Hire Fast, Fire Faster, and Let Bad Hires Teach You

Mike DeHaan: [0:01] Yeah. It should be, like, my last episode where I'm in a random location because I do have basic stuff that I have now.

Dan Austin: [0:09] You got, yeah, good stuff, normal stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [0:11] Getting started. Yeah. Yeah. What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. I'm Mike DeHaan here with Dan Austin. No Dylan today because he is on vacation, which good for

Dan Austin: [0:22] him. No deal, by

Mike DeHaan: [0:23] the way.

Dan Austin: [0:24] So that was,

Mike DeHaan: [0:24] like, the first vacation that he's taken since his kid was born. He's now almost two, I think. So that's a long time to just be sitting around. I know. Especially because I think I've taken Yeah. Five trips since my son was born. He's not even a year yet. So

Dan Austin: [0:38] Yeah. Yeah. It can be challenging, especially with work schedules because I know his wife still works. Yeah. And he obviously grinds. So that throwing into to the bunch of the baby and not being sure. He Dylan doesn't strike me as a not that he doesn't travel because, like, I mean, he travels, but he doesn't strike me as a a person that necessarily prioritizes that outside of other things that he prioritizes. He's part of his golf.

Mike DeHaan: [0:59] Hey. That's that's his all

Dan Austin: [1:00] He's, like, good at it too. Yeah. He told me what he was shooting. I was like, damn. Okay. You're, like, good.

Mike DeHaan: [1:04] Yeah. I mean, you know

Dan Austin: [1:06] He shot a 79 last week.

Mike DeHaan: [1:08] Here's how I know golf isn't that hard is because I know a lot of guys that shoot that way. Right? Yeah. It's true. You know, it just means if you play enough, you're gonna get decent. Sure. It's hard to be, like, the best in the world, but if you can get to, like, close to par just like being a kind of a casual player, it means it's a really generally pretty easy game.

Dan Austin: [1:23] Bro, dude, I'll tell you what though. The level of fucked up my back is right now from trying to be a golfer is dude, like, I have to go to the doctor. Like, it's that bad, and I don't have back issues. It's like to the point to where I can't barely get out of bed.

Mike DeHaan: [1:36] Well, you you say you went to like a

Dan Austin: [1:38] driving arrangement with your daughter. Right? So you're just trying to hit the ball hard probably. And so I'm trying not to hit the ball hard is the thing. I'm trying to hit the ball well. But, yeah, for like the like not the last two weeks obviously, because fires and now I'm not in Spokane. But like the four weeks prior to that, my daughter has Thursday night practice. So I'll go and get a bucket of balls, go to the range, hit them. I haven't been like, oh, tweaked my back. Nothing like that. Back doesn't hurt while I'm doing it. Nothing like that. But then like slowly, it just like crept up to where like bending over is, like, an issue, and I don't have a bad back. Right? Like, I'm not some, like, broken ass dude. And so I'm like, this is stupid. Like, it's not even why why would what? It's not even worth it, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [2:13] To be careful, I had to get injured playing golf because that's, like, that's super embarrassing. It's like it's like, you know, when you hear these guys that they, like, tear their ACL, like, stepping off a curb. It's like, no, dude. You gotta tell them that you were doing something cooler than that. You can't tell the truth.

Dan Austin: [2:27] It wasn't even, like, cool. It wasn't even, like, I, like, was driving the ball, though. And, like, you know, like, see some dude, like, tweaked my back. None of that. It was just, like, over time, my body can't sustain the it's just such a rugged sport. My body can't handle it. It's a wear and tear thing.

Mike DeHaan: [2:39] Rugged sport. Thank god. Yeah. If you're John Daly, mister mullet and smoking ciggy, the man's man right there. Dude,

Dan Austin: [2:47] I'm so conflicted because, like, I've talked to you about, you know, the country club up kinda where we live. I guess, is it a country club? I don't know. It's a a golf club. I think a whatever it is. Whatever you yeah. Whatever you call Kalispell. It's like a golf. It's mostly a golf course, but then they have, you know, kind of facilities and stuff like that. It's a it's a club for, you know, middle class white people. Anyways, like, they offered like, they're like, yeah. We'll probably call you this all because it's like a 250 person waiting list, which is long for Spokane. And they bumped me up to, like, the top and said, oh, we'll call you this fall. And honestly, though, I'm like, a, my back hurts. So I'm like, I don't know, like, that I would wanna join a golf club to be around golfers. And then also, sorry to my golfers out there, but, like, when I sit there at the country club and having dinner, because I have a decent little restaurant there, it's something crazy, but some decent little, like, spot for near our house. And I look at a lot of people playing golf, I'm like, ugh. I don't wanna associate with you.

Mike DeHaan: [3:41] Why? Like Just like

Dan Austin: [3:44] you know, like, the type. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [3:46] Well, don't know what you're saying, but everyone listening to an audio podcast. So you Yeah. That's true. You can't completely isolate 90% of our audience and then not

Dan Austin: [3:54] Okay. You know what? Let me explain why. Because first of all, I will say this. I enjoy being on the golf course. I actually like any outdoor hobby. Like, stuff like I don't hunt, but I I've gone hunting with people without a gun. Because I I just like going outdoors and, like, being with people and doing dude stuff and being around, having good conversations. So the golf course is like an opportunity for that. And you can like slug beers and so it is kinda fun. But like, then I just see like the random dude there on like a Tuesday. Like we

Mike DeHaan: [4:20] were there like about a

Dan Austin: [4:21] month ago maybe like on a Tuesday night. And there's like guys out there like at, I don't know, 06:00 on a Tuesday, like, practicing their putting and playing their game. You know they're there Saturday for sure for five hours playing with their bros. And I'm like, you're away from your family doing this silly little sport at multiple times a week, and, like, it just to me just I don't know. It just seems so silly. And then the not this isn't like ubiquitous, but a lot of golf courses, the people playing on the golf course and then the people working on the golf course are like assholes. And and I'll give you a good example. I was literally driving around one of the city courses in Spokane with the golf pro there, like the guy that people know is like the the guy. Right? And two people tried chewing his ass, and he was giving my daughter and me and my wife like a tour of the golf course and kinda showing my daughter, like, hey. Here's the tees you'll start from and, you know, just giving her a kind of a lay of what it's our first time being on a golf course. He was kinda giving us, a little special tour.

