Balancing Virtual Wholesaling and a W2 Job, w/ Brendan Chetuck

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] Really quick before the show starts, in case you haven't heard, we have a growing community of investors called the scale community, which is full of people learning to make massive income with their real estate businesses, so they can reach financial freedom a little bit faster than building a rental portfolio solely over time, because honestly, that takes decades and who has time for that. So if you're an investor who is serious about growing and creating a scalable business without needing to be a slave to it twenty four seven, then go to collectingkeys.com/scale and apply. And if you're a good fit, we would love to have you join the community. So again, collectingkeys.com/scale, go ahead and apply, and see if you're a good fit.

Mike DeHaan: [0:38] JV ing or using like a best lift platforms or that which they could help get you started. But there's no better networking tool in real estate than having those an opportunity.

Mike DeHaan: [0:49] What is going on, guys? Welcome to today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast. This is Monday, it's the scale show. And on this show, we interview operators just like you who are growing and actively, let's say, investing in their real estate business and trying

Mike DeHaan: [1:07] to make it something that allows them to leave their w two or make really big money and live the life that they want. And our goal with this show is for you guys to be able to walk away with something that's super actionable that you can apply to your businesses today. So make sure you're taking notes and make sure that you reach out to our guest here afterwards. You've been in Scale for how long, Brennan?

Brendan Chetuck: [1:28] Yeah. Probably like a year and a half at this point. Think last April.

Mike DeHaan: [1:31] Yeah. So a year and a half long scale community member Brennan Cheddak. And I know you live in Florida. You invest in a different part of Florida. I've met you one time at KeysCon. You recently had a kid. And so I kinda give, like, an intro about where I know where things are at. But I'll be honest, dude, I haven't talked to you a ton for the last, like, year. So I guess to kick us off, give us a general three minute overview who you are, where exactly you're operating your business in, because I know it's virtual for you, and what your team currently looks like.

Brendan Chetuck: [2:03] I grew up originally in New York on Long Island. Pretty, you know, normal, you know, middle class family. Definitely not rich, definitely not poor. Right? Kind of like the one vacation a summer type family.

Mike DeHaan: [2:15] You go to, like, the Hamptons or, like, what did you

Brendan Chetuck: [2:17] go down

Dylan Koch: [2:18] to New York?

Brendan Chetuck: [2:18] I did not. No. Not not really. That's what everyone thinks Long Island kind of rich people, but only the Hamptons and then closer to the city is like that. Yeah. So I went to college, kind of did the whole normal college deal that everybody, you know, I guess our age was doing. Got my business degree, you know, started playing some sports in college. So I kind of had an overlap where I had an extra year of eligibility trying to figure out what to do, figured out go get my MBA. Why not spend a little bit more money on college? During that time, I actually, you know, I knew I kind of wanted to be into investing. I lived in some college houses and figured like these guys have to make a decent amount of money. Just kind of doing the quick math from what, you know, my friends were paying. Met a guy in my MBA who kind of turned me out to bigger pockets. And then so at this point, I was living in Upstate New York, bought my first rental up in New York that was a student rental, and then kind of, you know, took that path for a little while. So the next two years bought, like seven units that were all student rentals And kind of like, you know, you guys talk about on this show, just realized that I was not getting my financial freedom through those, you know, $250 units cash flowing a month.

Brendan Chetuck: [3:36] So

Dylan Koch: [3:36] Brandon, you sorry. Were you house hacking these, are these, like, the traditional, like, 25% down rental stuff?

Brendan Chetuck: [3:41] Yeah. So the first one so two of them we did house hack, did, like, the 3% down, three and a half percent down FHA. And then two of them actually bought with partners, which was 25%.

Dylan Koch: [3:54] What timeline was this again?

Brendan Chetuck: [3:55] It was from 2020. So I bought my first rental literally January 2020, then COVID hit, which is a whole other story. And then up until about 2023, so, you know, like years. At this time too, my job was about $50,000. So, you know, using partners is kind of the only way that I could really grow those units.

Mike DeHaan: [4:16] I just wanna highlight that because, like, when you originally started talking about your numbers, I would have assumed it was, like, longer ago. But, like, that's super recent. Like, that's kind of after stuff had started to, you know, boom and take off. And that's when most, you know, people our age are like, oh, it's it was too late to buy properties at that point. But you did the contrary. And you said you were making $50 a year. You weren't making a lot of money. You were figuring out how to get these done. How did you, like, I would say, build those initial relationships to start buying deals early on?

Brendan Chetuck: [4:45] Yeah. So some of it was just from being upstate for eight or so years. I knew some people who were doing the whole college rental scene. And then I actually also, while I was working my full time job, I worked a property management job as well. So, you know, kind of took the reins from them and some of, like I said, the local people that I knew there that were doing the college rentals, just took advice from them, you know, pretty much saved every penny that I could. And at one point, my girlfriend actually well, girlfriend at the time, wife now, worked for a property manager who he would rent us his units and then we would Airbnb them out. So pretty much like the Airbnb arbitrage.

Dylan Koch: [5:26] Oh, arbitrage.

Brendan Chetuck: [5:27] Yeah. Before it was a thing. And that kind of helped us. You know, we didn't have any rent to pay because I was covering it, and we just saved every dime and then just pretty much would funnel it right back into, you know, the next property that we move into. And then the next year, move into that one and, you know, kinda snowball effect, I guess you can say from there.

Dylan Koch: [5:45] Yeah. Do you own these rentals till today?

