The Perks of Wholesaling In Small, Rural Markets w/ Emma & Kyle Greenwood

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] Really quick before the show starts, in case you haven't heard, we have a growing community of investors called the scale community, which is full of people learning to make massive income with their real estate businesses, so they can reach financial freedom a little bit faster than building a rental portfolio solely over time, because honestly, that takes decades and who has time for that. So if you're an investor who is serious about growing and creating a scalable business without needing to be a slave to it twenty four seven, then go to collectingkeys.com/scale and apply. And if you're a

Mike DeHaan: [0:31] good fit, we would love to

Mike DeHaan: [0:32] have you join the community. So again, collectingkeys.com/scale, go ahead and apply, and we'll see if you're a good fit.

Emma Greenwood: [0:38] I can't think of a single deal we've done that felt standard. Our first big wholesale, we wholesaled an RV park that we had to renegotiate, ended up wholesaling it on seller financing.

Mike DeHaan: [0:49] What is going on, guys? Welcome to today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast. Today is the scale show, and we are here with two scale members, Emma and Kyle Greenwood, that have been with us now for about seven months and are slinging a ton of deals up there in North Idaho. I'll say that's ton of deals for how short you've been in because usually, the learning phase you're going through is pretty barren, and you guys haven't taken out some pretty big stuff. So this is your first time to this show. I am Mike DeHaan here with my cohost Dylan Cook. And on these episodes, we interview people that are in that grind phase of the real estate business to figure out what exactly is working for them in this current market. So Emma and Kyle, welcome to the show, you guys. Super, super excited to have you on. And it's funny because we hopped on. You said that we were premature on doing this, but I don't know. I have to spend some time with you on a little hike this weekend. I mean, you guys got a lot of stuff going on, so don't discredit success that you've had. So really quick, give us a three minute rundown who exactly you are, where specifically you are based, and what your team and business currently looks like.

Emma Greenwood: [2:01] Thank you for having us. We are currently based in North Idaho. So we operate in four different counties up here. A lot of them are more rural. As of right now, the team is just myself and Kyle, who is also my husband. We're doing about a deal a month and mostly wholesaling them. But obviously, we're looking to cherry pick if there's any easy flip opportunities or something that we just can't pass up as a rental, but really kind of trying to focus on wholesaling it for the time being.

Mike DeHaan: [2:30] Cool. And before we dive into some of the other details there, what is the general population of the markets that you guys are working in right now? Because they're not incredibly big. And one of the biggest, I would say, concerns we get all the time is from people that are trying to do this in, like, smaller markets. And your guys are honestly about as small as they get.

Kyle Greenwood: [2:48] Yeah. I mean, every city that we mark town, we market to is under 10,000 people.

Dylan Koch: [2:54] That's extremely small.

Kyle Greenwood: [2:56] Which means a lot, and it's, like, rural mountainous, and so a lot of driving to appointments.

Mike DeHaan: [3:01] Correct. Not only are they super small, but you're far from everything. You know? And, like, the nearest town, Spokane, where I'm at is two hours away further from some of these places, but you guys are still able to get deals done. And so I just wanted to emphasize that because for a lot of people that think you're in these small rural areas outside or wherever, I have people that'll be like, I'm in a town of 200,000 people. Is that too small? No. They 5% of that is some of these towns, and they're getting them done over Really good stuff.

Dylan Koch: [3:27] I'm curious. Working together as husband and wife, what do you guys have your roles designated up as acquisitions, dispositions, or what what did you guys kinda figure out works best for you guys?

Kyle Greenwood: [3:38] Right now, I'm dispositions Emma's acquisitions. After KeyesCon, though, just based on, like, our disc profile and our personalities, we realized that we're both really good at sales. So now I'm getting more into the acquisition side of things, which we've kind of we've flopped that a couple times, like, don't know if dispositions for a little bit, and we just kind of, like, played around with it. But we just sent out new mail, we set up our our phone number to ring simultaneous. So

Dylan Koch: [4:04] Now you're just gonna fight for it when it rings?

Kyle Greenwood: [4:06] We're gonna start some sort of competition. Yeah. It'll, like, incentivize you to answer that call when it comes into.

Dylan Koch: [4:12] I just imagine you guys are at dinner and then you're like, I'm first, know, picking up the phone.

Kyle Greenwood: [4:16] Yeah. Exactly. No, I gotta go. Yeah.