Mike DeHaan: [5:16] Yeah. And your your daughter's seven too. Just wanna emphasize. It's your athlete with, a small child. Exactly.

Dan Austin: [5:20] Yeah. Yes. A small child wearing a golf cart, clearly not even playing. Like, we don't have nothing. And dudes are, like, two different people, like, tried literally chewing his ass for not having proper golf etiquette because he was driving not on the fairway, but near the fairway. And I was like, oh my god, dude. This is like I was like, this is a great introduction for my daughter. Yeah. Right. Some some, like, 27 year old bro trying to yell at this golf pro for not having golf etiquette and showing and telling him he doesn't know how to be on a golf course. Yeah. Like, this dude used to be a professional golfer.

Mike DeHaan: [5:49] Yeah. Yeah. Right. And now your daughter's gonna be, like, terrified of other people out there.

Dan Austin: [5:52] Right. So that's my reasoning why I'm like, I don't know, man. This is too much.

Mike DeHaan: [5:56] I mean, I I feel like there's a lot of hobbies that are like that. I mean, there's anything that's sort of, like, trendy. So, like, I play a lot of pickleball. And there's guys that are like that with pickleball too that, you know, they they go to, like, the two hour open play sessions every single day. Right? And then after that, they drill for, like, an hour, and they do all these different things. I'm like, I know you got kids. You told me about them. Yeah. I'm like, what what are you doing here? Like, I could entire evening you're here from, like, five to eight, you're obviously neglecting something.

Dan Austin: [6:23] But And your and your wife is, like, single parenting. Maybe they, you know, maybe they have, like, trade offs. Like, he gets to do that, his wife has, like, a tennis coach I

Mike DeHaan: [6:30] don't know. But there's also, like, fitness people are like that, you know, that are at their cross the gym for two hours every single day. You know? There's there's people that are, like, skiers that are like, oh, I gotta travel around and ski. My wife and kids don't come, but I'm gonna go helicopter ski with all my buddies

Dan Austin: [6:42] But I'm pretty good.

Mike DeHaan: [6:43] Know, six times a year.

Dan Austin: [6:44] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [6:44] Like, I I would say for most people,

Dan Austin: [6:47] that's I mean, that's their priorities. Right? Because they're, you know, working their standard jobs and doing whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [6:52] I I feel like the entrepreneurial sort of mindset, it's easier to sort of, like, see that and be like, I feel like they're not prioritizing their time correctly, but I think they just prioritize it differently than we do because we are doing stuff that we actually care about.

Dan Austin: [7:05] Yeah. So I It's like people maybe are trying to disconnect from, like, their normal life and just have their space in, like, that, which is I get it. Like, that's I sure understand that, but I don't know. I feel like you're right. It's like when you're doing it more from the entrepreneur standpoint, you're probably an entrepreneur because you care more about how you integrate your lifestyle, like, every single day. And granted those days where you're grinding and and you do need a break. Right? Because that's just that's just nature of life. But you I think of things more in terms of like, oh, I'm super stoked to do that with my kids or teach my son how to do this. Yeah, there he's not gonna always be able to go skiing with me at the mountain, but, know, I'm gonna probably ski with him while I teach him and he grows and then maybe eventually him and I will go to top of the mountain. But it's like you kinda have to take a step. I feel like taking a step back on my hobbies and and integrating them into those hobbies and then if they pick up new hobbies like, you know, then we'll do it. I I always laugh because like our banker that Mike and I work with, his daughter is super into k pop. And so I don't know if you know this, Mike, but she does like dance lessons, like singing lessons, like they're like super like that's her hobby and then now he's just like on the freaking road with her.

Mike DeHaan: [8:12] Yeah. That's funny.

Dan Austin: [8:13] Keep up.

Mike DeHaan: [8:13] I remember him telling us that when we went to lunchtime doing the yeah. But

Dan Austin: [8:17] Yeah. He's so like, you know what I mean? So sometimes that's up to you.

Mike DeHaan: [8:20] Yeah. Really quick. What are you playing with?

Dan Austin: [8:21] My son's Legos. Yeah. There you go.

Mike DeHaan: [8:24] Yeah. I think when we don't have the good mics, yeah, we're picking ourselves up. Yeah. This will be last mic for I get last night for, like, shitty audio podcast with where shortly we'll be curious about because Yeah. I'm back in Spokane dealing with all the all the fire stuff and the next steps. The, I would say the good thing about when you have these kind of situations, like your house burning a wildfire, you learn a lot about different industries really quickly. Like, I've learned so much about, like, how insurance actually works and how to actually, like, read insurance policies and different things, especially after talking to, like, some of my neighbors who are getting completely wrecked by their insurance policies. And ours was actually apparently pretty good because we're getting a lot. And, like, for me to Yeah. Like, find housing and all sorts stuff has been incredibly easy. I've talked to a lot of people who have, like, some of these big, like, State Farm and Liberty Mutual. They hadn't gotten calls back yet. The fire was almost two weeks ago now, and they have spoken to nobody.