Brendan Chetuck: [5:47] I do. Yes. Nice.

Dylan Koch: [5:49] So what was the transition from New York to where you are now?

Brendan Chetuck: [5:53] Yeah. So I hated it up in Upstate. You know, it was cold from pretty much, like, October to April, it's just gray as I'm sure it's pretty similar to where you are doing. And so I just want to get out of there, right? Once again, I was not really seeing much money coming from these rentals, like, you know, a few $100 here and there, but like with the cash that we would have to put out, you know, upfront with them and stuff, I just realized that was not the way that I was going to build wealth quickly. So, you know, kind of had a turning point like early twenty twenty three where me and my wife were just like, we need to get out of New York. Let's kind of go down, see if we can get a place down in Florida. We had some close friends who just moved down there. And we're like, let's just kind of like start fresh down there. And at the same time was when I wanted to really give wholesaling a start. So I said, hey. I'd give myself, like, a year to try this wholesaling stuff, see if it works out, move down to Florida, kind of take the the foot off the gas on buying rentals a little bit. So once again, wasn't really seeing the growth that I was hoping for.

Mike DeHaan: [6:58] Yeah. Well, I'm fascinated by this too because I didn't realize that you had moved down there so recently. And I know that you don't you live in, like, Southern Florida, like Tampa or something like that?

Brendan Chetuck: [7:08] So I'm in Orlando. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [7:10] You're in Orlando. Mhmm. But don't you do your business in, like, Pensacola?

Brendan Chetuck: [7:14] Yes. Yeah. So Pensacola, which is, like, six hours away. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [7:18] Why did you make that decision? I mean, because you were doing that from as long as I've known you Yeah. That you were doing deals over in that that part of the state.

Dylan Koch: [7:25] Yeah. And, like, I feel like Orlando is a investor friendly market too. So yeah. I'm curious.

Brendan Chetuck: [7:30] So it's actually pretty funny. So I started, like, marketing to the wholesaling before I actually moved down to Florida. So I did start in Orlando. I marketed there a little bit. And then I know you guys, you know, know Ryan Dossi, but I've listened to him, followed him, and I thought he invested in Pensacola. He might have just lived there. I still don't even fully know, but I heard him talking about Pensacola. So that was the reason I chose Pensacola as my second market. And it just happened I got my first deal in Pensacola and then just kind of, you know, kept building up that pipeline and stuff. And then I didn't even bother with Orlando anymore.

Mike DeHaan: [8:05] Funny. Yeah. He did he did live down there. His his wife's in the air force and was stationed there. I went when I was part of that group, I went to two meetups there in Pensacola. But his main his main business is in Indianapolis, though. Yeah. And so he he's had his his guy running that one for ages. But that's funny. I mean, that's like I would say that's a an interesting way to, like, pick a spot, but also I don't think that that's anything wrong with that. I mean, if you have a operator that you know is legit that is having success somewhere, I mean, everyone always wants to know, like, what market should I pick? Just listen to where people are already doing it and freaking go there. People always want to like do these big analysis of like these different markets. In my opinion, that's just an excuse to not get started. Like, just go find where someone that you know is good and isn't just b s ing you, is doing deals, figure out their business model, go there. And honestly, like, they'll probably be stoked to have someone to j b deals with or to do additional deals with. Like, I know I've made a lot of money in Spokane of people coming here and doing deals with us, and I think most will be the same. So that's interesting. So as you started that up, you said you were you already started sourcing deals. What was your your main source?

Mike DeHaan: [9:12] Were you, like, saying mail back then? Because you said you're still making $50 a year. I don't think you had a lot of extra money.

Brendan Chetuck: [9:18] Yeah. So I was pretty much doing every of the low cost marketing methods. So I really started with texting and, you know, my budget was probably under $1,000 at that time. So I mean, was very minimal what I was sending out, you know, and then I would cold call myself as well. Didn't really have much success with that, but I would try so still working. Right? So try and cold call whenever I wasn't, you know, working my w two job. But, yeah, it was really mainly testing, just sending out whatever I could. And I think that's part of the reason why it took me, like, six to eight months to close my first deal is because I didn't have the budget. So as, you know, like I said, a thousand bucks at most a month. But, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, still going through that each month, month in and month out, it it got enough leads to get snowball rolling.

Dylan Koch: [10:06] So in that beginning, Brendan, were you using a multiline dialer or you're just, like, literally typing in the numbers and calling people?

Brendan Chetuck: [10:13] Yeah. So I was using a multiline dialer. I don't know how people do the the hand dialing. Not worth it for me.

Dylan Koch: [10:20] And then the texting, any do you remember at all how many texts we were sending out per day by chance?

Brendan Chetuck: [10:26] I don't. It was probably a 100 a day at most. It was not a lot at all.

Dylan Koch: [10:32] Yeah. For and for texting, that is not that is not a lot.

Brendan Chetuck: [10:34] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [10:35] Yeah. So you're in, like, the just grind mode. I mean, the root of your whole backstory, though, man, is you did a lot of work.

Dylan Koch: [10:41] Like hustle or

Mike DeHaan: [10:42] hustle. Even way before

Mike DeHaan: [10:45] you got into the wholesaling, you're doing all that stuff to start buying properties. And I mean, that's a huge, I'd say testament to your character, because I would say the number one reason most people fail or never get started in not just this industry, but any industry is they're not willing to work hard. Right? And it's not I don't know. Like, nothing comes easy anymore. If anyone tells you it's going to you, they're probably trying to steal your

Brendan Chetuck: [11:06] money.

