From 2 to 5 Deals a Month: Strategies to Level Up Your Real Estate Business

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] Really quick before the show starts, in case you haven't heard, we have a growing community of investors called the scale community, which is full of people learning to make massive income with their real estate businesses so they can reach financial freedom a little bit faster than building a rental portfolio solely over time because honestly, that takes decades and who has time for that? So if you're an investor who is serious about growing and creating a scalable business without needing to be a slave to it twenty four seven, then go to collectingkeys.com/scale and apply. And if you're a good fit, we would love to have you join the community. So, again, collectingkeys.com/scale. Go ahead and apply, and we'll see if you're a good fit. You'll be amazed at how much you learn about your own business just trying to tee up somebody coming into your business to be successful.

Speaker 2: [0:47] What's going on, guys? On today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast scale show, we are doing something a little bit different than our traditional Monday interviews. And on this episode, we are actually going to be listening in to a group call that we did with our scale community. And don't worry. This will be equally valuable, if not more valuable than a lot of the different interviews that we do. Because in this episode, we are going to be listening into a recording where we are talking with scale members about what it takes to grow from deals a month to five or six deals a month. And we just thought it was a really, really valuable conversation that would also bring a ton of value to just the general listener population. And so, hopefully, you get a lot out of this. These are kind of like a regular kind of conversation that we have within the group. We do these three times a week. And this is the kind of conversation you would like to be a part of within our scale community. You can go to collectingkeys.com/scale. Scroll all the way down to the bottom, put in an application, and we can see if it makes sense for you. Otherwise, we hope you just get a ton of valuable information from this conversation. And, obviously, shares with your friends who are fellow real

Mike DeHaan: [1:53] estate investors looking to grow.

Speaker 2: [1:54] Thanks, everybody, and enjoy.

Mike DeHaan: [1:55] So if you guys missed this an hour ago, I posted in the live calls chat. I'm gonna have a good topic to go over. And Eric and Eric Klein and Mason both had a great question around they're getting to a phase where they are consistently doing two deals a month or three to five deals a month and trying to figure out how exactly to scale beyond that. And if you guys aren't there yet, still a good lesson to, you try to think ahead and plan ahead for when you reach this point, which you all inevitably will. And funnily enough, Dan and Dylan and I, we recorded a podcast today that we talked about this a little bit because I do think that there is this limit that you kind of reach as a single person operation that is inevitable. It seems to be kind of the same range everywhere. And that range seems to be like what I like the four to six deal range. Like, when you are really dialed in with your processes and you're fully committed to your business, you don't have any other distractions. That seems to be kind of like the ceiling of what, like, a single operator can reach. And then from there, you have to be looking to, you expand into a team. And, you know, the reason I think that happens is because you look at the entire pipeline of the business. Right? You have if you're having one person that is doing all the data, ordering all the marketing, doing all the other back end stuff like the accounting and the bookkeeping and everything else. Then that same person is also doing their long term lead follow-up. They're doing their high quality leads.

Mike DeHaan: [3:30] They're going to walk in the property. They're putting together the offers. They are networking to build their buyers list, they're doing the disposition when they get a contract, they're managing the transactions, they're getting the hard money along the properties they're gonna buy, they're managing a flip or two, right? All of a sudden, it's an incredible amount of stuff for a single person to be doing. And I think that ultimately, just run out. Right? There's those three main resources that you have in business, which are money, time, and energy. And when you get to that phase of what seems to be the kind of four to six deals at, like, the high high end for a single person, you're starting to probably make some money, but you're running out of that time, that energy. Right? And so, Eric, and yours, you said you're currently consistently doing two deals per month, and your next goal is to get up to five. What is your current, like, flow look like in your your day and your week? It's very similar to what you just explained about doing that wearing every hat. That's essentially kind