Dan Austin: [9:17] And mind you, they had, like, gigantic RV buses with State Farm and Allstate and stuff on it. Like, they came to the fire disaster location. You can see them in town. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny because I've learned a ton just from looking at it from our standpoint of protecting ourselves as a lender. But, like, a couple years ago because, like, you and I have had insurance issues where we probably didn't have the best policies. And they're like, oh, you didn't opt for this Airbnb insurance? Like, no. I didn't know I needed to. Like Yeah. Why didn't you tell me that? Like Yeah. Oh, so you can't have loss of

Mike DeHaan: [9:46] use? Mhmm. Yeah. And and, like, now that I've experienced such a loss, it's completely changed my view on insurance. Because, like, for most people, like, insurance is a scam. You know? Like, what do you pay for? You don't use it, but all of sudden, when you do need to use it, it's such an extreme situation. I'm so grateful that we paid more for the policy that we had because, like, our total coverage for everything is, like, immense. Yeah. Our policy alone was a 125%

Dan Austin: [10:13] of, like, the house's value. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [10:14] Right? So that's super high. And then, essentially, all of the, personal items and stuff that we had, the policy that we had, it was a, current market value policy. So basically, if we bought something like ten years ago, what a lot of insurance policy do is they'll depreciate it. And they'll be like, well, that couch that's ten years old, you get $0 for that. Instead, we get full replacement costs at current market value. Right? So we're going to be able to recover essentially all the expenses for everything in our house. And like the amount of money, like the cost difference for that, like, realistically, I would say probably gonna be getting close to a $500,000 more of payout potential with everything. That's amazing. Right? But, like, the actual monthly difference versus some of the other policies that people have had are, like, less than $200 a month, but you get a $500,000 upside. And I'm like, if you make, like, real money, pay the extra $2,400 a year. Because, like, when something bad happens, which you never expected to happen to you, but it does. You know, I went to fucking brunch and just never went home because my house got on fire. It's definitely worth it at that point. So, you know, it's it's been interesting going through kinda, like, getting through everything and sort of, like, seeing what's actually salvageable and what's not. And so my, my wife's you're gonna appreciate the story, Dan. My wife's office was the room that caught on fire. You've up there.

Mike DeHaan: [11:29] You've seen it. And, like, everything in there is freaking destroyed.

Dan Austin: [11:32] Right? It's all black and melted.

Mike DeHaan: [11:33] Yeah. Black Whatever's in there. Yeah. Everything in there is pretty much melted. But I've been out there several times since, and I've started to dig through. And some of the stuff that survived has been, really interesting. And so some of the, like, little odds and ends have been pretty good. Like, my wife had, like, a a drone, just like a little, like, personal drone that was in, like, a protective case that's, like, completely fine on the inside, some of that sort of stuff. Like, in the office? In the office. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, like, that was totally fine. And then some of the stuff, like, if it was, like, under a certain amount of things, like stuff on the outside we burned, but, like, underneath it, there's actually more in there that's probably salvageable than we realized. Oh, nice. But the really interesting one is that so when we went to Cambodia a couple years ago, my wife bought this, like, this little pouch, like, from some shoe vendor, and it had, like, elephants and stuff on it. You know? It was like they painted it. But it was a, a pouch that was originally it was, like, basically recycled packing material for concrete. So, like, they would have, like, raw concrete, they would basically just cut up the bag. It's like, yeah. We'll paint this and sell this to tourists. You know? And little little catchy thing.

Mike DeHaan: [12:32] But she would keep her money from her art markets in there, like her cash. And when the firearm, she was like, She's like, have, like, several thousand dollars in money that I never deposited. Yep. And so when I went up there, she was like, you know, was like, like, I was asking her if there's anything that she wanted me to try and recover. And she was like, well, I doubt it's there, but you should see if my money, like, somehow survived. And so it was, like, literally, like, where the fire started, this whole thing. So it was, like, tucked in, like, right by your desk, like, where the fire started to. And I went and I I was digging through, and I found the bag. K? And I and the zipper, like, it's all melted. This thing is completely destroyed. Of course. Yeah. And and I was able to, like, basically cut it open, and inside was about $3,000 completely untouched.

Dan Austin: [13:16] Oh, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [13:16] Yeah. Like, perfect. Amazing. There was $1 that was basically burnt, which was the one that was, like, on top of, like, all the other dollars. Right? And it was a $1 bill that was basically sitting on top, and that one was completely black and burnt to a strip, but it had protected the $3,000 underneath it.

Dan Austin: [13:33] No shit.

Mike DeHaan: [13:35] I couldn't believe

Dan Austin: [13:35] it. Amazing,

Mike DeHaan: [13:36] dude. So crazy.

Dan Austin: [13:37] You should go back to Cambodia and get a couple more those pouches

Mike DeHaan: [13:39] and get fireproof. Seriously. Like, honestly, like like, no one the pouch is completely destroyed. Like, it, like, was disintegrating, but it protected the stuff inside.

Dan Austin: [13:46] Yeah. That's crazy, though. That that pouch was disintegrated, but the money was still yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [13:50] That's crazy. Yeah. I could I couldn't believe it. Yeah. I mean, did this the money stunk. I took it to the bank, and the the teller was like, well, like, it it does technically have, like, damage. Like, you might have to, like, send it into the the treasury and all sort of stuff. And then the manager came out, and, you know, this is also why you have a relationship with your bank, by the way. I know the manager at, like, the local thing. She received me in there all the time. And she comes out, she's like, oh my god. I didn't know your house was affected. She was like, we'll we'll figure it out. Like, we'll just count all of it. We'll deposit it. We'll figure it out. Like, you you're good. We'll get it sorted out for you.

Dan Austin: [14:19] Yeah. That's awesome.

Mike DeHaan: [14:20] So which is pretty sweet. But yeah. Yeah. Just like That's funny. As we the more we got through it, there's just, like, little stuff that we've realized we've been able to save,

Dan Austin: [14:26] but then there's also there's a ton of stuff that have

Mike DeHaan: [14:28] to get rid of too. So Yeah. Yeah. I I would say if you're ever in these situations though, whether it's for like a rental or or a personal property, if there's such a significant loss like this, less like a total, you know, demolition pretty much. I've been working with our friend from Gobunds who's a public adjuster. I'm so glad that we opted to work with him just from when I did, like, the initial walk throughs with both the insurance adjuster and the different mitigators and stuff because he speaks the language. Yeah. And everyone knows that the insurance company is gonna try to screw you. Right? That's no secret.