Dylan Koch: [11:06] Yeah. I'll sell you something.

Mike DeHaan: [11:07] Yeah. So how many deals are doing a month down there right now?

Brendan Chetuck: [11:10] Yeah. So right near right now, we'll average about two deals a month. We're at 12 right now, and we should have two more closed by the end of this month. I actually have closing today. Nice. So, yeah, on pace to do two a month this year.

Mike DeHaan: [11:23] Cool. And all wholesale?

Brendan Chetuck: [11:25] All wholesale. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [11:26] And what does that look like now as far as what's your main marketing methods? Is this still texting? Are you did you branch out to any other channels?

Brendan Chetuck: [11:33] Yeah. So it is mostly texting. I do have cold calling up and running now, but with the company right now, I'm not the one actually doing it. Yep. Starting to finally see some success with that. We've been doing that for about four months and the deal that we're closing today will be the third from cold calling, but I'm definitely seeing we have about two more from cold callers in escrow. I did do the direct mail last year. It just, I wasn't doing it enough. Wasn't spending enough money and so I wasn't seeing the return that I was looking for and just looking at my numbers, you know, it made more sense for me to dive into the texting a little bit more. So I have done the direct mail, just didn't have success. Like I said, I mean, of that was from my own fault, but so yeah, texting and cold calling right now mainly.

Mike DeHaan: [12:20] Yeah. I mean and once you find what works, just do more of it. Right? That's a big thing. It's a Alex Shimosi thing too is once you find what gives you success, you should do more of that thing and then you should do it better. And then once you literally can't do more of it or can't do any better, then you should do something new. So it makes perfect sense that you're going that route. And so with your business right now, you said you have a car, are you kind of wearing all hats? You're doing all the acquisition, doing all the lead follow-up? Or do you have a VA that's assisting with all that?

Brendan Chetuck: [12:50] Yeah. So I do still have a a pretty demanding w two as of right now. So I do have two VAs. One of them is actually one that was hired from the job posting that we did at KeyesCon last year.

Dylan Koch: [13:06] I love that.

Mike DeHaan: [13:07] Nice. That's awesome.

Brendan Chetuck: [13:08] And he is he's a lead manager who is now also submitting offers. And so he's kind of this hybrid between a lead manager and a acquisition manager. And then I also have a VA who handles all of my texting. And then, like I said, a third party cold calling company who they do all the managing of the cold callers and stuff like that.

Dylan Koch: [13:27] So do you know what your approximate overhead is per month?

Brendan Chetuck: [13:30] Yeah. It's a with all of that, including marketing, I mean, fluctuates a little bit, but on average, probably about $6.

Dylan Koch: [13:38] Okay. And then as far as all the deals you've done, you know what your revenue per deal is?

Brendan Chetuck: [13:42] Yeah. So it's not as high as I would like. I've actually talked to Mike about this a little bit. We're at about $8,500 of revenue a deal. So a little bit lower, I think, than, you know, some of the other people, but I've done some things to try and increase that. I do think my price point in Pensacola is very low. So, you know, that's one of the things I'm struggling with a little bit right now, but, you know, there's not all too much room to grow on that price per deal there or revenue

Mike DeHaan: [14:10] Yeah. Per

Dylan Koch: [14:10] It's hard in lower price markets to get huge spreads. And you just kinda kinda make them for it with volume.

Mike DeHaan: [14:16] Yeah. Well, and also too, there's this rise in the more competitive markets. Like, I would pretty much all Florida in this. See I see a lot in Texas too, where we have a couple of virtual markets where we've, you we've done a couple of virtual attempt to call virtual market. We haven't had one that's been incredibly successful down there. But there's this movement towards people doing this, like, super high volume, like, low fee wholesale business, where they'll just get, like, shit tons of contracts and their drop rate is disgusting. But they're just, like, trying to peel off all these things for, like, $3.04, $5,000 fees, and they just do massive volume. It sounds like a logistical nightmare on the TC side.

Dylan Koch: [14:53] That sounds awful, honestly.

Mike DeHaan: [14:55] But, like, there's a whole thing with that. Like, I know a guy who who lives down in in Florida. He's a GoBundance guy. And he they do, like, 350 to 400 deals a year, but they're all like that. He has, like, 20, like, in house cold callers, and literally, they do this one call close style of real estate where they just get a shit ton of contracts, and they lock it up, and then they, you know, try to, like, just wholesale these things.

Mike DeHaan: [15:21] Like, they'll they'll wholesale deals for, like, 500 or a thousand dollars.

Dylan Koch: [15:23] Okay. So I'm gonna put context to that. They're so they're making about 1,000,000 a year. Right? 300 to 350

Mike DeHaan: [15:29] Mhmm.

Dylan Koch: [15:29] With those kind of spreads?

Mike DeHaan: [15:31] They're making it was like 1.2, 1.3. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [15:33] Okay. So last year, did top line 600 k, and I'm one person. So that's 60% of their revenue with one twentieth of the staff.

Mike DeHaan: [15:40] Yeah. It's it's it's wild. But the thing that's challenging though, right, Dylan, is that person is a competitor to you. And if, you know, you make the same amount of money for sure, but like if it was a, I would say like a truly competitive scenario, they would beat you because they would

Dylan Koch: [15:54] Yeah. No, I mean, totally. They can offer more for the property because they are willing to take less profit. Like, that's actually my thing with wholesaling, not as much, but flipping. Lot of people are willing to take 15 to 20 k on a flip. And to me, that's just too risky. And a lot of times because that money could go away real quick. I don't wanna go off on a little side tangent. Sorry.

