylan Koch: [25:28] Okay. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [25:29] So

Dan Austin: [25:29] Yeah. There's a wrinkle in that I wanna share after Mike's done.

Mike DeHaan: [25:32] Yeah. So I don't know if there's anything else more to add on like that regard. But like I said, I will say because it's such a huge incident, stuff has been moving forward relatively quickly. Also too, I'd say if you, if you're ever in this situation, car insurance company right away. So they'll also give you money. I mean, they gave us $10,000 to cover immediate costs with no question. Literally, they just sent me a form. I signed, I had the money the next day.

Dylan Koch: [25:54] That's awesome. That's just

Mike DeHaan: [25:55] free money to just cover like super basic stuff, you know? And there's no like obligation to pay it back. You don't have to keep receipts or do any of those sorts of things. And I think right now, especially because it's such a large incident, being proactive is going to be so, so critical. And it's really hard to do when you're in a state of mourning. Right? But you also just like need to move stuff along. Otherwise, you're gonna get into the system because ultimately it's gonna happen over the next couple of weeks. It always happens to those sort of things. The rest of the city will move on. The news will move on. Everyone will move on. And there's still going to be, you know, 900 families that don't have a home. Right? And so you've got to take advantage of what's given to you while it's top of mind for people.

Dan Austin: [26:42] Right. I think about this too. Like that's 900 building permits that have to get issued by the city who takes like, when I did a building permit for the house I was building, I think it took like six to eight months. Now times that by 900 new ones coming in. Right?

Dylan Koch: [26:58] You would hope that they expedite given the but I get your point.

Dan Austin: [27:03] I would say, you know, you hear the horror stories out of California, we're not California. And I would say our city and county are pretty good about being reasonable about that stuff. But you'd hope that they would. The other interesting thing is, is like we have all these new energy codes that are gonna fundamentally change how you can build houses. The energy codes went in like two years after Mike's house was built. So that will affect the permitting. Right? How do you you can't just do it one for one with insurance because now you're required to do certain insulation and certain Gotcha. Interior things that you have to do for

Dylan Koch: [27:36] Even where like proximity of outlets to water, like, stuff like that. Right? Like yeah.

Dan Austin: [27:41] Sure. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah. Exactly. And maybe those are things the city is willing to say, you know what? We're gonna forego that because this is a state of emergency, which would expedite being able to do permits. So you'd hope so. I think our folks are decently reasonable in that that sense. But

Mike DeHaan: [27:53] Talking to our, our public adjuster, he actually said Washington is really good with stuff like that. He's done stuff over in the Seattle side pretty frequently. And he said that, like, for when it comes to, like, consumer rights and sort of disaster recovery, Washington's one of the best states for it, which is really nice. So people rip on the blue state, but the thing is blue states, they do give money back into the people. You know? It's not it's not always just to the people that everyone hates. You know? Sometimes sometimes it's due Exactly. The

Dan Austin: [28:23] Yeah. There, there's definitely lots of good benefits about it, especially when you're in need. One thing I want to say on the insurance thing. So I have several friends that lost their homes, and then one of them was telling me, you know, total losses, right? Just completely to the ground. So you mentioned actual cash value and replacement costs, Dylan. Yep. Ideally you don't have actual cash value because what that means is they're going to take the depreciated value. So a lot of times, like we'll even separate your policy anyways, like your roof. Like if your roof like blows off your house and you need a new one, say it's a thirty year roof and it's fifteen years old, they're only gonna give you at best 50% of what that roof is worth to what it costs their places.