Dan Austin: [14:59] Yeah. And it's just part of the business. Right? It's not like they're bad people. That's just what their job is to do.

Mike DeHaan: [15:04] Yeah. There is a, like, misaligned incentives. You know, they wanna pay you as little money as possible. And when you hire a public adjuster, they basically get compensated based on what they recover, so they wanna get as much money as possible. Right? Yeah. But when the insurance guy showed up, he's like, oh, yeah. You know, you can probably clean this. And David, our public adjuster, was like, oh, well, with code blah blah blah. I was like, you actually have to replace this. And based on his policy, like, you're required to do this and all this kind of stuff. I had no idea where any of these things went. But, like, David had it locked down.

Dan Austin: [15:33] That's amazing, dude. I'm so stoked.

Mike DeHaan: [15:35] Yeah. And and then, like, by the end of it, it went from basically the guy really not wanting to give us much that essentially he's agreed verbally at least to replace every single thing in our house except for, like, my wife and I's clothing, which she thinks can be cleaned, which might be valid at some point. Yeah. And then, like, even some of the extended stuff, like, I didn't realize that we could get, like, as much as, like, $60,000 just for, like, landscaping and plants. Oh, there you go. Right? Thanks, dude. And I guess if you don't ask for that, the insurance company won't offer it

Dan Austin: [16:04] to you.

Mike DeHaan: [16:05] But a lot of insurance policies will have that. You know?

Dan Austin: [16:08] That's crazy. Of course, they won't give it to you if you don't ask.

Mike DeHaan: [16:11] That's funny.

Dan Austin: [16:11] Yeah. So just like a lot of

Mike DeHaan: [16:12] those things, he, like, knew how to drive those conversations. And then as well as he was talking to mitigation companies and that sort of stuff, first thing that was they show up is they go, oh, what do you need to do? And I'm like, well, I think this is what we gotta do. And he was able to explicitly outline, like, how we needed them to pack up everything, what we're gonna need to be cleaned Yeah. How the demo needs to go, all the different stuff. And I was like, I can't imagine how you can get this right if you hadn't done it before. Yeah. You know?

Dan Austin: [16:37] Yeah. How would you even know what to do? Like, I have no idea. You have to rely on your insurance company to tell you that.

Mike DeHaan: [16:42] Correct.

Dan Austin: [16:42] And, of course, they're not they're not gonna tell you the best way. They're gonna tell you the most cost effective way to do things.

Mike DeHaan: [16:46] Exactly. Yeah. Whatever they think they can do for the least amount of money. So, yeah, so it's been a long few days out here kinda working on all that, but we have good progress. Nice. And optimistically, open the house would be back up to speed in, like, six, eight months for having to completely gut it down. But, you know, it's a it's not an ideal situation. But just like everything else, if you are very proactive and you build a team around you that knows how to do stuff, I do think you can't get it done correctly. Just most people, they just sort of try to, like, push it off. Or I was actually about this today when I was driving around is I'm so incredibly grateful that I mean, our our team's been crushing, which is awesome. But also the fact that I do work for myself so that I don't have to, like, check-in with my boss or go to, like, an hour you know, an office or anything like that, that would

Dan Austin: [17:35] make this impossible to try

Mike DeHaan: [17:37] to deal with right now.

Dan Austin: [17:38] It'd be really hard, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [17:39] Yeah. Good motivation as well for people to, figure out how to set your own schedule for when bad stuff happens.

Dan Austin: [17:44] It is important, dude. Like, being able to, like, just do like, who was I just talking to about this? Like, literally, this morning, I was talking to somebody about it on the phone. Like, how, like, your mindset changes and, like, having the ability and the flexibility to kind of, like, move around and not just, like, like, financially have it, but actually have, like, that time flexibility. Like, that is huge. Like, just go to just go do things that you need to get done or that you need you just need to do. You know? Totally. Like me, go down to San Diego because you wanna get out of the smoke while Mike dicks through the ash of his of his life.

Mike DeHaan: [18:16] Yeah. Exactly. Or or even, like, over the past

Dan Austin: [18:18] I can't handle this.

Mike DeHaan: [18:19] Yeah. Even over the past couple days is, like, the first mitigation company that I talked to last week basically just ghosted me. So I started calling to the companies they're like, I don't know. Like, as you imagine, we're so busy. And I just said to every single one, I was like, I am completely flexible. Give me a fifteen minute heads up to somebody that come to my house, and I will be there. And sure enough,

Dan Austin: [18:38] I saw Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [18:39] Eight different companies at my house over the last two days. And every single one was like

Dan Austin: [18:43] so a tech called me, and they're

Mike DeHaan: [18:44] like, hey. I have, like, a last minute cancellation. I'm about twenty minutes from your place. Can you meet me up there? And I was like, yeah. Do it. So I just I just posted up as a at a coffee shop kinda near my house, and literally, would just wait, and then I would just get calls all day for the last two days.

Dan Austin: [18:57] All

Mike DeHaan: [18:57] day. So I could go do that.

Dan Austin: [18:58] Honestly too. And the way you attack you're attacking it, though. I mean, you attack this is kinda your personality. You're a quick start, but, like, just being on top of things and just saying, okay. This is my priority. Like, everything else is important, obviously. But just attacking that, any problem, like any problem set, you know, like I told Mike the day his house burned, I was like, the good thing is this is your headache. You know, it's not like you're trying to solve someone else's headache. You know what mean? You're solving your own headache and so you can take take full, like, ownership of it and crush it. And, like, I think that helps in any tragic or shitty situation. You just gotta take ownership of what's going on.