Eric Klein: [4:26] of what I do. I I have, like, kind of a a flow of a month from when I get together, the direct mail marketing, then the phone starts ringing. You know, I started on the hot leads. I try to carry them to the finish line. And then that's where things fall off for me a little bit is the, you know, nurturing the old leads. Past couple weeks, I've had a VA doing that for me. I've been training her on and stuff like that, which is good because that's gotten me back into talking with leads more, just kind of managing the CRM better. And essentially, you know, it's all the back end stuff. And then there's the accounting. There's the transaction coordination side, which is actually that's probably like the what I spend the most of my time doing. It's also what I enjoy doing the most is working with the buyers and title and everything and getting that deal from contract to closing. And like I said, it's kinda it's like the life cycle is essentially about a month. And then next thing you know, here I am. I'm right at that point right now. Leads are slowing down. I'm about to order more more mail, and then the life cycle starts up.

Mike DeHaan: [5:19] Cool. How much mail are you doing per month right now? About 5,000.

Eric Klein: [5:23] You're talking about money or pieces?

Mike DeHaan: [5:26] It's the same thing. $5,000, or is that

Eric Klein: [5:28] 5,000 pieces? The 5,000 piece, I think it's, like, $3,500.

Mike DeHaan: [5:32] Yeah. Cool. So what I would say for you, your current constraints, especially because I know you a little bit from KeyesCon. You're organized. I've heard you on the phone. You know you can close. Right? Now you have your your lead manager, which will help you a lot. Your biggest thing, honestly, will just be to increase that spend and get more opportunities. Right? Increasing like, I would bet that where you are right now, especially where you have that lead manager, you can probably push that budget up to $10,000 a month and still be able to operate just as you. You're gonna be working your ass off. Right? But I think that you could do that pretty comfortably. And that is typically one of like the first barriers that people start to reach is either they aren't monetizing their leads that are old, which you're starting to do that, and you'll probably start to see the fruits of that in the next thirty, sixty days, or they are not simply not spending enough on their systems and their their marketing. Right? Like, you're they're just not giving themselves enough shots at goal. And so that's probably the next thing for you. If you're in a different boat so, like, let's say if if you had answered that you were spending $8,000 a month on marketing right now, but it was still just you and it was there was nobody else on your team, that's when I would say it probably makes the most sense to be bringing on some help to work your pipeline. Whether that's a lead manager, if you're good at closing and you like doing that part, or as an acquisition manager if you wanna be just on the back burner and you wanna be kind of behind the scenes.

Mike DeHaan: [6:54] But that's ultimately what you need to do is you need to bring in additional leverage through humans, right, and people to build out your team.

Dan Austin: [7:02] What's your cost per deal right now then? Is it Low. 3,000, 2,000?

Eric Klein: [7:07] Well, it's increased. Past two months, I've I've jumped on with Sibley Leads, so that's increased my cost per deal. I did this on my first contract last week from an SMS one, which will be a 15 k closing fee. So that's closing here the middle of next month.

Mike DeHaan: [7:21] Great. Nice.

Eric Klein: [7:22] So that has increased the spend. You have been purchasing more systems and now VA. So that's a good question. So as of right now, it has increased. But, you know, but I have definitely seen the deals are starting to go up for sure.

Dan Austin: [7:34] Sure. Yeah. I was just I was mentioning go ahead, Mike.

Mike DeHaan: [7:36] I was in between those, though, if you're at, what, 5,000 pieces in mail, they're 100 and then simply just $2. That means your cost per deal is probably, what, $2,700?

Eric Klein: [7:45] Yeah. About that. Maybe over 3,000. If are we doing, like, operating costs as well? Like, systems? No.

Dan Austin: [7:51] Just marketing. Direct marketing costs. Yeah.

Eric Klein: [7:53] Probably yeah. Probably right around 3,000 then.