Mike DeHaan: [29:01] Which is

Dylan Koch: [29:02] a crock of shit, but it's a good

Mike DeHaan: [29:03] It's

Dan Austin: [29:03] a crock of shit. Yep. And roofs are notoriously that way, even if you have a replacement cost policy. But yeah, actual cash value is a depreciated value. So they're gonna say, well, your carpet was ten years old, so it's actually worth this. And they have all these calculations that they use and there's nothing you can do about it. That's where like having an insurance adjuster, a private insurance adjuster would help. The thing is, so replacement cost though. Your house totally burns down. You have a replacement cost policy. It's like, well, we're just going to rebuild it as it was when you set up your policy. So when you set up your policy, did you tell them you had tile floors or LVP? Did you tell them you had coarse countertops or did you just check the box to make it cheap, you know, to make your because you could check the box and make your insurance cheap monthly, but those are the materials that are going to approve for you to do. So if you said 40% of your house was tile, then whatever 40% of tile costs is what you're gonna get. But if you just said it's all carpet, you're not gonna get that full replacement.

Dylan Koch: [29:56] Mike, didn't you have gold toilets?

Mike DeHaan: [29:58] He did.

Dylan Koch: [29:58] Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [29:59] Did. Yeah. Everything I announced was gold actually.

Dan Austin: [30:02] It was gold.

Mike DeHaan: [30:03] Gold weighted. The golden ballrooms actually modeled after I my was the inspiration.

Dylan Koch: [30:07] Oh, that's nice. That was good.

Dan Austin: [30:11] So but think about this for a second. Because it's everybody laughs and jokes like, well, insurance will pay for it. It's like, sometimes. And so think about this. You have a so this is what one of my friends was told. Okay, it's a total loss. We're going to tell you your policy replacement cost is, say, 400,000 for this. The first person to get paid is your mortgage company. Right? So you gotta pay off your mortgage, and then whatever's left over is what you can now build your house for, and that you you'll need to get a construction loan to do that. So what if you don't qualify for a construction loan anymore? Like that would suck. Or here's the weird thing that could bite you. What if you took a second out on your home where you had your HELOC maxed out? Like you still gotta pay off the lenders on your all the liens, right?

Dylan Koch: [30:54] And so You could literally pay them off and have no house.

Dan Austin: [30:56] You could be upside So down and have no like, that's the wrinkle I was gonna say is like, could, it could be very problematic for you. And I'm sure there are some people that are gonna be in that situation where they were actually upside down their house, man, they just bought their Who know? You know what I mean? And, and they did a 5% down loan and like, they're definitely upside down. And so it's like, there's all these things where you have insurance and you're like, gosh, dang. You know, like you don't think about it because you don't think about your house being a total loss when you're setting up insurance. You just assume, well, they'll just, they'll just pay for it. It's like, yes, but there's these little nuances that can bite you.

Dylan Koch: [31:26] Could you go to your insurance adjuster and let's say your house is over 400, but ask for a $500,000 policy?

Dan Austin: [31:32] In some cases, yes. But I don't know that you can do that on a replacement cost, but you gotta also remember, like it's also less your land value. So your rebuild costs.

Dylan Koch: [31:41] Right.

Dan Austin: [31:41] Yeah. You know, if you have like an actual cost value, you actually might have more to play with than you think because you could take out the land value and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, those are all nuances like Mike and I deal with all the time with when we're reviewing insurance docs for our borrowers is, yeah, so their, their insurance company will fight us and be like, well, we can't give you that much insurance. Like, okay, well you're insuring less than our loan amount. You know what I mean? And so then we have to take an- Yeah,

Dylan Koch: [32:03] sorry, not gonna fly.

Dan Austin: [32:04] Yeah, exactly. We have to take a nuanced approach. It's like, okay, so what if we took out the land value? Well, what is the land value? Okay. So say we're lending on a $200,000 loan, maybe 50 of its land, and they can insure up to a 150. Is that 150 enough to rebuild this house and keep our, essentially our lien made whole? You know what I mean? Yeah. And so there's, you know, that's stuff that you don't really think about, at least I never did. When I'm getting my insurance, I'm like, how do I get the best lowest cost insurance? Because I'm not thinking that it's not gonna pay for what I need.

Dylan Koch: [32:35] Yeah. Outside of a huge deductible or any of that other stuff, right?

