Beating your Competition with Better Business Branding

Mike DeHaan: [0:02] On Air Brands. So, you know, if you're competing with a bunch of people, bunch of other businesses, and, you know, they go into all the websites, and then they go on their social media afterwards, and you're the only one that they're seeing over and over and over again, they're gonna be more likely to do business with you because you're gonna be fresh on their mind. You know? It's just like how if you're like, I wanna buy a new tent, whatever, and you go and you look it up, and all of a sudden, you're getting hit with ads for that tent from Amazon and everything else.

Speaker 2: [0:30] Welcome to the collecting keys real estate investing podcast with your host, Mike DeHaan and Dan Austin. From wins, losses, horror stories, and tactics for optimizing your business, Mike and Dan take a real uncensored deep dive into the ins and outs of running a full time real estate investment and wholesaling business.

Mike DeHaan: [0:54] What's going on, guys? Welcome to episode 40 of the Collecting Keys Real Estate Investing Podcast. Hola. We're gonna be Hola.

Dan Austin: [1:02] I know how you say it. Hola. Yes. In Spain. Spanish. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [1:07] That that's you're very you're very cultured. We're back after a little bit of a recording hiatus. I've been traveling for the last two weeks in a bit. So we're in in Spain for a wedding, and and I'm glad that Dan has been rehearsing Spanish for me to come back, making me making me feel at home because, know, after two weeks in Spain, I'm now a local. I think that's that's how people tend to treat places like that.

Dan Austin: [1:28] You did. I always love the the episode of The Office where Michael Scott comes back with, the little dreadlock in his hair from, a week at that sandals in Jamaica. I feel like that's what you came back like. Yeah. Like, little bit of a tan, speaking Spanish.

Mike DeHaan: [1:41] I'm just trying to blend in, man. I'll but I'll I'll I'll be honest, though. When we were because we because we were pretty, like, sort of in the sticks and spanks. We went down there for a wedding. My uncle's marrying a local Spanish lady in this town that's, like, kinda off the beaten path. So most places you go over there, people speak English. Like, know, we're in Barcelona for a little bit. That's, like, a very, you sort of international people, lots of English being spoken. We went to this little town, Antakira, and not a lot of English at all. You know? And, like, a lot of the family on her side only spoke Spanish, which I kinda felt bad about because, like, they wanted to have a conversation with us, we just couldn't. But Oh, no. You know, you start to pick up, like, little things, and, you start just, like, saying words in Spanish even though we're only for a couple weeks. And on the way back, we, you know, we did a little bit of a stopover in London. And, I mean, it took me three or four transactions at, like, bars and stuff to not say, like, grassy ass to people. You know? It's just it becomes ingrained so You know? Are you the guy that are you the guy

Dan Austin: [2:39] that goes to Azteca in Spokane here and says, like, he starts speaking Spanish?

Mike DeHaan: [2:44] Well, yeah. I'm I'm just trying to be, you know, respectful. Culturally sensitive to the high school

Dan Austin: [2:49] kid that's your server there. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [2:51] That has never met a Spanish speaking person in his life. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [2:55] Oh, man. No. That's that's interesting, though. Like, I I that's the one one of the languages, like, Spanish that I think in like, I envision myself my my life learning because it is a tran super translatable across multiple countries.

Mike DeHaan: [3:09] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [3:09] Italian is very similar to to Spanish and all that sort of stuff. And so I'm like, that's the one I should learn. I've heard it's easy. And then I could go to Mexico and, you know, order beers. Well, then you could

Mike DeHaan: [3:18] hear what all, like, the people at the hotels are saying about you. Exactly. You know? Exactly. But, no. It was good, though. Good to, get away for a couple weeks. You know, I was been still recovering from the jet lag. I've I've been back for four days now, but, like, that jump across the pond always kinda wears on you. But, yeah, it was good, and we had a, you know, really good time. Super fun weddings, traditional Spanish weddings. So, know, the ceremony was at, like, nine, and dinner was at, like, 10:30. And then the party went from, like, 11:30 to 4AM. But at at that point, you know, we were all kinda acclimated to that sort of time schedule that they all live on over there. So even my parents, you know, my my dad's in his mid seventies, and they were still partying at 02:30 in the morning, man. So I was quite impressed eventually.

Dan Austin: [4:06] The only way I can make that work I'm trying to do the mental math in my head. Was it, like, nine, ten, ten hour, nine hour difference over there?

Mike DeHaan: [4:11] Yeah. Something like that. Nine, I don't know.

Dan Austin: [4:13] Man, that's the only way I can

Mike DeHaan: [4:15] make that work if

Dan Austin: [4:15] the math works out. I there's no way I would be partying at 02:30 in the morning.

Mike DeHaan: [4:19] Yeah. I mean, you would that. Would adjust to it pretty quick though. I mean, because I guess, like, even if you wanna go to dinner there, like, when we were out in Barcelona, like, the second or third night, we're looking to place to go for dinner, and, like, a third of the place is opened at eight. And if you went there at eight, there was nobody there. And a lot of places didn't even open till nine or 09:30.

Dan Austin: [4:39] That's amazing.

Mike DeHaan: [4:40] You know? It's like the doors are locked. And and, like, we we were out and, you know, a couple nights, it was like 01:30, 02:00 in morning. There's people out pushing their kids in strollers. Kids are, like, running around doing shit. That's just

Dan Austin: [4:50] how it operates. Damn, You can't be doing that in The States. You get shot.

