Using Real Estate To Leave A Legacy with Calvin Chin

Calvin Chin: [0:00] Why we're gonna do some light renovations on it, make it where it's a little make put more beds and heads kind of situation. And then step phase two is adding an acidity pool and like other amenities around the area. So again, of a passion thing, like, you know, if it takes off financially, awesome, but we're not looking at it to, like, be a lot of money, it's more just of a, you know, how can we support, like, vision in life, and then when we think about, like, legacy and, like, what do we wanna remember for? Like, that to me is something that that juices me up of, like, how can we leave an impact on this world in a better place?

Speaker 2: [0:31] Welcome to the Collecting Keys Real Estate Investing Podcast with your host, Mike DeHaan and Dan Austin. From wins, losses, horror stories, and tactics for optimizing your business, Mike and Dan take a real uncensored deep dive into the ins and outs of running a full time real estate investment and wholesaling business.

Mike DeHaan: [0:54] What's going on, guys? In this episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast, we have Calvin Chin out of San Francisco, and he is a traditional I guess, like, somewhat traditional story of hated this job, got into real estate, and now has started to vertically integrate into a ton of different real estate businesses, and is doing some really awesome things. And all that happened over the last what, like six or seven years, so young guys in his early 30s. So it's a great testament about what exactly is possible if you put your head down and you just get to work.

Dan Austin: [1:29] Right. Yeah. It's not like he had any any like crazy background that gave him a leg up on this.

Calvin Chin: [1:34] He went from being in tech sales to in Southern California to basically, like, living very cheaply, taking the next step, covering his expenses by real estate, losing some money, getting his butt kicked, continue to be consistent and stay in

Dan Austin: [1:47] the game, and then all of a sudden now, he's owning, as a GP, his apartment buildings that he's he's stepped up into now, which is really cool.

Mike DeHaan: [1:53] Yeah. Well, he's not even a GP. He's a direct owner because he's not doing syndications.

Dan Austin: [1:57] Oh, sure. I should say that. Yes. He is the owner of these.

Mike DeHaan: [2:00] Yeah. Of, 200 something units, which is significantly more impressive because he's not doing these syndications or has like a tiny portion the deals sort of things. But he is buying these properties himself. And as you kind of mentioned there Oh,

Dan Austin: [2:11] in good markets too. They're not shitty markets.

Mike DeHaan: [2:13] Yeah. Yeah. Right. He's not in It just speaks

Dan Austin: [2:15] to the competitiveness of it and the need how difficult it is to buy in a good market.

Mike DeHaan: [2:19] Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, he's done super well with that. And then as you alluded to with the story, I mean, he's kinda gone through it all. He was he house hacked a 500 square foot studio apartment, which is insanity by like renting out the closet to somebody. Yeah. You know, he lost a $100,000 on his first deal. He has gone through all sorts of ups and downs. You know, he lives in an expensive market, had to go virtual, had to do all these different things. And he just has a really great story. And the way that he's vertically integrating, think, is just such a great way for people to scale real estate businesses and you know, themselves as they start to like find themselves entrepreneurs. So tons of the great stuff here. But anyways, guys, hope you enjoy this show with Calvin. Seriously, you should reach out to him if you get any advice from the show, and I'm sure that you will. As I always say, people come on these shows because they want you to engage with them. He's no exception. Super nice guy. He even says at the end that, like, you know, he cares more about how other people do at this point versus how even he does. So Right. Hey, hit him up. Take him on his opportunities.

Mike DeHaan: [3:24] Besides that, you should share this with anyone who's interested in real estate, you know, kind of like upcoming stories, investing, anything in between. And if you want to start finding off market deals for yourself, you should go to collectingkeyspodcast.com/free, you get your free five step guide to start turning off market leads. And then you can start a business that you can start having vertically integrated businesses alongside those in a pretty quick fashion. So anyways, guys, super good stuff here. Enjoy the show with Calvin chin. Alright, we are here today with Calvin chin, who is real estate extraordinaire, doing everything from multifamily, you got a brokerage, you're vertically integrating a bunch of different ways, People who don't know who you are, or sort of what you're about, why don't you give us a little bit of rundown on kind of like your backstory and what all your business everything looks like, because you're doing a lot of stuff, man. I'm super impressed.

Calvin Chin: [4:12] Yeah, man. I mean, backstory is probably like all of you out there, you know, was in a nine to five, I was in technology for a long long time and I was was always taught as a kid that that was like the dream, right, to be in a good industry and a good job and making an awesome W2 and you know, I thought I'd if I had made a good W2, I'd be successful and I'd be happy and once I got into that and started climbing the corporate ladder, I figured out that I I definitely was not. So did what a lot of people did, I went home and I googled how do I quit my job and and real estate came up a bunch. So started to do a bunch of research into that, got my ass kicked a lot of times, but eventually, you know, was able to scale up enough of my real estate as a foundation to cover all my W-two salary and my expenses as well and then quit my job and then started to just grow from there and started adding businesses. We do, like you said, like anything from multifamily to Airbnb's. We just got a contract on a wellness center actually in Hawaii that we're pretty We used just integrated property management into our team as well. So yeah, man, it's been a lot of growth, a lot of journey along the way, a lot of failures along the way, but you know, it's all worth it at the end.

Mike DeHaan: [5:24] Wow. There you go. Alright guys, there you have it. So that's the secret. Be dissatisfied with your w two, you go Google how to quit your job, then you just do what Calvin did, and you'll make it that simple. It's an overnight success. That's it, that's it. Podcast done, next. Yeah, podcast done. Thanks guys. Wanna dive into some of the some of the details there, because I know that that's not exactly how it happened, right? Well, first off, how old are you? 31. 31, okay. You're young, You're about, you're my age, you know, Dan's pushing 50 over here, but that's his

Calvin Chin: [5:56] Slay beard, it's all on Pepperdine. Yes, thank you. Yeah, right.

Mike DeHaan: [6:00] So you know, you're young, so that stuff takes time though. Right? So when did you start on this journey? Like you said, you got into technology. I'm assuming you went to college.

Calvin Chin: [6:08] Yep. Went to college. Yep. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [6:10] And so how long were you in that role and like what kind of job was it? Were you working at like a fan company? Were you making $500 a year? Were you like a technology company that you're working in the basement of somewhere that was like making keyboards? Because those greatly influence Yeah. You know, your ability to scale with what you've done. Right? And I just like to hear the nuts and bolts about where people are coming from.