Dan Austin: [7:55] Okay. Yeah. So I mean, that's solid. Right? And that tells me that you're getting you're getting what you need to out of your leads. It's not like you're missing, you might be missing some opportunities, but you're not missing a ton. So you don't need to get better at the systematization and the follow-up and having that virtual, having that VA is going help you with that piece as you scale up. Then as you increase your marketing spend, splitting it across four weeks to even out your lead flow, so you're not overwhelming your virtual assistant, not overwhelming yourself. Because I think your biggest constraint will become running that many appointments. Yeah. Getting out and across town and driving to all your appointments and doing that, that'll be your next constraint, which is great. I think you're good at that. If you want to keep doing that, then you need to look at, do I hire another VA? Do I outsource the bookkeeping and all the accounting and stuff you're doing? You could potentially hire a $5 an hour VA type person that does all the back end. Just pick up your crap stuff, right? And so for $800 a month, you're now going to get another x amount of hours of your time to run those appointments, which might be another deal, but chase you for two deals to three to four to five when you get that spend going up and up and up.

Eric Klein: [8:56] Understood. And what that is the part that I enjoy, though, was being like because that's where I close. Like, I don't close on the phone like, Like, I close in people's driveways. Know what I mean? Like, looking at the property, I bring contractors out kind of 75% of the time. They're coming with me. They got their tape measures out. Everybody, you know, they get a real professional feel from that. So that's that's where I close and get deals done anyway. And then if you guys could just unpack quickly. When you say increase marketing spend, so does that mean the the same list and then just hit more people? Because I know I get in there. I whittle it down, like, pulling all the RTSs out, which they're on my cold calling list anyway. And then not PO boxes, not LLCs. Like, am I increased my marketing spend by hitting those or am I branching out, like, more ZIP codes?

Mike DeHaan: [9:37] It's kinda your choice. You're in Madison. Right?

Eric Klein: [9:41] Yes. But the that's where I live. The I invest in the county south of me. It's Rock County, so it's it's very close. Cool.

Mike DeHaan: [9:47] And what's the population size there?

Eric Klein: [9:49] 275,000.

Mike DeHaan: [9:51] Okay. So you got room. But I'd really say it's your choice. Right? You could even split test it a little bit. Right? Do like a little AB test and send a campaign out that is a less filtered list of what you're already targeting. See how it performs. If it doesn't perform decent, you could also like, then you gotta give it a couple months. You could try changing it and instead being more niched down and expanding your area too. Like, I don't know how much of, like, that 230,000 person area you're hitting. Are you, like, kinda concentrated? Are you all over?

Eric Klein: [10:23] It's the whole county that I hit.

Mike DeHaan: [10:25] Okay. Cool. So what I would probably do then to start is scrape down the list a little bit less and just hit the same people that you've been hitting. Because you already know that it's working. Right? And so there's no point in like trying to reinvent and do something new if you already have some efficiency there. And then when it comes to getting your five deals a month, I mean, you can mathematically back into that. Right? So if your average cost per deal right now is $2,700 can do that times five, and you spend $13,000.500 to get five deals mathematically. Right? And then as you approach that, again, say you'll start to reach more constraints, walk in the properties, and those sort of things, and it's your job as a entrepreneur to recognize those and figure out what the new addition needs to be to fix that, whether it's a new system, whether it's a team member, whether it's like a process that you introduce, whatever that looks like. Exactly. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Eric Klein: [11:19] Yeah. Very thorough from my end. Yeah. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate

Mike DeHaan: [11:22] it. Absolutely. I hope you guys are enjoying this episode. We are seriously trying to grow this podcast so that the voice of what it really takes to grow a real estate business becomes kind of the norm versus the guru get rich quick b s that everyone is fed on a daily basis. With so many podcasts out there, it is hard for us to get discovered on our own. So a quick ask, please share this episode on your social media accounts. Be that a real story, whatever. And if you tag me at Mike underscore invest, then I will give you a follow. And I will also send you a DM so that we can have a little chat about your business and any ways I could potentially help you grow. So again, please share it on your socials. Tag me at Mike underscore invests, that's with an s at the end, and I'll follow you. And we can have a little DM and convo about your business. And maybe I can help you grow a little bit, or you could just say what's up to you. That'd be awesome. But appreciate everyone, and thanks so much for helping us grow. Getting to where Eric is right now, you guys, I would say is the hardest part of this business. 100%. The part where you, like, have consistency is the part that feels like it's freaking impossible until you somehow do it. Right? And then all of a sudden, the path to increasing your success is very, very linear.