Brendan Chetuck: [16:11] Yeah. No. No. No. But to that point, though, I feel like they might win short term, but long term, they might be out of business in a year. So, you know, if you're still there, then after they they're out of business, I mean, you could just scoop in those deals because they're not even offering anymore.

Mike DeHaan: [16:26] Yeah. Which is almost what happened to this guy. So he was selling everything to hedge funds. Right? And then when that dried up, he got real, real lean really fast.

Dylan Koch: [16:34] Yep. Along those same lines, Brendan, how did the I don't know if this affected you all that much, but there was a big crackdown, obviously, on SMS with regulations and stuff. How was that transition for you? Because I know when I was doing it, you know, I was using launch control. They first were like, stop. Like dead in the tracks. And then it wasn't until recently till we kind of fired it kind of back up in the past six months or so.

Brendan Chetuck: [16:56] Yeah. So I was pretty lucky. I actually was not using launch control for the first, you know, year and a half of doing texting. So I was using our AI reply and they did not have that issue. So I'm still able to continue the texting. I definitely did see a drop in like delivery rates though. And the one thing that they do as a software that's pretty annoying is they will suspend your account if your delivery rate drops. So it's like they'll suspend it for the rest of the day and then you have to pick back up tomorrow.

Dylan Koch: [17:25] So would you have to like change your templates that we'll be sending out or like is what was the way around that?

Brendan Chetuck: [17:30] So the spin tax thing where it's like, hey, you have these three words in a bracket and

Dylan Koch: [17:35] it

Brendan Chetuck: [17:36] sends out a different word each time. Aria replied to that a little bit differently. So we had to like implement that into an it took a while, like a lot of YouTube videos reaching out to customer support, changing these templates, at the end of day, just testing to see what it was. But, yeah, a lot of manipulating those those templates and seeing what worked and what wasn't flagged.

Dylan Koch: [17:57] Logistical question. Your VA is doing the the texting for you. What is her qualifying process to send that lead on to you? And, like, what does that look like? Does it go from REI reply or whatever it is to REI simply, whatever CRM you're using?

Brendan Chetuck: [18:09] Yeah. So I have just started using launch control too. So we are trying to move away from our air reply because of that exact issue. But yeah. So the texter will, you know, communicate with the lead and really it's, you know, if they raise their hand, say that they're interested in selling. And then if there is some sort of motivation, right, they need to, you know, sell it fast or if the price point seems to be relatively good compared to the Zillow, right, like a 70%, they're asking, like, 70%. It's kind of those the four pillars that everybody knows about price, timeline, condition. I forget the motivation or whatever, but you know, they're looking for at least like two of those and then they'll take that, they'll import that into Podio and then my lead manager will actually then pick up the phone column, get any remaining details. And then at that point, I'm still the one doing the final due diligence, running the numbers. And I'll typically give that same lead manager the number that we have to be at and let him make that offer.

Dylan Koch: [19:09] Nice. That's awesome.

Mike DeHaan: [19:10] That's awesome.

Dylan Koch: [19:11] I'm not even to the giving up the offers part yet, so I love that.

Mike DeHaan: [19:14] Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

Mike DeHaan: [19:16] I hope you guys are enjoying this episode. We are seriously trying to grow this podcast so that the voice of what it really takes to grow a real estate business becomes kind of the norm versus the guru get rich quick b s that everyone is fed on a daily basis. With so many podcasts out there, it is hard for us to get discovered on our own. So a quick ask, please share this episode on your social media accounts. Be that a real story, whatever. And if you tag me at Mike underscore invest, then I will give you a follow and I will also send you a DM so that we can have a little chat about your business and any ways I could potentially help you grow. So again, please share it on your socials. Tag me at Mike underscore invests, that's with an s at the end, and I'll follow you and we can have a little DM and convo about your business. And maybe I

Mike DeHaan: [20:01] can help you grow a

Mike DeHaan: [20:02] little bit. Or you could just say what's up to that'd be awesome. But appreciate everyone, and thanks so much for helping us grow.

Mike DeHaan: [20:08] So, you know, doing all this while you manage your w two and everything else, how do you, I guess, like, manage your time with that? I mean, you also got kids. Well, you got a kid, got a marriage. Like, you gotta do all these sales calls yourself. And then afterwards, I wanna also know how you're doing your due diligence on this stuff virtually because I know that's a big question people always ask.

Brendan Chetuck: [20:27] Yeah. So the time is definitely a little tough. This year, specifically the last few months, I've definitely been spending a little bit less time and a little bit more time kind of with my family, focusing on like my health and stuff like that. But I mean, at the end the day, it's just kind of fitting it in wherever I can. So I wake up, you know, at like five, 05:30, do my, you know, workouts and everything like that. And then I'll usually hop on for like an hour and a half to two hours before my job to kind of get things in place for the day. And then being able to delegate the testing and the lead managing has been huge for me. I mean, that's been, I don't even know where I would be if I did not start to do that. And then throughout the day, right, if there's fires that need to be put out or whatever, I work from home, so I have flexibility to where I can take calls and stuff like that. And then at the end of the day, kind of same thing, wrap up my w two, I'll put in like an hour or something and then really come like seven ish, I'm trying to shut off as much as possible. But if things come up, you know, I'm still slacking or emailing from my phone and stuff. So it's kind of a never ending grind, honestly.