Calvin Chin: [6:29] Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Went college, didn't know what the hell I wanted to do, so I studied business, which is the most general wide variety of things, which means that you don't know what the hell you wanna do yet, right, so basically I ended up in sales, I got a job in Okay. At a big company called Oracle that a lot of people have heard of. My salary at this high was, I think it was a whopping $46,000 so I was crushing it, Nice, nice. Two things on the dollar menu at McDonald's, so that was cool. So, know, did that for a few years, put my head down, started to really get good at sales in general, just to get that craft going because I knew that, hey, sales, I've heard, you know, is translated to almost every industry, so I don't know I won't do this forever, but let me learn a skill. So put my head down, started to make some good money, getting into 6 figures, making some good money from there, but along the way learned about this real estate thing that a lot of people have heard about, so any commission check I got, that was going right into buying an asset, right, and just did that over and over again, lived well below my means, and I know a lot of people talk about that, but I lived in San Francisco, probably one of the most expensive places in the world. Yeah, right.

Calvin Chin: [7:36] I was, my monthly expense was like $2,400 a month, which in San Francisco was pretty solid.

Mike DeHaan: [7:41] Were you living in like a Lowe's box in the Tenderloin or like, what was that? That's like a parking spot.

Calvin Chin: [7:46] I was in Soba, I was in Soba, but I house hacked, I house hacked. Right? Okay. There you go. I had a one bedroom, one bedroom, one den. I had a den that was maybe a a buck 50 square feet and I'm probably generous, it was also a laundry room. I rented that out to a coder as well that was doing coding boot camps, and he had a curtain as a door and he slept on the floor essentially, he didn't get a bed, so I don't even think it's sitting there, was paying me $800 a month or no, he spent me $1,200 a month, my mortgage was $2, so my monthly net there was $800 for my living expenses, and then the rest was just, you know, living expenses, Ubers, all that stuff, but That's crazy. Yeah, and then just never increased my means for a long long time, even when I was making, you know, I got up to almost like a 500,000 in commissions and all that stuff, but even when I was making like nothing, I just or even when I was making a lot, I still kept that lifestyle the same as it was, and and basically used everything above that to buy real estate. But found out that that takes a long time too, if you just have that mindset of saving than buying in your job, no matter how much you make, right? It's gonna take you forever to get to where you wanna go. I mean, me, I had a passive income, you know, dream and goal, and and I was like, every property I bought, was like, man, this is not gonna get me there. How many of these do I have to do to get me there, right? Yeah. And how much money do have to make in my commissions to do that after taxes in California?

Calvin Chin: [9:10] Right? It's funny you say that, because I

Dan Austin: [9:11] was thinking just the other day, had random thought, I

Calvin Chin: [9:13] was like, you know, you hear all these people out

Dan Austin: [9:15] there say, well, just buy one property a

Calvin Chin: [9:16] year for ten years, you'll retire happy. It's like, you know

Dan Austin: [9:18] how freaking hard that is to buy one property a year

Calvin Chin: [9:20] for ten years if you're doing it, working at w two, and

Dan Austin: [9:22] then just trying to take excess income to buying a property 20% down every time? Super hard.

Calvin Chin: [9:27] Yeah, and and the people don't realize, even if you're making good income, like, you're getting taxed of the WOOHA, right? WOHA, it's like Yeah, especially California, yeah. But it really anyway, I mean, federally, like, you know, you're making 200 k, you're making a 100 k, right? You're making a 100 k, you're like 60 ks now, right? You got living expenses too,

Dan Austin: [9:41] so So true.

Calvin Chin: [9:42] You have about 20% down, 25% down on

Mike DeHaan: [9:44] investment property, if you're doing

Calvin Chin: [9:45] it traditionally, like, and even if you put 25% down on a 200 ks property, how much cash flow are you really getting from that? Like, even though you have 10 properties, are you gonna be able to live all that? I don't know man, like I don't think so. Yeah,

Dan Austin: [9:59] absolutely. So do you, did you start investing in Southern California or were you like going virtual like many people do?

Calvin Chin: [10:06] We house hacked first, That was our foundation. We got our expenses down. We was able to save our money from there. Then we went out of state right right away. Because Mhmm. If you bought 10 properties in California, probably make us good equity, but your cash flow probably is pretty trash still. Yeah. We bought in Texas. That was our next location that we bought. So, you know, started Dallas, Texas and in San Antonio, Texas, well, single family homes. It's just really cookie cutter vanilla, but same thing, realized there that, you know, unless I'm be making a million bucks every year, right, and bring all that into real estate, I'm not gonna get to my goals fast. So I started to think about, like, what other creative ways are there to to really make this work? Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [10:43] Yeah. Let's dive into that, because that is a question that I get so regularly on Instagram and from people in our in our group coaching, our instant investor program is they live in an expensive market. They have a, you know, high income. Even though your base pay was low, you said you're getting $500,000 commission checks from time to time. And that's what you invested with. That virtual remote investing, a, how did you settle on those markets? And b, what did that process look like? And like, what were your numbers? Like, how were you doing your due diligence? How were you knowing that the realtor wasn't full of shit? Were you like going out there? Like, what that's there's a lot of

Calvin Chin: [11:19] pieces there. Yeah. There's a lot to unpack there. Right? And so I think the traditional thought is, no, you should buy in your backyard because you can touch it, you can drive by, can see all that stuff. I think it's very old school because, you know, that's what my parents say, my grandparents say, no, in your backyard. But what they don't realize is that we have a lot of technology nowadays, right? We have FaceTime, we have Facebook, we have Google Earth, right? We have people that you can rely on, right? So I rely on the checks and balances system, right, where it's like, you have a bunch of people, you build out your team, right? So agents, you know, property managers, contractors, you know, whoever it is, cousins that live in the area, right? And if one person tells me something, cool, I'll trust it, but I'll verify. Right, cool, I can probably Okay. Okay, oh, you think it's you can get this much for rent here? Okay, cool, I trust you. Let me go verify myself with data, and then we'll verify with the property manager as well, right? That way, if they collaborate, then I know, well, I I gotta realize my data points as well and make my own educated decision. Now in terms of market, I always settle on Dallas first, because I think that's like the million dollar question, people are like, well, where do I go next, right? There's couple reasons, one, this is in like, I don't know, like 2015 or 2016, I even remember now, but I thought there was gonna be a recession then. Yeah.