Mike DeHaan: [4:54] I know. Right? Yeah. People will, like, you know, fear abusing your child. So yeah. And I was it was good. Super fun experience. Yeah. That's cool. And I I was, like, just getting out. And it was also interesting as well too because, you know, you're flying over there, all the COVID stuff, the airlines, like, you have to do all these tests. You have to, like, get this app, get this QR code. We literally landed in Barcelona, dude. And there's, like, there's, like, oh, you need to go this way to get your COVID thing checked. And there's literally just a guy standing there. It's, like, pointing where the battery's image is just, like, going like this. Didn't even didn't even, like, look at a single thing. And I was like, well, that Really? Yeah. Didn't didn't even look at it. Oh, man. You just, like, sort of showed him your phone. He's like, yep. You're fine. Go for it. Didn't scan it. Didn't do any of the stuff they were supposed to do. And then then over there, you know, no masks, no anything, no COVID protocols. Like, the only only protocol they had is if you're in, like, a taxi, you're supposed to wear a mask, but all the drivers were like, oh, my windows are tinted. Don't worry about it.

Dan Austin: [5:53] Is is COVID still a thing? I mean, I've kind of forgotten about it. Like, it for a while, was, like, looming. It's like, oh, man. They're gonna make us mask up again. In international travel, they kinda talked about it, but it sounds like it's, like, not really a concern. Like, if there's another if there's, like, another wave of COVID, we're just gonna be like, whatever, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [6:11] Yeah. Well, I mean, also difference over there, main main Europe and The UK, the vaccination rate's, like, wicked high. It's, like, ninety seven percent. So they're just I don't think

Dan Austin: [6:20] that matters, though. I mean,

Mike DeHaan: [6:21] it definitely does. I mean, like, people that I know that have had their shots that have gotten sick, they definitely get better way better than those

Dan Austin: [6:28] Oh, like recovery. Right? It's not gonna stop the

Mike DeHaan: [6:30] spread kind

Dan Austin: [6:30] of rate that we're recovering.

Mike DeHaan: [6:31] Gonna stop it. But, like, so I there there was a wedding. One of my college friends got married while I was gone. I missed his wedding to go to my uncle's wedding in, Spain instead. And, a bunch of people got sick there, and my friends that had gotten their shot were better in, like, forty eight hours, and other people were wrecked for, like, a week and a half. So something there. But I haven't had COVID in a long time, so I'm pretty sure it's gone. See, I never got it. I'm just not it's not as cool as you, I guess. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [6:56] You gotta have it, dude. I I I I felt like I'm missing out at this point. I still can't smell right.

Mike DeHaan: [7:01] That was, like, two

Dan Austin: [7:02] years ago. A year ago.

Mike DeHaan: [7:03] I mean, but that that's from all the fumes I used to breathe in and out there. Yeah. The hopping days. It's a bit of brain damage.

Dan Austin: [7:09] Yeah. It's fine. Well, while you're gone, the business didn't stop. We still kinda conducted business as usual, got contracts signed.

Mike DeHaan: [7:16] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [7:17] Buyers are being a little weird. That's that's kinda interesting.

Mike DeHaan: [7:21] Yeah. I was talking to one of our main competitors here in in Spokane yesterday, and they were saying that's, like, moving product right now is just weird, like, super weird. And, I mean, we've seen it with some of our competitors I don't necessarily talk to, but I see the dispo emails doing real shady stuff as well. I mean, one of one of them had, like, a $65,000 price drop on a deal they sent out three weeks ago. It's like so now you're either screwing the seller or you were trying to be real dirty on that dispo if you have a and it was only, like, a $200,000 house. It's like That's a lot. That's a huge percentage. Yeah. That's a huge percentage on the deal. Right? It's a 30%. Right. So, you know, they're doing that. And then they sent out another one I saw. It'd funny if they listen to this because I'll know who they are now. That they're trying to dispo for, like, $1.79. And they were trying to dispo for $1.99, like, three weeks ago. And I checked the records. They actually bought it for, like, $1.76. They're trying to sell for $1.79. So they I don't know if they've got themselves into a shitty situation or what, but that's looking a little hairy there. And, also, if it's that close, don't freaking buy it. Like, I'm I'm I'm all I'm all good for ethics and those sort of things, but don't screw yourself.

Dan Austin: [8:29] Yeah. Unless you have a different exit on it. Maybe you need you wanna park some money in a rental property or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder I I'm curious how how long this will last. Maybe it's temporary while people are trying to figure things out, and then all of sudden there'll be a new market norm. Maybe that's by the end of the year and people there will be certain people that aren't buyers anymore, but then your your normal buyers will be buying again at a normal rate. It'll just be probably whatever that new market norm is. Yeah. But I think we're just kind of figuring it out right now.

Mike DeHaan: [8:59] Well, I think I think the big thing is, you know, the main people that are still buying are, like, the big time flippers. Right? And, like, the the proper businesses. But at the same time, they're also marketing for their own deals. So they're also running into the same situations that we are where it's like, hey. They're getting these contracts. They're not able to move them. So now all of the money they would have traditionally bought other people's deals for, they're not having to buy their own because they can't assign any of them. Right? But all of, like, the mom and pop flippers that we've you know, we'll buy, like, one or two deals a year that we're buying over the last few years, they've all put the brakes on because they consume the same mainstream media as, like, you know, a lot of sellers and stuff do, which is just fear, fear, fear, fear. Yeah. And so now those people, they're not gonna be risking anything if they're only doing one deal a year. They'll just wait, for something. I don't know what the hell they're gonna wait for. Yeah. But either way, they're gonna they're gonna put the brakes on. Well, they they need another, like, eight year market cycle where they sit there on the sidelines for eight years and have fear of missing out, then they decide to, like, jump in, you know, and then they start.