Emma Greenwood: [4:18] It took us a while to figure out our roles. I feel like we're in a pretty good place now. At the beginning, it was like, we didn't know who was doing what. And now, like Kyle said, he's been doing a really great job with dispositions. I've been doing mostly acquisitions, but I do a lot more of the back end stuff. So it'll be nice to bring him on to help out with some acquisitions. So all the kind of like organizational stuff, can have a little more time for that.

Dylan Koch: [4:41] Well, I just wanna touch on this. You're in such a small market, and we would probably get to this eventually, but I'm gonna bring it forward. Finding your buyers in such a small market, you must have to sell the deals to them too. So it is kind of a selling on the dispo side too.

Kyle Greenwood: [4:54] Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot harder than other markets seemingly. No. We've never done other markets. But, like, a lot of people we're selling deals too. It's like, that might be their only deal they buy that year.

Dylan Koch: [5:04] Right. You don't have the big conglomerates buying in rural Idaho.

Kyle Greenwood: [5:07] Yeah. And, like, there are some big guys, but they they're out of Spokane, and they're just like, they have to really need or want a deal to look at our deals at that time because they're just a little bit further away than the deals we're finding at Spokane, especially since Mike and Dan started marketing again to Spokane.

Mike DeHaan: [5:23] Yeah. And that's, like, an understated piece of, like, the current real estate market. Right? Is people will say, like, there's no buyers out there, which isn't true. There are buyers. It's just that they have to be wanting to buy your specific deal because now buyers have options. Right? So when when people complain about how all the buyers have dried up, it's just that they are choosing to pass in your deals because they're not as good as the other deals that they are seeing from other people. Right? Or it's just not as convenient for them, for you guys to be more rural, appealing to kind of like the people in the city. They're gonna get more deals in the city as well. So why should they go and invest that money to do something that they're gonna be driving two hours away if they don't need to do that? Right? And this major deals need to be a little bit better. Because I can guarantee you if you get a flip that someone's gonna make a $150 on, they're gonna be willing to drive that versus, you know, if they're gonna make in $30,000, which probably we're gonna make it in the city anyway.

Emma Greenwood: [6:16] Or we're just finding those really rural buyers, which is fun too. Like, we wholesaled one in this small town called Bonners Ferry, and this investor in Bonners Ferry bought it, he was stoked.

Kyle Greenwood: [6:26] Yeah. He's like the Bonners Ferry guy.

Mike DeHaan: [6:29] And every town has that guy. Yeah. Right? And you just need to find who they are and then try to have a backup plan in case they don't wanna buy your deal or they decide that they're gonna be a little bit more competitive with you, which can happen as well. So in these rural areas, how are you sourcing all these deals right now?

Emma Greenwood: [6:43] Pretty much everything's coming from direct mail. Yeah. We've been sending out mail for a while now, and we've got a pretty decent pipeline of people and all mail, though.

Kyle Greenwood: [6:53] Yeah. Our big flip that we're working on right now was a referral, which was from our property manager that we had. We went to some real estate conference a while ago, and some lady was talking about always, like, ask every real estate agent and property manager for deals. So I just periodically will, like, text people just reminding them that we'll buy stuff, and I got finally got a hot lead from it, and we closed on that one.

Dylan Koch: [7:16] Eventually, it paid off.

Mike DeHaan: [7:17] And that's your huge deal. Right?

Kyle Greenwood: [7:18] We paid him $2 for the referral fee too.

Mike DeHaan: [7:21] That's very generous of you knowing the numbers on that deal.

Dylan Koch: [7:24] You didn't aggle with him in 1,500 to set.

Mike DeHaan: [7:27] Yeah. Right. They did you throw in, like, a free gift card to Subway or something for him too?

Dylan Koch: [7:32] The one one that you

Mike DeHaan: [7:33] found in, like, your junk drawer.

Kyle Greenwood: [7:34] He lives

Emma Greenwood: [7:34] in a town with no Subway.

Mike DeHaan: [7:35] So That's how you know it's a small town. Holy shit.

Dylan Koch: [7:39] So how much direct mail are you sending right now?

Emma Greenwood: [7:43] Up until this month, we've been sending about $2,000 worth. So like only about 2,000 pieces ish. But we just decided we really just wanted to double it. So our biggest marketing order just went out last week and we spent $4,700.