Calvin Chin: [12:32] Like, it only took another, you know, five, eight years to actually get into one, but if we're even in one right now, we'll call it. Right. But I looked at like, okay, well, what does these markets do in a bad time? Like any market looks fantastic and at an awesome time, like if you look at the last like three years, every single market was on fire, right? But if you look at like 'eight, 'nine, what markets survived there? And so I like the data points of medium home prices, right? In Dallas 'eight, 'nine, the medium home price didn't change, right? It was neutral, it was like maybe negative point 02%, right? You know, Detroit was like negative 40%. Yeah. California was negative, you know, 15 to 20%, right? And so, you know, that was one aspect of it. Second was that, at the time, you could still cash flow there, I don't remember anymore, but at the time, could still cash flow pretty well in there. And third is I had family there too, right, so I was like, alright, for my first endeavor, like what's my competitive advantage, right? So some people grew up in a certain area, I think that's a competitive advantage, some people know people in the area, that's a competitive advantage, some people know things, you know, about what's gonna go on in the neighborhood, like maybe they're building an Amazon warehouse or whatever, no one else knows about it, so like yeah, that's competitive advantage.

Calvin Chin: [13:39] So I always ask myself what competitive advantage do I have at that point, also multiple industries, right? So Dallas has, you know, everything from obviously oil, right, to finance, to military, to you know, tech, so I knew that if one industry hits, gets hit pretty hard like tech, right, then at least other industries were there to pick it up, unlike you know, markets like even San Francisco where I live, it's heavy tech, right? So that's why you see these big dips, because when a tech market gets hit pretty hard, guess I should get it pretty hard here as well, so. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [14:10] That's Do you remember what your first investment was?

Calvin Chin: [14:13] Yeah, it was a single family house out in Dallas, Texas. I bought it for $140, put 25% down, I think my rate was like 4.375%. Cash flow was like, I don't know, like 8% cash on cash at the time. Yeah. I sold that property 2020, and I'm kicking myself ever since. You know, I don't know why I always tell myself, why did I ever sell properties? But I sold it, I tend to really exchange it into a multi family, but like, still I'm like, don't I even sell it? I should've refied it or something.

Mike DeHaan: [14:42] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [14:42] Sure.

Mike DeHaan: [14:43] Yeah. I mean, you know, that temptation always comes around. But no. I I love the that breakdown though. The 8% cash on cash return, it went 20% down. And that was back then. I think that a big issue that a lot of people run into, especially when they're doing like this virtual investing, you're looking for like an easy button or whatever, they have unrealistic expectations on returns. Yes. And that was true in the past. And now it's even more true because you have all these people that are like big dicks on Instagram talking about, I get infinite cash on cash return. Like, I don't have any money in

Calvin Chin: [15:10] the deal.

Mike DeHaan: [15:10] I use other people's money, whatever. Yeah. But like, for the longest time, people were like, oh, I want a 12 of 15% cash on cash return. Yeah.

Calvin Chin: [15:19] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [15:19] Right? Because you're investing at that point. You were not a real estate professional yet. Were an investor. An investor, you should be looking at returns, not at like the velocity of your money necessarily.

Dan Austin: [15:29] Yeah. Well, I would add to that too, is like, you might get that overall, just not today. Yeah. So if you're if you're first buying your property as an 8% cash on cash, but that might actually get better as the market performs better if you're investing in a correct a good market. Right?

Calvin Chin: [15:43] Yeah. And and Daniel, man, I I wanna, like, hone in on that because I feel like that's something that people don't understand a lot. Like, my best forming deals are the deals I've held for the law. Oh, yeah. Right? They've you've you've stabilized it, you've you've able to, you know, increase those rents or did renovations that you needed value add, and then once you're stabilized, like your cash flow will really, really well, but people would think that, oh, I buy real estate and day, month one I'm getting those rent checks or cash flow, like no, that's not, you're that stabilization period that I don't think a lot of people talk about, that a lot of gurus online would ever talk about because that doesn't sell, but like that's the reality, right? The reality is you gotta go in, you gotta make it your own, like we do a of multi family where we value add we'll call it, but like some of them are returning from Cs to Bs, right? C class properties, B class properties and that doesn't happen overnight. Like, that takes years potentially, right, to stabilize that fully to get to a point where you're cash flowing well. I think that's something that in our society of I want it yesterday This is know, people don't understand.

Mike DeHaan: [16:40] Yeah. You're you're completely right, and people's time just frame just gets warped. And people even will say to to me, you know, they're like, I feel like you scale up so quickly. And was like, well, it's been five years. That is quick if you look at life, I guess. If you look at what's happened over the last five years, there's a lot of stuff. That's a lot of time to make big changes. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And people tend to lose sight of that. Yeah. No. So that that's cool. So that was your first investment. How did the transition go from making that first investment to getting full time into real estate? Like what was that sort of timeframe? What was your portfolio like? Yeah. When did you decide to make that leap?

Calvin Chin: [17:20] Yeah. So, you know, I have to get my ass kicked for the following three years after that, right, of just doing deals after deal.

Mike DeHaan: [17:27] Yeah. Let's talk about that real real quick then. What are like, I guess, some lessons that you learned? What are those those ass kickings that you took?

Calvin Chin: [17:32] Yeah. Let me kinda backtrack one. So you asked me for my first deal. So that was our first deal that we bought as an investment property, right? But the deal was for that when we were like, just so brand new and just like learning everything and feeling overwhelmed, a lot of people do when they first get in. My natural instinct was like, why don't I just go give money to an investor? I'll earn that. I'll be a part of that deal and I'll I'll earn that way. Definitely. Me and my wife, we saved about 100 k up at the time, and we found a flipper in San Francisco. We're like, we'll be a private money lender for that flipper. Right? And that way we can learn on hand, on the deal itself. Right? And so we gave her a 100 k, handshake deal, she sold it, we went to the closing table, get our capital back, our interest, and she's like, Calvin, I don't have any money. I moved it over to a development project in Reno that I'm working on, never asked us once. Oh jeez. And that was eight years ago, and we still have not seen that money since and we haven't seen her since. Right, that was No way. Brutal ass ticcing that I took.

Mike DeHaan: [18:33] That's crazy. Yeah. This is like a prominent flipper?

Calvin Chin: [18:37] I wouldn't say she's a prominent flipper but in a community that

Mike DeHaan: [18:41] we're wanna put her

Calvin Chin: [18:41] on blast right now? Let I'm not gonna I Yeah. Look back at that experience now, and if she ever is listening to, you know, any of these podcasts or whatever, it's probably one of the best things that ever happened to

Mike DeHaan: [18:52] us.