Mike DeHaan: [19:31] Totally. You know, I'm more fortunate enough to have good enough sort of family dynamics that, like, my wife is just, you know, back in Montana, just fully taken care of with Yeah. Our son over there and hanging out with grandparents and that kind of stuff. So I just don't do anything to figure this out. But

Dan Austin: [19:45] Yeah. So are you guys, like, after the fire in Montana too, though? Like, isn't Montana half on fire? I mean, everything's a half on fire in the Northwest, but,

Mike DeHaan: [19:52] like Yeah.

Dan Austin: [19:52] There's a ton of fires over there too.

Mike DeHaan: [19:54] Yeah. Not not down near Bozeman where they're at. Oh, okay. Think it's mostly up, like, along, like, near Canada.

Dan Austin: [20:00] Oh, okay. Okay. I thought there was some, like, near Missoula or something like that.

Mike DeHaan: [20:04] There might be somewhere around there, but that's still that's still a good ways away.

Dan Austin: [20:06] That's true. I don't know. I think

Mike DeHaan: [20:07] there's just a bad season for that throughout the, like, entire Northwest. Feels like Yeah.

Dan Austin: [20:13] A rough year.

Mike DeHaan: [20:14] But either way, so that's moving forward, which is great. And, you know, the super I we talked about this over the last week, but definitely can high five their selves a little bit for how good the team has been just continuing to run stuff. Because it's when I I was on the call today, which is really the first time this week with, like, the full sales team. They've been so busy. And one of them was like, oh, yeah. So, like, I'm I'm tracking these for you a week. I've had, like, three loans closed, in the past couple weeks. You want me to, like, tell you what the details are about for basically your commission? I'm like, yeah. I have no idea. Just Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Update me. Yeah. Update Let me know. I'll make sure you get paid. Yeah. Because the the fact that we're having, like, loans closed and everything else without me to be fully involved is pretty awesome.

Dan Austin: [20:55] Yeah. Yeah. The team has been killing it. They've been doing good. It is an interesting thing because, like, we've done the we've built other businesses before, but when it comes to, like, doing the lending and stuff like like, there needs to be some level of, like, ownership from us because at the end the day, the buck stops with us. And when when we get buybacks or anything like that, like, it's on us. It's not on the employee. The employee has zero stake in the game. We have a 100% of everything in our net worth on the line whenever we kind of, like, do this stuff. And so it is, like, unnerving to see things flow without being, like, a thumb on every single thing. Mhmm. But you kinda have to because you can only get there only so many things can go through, you know, me and you before you just have that's the that's the limit. There's only so many hours in the day and then if you're never gonna do any more loans above that limit, then that's it. That's fine. But you have to let go of that and let the team kind of run through the system you built. And and, hopefully, you did a good job building the system because it'll catch, you know, errors and issues.

Mike DeHaan: [21:52] Totally. And I I think there's two pieces to that. Right? Like, there's the system piece, but there's also the fact that we've been very intentional about hiring staff that wanna do a good job, right, represent the company well and are bought in, you know, and do enjoy working for us, especially a lot of our, our overseas folks. Like, we've had some of them for years and years. You know? So so they've been through all kind of ups and downs with us, and they, you know, over Totally. Overseas people, especially, they're always super grateful for, like, a level of consistency with their employment. And so they really wanna do a good job. Yeah. You know? And our US staff has been awesome too because we they they just, like, have hired the kind of people that, like, wanna do well. So I think that's always, like, the biggest concern that small business owners have is they have trouble relaying, I guess, like, passing off anything that's, like, sort of high consequence like that. Two staffs, they don't trust about. They don't they'll do a good job. And Yeah. I have zero concern about that. And I would say the only time that any sort of, like, mistakes happen that could potentially be, like, a threat or an issue for us or the company are just because the system wasn't good around. It's not a stacking issue at all. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [22:57] It's just because there was something that wasn't totally clear.

Dan Austin: [22:59] Exactly. Totally. And you can't be upset at an employee when the system or the

Mike DeHaan: [23:03] No.

Dan Austin: [23:03] The process is not vetted out. We get, like, often from people, like, especially as they're building their businesses, like, how do you hire those types of people? And, you know, we've always said, like, hire fast, fire even faster. And I will also add to that is, like, employees can cost you a lot of money. So there's some element of that where that is true. But my answer to that question, like, how do you get those employees is a, you have to go out and find them. But the other part of that is is, like, sometimes you gotta hire shitty ones. Because we've had multiple shitty employees that we've let go or have quit based on them not fitting in, and that just happens. And so if you have to hire ten ten employees and one of them ends up being good, which is honestly probably a realistic ratio. If you're really intentional about interviewing and filtering down, say you bring in, like, 10, like, and you get one rock star, that's pretty probably pretty good. And the problem is is it's costly to you as a business owner because it's not the fact that you're just like losing money or something like that, but you're losing time because you're putting effort and and trying to build up an employee that doesn't necessarily work out. That's where I think the fire faster comes into play because you only interview people so much. Right? And you know your gut tells you within the first two weeks that this person's gonna be great. Anything after that is you saying, I think they're good enough I think I can get I can train them to like this level, but they're not gonna be great.

Dan Austin: [24:24] You can tell pretty quickly. At least I feel like I can. And so, you know, when we've had some of our a players come in, we knew right away. And I would say other people that we've brought in employee wise that weren't like, oh my god, they're the best. They're really good people. The ones that we've decided to keep. Like, they're really good people, and we could over time build them into a role. But they're maybe not gonna be, like, our number one salesperson or our COO or something like that. But they're gonna be really, really rockstar employees. But you can tell that based on personality, I feel like, really quickly.