Dylan Koch: [7:58] Okay. So you'd say you spent $2,000 ish a month, seven months. You're in what, around 15. And how many deals have you done so far?

Kyle Greenwood: [8:05] We skipped a couple months because we were just

Dylan Koch: [8:07] Oh, shame on you.

Kyle Greenwood: [8:08] We we we messed up. Not that we were trying

Emma Greenwood: [8:11] to That's right what we spent looking at our numbers. I think just under 15,000.

Kyle Greenwood: [8:16] Before spending the 4,700 this month, including that referral fee, we're at just under 7,000.

Mike DeHaan: [8:22] In total spend, and you've already done seven deals?

Kyle Greenwood: [8:25] Five deals.

Mike DeHaan: [8:26] Five deals. Okay. So either way, your cost is, like, $1,200.

Dylan Koch: [8:29] Yeah. It's really good. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [8:31] Yeah. That's, like, absurd. Right? That's that's another benefit of if you can find these smaller markets too. You guys are having to work to get them done, but your cost per opportunity is so much lower than you're trying to do it in some of these more competitive markets.

Kyle Greenwood: [8:43] Yeah. Like, most of the leads we're getting, they're not they're not talking to other people.

Mike DeHaan: [8:47] Because there are no other people.

Kyle Greenwood: [8:49] Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's been a huge reason of why we're getting some of these deals. Interesting. We had to cancel three contracts too. We did have eight contracts.

Dylan Koch: [8:59] We talked on the show line how this business is most like more sales and marketing than people realize. And the reason for that is because you're usually competing with other investors. So you have to kind of win that confidence. But if you I mean, you guys don't have that. That makes sense to me why you you do have either a, larger profits or b, less acquisition costs.

Emma Greenwood: [9:19] Yeah. And actually, this month, there's one county that is a little bit more populated, which is Kootenai County where Coeur D'Alene is. Previously, we weren't really marketing to because we didn't really want to deal with that competition. But now I feel like we've we're much better salespeople. And so I kind of was like, you know what? Screw it. Let's market to them. I was like, we can compete with the other wholesalers. So now we're starting to market to Kootenai County, which has a little bit bigger of a population. I think they're probably more like 300,000 in that county.

Kyle Greenwood: [9:47] I

Mike DeHaan: [9:48] don't think they're that big.

Emma Greenwood: [9:48] Okay. Well, Mike knows. Yeah. Maybe 200. I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [9:52] Yeah. I'm gonna look it up really quick.

Dylan Koch: [9:53] Than 10,000. Population.

Emma Greenwood: [9:55] More than 10,000.

Kyle Greenwood: [9:55] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:56] Yeah. I guess the entire county, it says about 183,000.

Emma Greenwood: [9:59] Okay. There you go.

Mike DeHaan: [10:00] So yes, that's bigger than I was expecting it to be. But the town of Quarter Lanes, believe it's only about 55,000 people.

Emma Greenwood: [10:05] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Right.

Mike DeHaan: [10:06] So it's still a ton of rural areas. But nice. So you're starting to expand out into those spots. And is that your most recent marketing batch that you did that with?

Kyle Greenwood: [10:14] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [10:14] Yeah. Yeah. Be interested to hear how that pans out.

Kyle Greenwood: [10:16] I wish maybe should add

Mike DeHaan: [10:17] it to pretty much, I don't

Kyle Greenwood: [10:19] know, 80% of the leads are driving per dollar leads too.

Mike DeHaan: [10:23] Oh, that's where you're getting your main list?

Kyle Greenwood: [10:25] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [10:26] Okay. So you're you're going and driving out in, like, these super rural towns?

Kyle Greenwood: [10:30] But I do it on my bike, and I literally will print out a map and, like, reuse a marker, and I'll hit every single street. And because it just it takes, like, a day or two to do the whole town.

Mike DeHaan: [10:40] Yeah. It's funny because Emma just kinda smirked there. Like, that's legit, though. Right? Like, that that's the hustle.

Dylan Koch: [10:45] Yep. Well, also,

Emma Greenwood: [10:46] I feel like a lot of people would be like, why is he doing that? But also, he just likes to do

Kyle Greenwood: [10:49] it. No.

Mike DeHaan: [10:51] I mean, that's the thing that most people are not gonna do, which gives you a competitive advantage. Right? Like, so many people are always trying to figure out how to be competitive by doing, like, AI or this other bullshit stuff. You're like, no. I'm just gonna go ride my bike and, like, see the, you know, properties that suck and add those to our list. Like, that's that's as straightforward as it gets. Right? That's awesome.