Calvin Chin: [18:52] Yeah. Sure. Right? And I say that because, one, it made us way better investors, it gave us way thicker skin, it made us understand what to look out for, and it's not all rainbows and butterflies. And two, it made us way better peeped up because I knew I never wanted that to ever happen to anyone else ever again. Right? So admit us who we are today, I look back at that now and I smile about it because and people think I'm crazy about it, but it's like, dude, like, it's all about the abundance mindset about it, right? It's like, if I looked at it as, you know, why is this happening to us, this sucks, I'm an idiot, like all that stuff, then you know, we wouldn't be talking right now. I'd be probably in the cubicle still working my WTU just hating my life, but that experience was almost like a slingshot effect of like allowing us to fail pretty deeply, right, and call it really expensive education, but it made us be like, alright, like, we have to make a decision now. We can't fail, we don't quit, so let's just keep on moving forward and make sure that we don't make the same mistake ever again, right, and just be more cautious. And I think our lives in general, alright, I think people are scared to fail, but one of the things I I truly truly believe in is that, you know, what separates people that make it in this industry or not, are the people that recover fast from failure, because everyone's gonna fail no matter what. Yep. Yeah. Right? So if you can recover fast and learn from those and and be better from it, then that's what's gonna separate you from the pack.

Dan Austin: [20:09] Yeah. That's awesome. I love that too. You said you can't fail if you don't quit. Mhmm. That's so valid.

Mike DeHaan: [20:15] Yeah. The maturity that you had though, I guess like the big picture financial maturity to understand that and to keep moving forward is 100% where most people stop. Because, like, they have a, you know, like a broke mindset around money. And it it's a challenging thing to overcome. I mean, you were in a position where you had been educating yourself. You knew there was upside. You knew there was opportunity out there. And, yeah, you had taken the the easier path, it felt like. But that education piece, I think, is something that is super overlooked by people. Because if you are diligent about developing that education and making sure that you are understanding the opportunities that are out there and what other people are doing, how you can do the same thing, it's much easier to overcome those big losses and those challenges. Even though a $100 on like the first go around, $100,000 loss, I don't know if I would've stomached that. That's pretty brutal.

Dan Austin: [21:06] That is definitely tough.

Calvin Chin: [21:08] Yeah. Yeah. So Warbuffin has a quote. He says, you gotta learn from mistakes, but it doesn't have to be a rep.

Mike DeHaan: [21:13] Yep.

Calvin Chin: [21:13] And to your point, like, Mike, I totally wholeheartedly believe in that, man. It's like, if I had a mentor that like, I could like replicate systems I knew, like, I could lean on and like understand and build systems the right way, that would've never happened to us, right? But Yeah. Right. But you know, hey, lesson learned, right? But education is definitely what breeds the confidence and the empowerment to go take action. If you don't have that, then you're kind playing with fire, like I hope this you go from like, I hope this works out, I think it's a good deal, I hope this works out to like, you know, when you know it and YouTube probably, like when you guys see a deal, it's like, you know it's a good deal, right? Because you've the experience and the education to do so. So I want people to go from like, thinking it's a good deal, which is like, oh man, I really hope this works out, to know like, oh, I know this is gonna work out, and you've been in the worst case scenario, I've stress test this deal enough to make sure that even if rates increase by double, unprecedentedly in a year, then we're gonna be okay, so we're not gonna lose money, so.

Mike DeHaan: [22:02] Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Austin: [22:03] Yeah, you gain that so much through experience, and you don't always know what the outcome's going to be, but you said it right, you're stress testing deals, and you're taking risk that is in alignment with your skill set, your abilities, and your overall financial picture to be honest, Mike and I might take a bigger risk on a deal, a deal that fits, maybe it's a smaller deal for us, but on the risk scale, it's higher because it fits into our, basically, our financial situation where, you know what, it's worth it. Like, the upside's so

Calvin Chin: [22:30] much more worth than the downside.

Dan Austin: [22:32] So let's take the risk. Yeah. You know? But then, if you don't have the experience to understand that it's risky, you could really get yourself into trouble and and that's where people quit.

Calvin Chin: [22:40] Yeah. It's like understanding risks, right, and then then, you know, risk mitigation, which is like your own skill set, your team, right? Like, what do you guys comp like? Exactly. Some people might like go to a construction project for example, and be like, oh yeah, we have a team that's all set for this, you know, we could absolutely do this or another person might walk in that same project and be like, oh man, like, I know I've heard on BiggerPods that these are the deals, like, I smell money I think, right? So I'm gonna go do that deal, but they don't have that team in the background and then they go in and like, shit. I'm messed up because I don't know why I actually gotta operate this. Yes.

Mike DeHaan: [23:10] Yeah. And don't even know what they don't know. Yep. Awesome. So so let's go back to the that transition then from the w two into full time real estate. So you had your first big loss. You're having, you know, getting your butt kicked with you're doing some of your virtual stuff, it sounds like. At some point though, you gotta build up and you're like, I'm gonna walk away from the w two and become a full time real estate person. So was that as a as an investor first or an agent first? Or what did that look like?

Calvin Chin: [23:36] Yeah, so it was so I'm not an agent, right, I'm just an investor. Oh, you're

Mike DeHaan: [23:40] not an agent? Oh, okay, I

Calvin Chin: [23:40] didn't realize that. My wife is, my wife's an agent, so she'll to the broker side of things, but yeah, so it sounds a lot easier, right, said than done. So, you know, from the Dallas property, we just, you know, wrote a random mistake, got our next deal, made some different mistakes, but never made the same ones, and just kept on doing deals, getting better and better, and eventually got to a point where, you know, that passive income was placing my base salary, right? Right. So I had a decision to make, and the decision in my W-two was, do I continue to move forward, right, or not, right? And I remember I had a situation where they were like grooming me to take over leadership of my team, and they'd offered me the job, and I knew at that point, like this is that fork in a row where people talk all the time, like, either I'm doing that, I'm all in on climbing the ladder or I'm out. Right. And I knew I didn't ever, in my heart, I knew I didn't wanna do the corporate side, but to be honest, it was hard. Like even when we built up in a passive income, it still took me about two, three years to quit because I had an identity crisis, right? My identity crisis was that I felt that I was that person, right?