Mike DeHaan: [24:51] For sure. And to your point, I feel like a lot of small business owners, you hear the conversation a lot. It's kind of a fallacy for them to say that they, like, waste time, you know, trying to, like, train these employees or or hiring all those sort of things. And I wouldn't say that it's a waste because that's, like, how you learn how to do it better. You know? Like, so going back to talking about the golf stuff, that's like saying if you don't know how to hit a ball well, is it a waste of time to go to the driving range? Yeah. Of course not. That's where

Dan Austin: [25:19] you go

Mike DeHaan: [25:19] and get more reps in. Hiring and training is the same thing. You get reps by doing it repeatedly. You will do it poorly. You know? And it's funny. I would actually say if you look, especially with our lending company, almost every single job that we've had in there, we are on, like, the second or third iteration of that role. Yeah. For sure. And I think that with every single one, the first person we hired, we learned what we didn't want so we could hire the person that we actually did more. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So we had a handful of people that only worked for us for, a couple of weeks. You know? Because when you're interviewing them, especially if it's a role that is kind of like new to you because your company's growing, you don't know what that looks like. Yeah. Right? And so you would do the interview. Their resume is good. They interview well, you bring them in. And then over like the next week, your gut kind of goes, you know, I don't really think that this is the right person. So you like try to train them. They sort of like show the real inadequacies, those sort of things. You get rid of them. You go, okay. So the next person, we don't want any of that. Yeah. We wanna completely different. Now I know.

Dan Austin: [26:19] Yes. So Yeah. 100%, man. Yeah. So it feels like a

Mike DeHaan: [26:22] waste of time, but, like, that is learning.

Dan Austin: [26:24] It's part of it. And it helps you build the role that you do truly want because there's, I would say in our industry with lending, there's pretty standard roles that people get plopped into. Like like you could just put out loan process or loan underwriter or loan officer, and there's like these boxes. But within those boxes, you gotta build that role for your company so that it fits you and your uniqueness of your company. So you have to learn what you do and don't want. Like, I know for a lot of the back ends people that process loans and stuff, I don't really need or want somebody from a big company that has, you know, a KIAVI or something like that. Because they're in a box and they're just like moving other blocks. Like where we provide a much more, I would say tailored custom, I wouldn't say necessarily bespoke, but like experience for our borrowers. Like, they you go to KIAVI for a KIAVI loan. That that's a totally different thing, that you're doing a totally different experience. I want somebody that can come with us and our borrowers give us messages like the one we got today from whatever loan processors from a borrower that was basically, this is a first time I worked with you guys, this has been an amazing experience. Like, do we give them that experience? And then in turn, our team has a really good experience. And then it's just a great place to come to work and, like, have fun, like, building that team.

Mike DeHaan: [27:32] Yeah. And, I wanna dive in and look at that file where we got that email from that guy because so often as a lender, people just complain. Because even if there is circumstances that delay closing through their title company or their insurance agent or even, like, the seller, everyone's just always say, like, oh, we're waiting for the lender's dock. They can't close yet. I know. You know?

Dan Austin: [27:53] Even though we're telling

Mike DeHaan: [27:54] them we're waiting for the docks because the insurance company hasn't given us their insurance policy yet. Yep. You know, all they do is they talk

Dan Austin: [28:00] to the closing. They said,

Mike DeHaan: [28:01] oh, wait for the lenders. We're always the bad guy. So we'll have to We gotta people.

Dan Austin: [28:05] Yeah. We gotta see. Yeah. That'd be good. What we did so good on you. Because yeah. Yeah. Or the title company. Like, the title company is the worst at throwing people in the bus, and there's some really bad Yeah. Title companies out

Mike DeHaan: [28:14] I mean, to be fair, they're just like the messenger for everybody, and the lender is the easy scapegoat. Because technically, I mean, the no one else cares if the docs aren't correct except for us. You know? The Exactly. Like, the the title company doesn't care if the insurance stocks are messed up or, you know, the Yeah. Full seller conditions aren't, like, fully agreeable. Right? There's, like, they're trying to collect their closing fee and get the doc to sign and then FedEx them back to us. So

Dan Austin: [28:40] 100%. 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [28:43] But yeah. Yeah. No. It's been good learning experience overall. So we'll keep moving on. But that's also the nice thing about the virtual biz I talked about last week is, you know, we're still making money. You know, we talked to a lot of different people right now whose, like, lives have been affected so greatly, and they're having to stop work or those kind of things. It's a very, very challenging place to be right now when you deal with these kind of disasters. So.

Dan Austin: [29:06] Yeah. Yeah. It really is. I mean, any any, like, life circumstance, like, major change for people. I mean, having a kid is a big change, but we get so used to that as, like, that's just part of life. You know? Everybody has a kid, and they still gotta figure out how to do their role. But, you know, there's you know, we've had employees who've had, you know, very sick children and stuff like that. It happens. Right? And you gotta live through that life disaster and figure out how to do that. And that's why I think having a really good team and a really I don't know. I like to think great company to work for where, you know, it's okay. Take care of your stuff. We're built. Like, where we like, you and I are building a business that I think we would want to be employees at where you work your ass off, but if you had a life circumstance that it would like, no. Take care of your take care of your family or whatever. Because we've built a business where you are critical and we need you, but we also have resources around you to come rush in and work their ass off for you because they want to help you. And also, that's just the kind of people they are. They they're willing

Mike DeHaan: [30:01] to do that. For sure. And I think it's hard to find, especially with small companies. You know? This is always the thing that's really interesting to me is talking to people that have these smaller companies, and they're so strict around, you know, time off or employee flexibility and that kind of stuff. Know, especially when it comes to VAs. Like, we've talked about this a lot, but how many guys we know that have, like, virtual assistants? And they're like, oh, I was screen tracking my VA. I noticed he's only working thirty four hours. Like, what? He's like he's like, does anyone want him to do six hours of tasks for you? I'm like

Dan Austin: [30:31] I doubt.

Mike DeHaan: [30:31] You really think that your secretary sitting in there is working for forty hours? No. Totally. He spends three quarters of the day scrolling social media like everybody else.