Dylan Koch: [11:12] And if they're not showing up another list, that's even better.

Mike DeHaan: [11:14] Correct. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess with these deals you've been closing, like, since you're in these rural areas, what's your typical deal size?

Emma Greenwood: [11:22] I would guess. I mean, they're kind of all over the board. We've had fees from $10,000 to 50,000. So probably around 20, I would say, would be Yeah. Our average.

Mike DeHaan: [11:32] Yeah. And well then just to tease, we're gonna dive into details on this and at the end. What's your current projected profit on this big deal you're working on?

Emma Greenwood: [11:40] I would say comfortably around a 150,000.

Dylan Koch: [11:44] That's awesome.

Mike DeHaan: [11:45] Well, that that's your share, though, too. Right?

Emma Greenwood: [11:47] That's us. That's our share. Yeah. And then they also should probably make that much.

Kyle Greenwood: [11:51] Yeah. Total if everything goes perfectly, though, there could be, like, $400,000.

Emma Greenwood: [11:57] If it goes horribly wrong, I still think each partnership will make, like, a $100.

Mike DeHaan: [12:02] Yeah. So this is in these rural areas. You're pulling down these massive deals that people think only exist in high cost of living areas.

Kyle Greenwood: [12:09] Yeah. This was a kind of a weird deal too, though. There's five houses on one, like, parcel, and we're having to work with the city and a surveyor to get it all split up. And it's a little different, and it's taking a little long. It's not just like a quick paint and carpet and flooring and stuff. So

Dylan Koch: [12:23] That is more of an advanced strategy, though, that you guys took on and just, what, doing this for not even a year. I mean, not most people won't even recognize the opportunity to do something with that deal. So that's my point.

Kyle Greenwood: [12:35] Yeah. I think our first, like, box we need to check is, like, we have a private money lender that will give us a loan at a 10%, and we can usually use equity from our other houses to buy it for the 100% financing. And we're like, if we can cash flow with this private money loan, then there's there's, like, so many different ways we can, like, cut it up as a deal. So, like, once we realize we're like, dang, this ain't cash flow is pretty good with a private money loan. Let's just do it. And no other I was just telling Mike about this this last weekend. No one would even look at this deal. They didn't like, they won't even open the email.

Mike DeHaan: [13:08] Yeah. They're lost. It's out in the middle of nowhere. There's money everywhere, though. There there exactly. There's money everywhere.

Mike DeHaan: [13:15] I hope you guys are enjoying this episode. We are seriously trying to grow this podcast so that the voice of what it really takes to grow a real estate business becomes kind of the norm versus the guru get rich quick b s that everyone is fed on a daily basis. With so many podcasts out there, it is hard for us to get discovered on our own. So a quick ask, please share this episode on your social media accounts. Be that a real story, whatever. And if you tag me at Mike underscore Invest, then I will give you a follow. And I will also send you a DM so that we can have a little chat about your business and anyways, I could potentially help you grow. So again, please share it on your socials. Tag me at Mike underscore invests, that's with an s at the end, and I'll follow you. And we can have a little DM a convo about your business. And maybe I can help you grow a little bit, or you could just say what's up to. That'd be awesome. But appreciate everyone, and thanks so much for helping us grow.

Mike DeHaan: [14:07] So how many of these deals, though, have you done in these rural spots where you've had to get a little bit more creative like this? Because you've had a couple that you've taken down. I mean and I think this is where people tend to get thrown off with some of these smaller markets is they want it to be like, you get a house in the up and coming b class neighborhood for 60¢ and a dollar, you sell it for 70¢ and a dollar, and you make your fee. But you've had I think I think I can think of at least two of the ones that you've closed where you've been getting pretty creative with how you've been piecing together. Is that pretty common? Or you or do you have deals as well that you're doing that are just like more standard?

Emma Greenwood: [14:40] I can't think of a single deal we've done that felt standard. Our first big wholesale, we wholesaled an RV park that we had to renegotiate ended up wholesaling it on seller financing. One of the ones we wholesaled, had it under contract for like 140 ended up having to drop the price almost like $70,000 Because we found out there was like, no foundation to the house is basically a teardown. And they still agreed to it. Like, every deal has just been what feels like a complete roller coaster.