Calvin Chin: [24:43] That was my identity, I was tech sales guy, And if I didn't have that identity, who am I? I'm a real estate investor? Like what does that actually mean though? Yeah. Like do I just go out and just buy deals, and that's all I do on a day to day basis? And I was like, is that possible? Right? And then, in kind of just stepping more into that further of identity of not even just a real estate investor, but for me it was like attributes of like, who's the type of person do I wanna be if I didn't have this identity tied to being a tech sales guy? And for me it was someone that was a value creator, an action taker, a leader, a visionary, an entrepreneur, someone that could add value to other people, right? Matter of fact. And once I kind of figured that out, it was a lot easier to kind of disposition this old identity that didn't really actually serve me anymore, but it still took two, three years. So I wouldn't say it was an easy decision. It was it was a very, very tough decision, but I'm so happy that we we did make that decision ultimately. Yeah. That's a fascinating perspective. I don't

Dan Austin: [25:37] know that I've heard anybody talk about the identity crisis. Mhmm. Even though you know you didn't like your w two, but the identity that you have wrapped up in that life to switch to real estate investor, think people overlook that challenge a lot too.

Calvin Chin: [25:49] Yeah. Let me add something to that. I mean, I'll go even deeper on that. Really for me, my self worth at the time was so wrapped around my w two income, my commissions, right? If I were, you know, one of the top 5% of my company, like, I was so wrapped around that identity as a person. It's not a healthy way to live, for sure, but Interesting. I was like, that's what gave me my my self that's why I thought my parents were proud of me because I had a good job, making good money in in a And good it almost had a fat towards, like, very externally validating, but not internally validating. And when you separate those two things, and I worked a lot with my coach on that, it's like, separate those two things, right, because really true fulfillment is not gonna come from, you know, making just a lot of money, but it's gonna come from, you know, a balance of everything. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [26:32] Do you find that the family expectations weighed on you?

Calvin Chin: [26:35] Oh bro, dude, so much man. I don't know what you man, dude. I come from an Asian background, I don't if you could tell dude, but we My definitely did parents are like buy the book, go to college, get good grades, get a good job, concord letter, you know, have grandkids, you know, all that stuff. That was my dad's path and you know, he was, you know, he did well on his path but that's I am so grateful for the opportunity that he allowed us to be able to do these kind of things but at the same time, that perspective, that pressure, if you will, from parents, especially family, tough and even in the beginning it was like, oh yeah, do some real estate but like, you know, don't quit your job, that's crazy, right? Got to a point where I bought the real estate up and up, where I was okay, I'm gonna quit and they were okay about it, they were like, oh, was stoked about it, but now that Mucine on the other side of it, crushed that, he's like, oh, yeah, like, I knew it all along, I was with you. Yeah, I believed in you those whole time. Yeah, right.

Mike DeHaan: [27:32] Now I I asked I had a similar boat. So I quit my I had an engineering job, and I quit that in 2018. Yeah. With no real sort of plan and agenda. I wasn't even into real estate yet. Had nothing going on.

Dan Austin: [27:42] I was

Mike DeHaan: [27:43] like, I just hate this. I've been doing it for five years.

Calvin Chin: [27:45] Yeah. I can't do

Mike DeHaan: [27:46] something different. And whenever I talk to people, number one question everyone always asks me is, how did you convince your wife to let you do that? She was easy because I was just a miserable person, and she knew that I was gonna be less miserable. The hardest conversation was with my parents. 100 Yeah. When I had to go and say, yeah, so that career that you guys like to go and tell your friends at the gym about that I have, know, worked at Boeing and all these things, I'm not gonna do that anymore. Like, are you gonna do? I don't know.

Calvin Chin: [28:12] Just like Andy's.

Dan Austin: [28:13] Yeah. I don't have a plan,

Calvin Chin: [28:15] that's a hard one to solve for sure. Friends are like, dude, Mike's an idiot, what is he doing? Absolutely. And then now here you are, right, they're like, oh yeah, Mike's awesome, no, I'm glad you did that, I totally inspired her to do that, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [28:30] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting. So I guess, when you made that transition though, how did you feel comfortable with that identity shift? Because I imagine you didn't, like, leave your job, and you're like, alright, I'm a full time real estate investor, I am setting my alarm for 10AM tomorrow, know, and I'm gonna sleep in. You just don't seem like that type of person.

Calvin Chin: [28:49] No, man. I mean, so from there, right, it's when you become your own, you control your own time, at least for me at least, I work 10 times more. Nice, sir. In a good way, but it's not work, right, it's also that I love doing no matter what. So you know, it was grind, but like way more passionate about vision of like, what I really wanted to accomplish, right? So easy one at that point was that the real estate stuff, right? It was like, alright, the real estate stuff, we just done a few multi family deals at that point, so I knew that like that kind of process, so it was kind of just replicating that over and over and kind of scaling that up and building that up. We started a coaching business as well at the same time, because I knew that, you know, me in my inner hearts of hearts, what always gave me fulfillment was like helping other people in the path, and us having that experience with 100 ks, us losing that, like us not wanting that to happen to anyone else, like giving the systems to make sure that no one else had that same thing. So people always like worry about like, and I had the same worries like, I'm not gonna be able to fulfill my time like in the day, that's false, I fulfilled my time with like so much stuff that I was so busy, that first like year and a half was just like such a blur in the best way possible, it was like one of the happiest times of my life because it was just like, you're building something, you're chasing for yourself, right?

Calvin Chin: [29:58] Legacy generational thing like, all that stuff, and that excitement like, you you don't need alarm, right, you wake up and I'm pumped, like, let's go do this. And yes, there's some tough times, I'm not gonna, you know, sit here and say it was all freaking rainbows and butterflies, like, start a business, you create operations systems, all that stuff, you deal with other people, have employees, like, there's a lot of things that go into that, but building culture, you find a lot about yourself, your patients that you thought you had, but you don't have, and but eventually, you know, you get to a

Dan Austin: [30:25] point where you come on

Calvin Chin: [30:25] the other side of that and you're like, wow, like, okay, cool, like I've had moments like this many times where it was like, I talk to my wife, I look at things, I'm like, wow, we built it. This is freaking awesome. Uh-huh. And that's so rewarding right there.