Dylan Koch: [21:34] So before we get to the follow-up part of like your due diligence, and I know the audience will want hear this, I want to answer what is preventing you from maybe leaving that w two to do this full time? Because I think if Brandon had forty hours a week to work on this business, I honestly think you'd kill it.

Brendan Chetuck: [21:52] Yeah. So, it's a good question. To be completely honest, so we do have a little bit of debt that I would like paid off before I could, you know, kind of make the jump just to make sure I have all my ducks in a row. At the end of the day, I think it's more of a mental thing than it is anything else. So at this point, you know, I'm making more money doing the wholesaling stuff than I am at my W-two, you know, granted obviously there's some additional costs that go into that and stuff like that. But I think part of it is mental, part of it is if I can, you know, pay off some of the debts that I have. And then I think I would really like to be in a mode where I'm taking home 6 figures from the wholesale, and I think I'll I'll do it. But the the mental part is definitely the part that I have to work on the most, I think.

Mike DeHaan: [22:38] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that and that's a that's a you thing to work on. Right? Because I agree with Dylan a 100%. Like, especially you have the the hustle factor. Like, I think that if you were all in on this, it wouldn't be a, you know, making taking home 6 figures. It would be taking home multi 6 figures, 400, $500,000 a year, like, relatively quickly. I mean, because you already know what to do. You just need to do more of

Brendan Chetuck: [23:00] it.

Dylan Koch: [23:01] More of it.

Mike DeHaan: [23:01] Yeah. Yeah. Like your but your your main limitation is time, you know, and you're even making money. And so of the resources that exist in business, which is money, time, and energy, you have the money piece okay right now and ready to invest. You're lacking the time and energy parts because you have other commitments that are taking your time. So, you know, and you can obviously try to hire and do different things, but that's a different skill set. I would say it's probably not the right time for you to do that quite yet. So regarding the due diligence though in this in this virtual market, how are you handling all that? Because also too, I imagine there's some coordination that goes on. Like, that's more time and energy that needs to go towards that too.

Brendan Chetuck: [23:38] I guess because I started that way, I haven't really even noticed that it's a bit of a struggle. A lot of the times what I'll do is I will initially try and get pictures from the owner and they're actually pretty you know, I would say it's like 60% of the time they won't, but 4040% of the time they will. If they can get decent pictures, typically, I can give a pretty solid offer on that. I do have some boots on the ground in Pensacola. I have a guy who actually goes and takes pictures for me for free, which is pretty sweet. But if he's ever in a pinch, I do have, you know, I I do have some people that I can pay as well to go take some pictures. And then it's really just getting those pictures, you know, doing as good of a kind of rough estimate that I can get on rehab as possible, and then just doing kind of the typical calculation of 75% ARV minus repairs and stuff. And then I think another thing that's helped is because I've been in the market so long that I know what some of the buyers are looking for. So, like, I have certain people. If it's not like a complete teardown and it's like a three one and I have it, you know, under 40,000, I have buyers who will buy at 60. So a lot of that has come with, like, repetition where I know certain buyers where they're at and if I can get it under that price point, I'll know I'll make a good spread.

Mike DeHaan: [24:57] Yeah. It's an underrated part of the business, honestly. And it's something that people always want to, I don't know, shortcut. Right? Or, like, they look at JV ing or using, like, best lift platforms, you that which they can help get you started. But there's no better networking tool in real estate than having deals and opportunity. Like, you kinda need to eat it on your first ones, which I'm sure you probably learned. And then once you have those relationships, it's much easier to get stuff done.

Dylan Koch: [25:24] So are you sending out your buyers on your first initial clinical walkthrough to some of these or after you get these pictures and you can kinda get a gauge on where you need to be on price?

Brendan Chetuck: [25:33] Yeah. Usually, it's after the pictures. Usually, for the most part, I won't send out buyers until I actually have it under contract. Once again, there are some situations where I've worked with buyers, they're trusted, and maybe I give trust a little too much. Right? But some situations, I'll let them go and walk it and let me know where they're at. Most of the time, it's it's after I have it under contract.

Mike DeHaan: [25:54] Have you have you been bit by that yet by, like, sending people out early?

Brendan Chetuck: [25:58] Honestly, like, not really. And the way that I look at it, like, if they bite me, yeah, it sucks, but then that person, you know, they're not getting any more business for me, anyone that I know. So, I mean, at risk reward, I have not really gotten bit by it too bad yet.

Mike DeHaan: [26:13] I would say it's people always get overly concerned about that. I would say it's pretty rare.

Brendan Chetuck: [26:18] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [26:18] Because everyone understands that it's a small industry. Uh-huh. Right? I mean, it does happen. I mean, we had we have a another scale member who's had some some of his buyers in his market completely screw him over, and he keeps going back to them for some reason. I don't know why. He has, like, weird Stockholm syndrome thing being held hostage by them, I guess. But, yeah, I mean, you know, it's sometimes that's the

Mike DeHaan: [26:40] most efficient way to do it, especially if you're virtual. That's why I'm fascinated. Why is this guy taking pictures

Mike DeHaan: [26:45] for you for free? Is he just like a creep and he, like, wants to, like, walk into these people's houses or what?