Mike DeHaan: [12:36] Like, it's literally just increasing marketing spend, starting to know where you're falling off, and then being comfortable enough to introduce people and processes at the different points that you're starting to, you know, recognize that the wheels are falling off a little bit. You know? And being able to do that all will not make sure that you don't buy a deal that you're gonna lose your ass. Right? You can't put yourself under, which is also something that we've seen happen is people sort of get a little bit too complacent. They're trying to scale their folks on there's so many deals, and they're going, I need to hit my five deals a month. This one kinda sucks, but I'm gonna buy it. So I keep my metrics up, then they buy it. And it turns out they're gonna lose $60 on this thing because they didn't. Oh, like respect. K? And that does happen to people too. But getting to where Ericsson is is always hard because, like, you don't quite have, like, the consistency to be able to make mathematical decisions yet. And so when it comes to somebody like Mason, he's not here to, obviously, defend himself. I'm not gonna say anything bad. But he's a different personality than Eric is. Right? And so I would say a big thing that Mason probably is dealing with, and this is more do you remember your disc assessment, Eric? Where you were? D.

Mike DeHaan: [13:44] You're a high d? Yeah. So which is funny. Why are you like a d? Do you have a you must have a c as well.

Eric Klein: [13:50] No. Little I d with a lowercase I.

Dan Austin: [13:53] Yeah. Like d and nothing else. I remember that.

Mike DeHaan: [13:55] How are you so organized? I feel like you're pretty, like, with it. I'm not. You're not. Really. You're just a you're just a great pretender, dude.

Eric Klein: [14:03] Yeah. I I'm organized. I'm not organized on on back end stuff. Like, I'm kinda I kinda hit the ground. Like, the phone starts ringing. I get on appointments, and then I push down as hard as I can. And then all the stuff that falls by the wayside kinda stays by the wayside. You know? Yeah. So I don't ever go back and pick up the pieces.

Mike DeHaan: [14:19] Yeah. That's funny. I had no idea. So I was gonna say because I feel like you and Mason would be probably slightly different on the DISC assessment. Although I feel like Mason's probably more calculated. I just don't think he's organized because he spends a lot of time trying to figure out KPIs and optimize different things. And he's very, I would say, more reserved with his decision making.

Dan Austin: [14:40] So It also it also changes too when people are in learning mode, and I think Mason's still in a little bit learning mode on a lot of those things, which kinda I think does skew your disc a little bit

Mike DeHaan: [14:50] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [14:50] That's true. How you act and react.

Mike DeHaan: [14:52] Yeah. Because yeah. Because where I was gonna go with that is if you're on, like, that more calculated end, realistically, to grow, you're going to need to hire probably a little bit sooner because your biggest issue is gonna be revenue and consistent deal flow. You know? And, like, I mean, not only deal flow, not lead flow, because everyone can pay for more lead flow. Right? And so, Eric, you're good at the closing. So, you know, for you, it's gonna be just increasing spend and increasing your input, right, to get more output. But if you if you guys are people that you know kind of struggle with closing, you struggle with, like, actually getting contracts signed, you really are trying to figure out to grow, but you have some money to spend on systems, everything else, bringing in a salesperson is gonna be the big piece of the changes for you to get you to that three to five deals a month type. I mean, with with Mason as a as a good example too, because he's put himself out there a lot on some of the sales calls. I don't know how many calls you guys have heard us review of Mason's over the, you know, past few months. He's not bad on the phone, but he's not a killer either. Right? Like like, there's been so many calls that we've listened to him, and we joke that, you know, we're all listening to the person's, like, life story, which is fine. He's probably gonna build a rapport, but that's also how he's, like, you know, gets gets friend zoned and doesn't, like, get people across the finish line.