Dan Austin: [30:36] Yeah. That is cool. 100%. That is so Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [30:39] I love that. So what was the initial focus, I guess, of your business? So you said you had like all these different things, was all of that the intention when you left? Or like, did that all just kind of like come out

Calvin Chin: [30:51] I mean, when you're in that decision making process of leaving or not, you're like, what would I do? Like, I'm gonna have pull my tab. Yeah. And I knew it was always gonna be like in the real estate industry of something, right? And so focus was definitely on scaling up the multifamily side of things and the coaching business, those are the first two focuses. Then it went into my wife's brokerage business, so helping build that out and then went into property management, so that's, you know, what we're doing right now, into other business endeavors like the wellness center, wellness retreat center, things like that. So that's kinda we're slowly adding. I have this, like, big vision in my mind of, like, just being, like, a serial entrepreneur, like, having different vertically integrated adjacent businesses that have something to do with real estate, but like are maybe not just just real estate. And I think it's like, one of the dudes on Shark Tank, he was at the tenant conference with Ben Cardone, and Ben Cardone asked him, he's like, hey, what would be, if you were down to your last million bucks, what would you invest in? Right? This guy said, it was Robert Hajkovich, whatever his name is, I forgot his name really, but he was like, hey, I would actually invest in real estate. And Grant Cardone was like, well, why? You're a business guy. And he's like, well, because that's the foundation of everything, right? You have that foundation, you get some passive income coming in from that, and it's gonna open my mind and make me feel more comfortable and abundant to be able to go buy other businesses.

Calvin Chin: [32:04] Right? So that's kind of the transition that we're kind of making right now, it's one of the, obviously the real estate will always be there, We're gonna continue to build that out, but more on, how can we create more businesses adjacent to that, help impact people, and, you know, can add value to people's lives as well.

Mike DeHaan: [32:19] How did you come to the decision to start creating these new businesses as opposed to taking your core businesses and trying to just like go to the moon with those ones? That's something that people ask us a lot.

Calvin Chin: [32:31] Yeah. Yeah. So there's, Jason, viewpoints on this, and I've gone back and Like, one side is like the one thing. Right? Like hey, focus on the one thing that makes you money and just double, triple down on that, right? And the other one is like, have multiple businesses that crush, right? And so for me, I look in Cheryl, right, and say like, what actually gets me excited? Like, I'm I'm more of a person that likes to get the business off the ground, start it off, get it to be to a point where it's going well, and then find an operator, put them in place, then get you know, on to the next thing. Right? That's me personally. I get bored pretty fast of like, alright, cool, like, doing the same things over and over again. If that's you, I think that's perfect, right, I would go and just find out one thing that gets you joy and and that's the one thing and just scale that up. It's not like those other other businesses don't give me joy, I I still find lots of joy now, right, but I also find my most passion that gives me the most energy in life is growing something, building something, right? And then not operating it after that, but but growing it, building it, finding someone that loves operating it, and then moving on to the next one. And still being, you know, you're never gonna be disconnected from those old stuff, like, you're still always gonna be connected, and I'm I'm still very connected to everything.

Calvin Chin: [33:39] But I I find the most joy, like, building those systems out and in a crazy way, like, and I'm sure a lot of your listeners who are business owners would understand this as well, but just having the pressure and this, I guess the uncomfortableness of building a business, I hate but I love. Mhmm. Right? It sucks, but it's like I love it because on the other end of it, you're like, wow, we overcame all these challenges, we created all these systems and strategies, and now I'm on to the next, right? And so it's someone told me a quote this morning in my pod actually, it was pressure is a privilege, and I was like, yeah, that's awesome because it is, right? Like, we get to have these problems and, you know, the best, CEOs in the world, I'm reading the Bob Wiger book right now, the Disney CEO, he was talking about like all the different like stuff that he has to go through on a day to day basis, all these problems, they're not problems, like he loves waking up in the morning and solving these problems, right? That's the mentality that he has all people have done. I'm like, I love those problems at the end of it, in the middle of it, like, ah, this this is a lot of stuff that's going on, but like, but if you look at it in the viewpoint of like, oh, this is fun, like, we're solving these problems, they're not, you know, they're not long term problems, but they're what's in front of us right now and how do we solve it? And that's the fun part of it, so. Right.

Calvin Chin: [34:47] And I'm assuming that's kinda how you probably are pivoting to these other businesses and are integrating is you're like, this is

Dan Austin: [34:52] a problem in my business, let's pivot and solve that problem, which ends up becoming a new business or, you know, a new vertical for you, like proper manager.

Calvin Chin: [35:00] Yeah. 100%. Exactly. They're just, yeah, parts of our business are like, yeah, we could do that, we could do that better. Yeah. That's kinda what Mike and I have found with a lot

Dan Austin: [35:07] of the creation we've had, it's because we're trying to solve a problem,

Calvin Chin: [35:10] and then, low and behold,

Dan Austin: [35:11] a business pops out from you, oh, cool. Other people might have this problem, or this might solve something else.

Calvin Chin: [35:16] And it's a whole aspect of a control too, right? Like, early on I started out, I self vanish, right, but you can do like, can self vanish, know, your few properties, five, ten properties, right? It still sucked, right? But then I had learned from the insurance and I was like, oh, I'm a third party that out, right, and I did that for a while, right, until we got into the hundreds of units and then I was like, you know what, I don't feel like I have control of my properties anymore, right, because I'm relying on this property manager, I tell them what to do, sure, but do they actually get done on the past time? You know, they don't care as much as you do. Right? So let me get my control back, let me bring it vertically integrated, and then move on from there.

Mike DeHaan: [35:49] I love it. It's kind of like a selfish question a

Calvin Chin: [35:52] little bit. I don't if

Mike DeHaan: [35:52] this will relate to too many listeners. How do you handle your investing in tangent with your business? So this is something that we have been dealing with. So like when Dan and I, we first started working together, we were an investment business. Mhmm. K? Like, our main thing was we were looking for opportunities, you know, we would have transactions, don't think you don't want. But at the core, we were using the business to buy assets. Now we are in a position where our businesses are producing significantly more revenue than they're producing investment opportunities. Mhmm. Okay. For you as an entrepreneur and just like individually, like, has your investment criteria changed? Are you still looking for, like, the same stuff that you're looking for when you started as a full time investor? Like, how do your businesses kind of like support your investing? Because that's where, you know, long term wealth comes from, right? But when it's no longer your focus, you're not just like an investment business, you have to sort of change your mindset a little bit.

Calvin Chin: [36:46] Yeah. That's a that's a really, really good question. So I look at it as I'm an investor first at Fort Worth, right? So the businesses I have, they're supporting my investment journey, because for me it's about wealth, not about being rich and I don't want it at a job, right? But all these things, so like we have a coaching community where like we coach people, we also raise capital, right, and do deals together from them. Right? So that's vertically integrated as well on the investing side, and we're helping people do that too. The property management business, right, that's, you know, by doing that, we're we're actually saving money for the property and and enhancing the quality and the experience of the tenants, right, and and making their place live, and and ultimately making them more valuable too, right, by So increasing that's increasing that as well. So at the end of the day, like for me, and our businesses are different, mean, yeah, like obviously our businesses make more active income than our properties do, but our properties make probably way more money in general in terms of the cash flow and the equity that we build on those versus our active business, and again that might flip flop, and when that flip flops, maybe the viewpoint changes, but right now for me at least, I'm an investor first and foremost in any business I create along the way, is to enhance the business or the investments itself. Cool, yeah, makes sense.