Dan Austin: [10:01] Yeah. It's it's like all those all the folks that, I can't believe, you know, you're buying houses right now. You're buying at the top of the market. You're buying at the top of the market. People had said that for several years and during, like, the one of the best economic expansions we've had in US history. And they say, well, I'm just going wait for the market to crash. I'll be buying everything. Like, are you guys at now? I know.

Mike DeHaan: [10:22] Yeah. Well, market, the market hasn't crashed, it slowed down. No. But it's funny because everybody

Dan Austin: [10:28] But in their terms, this is Yeah. This is the opportunity they're waiting for. This is the buy opportunity because things are softening up. Right? Like, and this is a time that you can maybe put in some more competitive offers that, will get accepted because you don't have the frenzy of people buying things right now. And so this is like kind of a more of a buy opportunity. It's more of it's shifting towards a buyer's market on the, on the, retail side of things. And I think it's going to shift that way on the off market side of things for a while. And so I just strongly believe that those folks that were waiting for the market to crash, you know, so to speak, still are not going to be buyers when the market is softening and when the market is in a decline Yeah. Because they'll have 10 times the excuses of why they're not buying right now Of course. Than they had when, they were trying to buy or saying that they couldn't buy during a national one of the best national expansions we've ever had economically speaking. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [11:17] I know. I mean, we're just like that with everything though. Right? You know, whether it's stocks, real estate. I mean, I remember when I when I first got out of school, 2013, 2014, people were talking about how the stock market was gonna crash. That was Oh, yeah. Seven years ago now.

Dan Austin: [11:30] Eight years ago. I know.

Mike DeHaan: [11:31] Long time ago. And they're saying about real estate as well. As it was, like, on the on the recovery, like, even 2019, thousand twenty, people were like, oh, man. Prices have gone up a lot since, you know, 2008. Yeah. I was like, well, now they're way more than that. I don't know. But point being, like Yeah. I've been it comes to real estate, if you're buying at a discount, you know, make sure you always have multiple exits and make sure that, you know, you're actually are buying at a good price and be prepared to hold for a long term if you need to. That's what we've been telling our our instant investor guys is, you know, a different spin on. Just make sure that if you're, you know, gonna buy it, the flip or you're looking to wholesale it, that you do have a different access. You're at least not wasting the opportunity.

Dan Austin: [12:09] Yeah. Yeah. And just don't over leverage. And, you know, if you if you can financially sustain holding on to one property, don't go buy three. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [12:16] For sure. Right? If you're if you're trying

Dan Austin: [12:17] to flip properties. Right? Because, you know, if you're a big if you're a bigger player, like, you know, maybe us, we're not gonna be holding on to more properties than we'd want to negative or flat cash flow if we had to. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [12:30] For sure. Or that we had

Dan Austin: [12:31] to leave, say, not that we'd even be negative cash flow, but that we'd have to leave, say $7,500,000 in.

Mike DeHaan: [12:36] Like, we're not going to do

Dan Austin: [12:38] that for a bunch of properties. Are we going to do that for a couple? Yeah, we'll, we'll do that. We'll sustain it because we know in the long term is the best decision. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [12:44] It's being more selective and then, you know, on on all those sort of thing. I mean,

Dan Austin: [12:49] like, it

Mike DeHaan: [12:49] is it is a long term game at the end of it. Because Yeah. I mean, like we talked about earlier that it's easy to get addicted to the money you make on the transactions, but the real eye opener for both of us in the past year was when we did cash out refinances on our our personal rentals that we own. We pulled out, like, very significant amounts of money completely tax free.

Dan Austin: [13:08] Absolutely. Yeah. That tax free money is huge. And then if it's a decent asset, why can't you do that several times?

Mike DeHaan: [13:16] Right? Yeah. Well, I mean, which I Over over a ten, twelve year period. Yeah. Which I already have. So, like, my one of my ones I in fact, one or maybe two of the ones I cash out refi ed in November, I'd already done that once before. So I got did that. I did that back in, like, late twenty twenty as well. And then late twenty twenty one, I did it again. Like, it was even cheaper.

Dan Austin: [13:39] I mean, it's definitely it's harder to do if you're not in, like, a flat or declining interest rate. Like if interest rates are going up, you definitely don't want to be doing it. But like, it's not the end of the world if you had to. But it's certainly one of those things that if you can avoid a taxable event, but also access that equity. That's that's like the power of real estate. If you're just trying to if you're just selling properties and you have to pay taxes on it, or you're ten thirty one ing everything into like but when you do ten thirty one, you sometimes get into deals you don't want to be in just to avoid the taxes. And so like, that all kinda sucks. But, like, if you have a good asset, a solid asset, and you can do cash out refinances several times through the life of that asset, oh, man. Yeah. I mean That's great.