Mike DeHaan: [16:14] You know? Because there's a different kind of relationship building that happens when someone's, like, gonna be comfortable talking to you and, like, giving you the entire situation that they're dealing with, but doesn't necessarily mean they wanna do business with you. And the really good salespeople, they can do that, but also what they call cut to the quick and turn it into a transactional conversation. This is where Cody's really good. Right? And you guys, you know, as you guys continue to learn more from him, you'll start to see this come out because he's really good in taking these natural conversations and turning them into a transactional conversation without it feeling like anything is is happening. It's funny. I was on a meeting with him two days ago, and he goes, oh, remember he's on Zoom. He goes, here really quick. Seller called me. I got a call. And he's left the Zoom on, microphones on. He's, like, talking to the seller. And as I was just saying and listening to it, and I was like, dude, we should, like, just do like, everyone can just come and, like, join an open Zoom link that you have and just listen to you, like, make sales calls for, like, two hours. Because it was fascinating, like, the way that the conversation went and the way that he was, like, so casually being like, oh, well.

Mike DeHaan: [17:20] Yeah. I mean, I guess it makes sense you'd want that, but, I mean, I'm I can make some money too, man. Like, I can't be offering you that. It just doesn't make any sense. And the guy's like, yeah. I know. I know. I was like, but, you know, I I just really wanna be able to pay off my car, like, whatever he said. And there's the the tone and the way that he does it. I'm like, I don't talk to anybody like that. I bet he was a fucking savage when he was in college. He was trying to pick up chicks because he was able to take it from being as friends to work from business very, very quickly. Anyway, back to the main point. If you are somebody that is on, like, the more data back end office part of the business, As a lot of me, a lot of you guys in here, it's that sales piece you're gonna need to get filled very, very quickly, or that efficiency on the sales pipeline. I mean, that was what Dan and I realized early on in our business when we brought on our ACT manager that we had no money to pay. But that was, like, the biggest turning point that we had, You know? And then

Dan Austin: [18:14] have to like it doesn't have to be a permanent thing either when you hire that person as far as you saying I can't do sales. Right. Because you can't do it in the moment. You'll be a much better salesperson once you learn how to figure out how to that you're managing the salesperson. And then you'll feel more comfortable when you're leaning into that role when you need to. I think that's what Mike and I both found out as we didn't like, we got out of like, what would that be? Like survival mindset. Yeah. Like, why don't get this fucking deal closed? You know, we're not putting food on the table. Now your salesperson's doing that. Now you're like, if I don't get them to do this, but now I'm not feeding it. But it just, it moves that survival instinct further away from the deal. So then when you have to fill in and do some of that sales work, it just feels a lot lighter. And so then you might find, hey. Now that I've had the time to figure this out and learn it, that maybe in the future you wanna take that back over. So don't think about anything as forever.

Mike DeHaan: [19:04] Yeah. Well, also to you on that, it's incredible how much you can learn when you are actively managing and overseeing someone that is, like, doing something that you're not necessarily that good at. Right? So I I know for sure that I got better at sales from managing a small sales team for years and reviewing their calls on a regular basis, you know, listening to their cadence, like working with them to overcome objections that we were dealing with, you know, and just like being a part of that, even though I wasn't the one that was doing it, I was the one that was playing armchair quarterback. I learned an incredible amount about sales, and I was I was very surprised at how much I've been able to translate that into doing sales myself with different things. And I'm still not a killer by any means, but I'm definitely better than I was five years ago. And so, Brandon Cheddak, he asked earlier this morning if you guys saw that that he wanted a cadence for, like, a kickoff call with the sales team, what that looks like. And then he said, does it make sense for him to do that with one person? Absolutely, it does. Should we do that every single day, and you should be actively involved in working with them, helping them get better, and you as a result will get better too.