Mike DeHaan: [37:57] What does your portfolio look like right now?

Calvin Chin: [37:59] We have about two thirty one doors, straight across anywhere from California to Hawaii now, to Utah, to Texas, to Kansas City, to Tennessee, to Alabama. Sweet.

Mike DeHaan: [38:13] Are are you a GP?

Dan Austin: [38:14] And exclusively, you're buying multifamily now?

Calvin Chin: [38:17] Yeah. We do multifamily. Correct. We'll do an occasional single family. Hate doing the the single families, but I'll well, if it's a streaming deal or whatever, we'll we'll do the occasional one, but Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [38:26] And you're you're GP on all those?

Calvin Chin: [38:28] Yeah. Yeah. So we actually don't syndicate most of them when we own ourselves. Nice. That's it. Sometimes we'll bring in partners, like JV partners to do deals with, but most of all, we just own them ourselves. I I like that control aspect a bit more. A syndication, you're kinda stuck with an exit strategy. Right? You need to sell your people to have returns, and I I I just don't like that because I'm a I'm a long term buy and hold guy, that doesn't always align with, you know, you if you're syndicating, you know, could be 50 LPs on your on your deal, and you're like, someone's gonna come up with something and they're gonna need some money and you need to exit and you're forced to exit at that point. Yeah. And it's not always the best financial decision to make when you have to exit too. Right? And so you but you're kinda tied to that structure. Absolutely.

Mike DeHaan: [39:11] I just always like to clarify, because one of my biggest real estate pet peeves is all these freaking dorks on Instagram that are like, I have 300 units. It's like, bro, you're an LP in a fund. Like, you don't own anything. Yeah.

Calvin Chin: [39:22] Exactly. Yeah. So So. Yes. I should get in more LP stuff. I don't I've only owned one LP stuff, one LP thing right now, but Yeah. It's really because it's one of my buddies and Yeah. Yeah. I don't I just like the control. I'm a control freak, right now. I'm young enough where, like, I can I I wanna do all this stuff, but when I get older, I'll probably, you know, reverse that into a little more passive stuff? Multifamily, it's great for equity and cash flow, it's not as passive as people think it is, right? Like you're doing stuff on a day to day basis to manage it. Yeah. At some point, we we probably wanna change that portfolio into that means it's little more passive.

Dan Austin: [39:55] I wanna hear a little bit about this wellness center you just you said you just bought.

Calvin Chin: [39:59] Is it in Hawaii? Yeah. Hawaii. Yeah. What's the plan there? Like, what does that look like? Yeah. So it's one of our passion projects. One of our our partners, he's one of my operators in in the property management business and our investment business, but him and his wife, we're really good friends with, and our visions align in terms of just helping people out. Right? And so for her, I'm a big believer in operators in general. Right? So for her, her mom had schizophrenia, right, and was diagnosed and then kind of ruined their they had a lot of real estate here in in San Francisco, and that kinda made it very difficult to run those, and they lost a couple properties and whatnot. And so her whole big vision and mission in life is to open up a mental illness wellness center, retreat center, right, for people. And so, yeah, we've known her for many many years now and an opportunity came out to partner with them to do a deal with them, and so what we're doing is we're doing that deal with them where that retreat center, it's a retreat space. Right? So maybe two retreats for mental wealth that they're gonna run that business on, and then the rest of the time, we're gonna we're gonna rent out that area, that space to other retreat centers, whether that's corporate retreats, whether that's just other wellness retreats and operators, whether it's our even own our own coaching retreats that we do. So you know, that's the Hawaii ideology, having like a sacred space to be able to to really go deep with people in terms of their own, whether it's mental mental wealth, I'll call it, or financial wealth, or even fitness, but a way to, you know, to do all that all those things and have a space for that. Right.

Dan Austin: [41:29] So is it kinda like maybe like a large home with some property or is it actual like commercial facility?

Calvin Chin: [41:35] Yeah. So it's a it's a large agricultural land. That's right. It's Jurassic Park. Oh, And so Oh, nice. It's a couple acres, I believe it's like two and a half, three acres, a lot of land in Hawaii, overlooks the ocean. It's a giant house with a side house and then another, like, AD type of situation. Our plan, two phases. One, we're gonna do some light renovations on it, make it or so we'll put more beds and heads kind of kind of situation. And then step phase two is Right. Adding an acidity pool and like other amenities around the area, so again, more a passion thing, like, you know, if it takes off financially, awesome, but we're not looking at it to like, we want money, it's more just of a, you know, how can we support like vision in life and then Mhmm. When we think about, like, legacy and, like, what do you really remember for? Like, that to me is something that that juices me up of, how can we leave an impact on this world in a better place? Nice. I love that. That is really cool.

Mike DeHaan: [42:26] And, you know, I know it's not fully for financial, but I like to like believe that people will always wanna live and go to Hawaii. So I'm sure you'll do okay with it if you look at it with like a long term. Yeah.

Calvin Chin: [42:37] That land is always gonna be there. Right? And Exactly. Right? It's very limited and valuable.

Mike DeHaan: [42:42] It is. It's never gonna you know, it's a small island. It's never gonna lose interest to the greater human population. So

Calvin Chin: [42:48] Yeah. Yeah. It's Hawaii. At the worst case, know, over there. Right? Oh, tusk. Right? Oh, no.

Mike DeHaan: [42:53] Boo. Awesome, man. Good stuff. Alright. We're gonna start to wrap up the show here. We're gonna go into our end of show questions. First question, what is your craziest real estate investing story? And the $100,000 loss is pretty crazy. But if you have any other crazy stories, know, it could be a crazy tenant, big win, big loss. Only rule is you're not allowed to talk about finding a dead person and property because people always come with those stories and I don't like those.