Mike DeHaan: [14:21] That's the whole Robert Kiyosaki thing, though. Right? Is is, you know, you live off of the debt that you pull on these properties. It's always tax free. So basically, your life is paid for by the cash flow that you get. But a lot of people, I think that's where they look at cash flow kind of funnily is they they think, like, I'm gonna have these rentals that make $500 a month in cash flow, so I'm gonna live off of this. Like, no. Realistically, what you wanna do hold on to it for long enough that you have a huge equity position. Right? And you have a little bit of cash flow coming off, but you have enough room on that cash flow that when you go and you pull out $500,000 from that asset, it's still gonna pay for that. But you don't have to pay any taxes on a $500,000. You can use that $500,000 to go and do life changing stuff. Yep. You know? Like, go

Dan Austin: [14:59] to Spain for two weeks.

Mike DeHaan: [15:00] Exactly. Right?

Dan Austin: [15:02] Yeah. You know? Life changing.

Mike DeHaan: [15:03] I'm not gonna lie. We flew first class. It was great. But yeah. And, you know, I think the big thing with a lot of people right now, if you are hesitant to be purchasing or, you know, making sort of drastic moves, positioning yourself in a place for when, you know, you do feel more comfortable is pretty huge. Right? So, like, you know, like, a lot of people right now are dealing with interest rates being poor, you know, not having good rapport with sellers, you know, not have to be able to good conversations, those sort of things. But for us, you know, we don't necessarily have those problems because we spent the last couple of years building out basically like our company and like a reputation that exists amongst the investor community. It exists amongst sellers in the area. You know, we talked to a lot of sellers who are familiar with us. They've been retargeted by our online ads. They've seen our marketing before. They know all those sort things. For us, keep going getting a loan. You know, everyone's saying like, oh, don't expect a loan, a rental loan for less than six and a half percent, six and quarter percent. I mean, we just bought a little, I saw little our 16 property response is at what 5% with our lender that we have a relationship with because we have this brand and this business recognition. So making that kind of your priority in the immediate where you're trying to sort of wait for things to settle, I think can be huge. And, you know, even, like, basic stuff that you can still do that will build towards that tangible view. Like, you know, get a professional website done. Move away from that janky carrot website that looks exactly the same as everyone else.

Mike DeHaan: [16:34] Don't get one professional. You know, work on getting Facebook ads up and running. Work on getting some some Google ads up and running so that people sort of see your brand recognition. You know, work on marketing material so it's a little bit more unique than just like the template and stuff you may have been sending out. All those sort of things Yep. They you know, that over time is what's gonna give you the advantage in these sort of markets. You're gonna get more opportunities. Right? And you're gonna be able to Right. Buy stuff, a little bit better. And that's kind of my segue though to our educational thing that we're gonna talk about of how exactly to do that.

Dan Austin: [17:08] Yeah. Maybe it's like let's break those down here in segments, into sections, and and and chat about each one and, like, how you would go about building that brand within those segments. Because I think you had just highlighted quite a few different areas. Know, one is your peers and your other investors within your community. One is is your customer base. Like, how have you built that brand with them? Online presence? That's a different brand because you're looking a lot of times at a different customer base when you have an online brand because the people look at your website. Like, if you look at your I'm not Stop there. Let's stop there. Yeah. Let's just yeah. Let's transition and and and talk about these individually before I get too

Mike DeHaan: [17:47] deep Yeah. Into So either way, so quick few comments about the instant investor program. And then when we come back, we're gonna talk about, especially in these times right now, how to build that brand, how to go about it the right way, how to not do it, and why this is a great time to be doing that. So cool. Be right back. The instant investor program is our twelve week group coaching program, which includes a self driven course and access to our private investor community. We will take you through the full process of how we find our leads, how we market, how we do our sales and follow-up, and how we determine the best strategy for every opportunity that comes our way. On top of that, you will also join a community of other like minded investors nationwide that are all marching towards the same goals, and you'll have direct access to Dan and myself so you can continue learning and growing with us as we continue to adapt and grow our business. So whether you're a new investor or already established, our systems can help take you to the next level. So if you think you might be a good fit, go to the instantinvestorprogram.com and schedule a call, and we can have you talking to motivated leads in as little as two weeks.

Mike DeHaan: [18:46] Alright. So building a real estate investment brand. There's so many different ways to go about it. There's ways that you can do it that are over complicated. There's ways you can do it that are, you know, oversimplified, I would say. But, you know, when it comes down to it, what I would say if you're, like, fresh fresh, don't necessarily make this your priority because you need to get good at talking to sellers and learning the sales process first. But if you're kinda somebody that is doing deals, you know, you're having good conversation on a regular basis, but you find that you're constantly losing out to other investors or you're not getting a good response rate on your marketing or things like that compared to the people you talk to, Getting a brand established is gonna make a huge difference over that, like, like, in those situations because you're gonna have more credibility, you know, with sellers, right, with other investors that you're trying to sell properties to, with realtors in the area, with lenders, you know, with people that wanna invest money with you, like, you name it. If you can go and say, this is my company. This is my website, professionally built. It's all done right.

Mike DeHaan: [19:48] You can get, you know, a lot farther with those sort of things. And you're just like, hi. My name is Mike, and I'm trying to buy houses. Like Right. Like my sort of

Dan Austin: [19:55] I would say too, like, don't discount it as the new investor, though, that because brand is built over time. Yeah. So there are little things you can do as you're going. But, yeah, don't go out there and spend a bunch of money on, like, a super great website. Build all this like high end marketing materials that that's brand specific. Both things you can do is like, Hey, if you are talking to people and working with, with sellers, get a Google review. Yeah. Like if you wait a year to do that and you've done 12 deals in that year, you just miss out on 12, The little number in the parentheses next to your five star review of 12. Right. And like, I know when I go shopping online or, or I'm looking for like a local vendor and I see one that's got two Google reviews and then like a four and a half star, but I see one that's like four fifty Google reviews and it's a five star. I'm likely gonna go towards that one because four fifty people reviewed it. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [20:40] Yeah. And that and that's huge. And I I guess just to backtrack, I'm saying if you're getting started, don't not be doing the hard things like talking to sellers and that sort of stuff Yes. Because you feel like you need to build a website first.