Brendan Chetuck: [26:50] Yeah. Honestly, I still to this day do not know. My guess is

Mike DeHaan: [26:54] He's probably, like, going in there and, like, stealing the seller's panties, bro. You're probably, like, putting a fucking pervert in this guy's house.

Brendan Chetuck: [27:00] Hey. Whatever works, man. Whatever works. No. I think he's looking at it, like, at one of these times, he's going to have a flip. I think he's only done like one flip, but I think that's his goal. I don't really know. I don't question it. He keeps going though.

Dylan Koch: [27:14] So I was gonna ask you what your best hire is, but I can even consider him a hire because you don't pay him.

Brendan Chetuck: [27:19] I know. I'll send him like a Christmas card or something with a gift card because I feel bad. I'm like, dude, just take my money. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [27:25] That's weird. I'm fascinated by this individual. I can't get anyone to do anything for free, like,

Brendan Chetuck: [27:32] ever. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [27:32] I can't even get a contractor to give me a bid for free anymore. They wanna get paid for that. Like, it's just outrageous.

Brendan Chetuck: [27:38] It's not just like one. He is probably done over 20 plus properties. So it's not just like a one time thing either.

Mike DeHaan: [27:45] He's definitely, like, doing something creepy in this house. So I'm just gonna I'm just gonna expect that that's what's happening. But, you know, like you said, whatever works. Awesome. So overall, what do you think is, like, the been the best system that you've integrated as you've, like, looked to balance your domain w two with your family with, you know, growing a reasonably successful business? What's been kinda like the key system for you?

Brendan Chetuck: [28:05] Yeah. So I think in going back to the best hire as well, the the best hire for sure has been that lead manager. I wish I did that earlier and I applaud you guys at KeyesCon because that was literally the thing that made me do it, but that has 100 changed my my business. And then on top of that, I think I've implemented like a a scorecard, I guess you can say, and it's just, you know, only to track the KPIs for my two VAs and the cold callers. But so I look at that like every day and I think it, you know, allows me to kind of manage from kind of like a eagle's point of view where I can see what they've done yesterday. I can see kind of what's, you know, on par for today and just make sure that everybody's doing their work without, you know, constantly messaging them like, you know, did you make those calls today? Did you do this today? You do that today. So I would say that's probably been my best system.

Dylan Koch: [28:58] What are you looking for in terms of calls per day?

Brendan Chetuck: [29:01] Yeah. So for my lead manager at about a 140 to a 150, I want a 150 and he hovers right above that or right about that, I should say. And I will ask, is that what do you guys look at with that, Mike, in terms of lead manager calls?

Mike DeHaan: [29:17] You're working in your CRM? Correct. Yeah. So, like, our lead managers will probably hit like, they're hitting a lot, they will answer 70 to 80 a day. Okay. On average working hours.

Dylan Koch: [29:28] Mine's closer to yours, Brennan.

Mike DeHaan: [29:30] Is it? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [29:31] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [29:31] I would say the main difference, though, with ours is they also do, like, underwriting and, like, sort of additional, I would say, information gathering work as well. So they're not just sitting on the phones the whole time. They have stuff that they do in between where they're updating notes and they're adding Zillow values, they're receiving all the initial calls, and they actually listen to the calls from CallPorter and make sure that things are all verified on there. And so those things, like, kind of bounce off the numbers.

Dylan Koch: [30:01] Is your LM Brennan using a dialer inside the podium?

Brendan Chetuck: [30:05] No. So he he he is just going one by one through there.

Dylan Koch: [30:09] Okay.

Brendan Chetuck: [30:10] And then he'll even go into like I said, REI Reply is the texting platform that I use, which used to also be my CRM. So he'll even go into there sometimes and and call through some of the lists that we have in there if he's, you know, kind of went through all of his daily leads.

Dylan Koch: [30:27] How many leads do you think I'm getting off traffic. How many leads do think are in your CRM right now?

Brendan Chetuck: [30:31] I actually I don't know that question.

Dylan Koch: [30:33] Going through a 150 calls a day is a lot.

Brendan Chetuck: [30:36] Yeah. There's definitely a decent amount. So I've started to open up the qualifications a little bit. So at this point, really kind of anyone who raises their hand, I'm telling them to put into our CRM because I would rather have my lead manager hit them once a month or, you know, once every two months, just get them in the system. And then at some point down the line, we might be in the right place at the right time.

Dylan Koch: [31:00] Sense. And then are they using some kind of tax function on the cadence on how to follow-up every couple days, every couple weeks, etcetera?

Brendan Chetuck: [31:08] Yeah. This is something that we're we're still working out a little bit, but really so we have, like, hot leads that came in that we haven't contacted yet. So, like, cold callers or the put them into our CRM and our lead manager hasn't gone to him. He's hitting those every day. Yep. Hot ones that he has contacted, but is still either waiting on some additional information or whatever the case may be. Anything hot, he's hitting once a day. Warm leads, it's really like once a week. Cold leads, once a month. And then like I said, sometimes he'll go through some of these leads where it's like, hey. They were retail once a month or I would say that's pretty much cadence.

Dylan Koch: [31:45] So is he disqualifying for you too, sounds like?

Brendan Chetuck: [31:48] Yes. But it's right now, it's really more of like a they sold the house or they explicitly told us to take them off their list. Other than that, we're really just keeping them in, a super cold follow-up.

Dylan Koch: [32:02] No. That makes sense.

Mike DeHaan: [32:03] Cool. I mean and that's a huge part of the business. Right? I think that gets neglected is somebody opted to have a conversation with you at some point. And most people, especially doing intro target marketing, will need to sell, and it's all just about being in front of them when they decide to make that decision.