Mike DeHaan: [20:15] Right? You know, not only just as at, like, managing a person, but also in developing the skills necessary. Just saying that goes the other way too. Like, if you are somebody that is hiring out someone to, like, do your data or, like, do you put back parts of your business to your bookkeeping, by overseeing that and having them walk you through what you're doing, you can have your team members teach you things that will make you better at doing it yourself or or learning how to hire someone that's even better than them in the future. Right? And as you guys, as as all as entrepreneurs who are active learners, you'll be surprised at how quickly you probably find you actually surpass their skill set. Right, just because you're gonna be in a position where you're gonna be able to do that. So Cool. And then is there any any questions or anything kind of about that concept or, like, finding that, I would say, like, that constraint in your your business growth? Oh, one more, Eric?

Eric Klein: [21:10] Sure. Mike, I can just speak to what you were just talking about, about how would you hire someone and then train them and oversee them. I've just experienced that over the past kind of three, four weeks. And that's really been everything you just said is like completely true about that, where I was able to reengage with my CRM and like old leads, things like that. I cleared my schedule for her first week for those four hours that she was working, and we just we did calls together. I typed up cold calling scripts like for her I just walked through that entire process, and it was like it was learning everything for a second time. It kinda I felt like I was, like, mastering the process that I felt like I, I don't kind of forgotten about or taken for granted. So I could just second, you know, everything you just said about that that process. So the hiring process, training, and overseeing, it's definitely critical.

Mike DeHaan: [21:53] Yeah. Yeah. And that's a great point. Be amazed at how much you learn about your own business just trying to tee up somebody coming into your business to be successful. Like, something I I've told people is you you never realize quite how disorganized you are until you suddenly hire somebody for a role that you've never hired someone for before, and you're like, goddamn. That whole department or apartment is complete shambles because it's been locked within my brain. And we've dealt with this in every part of our business that we've done. Even as recently as, you know, we just hired someone on to come in and do sales for Simply Leads. Man, what a freaking nightmare all that stuff was because we had nothing no optimization of, like, the lead funnel or the sales process or anything else for that. And so it never fails. That's that's part of business, though, is is learning there. You know? And I'll also say that you need to probably be willing to, like, jump in before things are perfect because if you're always trying to make the process perfect before you hire somebody, you're never gonna get anywhere.

Speaker 5: [22:49] Oh.

Mike DeHaan: [22:50] Because you're always gonna have, like, one more thing that you can make better, and it's really gonna get optimized by somebody coming in and just trying to break the system.

Dan Austin: [22:57] When you go going back to the topic of, like, trying to grow or where you're at, like, I know some of you might be sitting here like, I just don't know. Right? Or you're like, Man, I want to close more deals, but I don't know. Don't fly blind. Mike and I talk about KPIs for a reason. Get your KPIs straight. Like, what is your cost per deal? I mean, that was the first question I asked Eric. I wanted to know his cost per deal because I want to know where he's He told me $8. I'd be like, you got a problem, dude. You're either severely under marketing every single month and not following up your leads or you got some other problems. So get your cost per deal, understand what your cost per lead is, how many phone calls do you have to make, how many times you have to call sellers, you know, calls per contract, contracts to close, all that stuff. We talk about that stuff because it's important and it's easy to diagnose. And now you have a common language you can speak. You can put that out on Slack and post your KPIs and say, hey, who else is looking like this? Or can you know, take a look at this? And we're all running the same business. So we all should have similar KPIs, to be honest, like they're gonna be off by a little bit depending on the market and depending on people's abilities. But it'll tell you right away where your socket and like if you don't you're not following up your leads, all that sort of stuff, how many phone calls are you making every week? If it's not very many, there's probably a reason why you're not closing deals.