Dan Austin: [30:38] That brings for me, it brings up two thoughts too. First is, like, you hired a person to do a job and you budgeted and allocated x amount of dollars. Now if they're not doing a good job within that that amount of time, that's on them and that's on it's your job as the leader, the owner, or the or the manager, whatever, to fix that and get a new person. Right? But if you hire them for forty hours and you're willing to allocate a budget for forty hours, but their job took 25 this week because they're that good, who gives a shit, dude? Until you give them additional work and additional things based on their performance, like and anytime you start with a new person, especially in a virtual environment, it takes a while to scale them up because you have to train them virtually. Remember, when you're not on the call with them, they're sitting at home tooling their thumbs or wherever they work from if they're virtual, right? And so like that's on you and it's challenging because anytime I know I'm bringing people on, I'm like, okay, well, the next month is gonna be really busy for me because I have to figure out how to train this person. And I can't every time I let them just twiddle their thumbs until they have enough work to do, like, they are just sitting there. Right?

Dan Austin: [31:41] And so I also like to, I guess, coach them ahead of time and say, hey. You're gonna be really bored for a couple weeks. Just bear with me. It's not that 40 foot job, I promise. You know? Anyway, the second thing is I feel like today, as opposed to even a few years ago, the concept of, like, a virtual assistant or an assistant as we as we know it. Right? Real estate guys, we're always talking about VAs and cold callers, and everybody has a virtual assistant doing some task, right, on their Google Drive for them. I don't even know if that role exists anymore, like or needs to exist. I think of it as, like, you're hiring a person from Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Philippines, India, wherever the hell you're hiring them from, And the ability for them to work within your business is just like any other person. So would you call unless they're a true assistant, right, like an executive assistant like that. But would you call, I don't know, pick one of our whatever loan processor virtual assistant? I wouldn't. Like, I was just like, no. They're a loan processor. Right? And so it's interesting how how that dynamic has changed, I feel like, rapidly. But then for us, I think too, is, like, business owners and understanding what their capabilities are and and offering that growth internally for them. I feel like now it's you're just hiring professionally worldwide. And I think the combination of AI with any employee now, if they are capable of implementing it and using it, like, they're so powerful.

Dan Austin: [33:05] It doesn't matter where the hell they're from. It's kinda crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [33:06] Yeah. The knowledge gap has changed a ton because it it used to be like you would just hire VAs to do, like, data entry, and now they can do everything. They can have, like, in detailed conversations about high level topics. You know, a lot of them, like, have educational backgrounds that are relatively on par with US based one. What's actually funny too is, like, what, like, the good overseas people looks like to be paid isn't even that different from, like, a lot of, like, The US states. You know?

Dan Austin: [33:31] No, dude. It has it has of it. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [33:33] Yeah. So you think about when we used to work with, like, Call Porter, our answering service for our company. So all those people, they were, like, in the Midwest. Those people probably made less than we pay our VAs. They're probably making, like, $8 an hour out, like, a call center out there. You know? Yeah. So 100%.

Dan Austin: [33:48] Yeah. And then I

Mike DeHaan: [33:48] agree. Completely different sort of lifestyle that you can get with that, though. Meaning, like, the person that it will ultimately attract is gonna be much higher in those overseas places than in The United States.

Dan Austin: [34:11] Yes. Dude, that is such a good point too. Think about this because and I feel like since 2019, this is, like, been a isotopic growth. You know what I'm saying? Asymmetrical growth.

Mike DeHaan: [34:22] Asymmetrical. I'm saying asotopic. Is that word?

Dan Austin: [34:25] Asymmetric. You guys go with what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. It's compounding so quickly because of technology. And I just think culturally in worldwide, the group at which you're hiring from is so different and so much bigger where and I think there's some mindset changes that are how US workers are and and small business owners are too. But my point is is, like, when you're a one percenter in your country, you're just a different type of person to be able to get to 1% in your country. And my point too is is, like, you had you had, like, developing countries and third world countries, and you still have really, really poor pockets where there's really, really low education. But also areas where there are, like, those pockets that are really, really, poverty stricken, they're still highly educated and highly qualified people. It's just a different, like it's just a different world for them. Right? But that person, we'll just use The Philippines for example, because that's where we've recruited from heavily. Like, that country itself, like, their quality of life is different than what we would expect in The US. However, $8 an hour, $16 an hour, you get to $20 an hour in The Philippines, you're a one percenter. And to be a one percenter in The Philippines, there's still a shit ton of people that

Mike DeHaan: [35:32] live there. You still have to

Dan Austin: [35:33] be really, really good. You're not just some slouch as opposed to somebody that their alternative was working at a fast food restaurant or something. And usually, you would I would put that as like a entry level role. Right? But those are becoming more you're a 35 year old working at what would have used to be an entry level role just because the job market in The US and how things are changing. And because you have somebody in The Philippines for $20 an hour, that's a one percenter rock star, amazingly dedicated person. It's it's just such a weird change in dynamics of, like, how you're hired. It feels like it just flipped, dude. And it's not about, like, offshoring and stealing American jobs. It's about offshoring to find the most qualified person for your business.

Mike DeHaan: [36:11] True global economy. Right? Like, it's it's no longer, you know, The Us and them, but it's definitely fully merging. We've seen that a lot.

Dan Austin: [36:18] It feels that way, and it feels more acceptable, dude. And I even see it within, like, talking to our Filipinos because they I've heard them say comments and I try to coach them out of this because I don't believe and I don't want them to believe this is like, oh, and I've heard these are like word for word comments. Oh, well, just a Filipino. Like, that is not a that's not a thing. No. Like, don't say that. Like, stop that. Or they might another comment was made to me like just a few weeks ago, it was like, well because you know my accent or because of whatever, they might not believe me. And I was like, I don't give a shit what they think. Like that's not at all like even crossing my mind. And I I reflected on that and I was like, maybe I'm more progressive than some people, but when I get a call from somebody that has, like, a bit of an accent, I'm not, like, caught off guard anymore. I'm just, like, so used to it. I'm not immediately, like, oh, this is a scam. Right? You know what I mean? Where that's the mindset, but I think it's shifting really quickly into the point to where even, like, the overseas staff haven't caught up to that. For sure.