Dan Austin: [20:51] Yeah. And that's kind of our mantra with how we coach our our students and stuff is, yeah, don't get don't get so tied up in, like, this idea of building your brand and your business and forget that you need to start marketing to people and you need to start talking to sellers because that's where you're gonna make your money.

Mike DeHaan: [21:04] Exactly. And and I mean, we've been in several other groups where, you know, people start with, like, building the brand and there's, like, a huge number of people that come in and they never even get past that because they get stuck on, like Yeah. Well, all the names that I wanted are already taken. It's like Yeah. And I mean I can't get

Dan Austin: [21:20] an LLC in that name. Exactly. You know, I

Mike DeHaan: [21:22] was like Oh, you like the logo. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. The I can't get my URLs. Like, well, sorry. All the good URLs were taken, like, six years ago.

Dan Austin: [21:28] And you and you can change all that stuff as you go. You can doesn't matter. Right? Like like, let's just start talking to sellers. And why don't you get paid to build your brand as opposed to paying to build your brand? Correct.

Mike DeHaan: [21:38] Yeah. Exactly. Right? And and that and that's super key. You know? And as you're going through that process, that's something else that people tend to get caught up on is they try to do so much of it themselves, especially when you're starting out, you don't have a lot of money. But you can like, every aspect of that from making a logo to making a website to doing your copy, you know, to doing everything, it's so easy to find people, particularly overseas, for to go and do it. Like, I think it was an episode that came out. Episode 39 was about virtual assistants. Just go just go listen to that one that came out last week and find a virtual assistant or someone on Fiverr to make that logo for you. It'll cost you, like, $15. You know? And it'll be better than what you do. I just the one ask I have is don't accept the freaking logo, which is like a roof with, a window, you know, which is like which is like every single company and they all look terrible and they all look the same, you know? Yeah. Exactly. To me a little bit more unique. And then, I mean, on that same line, like, business, in hindsight, I wish we had a slightly more unique name. If you can come up with something that's, like, memorable to people that isn't, like, you know, Mike and Dan properties. Like, I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [22:47] Like, there's some of the good ones we've seen that I like in some of the good, like, baby back rehabs. You know? That one is awesome. So that that's an awesome That's so cool. You know, like, the property penguin. Right? Like, you know, one that has something that is distinguishable to people. Because, you know, if it's the property penguin versus MD properties versus home buyer deluxe versus whatever, like, that one's gonna stick with people a little bit more. Totally. Right? Because it has something that they immediately can visualize. So Right. Approaching it with that sort of a view of, you know, what are you gonna what would you remember if you're in their shoes?

Dan Austin: [23:19] So so as far as branding goes, like, maybe let's start with the digital brand Mhmm. And kind of the brand you're presenting to your your sellers. And I would like to finish maybe talking about the local investor, your brand within your local investor because I think that's really important, but I would like to, like, kind of build up to that.

Mike DeHaan: [23:40] Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, they're they're all kinda one in the same if you look at it from being memorable. Right? Like like, any if you're gonna be memorable across all those fronts, it's gonna do the best. But know, the too. Right?

Dan Austin: [23:53] Don't be different across the platforms.

Mike DeHaan: [23:56] That's very true. Because we we do see that sometimes. Like, we've known people that have had, like, buying, I guess, sort of businesses that they use other acquisitions binge, like selling ones they try to use for their dispositions. So that tends to create a lot of confusion with people. Right. So when you're going through it, the message and everything kinda needs to be the same. The material can be similar. But I guess the way that you interact with people is gonna be a little bit different. You know? So when you build your website, for example, you definitely wanna cater it towards sellers because the first thing people are gonna do when they go and they get your, you know, your mail or your letters they talk to you, they're gonna go and look you up online. Everyone's gonna do that the second they get anything. Mhmm. So if you have a good professional presence online that a seller can see, that's gonna make a big difference. And, you know, there's a lot of different turnkey websites you can get. The carrot, there's one called lead propeller that will give you a really basic website. Those are basically like the made for TV sort of versions of, like, a website. They're really cheap. They all look the same. You know, they they are very limited customization. If you can if you're willing to spend, like, a couple $100 to go and get a custom website made, it's gonna make a pretty big difference in that.

Mike DeHaan: [25:04] So so Carrot's big selling point, though,

Dan Austin: [25:06] is a, it's easy. It's turnkey. It's relatively cheap. And they talk about SEO and all

Mike DeHaan: [25:13] that sort of stuff.

Dan Austin: [25:13] But that's, like, the biggest advantage?

Mike DeHaan: [25:15] No. It's, like, the biggest scam because SEO, right, search engine optimization for Google. I mean, it makes sense if if you so basically, what the whole point is, it's supposed to have copy that Google looks for in favors when people, like, look up, you know, sell my house, Spokane, whatever. Right. The thing is when you have nine or 10 people in your market that have the exact same website and copy, it's a freaking waste. Like, would if they capture that, like, one website per market, that'd be fine, but they don't. Right. You know? And, like, I mean Well,

Dan Austin: [25:44] it's kinda funny when you have the same blog post on your website that your competitor does.