Dan Austin: [32:38] Yeah, exactly. And then all the interior stuff, like Mike's talking about all the stuff of his, that's a total loss that's in the house. Like, you're not even gonna know about all that stuff until like years later when you're trying to find Like I told Mike, was like, probably don't own a thumb drive anymore, dude. Like, you don't own anything.

Mike DeHaan: [32:53] Know what I mean? Little stuff. And that's honestly where working with like the public adjuster is gonna be super clutch. He said to me, he's like, so the downside of working with him is that before I'm 100% made whole for all of my internal stuff, he's like, it'll probably be two to three years because he's like, essentially what'll happen is they're going to fight them on every single thing. And he's like, so after you get they said there'll be an initial chunk of change that you get basically to rebuild the house, which is great. They said, but then after that, for years into the future, you're gonna be getting like, oh, here's like a $6,000 check. Here's a $10,000 check. Here's whatever. Basically replace a lot of the items that the insurance company doesn't want to replace, but I don't have to do that. He does that for me.

Dan Austin: [33:34] He does that, which is nice.

Mike DeHaan: [33:36] So like, you know, as a business owner, let's say he gets me a million dollars, which won't happen. There's something crazy, a million dollars. He's going to make a $100. I am so happy to pay him a $100,000 to save me three years of headache dealing with that.

Dan Austin: [33:49] Oh

Mike DeHaan: [33:49] yeah. Because my opportunity cost as a business owner is so much more than that.

Dan Austin: [33:52] So much better.

Mike DeHaan: [33:53] And like, knows how to do it. Right? And it's such a

Dan Austin: [33:56] headache, dude. Mike and I have had to deal with And on insurance our this is what they're going to do, because they've done this to us before. It's like every month they're going to be like, yeah, here's your new offer. And then you're going to be like, no, this is You're going to to fight it. And you're going to to argue with them. And then like six weeks later, they might come back to So they're gonna slow roll you, right, as an individual. And if you don't have the toolset to like fight them like a private adjuster does, you're the one doing it and you're at a disadvantage. The other thing like we had to deal with is then we get sued by the contractor that did the mitigation work. Because like, we wanna get paid. I'm like, I've gotten $0 from the insurance company. I have nothing to pay you with. Right? But now they are sending us to claims and threatening lawsuits to get paid. I don't have money. Right? And the insurance company will just keep slow rolling you and putting you into a bad position financially where you basically are painted into a corner with no option, but to accept whatever they give you.

Mike DeHaan: [34:45] Yeah. And that's the strategy.

Dylan Koch: [34:46] Not that it's like the same thing, but when I got in my car accident last It was literally the last September, so almost twelve months And I went to the the doctors and all that stuff. They said, like, they're so delayed in ginship bills anyway, but I'm not paying.

Dan Austin: [34:56] I know.

Dylan Koch: [34:57] This is their fault. Like, I'm not paying these. Sorry. And I still have still fighting like, okay. Well, like, scan it, upload it, put in the documents, give it to the insurance people. Like you said, it's more of a takes up headspace. I'm just like, I would pay for this to just be over and done.

Mike DeHaan: [35:10] Yeah. And to that point, because of how delayed it is, you know, very relevant to listen to this show. We've been harping a lot about, you know, selling properties, getting liquid, you know, making sure that you're actually in like a good defensive position and not just being fully leveraged all the time. You know, I think about some of our borrowers and stuff that we get through SLA. How fucked they would be this happening because they'll have no money.

Dan Austin: [35:32] They have nothing.

Mike DeHaan: [35:33] You know? And, like, also too, if they had no money, but let's say they also have rentals that burned or, like, they lost their house and now, like, then there's something happens to one of their rentals. Like, what do

Dan Austin: [35:41] you We have actual borrowers who have flips or houses that have burned down just last week. Like that are our borrowers that owe us money. Like, so holy shit. And like, you think

Mike DeHaan: [35:51] about that, we're like, do we actually have a borrower that lost the house?

Dan Austin: [35:54] Tim is one of them. He lost his.