Mike DeHaan: [37:16] Yeah. It's it's more, like, universally acceptable. And now I'll find, like, a lot of our borrowers from people we work with, if we give them the number and say, oh, they're overseas. They're not like, oh, like, it's not like a thing anymore. They just go, okay. Cool.

Dan Austin: [37:27] No. Yeah. Exactly. And they totally expect it, and they're working with them, and they know. And, like, it it's pretty cool to see. I don't know. It's just the major observation I've made recently.

Mike DeHaan: [37:36] Totally. Do you know how many people live in The Philippines?

Dan Austin: [37:39] The total population Yeah. Go go ahead

Mike DeHaan: [37:41] and guess.

Dan Austin: [37:41] Good. I was gonna say 46,000,000.

Mike DeHaan: [37:43] Okay. You're low. I will tell you this. It is the fourteenth most populous country fourteenth most populous country in the world.

Dan Austin: [37:50] So it's over a 100,000,000.

Mike DeHaan: [37:52] Correct. 117,800,000 people as of 2026. So there's a lot of people.

Dan Austin: [37:57] So just for context, that's, like, three fifty in America?

Mike DeHaan: [38:01] Yeah. I think yeah. There's, like, close to 400. But, yeah, like, either way, like, it's a very significant portion of The United States population. So to your point, like, talking about, like, being a one percenter there, like, that's a lot of people that are competing with. Exactly. Yeah. It's crazy. That's 342 to 349,000,000 in The US. So yeah.

Dan Austin: [38:20] Alright. Nice. It's about about

Mike DeHaan: [38:21] a third of the population.

Dan Austin: [38:23] Wow. Japan's like a 100 and how many Japan's crazy for how many how small an island that place is.

Mike DeHaan: [38:29] Yeah. It is for sure. And it's a 122.4. So just a little bit more physical. It's not that many more.

Dan Austin: [38:36] Dude, it's crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [38:37] Yeah. So either way, there's lots of talent out there, you know, and and I think it's just an important thing to sort of keep in mind here as you're growing is you can really expand your search. And I I would say one of the things Mokden will wrap this up that has really shown how much more compressed it has gotten is now if I post a job listing on LinkedIn, I will get job applications from Filipinos on LinkedIn. Whereas traditionally, you had to find them on, like, Upwork or, like, online jobs at PH or, like, virtualworkers.org or whatever. You know? But now they're just, like, right in the same hiring pool as everybody else. And not only that, but they will apply for your job, and they will have, like, six years of experience at a company. It's not like back when we started hiring days originally in, like, 2020, where you would just have someone that had done random stuff on Upwork, and they couldn't you know, like, yeah. I worked for some guy, and I did a spreadsheet for him. You know? These are people that were, like, employees, you know, for a very long period of time and know the corporate process and everything else.

Dan Austin: [39:37] Totally. I like having that opportunity to, you know, see the background because I've noticed that as I've been looking for like I've been strategically and and intentionally looking for like Filipino underwriters because I know they exist. Wells Fargo has offices there, you know, Citibank. All these companies have offices in The Philippines. And there's people there that, yeah, was a credit officer for six years at at US Bank or something like that. And they'll they're like, okay, why are you wanting to leave there? Like, well, because I don't wanna go to the office anymore because it's a two hour community tour or something like that. You know, they all have, like, a good re hike. So you're like, yeah, that's fair. Yeah. Makes sense. I wouldn't Yeah. Makes sense. I wouldn't wanna do that either. You know what I mean? But they're seeking out because they're they are top level performers, and they're seeking out the best employment, and they have options. Right? So they're like, well, yeah, I'm working for a US based company here, but I don't wanna go to the office anymore. I I know I have options. I have skills. I have education, all that stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [40:29] Yeah. It's like people do here. You know, just like, it's not that different if you think about it from living in the Midwest and working for, like, a big tech company out of San Francisco or New York or something. Yeah. It's probably even cheaper with how unbelievably expensive US travel is to get to The Philippines than it is to get to wherever that corporate office

Dan Austin: [40:48] Yeah, bro. Don't even don't even get me started on that, dude. Yeah. I'm paying for four tickets whenever I go anywhere now, dude. I I can't do a lap baby anymore. I can't afford to fly anywhere in The US. Yeah. It's crazy how expensive it is.

Mike DeHaan: [41:00] Gonna have to use one of those what are the companies that will, like, buy now, pay later, but aren't credit cards?

Mike DeHaan: [41:07] Klarna. You see, start start start drinking Klarna for all

Mike DeHaan: [41:10] of your Dude. Tickets for your family. Just just get your kids on Klarna, dude. You think he can make think your seven year old can can use Klarna to pay for their own tickets.

Dan Austin: [41:17] Dude, I'm gonna I'm gonna have my kids fall on bankruptcy by the time they're 12.

Mike DeHaan: [41:21] You know? That's an improv mission. I made such poor financial decisions when they were little.

Dan Austin: [41:25] Seriously, dude. Oh, you guys wanna go on vacation? Well, guess what? You're gonna have to pay for it.

Mike DeHaan: [41:30] Use kitty clarna. Don't worry. You'll be fine.

Dan Austin: [41:32] Oh, dude. That's the next level. I mean, you gotta take go after these kids, dude. They're expensive, and they're untapped. They have clean credit right now. Go after them.

Mike DeHaan: [41:40] Totally, dude.

Dan Austin: [41:40] They're sitting there on Roblox. They're like, can I

Mike DeHaan: [41:42] use clarna to pay for my Roblox blood? Fucks. Yeah. Alright. Wrap this up. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. If you guys are crushing out there, I'll take you next week. See you.

Mike DeHaan: [41:53] See y'all. This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, and I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to SLA Capital dot com slash keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore Invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals.

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