Dylan Koch: [32:17] Yep.

Mike DeHaan: [32:17] So awesome. Well, tons of great information, Brennan. Congrats success you've had too, especially with balancing the the new arrival of your child. Like, that definitely makes things more challenging. I was just just trying to find which episode you came on to tell your crazy story for the the little deal deep dive. I feel we called those deal case study that we did a little while back. But we're gonna see if you have any more good stories. Because as we go into our end of show questions here, the first question that we always ask is what is your craziest real estate story? The one that you were on before. We'll put a link to it in the show notes of that. So the one that you told last time was your very first story. Do you have another crazy story on top of that that you would like to share today?

Brendan Chetuck: [32:58] Yeah. So it's fine. I was actually thinking about this question. And to date, I still think that is the craziest one, which coming full circle, that person actually gave me a referral lead, which I'm under contract with right now.

Mike DeHaan: [33:11] No way. That's crazy.

Brendan Chetuck: [33:12] I would say with the virtual stuff, it definitely makes it less crazy because, know, not seeing these people in in person. The one that I can think about was this this person. I I got the lead. The lead came in. You know, they said that they're interested in selling the house. We came to an agreement on a number, which is about like 65,000, and I was gonna make a really good spread on this, at least like $20. So I go to send them the agreement. I realized that the person I'm talking with is a different person, person on title, like different last name and everything. So I'm like, God, that's a little weird. You know, whatever though, who's this Catherine lady? He's like, Oh, it's my, as we always said, sister or wife, whatever. But he winds up getting a an ID, photo ID of this Catherine person. I get in touch with her. So I'm like, send it out to them, sign it, gonna put $2,000 into title company. And then all of a sudden they're like, no, we want like $200 cash out to us. So I'm like, oh, you know, we don't really do that. Like, goes through title company. And they were just super, you know, like persistent with wanting this $200. So in my head, I'm like, I know this is a scam, but like, yeah, I might be able to make like $30. So like, maybe I'll entertain it.

Brendan Chetuck: [34:29] So I I asked her for the Cash App and I'm literally going to send this Cash App and there's like errors and everything. So I'm like, no, this isn't real, whatever. I I tell them, was like, guys, I tried to send you this Cash App. By the way, I do not recommend to anybody. I was okay with losing no money, but it didn't work. So they gave me this random person who I've never heard of random name. Oh, cash up this person. So I'm like, okay, no, that's not happening. We go back and forth. I tell them, hey, I I put the deposit in the title. They call title. They see the deposit title. I've worked with title companies, so they kind of like back me up with it. And then they start asking for it again. I'm like, no. Maybe I'll I'll do a 100 this time. They're like, okay. Do it through an egift card. So I'm like, okay. I'm not doing this. And then all of a sudden, you know, they start getting super, like, hostile, like telling me that they're gonna shoot me in the face if I step foot on the property, like all this stuff, like just threatening me, you know, all these different types of way they're gonna kill me and stuff. So I'm like, this is getting a little bit crazy here. So at that point, just kind of stopped dealing with them, got the deposit back from the title company. He kept trying to call the title company saying that we broke the contract and he wanted that money and stuff. And so eventually just blocked him and kinda that was it.

Dylan Koch: [35:50] So you never knew if you're actually talking to the actual seller or not?

Brendan Chetuck: [35:53] So I don't it was interesting because, like, they both sent me their IDs with the legitimate names on them, everything on them. Like, seemed like it truly was the person, but they had no intention of actually selling the house. They're just gonna take the money and run. But I don't know. I still don't know to this day.

Dylan Koch: [36:13] You should follow back up with them. You may have to try to get a new lead.

Mike DeHaan: [36:17] For sure. You should have clouded title just because.

Brendan Chetuck: [36:21] So I I threatened to do that, and then that was when they started threatening me. And I was like, I don't think this is worth it at this point. So

Mike DeHaan: [36:29] Yeah. Yeah. Then it gets tough. Like, stuff like that is so common. I don't think I even knew what deed theft was until, like, a year ago. And now we have seen so many instances of people with false identities, like, doing all this shady stuff trying to, you know, steal properties. What the most common scenario is is if it's like a junkie that owns the house and, like, they go to jail and their friends like, I could fucking be Steve and sell the house and steal his money. Right? Because they like they were like doing meth in the house together and, like, he knows the one guy's gone. And so he, like, pretends, especially in the Pacific Northwest where everyone looks the freaking same, where they all have, like, the same haircut and the same facial hair, like, it gets out of control super quick. We've had some that got pretty dang close until they started doing some due diligence on people, and they I learned that they actually do check jail records. I don't if it was everywhere, but here when they pull title reports.

Dylan Koch: [37:21] Oh, yeah. I didn't realize that. I had someone fake a deed out of their dead mom's name into their own name, visited, go through probate, and try to sell it. Also, I've had this happen a lot recently on the same subject. So many older people, maybe this is the way they used to do it, think that EMD goes to them personally, and not like the title company. They're like, give me the EMD. I'm like, no. That's not how this works. Like, you're just gonna run with it no matter what. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [37:44] That's that's a good question. Hey, baby boomers that learned how to listen to podcasts. Is that how it used to be how it works? Us millennials over here are freaking clueless, and there's a bunch of you guys out there asking stupid questions. So vouch for yourselves.