Mike DeHaan: [25:48] And they all do because that's the other thing that they offer is like, oh, yeah. You pay an extra $100 a month, and we'll post these blogs for you. And it's like, cool. Well, so are the other 10 businesses in your market. So you'll have an exact same website, which creates a weird thing. You know? Mhmm. And something else too with this that we find is pretty common with investors is, I think, because they're embarrassed about, you know, making low offers and that sort of thing. They kinda tried to hide behind their brand. But don't be afraid to put your photo on there. You know? Like, I honestly, if you're that worried about sellers finding out who you are, you're probably not approaching things the right way.

Dan Austin: [26:19] Totally. Yeah. If you're worried about ethics or something like that, you're doing it the wrong way. Which some people, when they're first getting into it, especially if they started out as like an agent or a broker, they get into that. Like, they're worried about that brand, and they're worried about like that brand hurting their listing side of things. And then also some getting awkward around like what they're legally able to do as a realtor versus off market stuff, which those are valid concerns. But they have this weird vibe about it or this weird mental state where it's like, yeah, if you're approaching it the way you think that you should be approaching, you're probably

Mike DeHaan: [26:52] doing it the wrong way. Yeah. For sure.

Dan Austin: [26:53] If you're if you're running your business ethically and you're doing the right thing for everybody involved in the transaction, you're probably not gonna need to worry about that.

Mike DeHaan: [27:01] Yeah. Exactly. I don't personally worry about it. Yeah. And and well, exactly. And then and then on that same note, you know, by putting your name and stuff out there and your photo and all those sort of things, it makes you that much more credible to the seller, actually, now who you're talking to. You know, and not only you, but like you want to have your salespeople, you know, if you have an acquisitions person, absolutely put them on your website because if James calls them and they look on the website and there's no James, they're like, well, who the hell am I talking to then? Right. Right. And that's a lot of

Dan Austin: [27:27] these sellers tend to be a little skittish around that sort of stuff for whatever reason. So that does help your brand a ton. Mhmm. Having your face out there, having your name out there.

Mike DeHaan: [27:36] Yeah. So, you know, so so that's super seller facing. And then when it comes to social media and those sort of things, one of the biggest mistakes I think people make is they they use social media as a way that they, like, are trying to get a lot of followers, and they try to, like, make this, like, interesting content on social media. It's like, I hate to say it, but your customers, your motivated sellers, they're not gonna follow you on social media as, like, a fan. And then all of a sudden, they're like, you know what? I shouldn't sell my house to these people. That's never how it's gonna work. You you know, you can use that for, like, kinda like a buyer presence. Right? If you want buyers to sort of see stuff that you're doing a little bit. But realistically, the best use for social media is for retargeting. So there's a lot of different ways you can into it. It gets kinda complex. But basically, what you can do is you can create ads that are shown to people after they visited your website that show up on, like, social media and Instagram. And that's the best way that you can use social media for marketing and selling purposes.

Dan Austin: [28:32] So do put, like, a a Facebook pixel on

Mike DeHaan: [28:34] your website? Exactly. So yeah. Very basically, if you go and Google, like, how to install Facebook on my website, you can find something that gets into this. But you go in, then when someone goes to your website, they get a cookie on their computer from that Facebook pixel. And now Facebook and Instagram, they're gonna be seeing your business all over the place. And that just reinforces the, the concept they say of people need to be exposed to you seven times before they're willing to have a conversation. And what is it, like, 17 to 21 times before they want to do business? So, you know, if you're competing with a bunch of people, bunch of other businesses, and, you know, they go into all the websites, and then they go on their social media afterwards, and you're the only one that they're seeing over and over and over again, they're gonna be more likely to do business with you because you're gonna be fresh on their mind. You know, it's just like how if you're like, I wanna buy a new tent, whatever, and you go and you look it up, and all of a sudden, you're getting hit with ads for that tent from Amazon and everything else.

Dan Austin: [29:26] Yeah. Absolutely. And then you do you see it seven times, and I'm telling you, I'm more likely to buy it.

Mike DeHaan: [29:30] Exactly. Right? It's so true. Yeah. So so that that's you know, for marketing purposes, don't you know, and brand purposes, don't spend a bunch of time making a bunch of sexy social media content for your wholesaling business. Yeah. No one cares. Like, you might get some likes from buyers and things like that, but, you know, it might make you more memorable if you're trying to be a dispo shop, something like that, but it's not gonna be a major cornerstone for your business, and it's gonna be a large distraction over anything else. Right. And then when it comes to marketing towards buyers, I mean, the biggest thing is, on, like, dispo material and things like that, if people, recognize your brand from that and they see you as someone that is sending out a lot of opportunities and they recognize as you you and your company being someone that brings a lot of opportunities, they're going to trust you more. You know? It's just like if you're gonna buy a a widget, you know, you're gonna buy it from Amazon or you're gonna buy it from, you know, widgetsupplycompany.com. Right? Right. You're gonna more likely buy from Amazon even though, you know, widgetsupply probably property.com probably whatever the hell I said, probably sells their stuff through Amazon because it has, like, that face that you recognize.

Mike DeHaan: [30:41] Right?