Dan Austin: [24:11] And so those are all good things. So don't fly blind, measure things. Even if you don't feel like you're doing any level of scale yet, you know, you haven't even done, you know, one deal yet, like start tracking your KPIs. So as as you do more, those things will trend towards something. They'll either trend towards the average and you're doing good, and now you just need to do more of that, or they'll trend be trending way off and you need to look at a piece of your business, and then you can adjust. That's why we're all here.

Mike DeHaan: [24:35] I'm really glad that you said that, Dan. That's also the perfect representation of you as, like, a high c versus me with no c. Because I I I know why you think that I I agree with it, but I also know that my natural inclination would not be to do that. Yeah. Because I'm because being the the high d personality, I just go into, like, I just need to grind and do more. How much more? I don't know, but I know what exertion feels like. Right? And so I'll just go off of, like, that more emotional rather than, you know, you're you're more on the c end and you like the actual numerical ones, which is if you can conquer that, right, that's definitely gonna be more projected growth versus, like, my

Dan Austin: [25:14] A big part of it is and you're talking about this with acquisition.com. Right? What are they asking you for every single time you talk to

Mike DeHaan: [25:20] them? Data. Data.

Dan Austin: [25:21] Yeah. So you can't if you guys you guys are all here because you wanna run a business. Yeah. Like, you can't run your business flying blind. You have to have information and data. You can fuck around and do all that stuff for as long as you want, but, like, you're in the scale community to scale your business. So think about it that way and think about yourself as a professional entrepreneur and a business owner, and that will help. It will you know, you'll start seeing the trends. You'll start seeing things just like when you're training people. You'll start seeing trends that you wouldn't have seen when you were in that role. Right? You'll start picking up on those things.

Mike DeHaan: [25:49] Yeah. Yeah. I'm going I'm going out next week to Las Vegas to hang out with Alex Tremozi's team at acquisition.com again for their little, like, level two thing that they have where, like, I'm actually gonna be working for two shake days, like, on one with one of their they they gave me basically, like, a rep that's gonna be helping me dive into everything for our business. And it's funny going through, like, the little onboarding process over the last week and event. The level of detail that they want, on the numbers, I feel like we're relatively organized most of the time. Compared to what they want. We're not even close. And there's, like, so many, like, little things that they're really trying to dive into. So I'll hopefully come back with some good lessons and we can pass on for you guys. Cool. Anything else on that before we move on?

Speaker 5: [26:33] Yeah. I was I could throw a little bit in that too. I kinda side with both Mike, you, and Dan. Like, I've just been sending it all this first year Yeah. And not paying attention to that. Just going for the hustle, doing things I knew that worked because I was getting contracts, getting deals, and removing. I wasn't extremely worried about it, but I looked at my business as a whole, like after that year of anniversary, I was like, All right, what do I need to do to take this to the next level? And part of that was like initiating those KPIs, looking at what was actually going on, and what that did for me to help give me the confidence to move into that next level, and like know what was restricting me from moving up to the next level was those KPIs. It gave me confidence to be like, Oh, there it is. I just need more leads. Everything else is going smoothly. Now I just need more. So those really dialed it in and made me feel like, Okay, now I'm actually running a business. This thing worked. Let's get into it and take ownership of it and really ramp it up, get back into it, pile it up, KPIs we're so confident building. Yeah, that's awesome. But on the other hand, to Mike's point, I didn't know what those KPIs needed to look like. I didn't know what the relation was to the business. So it was hard because I was almost flying blind as far as even having a navigational tool. I didn't know what those needed to look like, know how to react to them.

Speaker 5: [27:56] But taking a look at them kind of geared me towards that being like, Oh, that's what that means. And once I understood that, now it's like, Get out of the way. We're coming.

Dan Austin: [28:05] That's why I feel that way. It's a measurement tool for how you feel sometimes too.

Mike DeHaan: [28:11] Yeah, totally. But ultimately, the end of the day, the one thing to keep in mind for the vast majority of everybody, this included, revenue solves pretty much all problems in business. Right? Like if you can increase your revenue, you can probably figure out everything else.