Mike DeHaan: [35:57] Was that one of ours? That's like one of our loans?

Dan Austin: [35:59] No, I don't think it's one of our loans, but it's, it's a house that, and then Corey, I think he actively has a loan with us, does

Mike DeHaan: [36:04] he? Yeah, exactly. A loan with it. It's on the other side of town.

Dan Austin: [36:07] Sorry. Like houses that we're lending on aren't losses, but our borrowers have had taken a loss. Gotcha. So you think about when we're looking at some of these borrowers, like you're like, Mike's right. Like they're stressed, right? You don't wanna be that guy as a investor.

Dylan Koch: [36:19] And just as a general rule of thumb, if you have if you have some wins, especially early on, take some chips off the table. Yeah. Yeah. And realize those gains. And I there is something you've said about continuously reinvesting, continuously reinvesting, and, putting all the chips on the table. But after a certain amount of time, just actually take the profit that you've made for your own, for yourself and for your family.

Mike DeHaan: [36:39] Yeah. And and like, that's one thing I'm so grateful for is like financially, there's no concern for us at all. I had quite a few people I'm gonna sit here too. I really appreciate all the outreach that I've gotten. I've had actually a lot of listeners reach out. A lot of, you know, people just from like my wider circles reach out. And so like, if you guys know people that are affected by something, just reach out to them. It actually does like lift the spirits a lot to know that you're thought of. Like I have people that I haven't talked to in twenty years reach out to me. Honestly, I was like in high school reaching out and just hoping that we were okay, which crazy. So definitely do that. But also I had certain people ask me if we had a GoFundMe. I do not. I do not need your money as much as I appreciate that. Like, we're fine. I've been pushing everybody towards Corey that we mentioned before. I'll put his GoFundMe in the show notes as well. He's a part of our collecting keys community. He was a scale community member for us. Super awesome family. Literally lives less than a 100 yards from me and his house is 100% gone. So if you listen to this and you're feeling like you want to be charitable and you're looking for an individual cause, it isn't like a sketchy charity. You can go in and send money there as well.

Dan Austin: [37:46] Let me add one thing to that too, because like, and if you do like, hit up Mike and I both, because like, I've had several people reach out like, do you know anybody that had like a loss? And I'm like, yes. Like, do they have a GoFundMe? I'm like, no. And I also have people like, I don't wanna donate to a GoFundMe. I'm like, here's the person's Venmo. Just send them $10, $5, $100, $20, whatever. And so I've done that for several people and business owners locally that wanted to help and like, which is kind of cool to hear. Like, you know, there's all the things that go on in a disaster with all the people trying to take advantage of it. There's a lot of good people out there that quietly just want to help somebody, which is really cool to see.

Dylan Koch: [38:18] It's sad that it takes an event like this, but it does seem like it also brings the community closer together when events like this happen.

Dan Austin: [38:25] Totally. Totally. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [38:27] Yeah. Mike, anything you would have done differently, like, knowing this has happened now? Or like, you know, should I have all of our essentials in a safe somewhere? Like, I don't know. Any, like, tidbits?

Dan Austin: [38:39] Non replaceable things.

Mike DeHaan: [38:40] Yeah. For sure. So, you know, we are human beings. So we are like everybody else. Right? Like we we had a fire safe for like passports, important documents, all sorts of things. Of course, half the stuff wasn't in there. Yeah. So all that stuff's gone. A lot of it was in my wife's office. Because like literally that week, we had been finalizing our flights to Europe and stuff that we're playing for the next couple of

Dan Austin: [39:01] weeks, which we're no

Mike DeHaan: [39:02] longer doing. So all that stuff's completely gone. You know, I would say like, take the extra thirty five seconds and just put your documents in, the fire safe when you're done with them. Right?

Dan Austin: [39:13] Yes.