Calvin Chin: [43:20] Yeah, yeah. So I'll tell you the funniest story that I had was when I was so self managed or remote at C. Families, we had, we'll call her a menage a trois of a reality show situation happening on our properties where one tenant was hooking up with another tenant and then his neighbor was also hooking up with her and that other guy did not know about that, and so when they found out about it, yep, guns were exchanged, words were exchanged, no one no one got hurt, right? But but such an interesting thing, just, you know, the Marauder 12 stuff, so we, you know, had to unfortunately evict all three of them out, but but what we found in the the actual units itself was just real nasty stuff but I'll leave it at that, you can use your imagination of what how old

Dan Austin: [44:05] Dude, oh my god.

Mike DeHaan: [44:07] Would they have like a sex dungeon going on in there or what?

Calvin Chin: [44:09] Basically. Yeah, basically. Sounds like it. So that was the craziest experience that we had in our business, but, you know, comes with the territory. Reason for eviction, Minaj etoire. Yeah. Right. I only have four units and three of them were hooking up each other kind of thing, that Yeah. That kind of leaves a bad cultural taste in the performance of the building also just that, you know, the intensity of the development as

Dan Austin: [44:33] Yeah, well, fourth person is just not getting any action, that's not fair, yeah, you

Calvin Chin: [44:38] can't, what's going on, why am I getting it? It's not fair.

Mike DeHaan: [44:41] Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Calvin Chin: [44:41] That's funny.

Dan Austin: [44:42] That's funny. That that reminds us of the house that Mike and I bought or I guess we wholesaled technically that had two women dating upstairs and then their ex girlfriends were dating in the downstairs unit. So there's four women, all exes of each other, all And living I'm like, what is going on here?

Calvin Chin: [45:03] Playboy Mansion of the War Room, that property Biggs. Of middle aged Yeah. That's a good fun thought, man.

Mike DeHaan: [45:12] It was interesting for sure. Yeah. There was a there was a lot of baggage on that one.

Calvin Chin: [45:16] Yeah. Yeah. Double dates are are interesting there for sure.

Mike DeHaan: [45:19] Yeah. Right. Exactly. Cool. Alright. So next question, what is the number one tip you would give to a small time investor looking to get started oh, sorry, to a new investor looking to get started or to a small time investor letting take their business to the next level?

Calvin Chin: [45:35] Alright. So for a new investor getting started, and it's it's gonna hurt us a lot, but just go do it. Go take action. Right? Like, I think the biggest thing that people run into is themselves. Right? They they come up with this big, I can't do this, so much fear, all that stuff, and they build it up to be so much bigger than it is, but I work with so many people that they're doing their first deal and they always tell me at the end of the after their first deal, like, wow, that actually wasn't that hard. Mhmm. And it isn't, right? If you make it if you make it hard in your mind, then it will be hard. If you understand that, hey, this is this is a process that you gotta learn, just like going to a new job or bringing a new skill, right, you just gotta put the reps in and and once you do, it's it becomes super easy. That's So one of the reasons for someone that is doing it and wanting to scale, so biggest part of scaling is networking and being around good people, right? And I wanna highlight the be around good people because it's not just about networking with anyone and everyone, but networking with people that have the intangibles of authentically being a good person and having integrity because there are a lot of people out there that talk a lot, that talk the talk but can't walk the walk, right? And those are the people you want to avoid, so being good at at sniffing out bullshit fast is is a is an awesome skill on on scale. Yep.

Calvin Chin: [46:47] But networking is is definitely big with the right people.

Mike DeHaan: [46:50] Yeah. I don't think that can be the integrity part can't be, you know, overstated enough. And I tell people to, more often than not, the people that have the most glamorous, you know, online presences, the biggest marketing funnels, the most aggressive follow-up tactics should be a little bit of a red flag for you.

Calvin Chin: [47:09] Yeah. Yep. 100%. Absolutely.

Dan Austin: [47:10] All the time. If it's a get rich quick scheme in real estate, it's probably not a good person to

Calvin Chin: [47:15] network Yeah, That's that integrity, that's that integrity problem there. Yep, 100%, totally agree with that.

Mike DeHaan: [47:21] Cool. Alright, last question, where can people find you, follow you and reach out to you if you'd like them to do so?

Calvin Chin: [47:26] Yeah, I'm easy to find just on Instagram, calvanchin r e I, Facebook, just calvanchin, and then you can find us on our website, zencosuniversity.com or zencoscapital.com. Always happy to to share knowledge, and if anyone ever wants to ask questions, just hit me up, always happy to share.

Mike DeHaan: [47:43] Cool. And just one more thing to add on to that. Who is the most ideal person that should reach out to you about like your program or or the stuff that you do?

Calvin Chin: [47:52] Yeah. So ideal person, if you're looking for mentorship or getting coached on real estate investing, someone that one, is a good person, right? I can't stress that enough, right? So I was like, I don't care about you if you don't know anything about real estate or not, it's all about, for me, like, you know, we're trying to build a community of people that are surrounded by good people too, right? And so that's number one no matter what, I still interview every single person that comes along in our community because I wanna make sure that they meet our integrity meter, if you will. And so one that is genuinely a good person that cares about other people's success, number one. And number two is just is hungry and curious for for knowledge and and to actually either get into real estate as an investment for the first time and ashore to scale their business. Maybe they have one or two properties already, and they're looking to get into 10 to 20. Right? And how how do I do that? So the types of of people I would say. Cool.

Mike DeHaan: [48:44] Awesome. Good stuff. Alright. So dirt bags, don't reach out to Calvin. He's gonna talk to you. If you're a dirt bag, go go start like a Geegly franchise or something. If you're dirt bag,

Calvin Chin: [48:54] go pass Anne. Yeah. Right. Oh. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [48:56] For us. So awesome. Well, thanks so much, Calvin. I really appreciate you coming on the show, man. And seriously, guys, if you got some value from Calvin here, and I'm sure that you did, go ahead and reach out to him on Instagram, check out his course he has or I guess his his coaching program, super awesome guy who's doing a lot of big things. And if you can't tell, he actually does give a shit about you and your success. Now, like a lot of the other folks out there. So take him up on the opportunity to speak with him and see what he has going on. Besides that, guys, please share this with anyone else who might find interesting and leave us a five star review. It's a great way to help us go up in the rankings. If you put it in front of more people, and you show other people kind of like cold people that are just researching podcasts that ours doesn't suck by leaving us a review. It's a great way to verify that other people enjoy Besides that, go to collectingkeyspodcast.com/free. Get your free five step guide to start getting off market leads. Good one, everybody. Appreciate you all listening. See

Speaker 2: [49:56] podcasts, and check us out at collectingkeyspodcast.com for tips and guides on starting your own real estate investment and wholesaling business.