Dylan Koch: [37:57] So, yeah. So, Brendan, my other question for you. If you go back to the very beginning, New York New York, Brendan, what's one thing you would do differently?

Brendan Chetuck: [38:05] Yeah. So, I mean, this is what you guys preach, but I I would have avoided buying rentals. Not that I completely regret it. They they have, you know, appreciated pretty significantly and stuff like that. But I think if I would have started going after the active income four years ago as opposed to, you know, two years ago, I'd be in a a much better place right now.

Dylan Koch: [38:28] Do you have ambitions to buy more buy and holds eventually?

Brendan Chetuck: [38:32] Eventually. Honestly, right now, like, even looking at so I would still buy where I have my other rentals, and I've had a few leads come in and I'm looking at the numbers with the interest rates and I just can't pencil things right now. So currently, I'd rather just funnel the money back into the wholesaling business and continue to grow this. And then, you know, when opportunities come up, I'll I'll jump on them. But in the future, for sure, as of right now, I'm okay sitting on the sidelines a little bit and just stockpiling some cash.

Mike DeHaan: [39:03] So serious question. What's your current cash flow from those rentals?

Brendan Chetuck: [39:09] So yeah. Let me think about this. They actually

Mike DeHaan: [39:14] Net net.

Brendan Chetuck: [39:15] Yeah. Net net net. That's a good question. So they do pretty well. Our one house is a cash cow. We've added some bedrooms. So it's 10 bedrooms getting about $650 a bedroom and our mortgage is $2. So that one does a decent amount. I would say probably 1,500 to $2,000 net, net, net. But once again, that's being very active because we rent by the room Sure. Which I'm realizing, especially I'm still managing those. It's becoming more of a headache than it is worth the $1,500 a month.

Mike DeHaan: [39:51] Professional hustler. And yeah. And then what's your what's your equity in all that?

Brendan Chetuck: [39:55] Yeah. So the equity, I do have partners in some of them. So it's probably $202,100 to $2.50 ish after taking out the yeah. After taking out the the equity partners. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [40:11] I mean, would it make sense for you if you look at, your total, I would say, potential earnings, right, your own opportunity cost to get cash out of that, pay off your debt and or put money in the bank and then just go all in in your wholesaling business, like give yourself a nice cushion?

Brendan Chetuck: [40:28] Yeah. So we actually thought about that. So we we talked with a realtor to sell because we have one single family up there, which is one that me and my wife lived in and are now renting it out. It's definitely something we're going to explore next year as well. Because we've thought about that, that house we'd probably walk away with 60 ks in two and a half years. And like you said, I mean, we can pay off some of the debt that we have, stack some money, have a nice cushion, and then ultimately, I think that would help me leave my job a little bit quicker.

Dylan Koch: [40:58] When did you buy that house?

Brendan Chetuck: [41:00] 2021.

Dylan Koch: [41:02] And then how long did you live in it?

Brendan Chetuck: [41:04] We bought it in yeah. 2022, actually. And we this is one of the things if I can go back in time, would have redone this. So we moved out about four months before we hit that two months or that two year mark, whatever that

Dylan Koch: [41:18] So my understanding of this, by the way, is you still qualify for the for for the tax benefit. It's just a prorated a little bit.

Brendan Chetuck: [41:24] It's prorated. Right? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [41:25] Yeah.

Brendan Chetuck: [41:26] That's what my CPA said as well. So I still think it would help pretty significantly. Yeah. We're like four months out of that two year mark.

Dylan Koch: [41:33] Well, if I'm making a vote, I still think you should sell it. Quit your w two, and you'd be looking a lot prettier twelve to eighteen months from now.

Brendan Chetuck: [41:39] Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

Mike DeHaan: [41:41] It's an underrated way that people that have been doing what you've been doing and accumulating assets and hustling can achieve, quote, unquote, financial freedom or financial flexibility faster, going on business is just give yourself a freaking lump of cash. It's like an insurance policy. Like, there's always this view that financial freedom needs to look like money coming into your bank account every single month. But you can also, like, achieve it if you just have several years of living expenses that are just sitting there that you can use, and you can invest some of that. You can use that and make more money a lot faster. But I don't know. I I feel like people get addicted to the dopamine of, like, the paycheck, and so they don't like to think about things way. So, anyways, we're on a tangent, though, but, I think I agree with Dylan. Right on, man. Well, lots of great information today. Where can people find you, follow you, reach out to you?

Brendan Chetuck: [42:28] Instagram would probably be the best. So it's, b chetuk, which is b c h e t u c k, and that's pretty much it. Facebook, Brendan Chetuck, but I'm not doing too much on Facebook these days.

Mike DeHaan: [42:40] Cool. Right on. Well, guys, go and shoot Brandon a follow. He is doing some awesome stuff down

Mike DeHaan: [42:45] there in Florida. In case

Mike DeHaan: [42:47] you can't tell, he's a normal guy just like you. Just he probably works harder because I'll be honest, he fucking works harder than me. So he definitely is getting after it down there. Awesome. Thanks for coming

Mike DeHaan: [42:56] on the show. Everybody, please share this with anyone who likes a good hustle story wants to know what a budding real estate millionaire looks like,

Mike DeHaan: [43:05] or might get some good tips for their own

Mike DeHaan: [43:06] business they're building themselves. Appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you guys next week.

Dylan Koch: [43:09] That was

Brendan Chetuck: [43:10] a good one.

Dylan Koch: [43:10] See you, Brandon.