Mike DeHaan: [39:13] Takes no time at all, but now it's a giant hassle dealing with that. Outside of that, I would say like things that you might think that you're prepared. And Dan and I have talked to these men about this. No matter in your head, how prepared you think you are, when it actually hits the fan, I promise you that you're not.

Dan Austin: [39:31] You're not at all.

Mike DeHaan: [39:31] Yeah. You can't predict the circumstances. You can't predict how people are going to act. Even if you think you're prepared, there's

Dylan Koch: [39:38] Now you weren't home. Did you have a did you have a go bag or like a emergency bag that people I've used we don't. I I'd be honest, like, yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [39:46] No. We didn't.

Dan Austin: [39:46] That's the crazy thing too about it is like, to your point, Mike, like, being prepared. Like, you can have all these like systems in your house, but if you're not there, like, was in I was taking a quick, not a full day, just a casual day at the lake. I was flip flops, shorts, t shirt, and a cooler full of alcohol. And I was gonna chill out for the, just a few hours that day, and I couldn't even get back to my house. How helpless are you with flip flops on?

Mike DeHaan: [40:08] Yeah. That's the same as us. We were going to have a pool day with our friends after grabbing brunch. Like I said, like the and I always say that the worst days, it'll start like every other day. You will have plans. You will not know that the worst thing is coming. And that was 100% what happened. You know? And, and I would say that I'm so, so grateful that like, we are friends with our neighbors. So our dog was able to get saved. Because if we lost our dog too, it would've been fucking devastating, man. But like done differently at this point, like it's so hard to say because there's so many woulda, coulda, shouldas. But realistically, that we would've done them anyway, unless you were like neurotic about stuff.

Dylan Koch: [40:42] Right. Right.

Dan Austin: [40:43] Yeah. The one thing that I would say for everybody on that note, because I did this when I, when the second time I got evacuated was just film everything in your house once a year.

Mike DeHaan: [40:52] Just everything. Just go

Dan Austin: [40:53] through with your camera and film it. Because like Mike talks about the passports and stuff, that's replaceable at least. If there's like irreplaceable shit, like that you don't look at every day, probably put it in a safe or a safety deposit box would be better. But like, just video everything. Cause then it's, you don't have to worry about that when you leave. Just get out of your house and Or you're not there, you don't stress out.

Mike DeHaan: [41:12] What's so crazy is we talked about that for a while and I'd never done it. And then for some reason, like a month ago, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do this right now. And I literally went around our entire house and I filmed everything. Don't know why. I just got, like, this, like, sudden urge to do it, and I Felt it. I felt it, dude. How do

Dylan Koch: [41:28] you think an insurance not in your case, Mike. How do you like, let's say you have your grandma's ashes in an on the mantle. Like, there's no, like, monetary value that someone could put on that. That's just like one of those things though.

Dan Austin: [41:40] Yeah. It's sentimental. You're not getting that back. I mean No.

Mike DeHaan: [41:43] Like, honestly, the stuff that I was primarily concerned about when we got up there to finish up was I was concerned about our firearms. Not because like, want to save my guns, because I don't want them to break into our house and then now have like an AR 15 that they can go and do some bad shit with. Right. So I was heavily concerned about that. We have a lot of stuff for our son, like handwritten notes from family members and those sort of things that I wanted to save. And then for me personally, a lot of, we have a ton of handmade art, like real art from our world travels. And I really wanted to save a lot of that stuff because we'll never be able to replace that.

Dan Austin: [42:18] Yeah. That's you can't, it's irreplaceable.

Mike DeHaan: [42:20] No. Those are things that we wouldn't necessarily keep in like a safe because we want them displayed. Right? But, you know, like we did go up and and retrieve those things just because I wanted to make sure that like, if this fire does escalate, which it might still do this coming weekend, that at least it's in like somewhat better spot now.

Dylan Koch: [42:36] Yeah. Well, liked your your posts, and then we could probably end with this was what actually matters in this world, in this life, right, was like your wife, your kid, and your friends, and like your health. Like, that was pretty much the gist. And I know that's a cliche thing, but living through it is probably a different experience.