Dan Austin: [30:41] It has it has a brand that you trust Yeah. That you have seen. Exactly. So you know Oregon.

Mike DeHaan: [30:46] As you build out your buyers list and you're doing this disposition and you're doing this marketing this branded material that people are seeing on a regular basis in their emails or texts or whatever. They're becoming more familiar with you. And all of a sudden, there's someone that's gonna buy one house this year, and they have a choice of buying one from you with your branded coming that they're comfortable with or, you know, freaking Cody, the wholesaler, the random wholesaler who sent him one, who are they gonna pick? They're gonna pick you. Right. Right? They're gonna trust you more. Like, you have better rapport. You have a better brand that they're familiar with. Yeah. And and, like, a lot

Dan Austin: [31:23] of the stuff, you know, people think is has to be in absolute terms. It's not. Like, every seller's not the same. Like, sometimes the seller's gonna go through the whole stack and mailers and call every single person. Yep. But that's fine because everybody's getting that phone call. It's that seller that's only calling you that gives you the competitive edge that lets you build a business faster that's fast, faster, stronger.

Mike DeHaan: [31:42] Yeah. Exactly. And and nothing's perfect. Right? But I mean, if you can do something that gets you an extra 1%, 2% of opportunities. Right?

Dan Austin: [31:51] That's an extra deal a month. Yeah. I mean, that that could that could take you from being, you know, breakeven to profitable or have it so that you can buy that sweet boat you've wanted.

Mike DeHaan: [32:00] Right. Yeah. I don't wanna say that.

Dan Austin: [32:02] Whatever your goal is with the with with your business. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [32:04] Exactly. Or or even, you know, on, like, the dispo side of it. Right? If people are that much more comfortable and you go from getting two people that are interested in your deal to 10, like, that's a huge opportunity for you to be able to have more secure cash flow coming in, you know, being able to dispo at higher prices, all those sort

Dan Austin: [32:21] of things. So That's a whole another that's a whole another topic. Probably, maybe another episode of just dispo marketing. Yeah. Disposition marketing. Because there's it's a challenging thing.

Mike DeHaan: [32:29] I know. And especially, yeah, especially these days, it's been getting more challenging. So, yeah, so when it comes to building that brand, though, as the market's down, you know, and the market's increasing like it has been in the past past couple years, the bulk of your time should have been spent talking to sellers, pursuing opportunities, all that sort of stuff. Now that the market's down, there's gonna be less stuff going around. You can go and keep beating your head against the wall and and try and get these opportunities, which you probably still will. But it's a great time to sort of slow down, step back, and start building out this part of your business because tell you what, as if stuff does start to tank and start to go a little bit weird, the people that have that established are gonna wreck the onesie twosie people that don't have a track record. Totally. Yep. You know? It's gonna be an absolute no brainer of a difference.

Dan Austin: [33:12] The one thing too before we sign off here, because I know we only got a few minutes left, but I did wanna talk about something that you're really good about is is building your brand within your peer group Mhmm. Within your local market, whether whether you live there or not, but, like, within that local investing farm market that you're in.

Mike DeHaan: [33:28] Yeah. Absolutely. Do want me

Dan Austin: [33:31] to talk about that? Yeah. I mean, we got a few minutes left. Like, talk about how you do it, how you go about it, the importance of it. Because it it can seemingly be something you don't worry about and you just work in a silo. Mhmm. But what makes your business successful, honestly, is the peers you work with, especially in an off market business because you sometimes are selling properties to your competitors or they can help sell properties for I mean, there's just so many things that we do interact with our local competition on and local other other investors, I should say, rather, or that people that work within that investor space.

Mike DeHaan: [33:58] Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean okay. I see what saying. Yeah. So that's I mean, that's valid. And we do a lot of JV stuff like that. I mean, even just a few weeks ago, we did a a JV deal with one of our our competitors actually where we split, like, a $65,000 fee. I mean, we helped them get the deal done. They basically paid us $32,500 to do that. So, like, the best way to go about it, and that is something else that's kinda interesting is there'll be these people that go and build these fancy brands and all the swag and all that sort of stuff, but they don't really do anything. When you're working in your peer group, you need to have that brand recognition to sort of get people's attention. But ultimately, what they need to see is they need just you taking action and actually walking the wall. Right.

Dan Austin: [34:40] Because Taking action is

Mike DeHaan: [34:42] huge. Exactly. Because the the real movers and shakers out there doing stuff, they're gonna, you know, see right through any sort of BS that you have. Mhmm. And one thing I would say is if you are new and you're, like, you're trying to establish that, don't talk a bunch of bullshit. Like, just say, like, hey. I'm trying to figure this out. This is what I wanna do. And just, like, you know, show some humility.

Dan Austin: [35:07] Be honest.

Mike DeHaan: [35:07] Be honest. Sure that you're being and just be honest about it. And people will be more confident of that.

Dan Austin: [35:11] And I think that's another piece about your brand as you establish it. Like, don't try to do things that are weird. Yeah. Don't try to do things that are shady. Like, be, you know, a good local business person and a good person in your peer group. And when there's opportunity for you to take advantage of somebody, don't do it. Yeah. Like, cause I mean, there is opportunity where you might be able to sell deals for a little bit more money and, or you do certain things or you tell somebody, you you tell them a deal is a little bit better than it is. And then that person finds out that it wasn't and there was squatters in the basement, all sorts of stuff. Like, it's easy to do that, but don't do it because eventually nobody's gonna wanna work with you and your name will go I mean, we have investors in our local market that nobody wants to do work with.