Mike DeHaan: [42:53] Dude, yeah, 100%. And I've spent the last many years of my life focused on business, focused on staying in shape, doing like bucket list trips, doing whatever. And literally over the course of a three hour span, none of those things really seem like that big of a deal anymore. You know? And, know, as we're going through all this, I'm super grateful that my son's only 10. And so we've kind of been joking about it is he's not going to remember it. Cause like we literally came home from like our completely destroyed house and I walked into our friend's house. We're singing, he's just like giggling, having like the best. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [43:28] You're like, your house is gone bud.

Mike DeHaan: [43:30] We've been joking of like, he's probably going to be like the age of like three or four. And he's kind of starting to ask questions and stuff. He's going to want to know the story about the fire. Right? Cause that's how kids are. Want to hear about the fire when they were a baby.

Dan Austin: [43:42] They might write a I Survived book about, don't know if you guys are familiar with those, with your kids aren't old enough, but I Survived the Spokane Fire.

Mike DeHaan: [43:49] Yeah. That'd be good. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. And then one last little thing I just wanted to share, which I thought was really cool piece of humanity. So I don't know if I said this already. So firefighters that saved our house as they were going by, they left us a note on the front door basically saying like, hey, like we saw the smoke from your house and we're sorry about the damage. We're able to save the structure. Assuming the Kutonai County fire department, we save that note. We're going to basically frame it when the house is recovered and put it in the entryway.

Dan Austin: [44:15] Yeah. That'd be cool.

Dylan Koch: [44:16] That's Bob. I love that.

Mike DeHaan: [44:18] Yeah. Little, little stuff like that. You know, it's like, you feel a little bit of humanity in all this stuff, you know? And we're at the acceptance phase. It is what it is at this point, you know, it's a horrible tragedy, but I'm at the point now where I'm grateful that we do still have something. And honestly, a lot of my energy is I just want to help other people that are significantly worse off because at the end of the day, financially, we're fine. Business. This is also a great hedge for you guys. Set up a virtual business because if like our entire company was in Spokane, that would have been a freaking mess. But because we have team members all over, we have overseas people, like literally nothing's skipped a beat with the company. It just still is rolling.

Dan Austin: [44:56] They're just key. They're plugging away, which is also like another milestone, I think that Mike and I need to high five each other at one of these points, because him and I were out of pocket. Mike, especially, like they just did their stuff and we kept making money.

Mike DeHaan: [45:08] Well, not only that, they stepped up. Right? Like, you know, we had some people like step into like leadership roles and things to basically keep stuff going, which is awesome.

Dan Austin: [45:16] Yeah. That's pretty cool.

Mike DeHaan: [45:17] You know, so we have no concerns there. We have family support. We have friends support, you know? And so we've been trans tragedy, which I have grieved about, but I'm, you know, now mostly just trying to help other people that don't aren't as fortunate as us at this point. So if you guys wanna contribute to that, like I said, I'll put Corey's GoFundMe in our show notes. I'll put it on my Instagram. Well, signature description, whatever they call it. On my profile as well at Mike underscore Invest. I'll share it with you guys too if you guys wanna do that. But if you're feeling charitable and gone, want to give some money, give it to him. Great dude. Member of our wider community is part of the podcast and literally lives down the street from me. And, I would say do that over giving it to some like random organization because there's lot of scam artists out there that are doing sketchy stuff.

Dan Austin: [45:58] Oh yeah, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [45:59] So then you'll at least know that it's going to someone directly. Yeah. Outside of that, I don't know. We're just going be going one week at a time right now. And I'll, I'll kind of keep everyone in the loop too just for learning purposes as I go through things with insurance and all that. So you guys can learn from my experience being in a in a natural disaster for if and when it happens to you guys.

Dylan Koch: [46:19] Hey. Fire can't even keep Mike away from the podcast.

Mike DeHaan: [46:22] Totally. So well, thanks for listening everybody, and talk to you guys next time.