Mike DeHaan: [35:50] Yeah. Exact yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all it takes is one situation of that. It'll burn the bridges with everyone, especially because word travels fast. And not only that too, but if you're trying to, you know, not not being like a a poser in your media area, but also don't do that on social media with your immediate people being able to see it. Because we know tons of people like that too. Yeah. Yeah. We know tons of people too who, like, they give this fake sort of charade of how awesome that they're doing. So they did, like, one or two deals because that's, like, their focus. They wanna make all these TikTok videos. Mhmm. But then everyone in their community that knows them directly is like, oh, no. They're not doing shit. And the problem is that that sort of reputation sticks with you. Even if they did turn around and start doing well, they're still the people that are just dancing on TikTok when they should be, you know, out getting stuff done.

Dan Austin: [36:39] Out grinding. Right? Yeah. And and the other thing is is it it makes you it just puts a fracture in what people's perceived perception of your honesty is. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [36:48] Yeah. You're right. So they're gonna do business with

Dan Austin: [36:50] you at an arm's length if at all.

Mike DeHaan: [36:52] Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, point being, like, when it comes to that local group, I mean, walkers, like, people who are walking the walk are gonna do much better. And then, you know, you can use that brand to sort of get people's attention, but then you gotta be able to show results as well or else, you know, it's gonna be pointless at the end of Yep. The

Dan Austin: [37:11] Be honest to and work with them and and, be there to help them out when they need it. Those sorts of things. Right. At at, you know, when we're like at a note at a, you know, any notice somebody calls and says, hey, do you have a connection for this? Absolutely. Let me share with you. Like, let me help you out. Being overly helpful to people, that's part of your brand and just being, I think, an honest business person is part of your brand because that will come and save your butt someday. Because it saved our butt a few times just by being good, upstanding people

Mike DeHaan: [37:37] Yep. And working with others. Exactly. It's all about reputation. I mean, real estate more than anything else is pretty much all about who you know. So Yep. Perfect. It's people. Cool. Alright, guys. Well, that's it for today. Some things coming in, I guess, this week on Friday. We're gonna be trying a new segment. It's basically gonna be a we haven't come up with the name for it yet, but, like, our Friday brain dump, like, thought of the week sort of thing. We're gonna be just a short effort. Key of the week. Key of the week. I mean, we might need to run with that, man. Weekly key. The weekly key. The weekly key. I don't know. So it's gonna be either either by Dan or I. It's gonna be just a short five or eight minute solo show where we talk about a something that's particularly going on in the news or, like, a civic topic or a thought we had or something like that just so you can get a little more insight on our views on on things that are going on. So look look for that coming up on Fridays. And besides that, guys, go and follow us on Instagram. I'm at Mike underscore Invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan, if you wanna learn about how we have built our brand, you know, how we market our business, how we have built this business that's still doing okay with, like, all the weird market stuff going on. Go check us out at the instantinvestorprogram.com and apply and see if you'll be a good fit for our coaching program.

Mike DeHaan: [38:54] We have a good little community over there going on right now, and some people are think people are starting to you know, even with the ups and downs, they're doing alright. It's always a little bit of a different thing when we have a couple people that are, like, fresh fresh, and they're starting to get a little shaky. But Right. Companies are still getting after it. One of them's not one of them's stumbling down pretty good. So instantinvestorprogram.com. Go and check it out. And besides that, please go and share the show with anyone who would be interested and go and subscribe to us on wherever you listen to your podcast. So besides that, anything else, Dan? No. That's it. Where'd you sign off? Come on. I know. I was waiting, but

Dan Austin: [39:27] I was gonna stare at you making an awkward silence.

Mike DeHaan: [39:29] I don't I don't want, you know

Dan Austin: [39:30] yeah. I'm tired. I'm tired this week. I've been you know, this new baby's been killing me. So I'm I'm officially signing off for the week. We'll see you guys next week. Alright.

Mike DeHaan: [39:40] That's that's it. A defeated man right there. It's also been been picking up for my, gallivanting ass going around the country while you were you were at home working.

Dan Austin: [39:48] So I appreciate that. No. It's yeah. It's just, waking up at 3AM every day has got me. Sorry. Sorry, audience. I'll give you more next week. I promise.

Mike DeHaan: [39:54] Yeah. And that next week when the child is more grown, it will be easier for you.

Dan Austin: [39:58] More grown. It'll be a week old. Hey. That's a big that's a big difference for all you parents out there.

Mike DeHaan: [40:01] I mean

Dan Austin: [40:01] You know what I'm saying?

Mike DeHaan: [40:02] I mean, realistically, that's what probably another 20% of its life at this point. Exactly.

Dan Austin: [40:07] It's a little bit 20% older.

Mike DeHaan: [40:09] Yeah. Yeah. That that that's like a like a a mainstream media news statistic. My baby is 20 older this week than last week.

Dan Austin: [40:16] Right. Yeah. Babies aging 20% faster than adults.

Mike DeHaan: [40:20] Yeah. Right. I think we we we got another career in news headlines. Alright. I love it. Thanks, guys. Have a good week. Alright. See you all next week.

Speaker 2: [40:31] Thanks for listening. Please leave us a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, and check us out at collectingkeyspodcast.com for tips and guides on starting your own real estate investment and wholesaling business.

Mike DeHaan: [40:46] Hi.