Mike DeHaan: [15:10] Yeah, you're still though your total gross revenue on the year at this point is probably, what, 200 k?

Emma Greenwood: [15:17] Well, as of right now, it's 96,000. That's not including any projected income.

Kyle Greenwood: [15:22] That's just for wholesale fees. And then Emma's also an agent. She's done, like, 55,000 in commission. And then with our two rental properties, including a big cash out refinance, we brought in 42,000. So total gross is a little over 176.

Mike DeHaan: [15:39] 176 gross off of your $15,000 spend so far.

Dylan Koch: [15:43] Are you guys both doing this full time?

Kyle Greenwood: [15:45] Well, full time, no. Because we don't really work full time, but it's the only thing we're

Dylan Koch: [15:51] doing. Sure. Okay. Got it. Yeah. But I guess the poor metrics that would fall there is 96,000 in wholesale revenue, current 7 k in ad spend. Right?

Emma Greenwood: [16:01] Yep. Basically. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [16:03] 12 x ish. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Yeah. About.

Mike DeHaan: [16:07] Plus the retail stuff, which has come off of your guys' marketing, I believe, plus the projected. So even if you guys did nothing else, you're gonna 30 x your total investment that you've spent on your marketing so far.

Dylan Koch: [16:18] Yeah. I had a question. This is kinda a selfie question, but Emma's a a licensed agent, and I I guess it depends on how the market is there in your rural areas as far as like, why wholesale over fix and flipping?

Emma Greenwood: [16:31] Honestly, we don't know a lot about rehab. This first flip that we did take on, the only reason we felt comfortable was because we brought on a partner who's doing a 100% of the rehab, and they have a lot of experience with that. So we've talked about it, and it's probably something that we will get more into, I would imagine. But as of right now, I think we are just trying to keep the risk pretty low. And

Dylan Koch: [16:55] I don't think what you're doing is wrong. I just wanted to know what details you what experience you used to make that decision. Because if you're a licensed agent, you can list your own flips, you know, do the 3% save on that.

Kyle Greenwood: [17:05] And I think a lot of it is just we just have followed, like, the scale, like Mike and Dan's advice of just it's less risky. Like, lot can go wrong with a flip. Not a lot can go wrong with a successful wholesale.

Dylan Koch: [17:16] Totally.

Kyle Greenwood: [17:17] Like, if if you get across finish line, it's done. You've got your money. Might be less, but now you don't have to worry about it, and you can spend your time doing other things. But a big thing too is we just don't have, like, a ton of capital. Like, after this flip closes and we're selling a rental property that will probably walk away with at least a 100,000, give or take, then we'll have some, like, walking around money to to take down more flips. And I think with the rural areas, like, it would be nice to be able to take some of these out because DISCO was a pain in the ass.

Dylan Koch: [17:46] Mhmm. Sure. Makes sense.

Mike DeHaan: [17:48] As long as they're selective. I mean, I think the the risk you'll have in these more rural areas is if you do have a flip, the chance of them sitting on market for longer is gonna be much higher, which can start to get very expensive very quickly. But so what is your, like, your general process look like then with you guys working together on this? I mean, obviously, you have slightly different roles and acquisitions and dispositions. What about, like I mean, how do you guys handle your leads? Is it whoever talks to them first basically owns the leads? Do you guys trade off? You know, who is actually doing, like, all the middle parts of the business, the data, and all those sort of things? How's all that organized between you guys?

Emma Greenwood: [18:26] Yeah. Basically, whoever has talked to the lead first pretty much just is the one who continues talking with them the whole time. So the majority of the leads, I would say, are mine because I'm the one who's primarily been answering the initial phone calls. And then, yeah, Kyle has really done a good job of, like, building up great buyers list. Like he's like master networker. So he's always like meeting new people. I mean, he's the one who met like you, Mike, and kind of got us go in here in the community, which has helped a lot in terms of a lot of the back end stuff like Kyle deals with our finances, but then I do all of kind of like the data management and marketing, things like that. Day to day is pretty casual here at the Greenwood household.

Dylan Koch: [19:12] So like if a lead comes in for like the seat like an Ari simply or the and Emma talked to him first for the lead follow-up is is Emma like, do you have one account where it's like, these are Emma's tasks and these are Kyle's tasks or you just kind of tackle them together?

Emma Greenwood: [19:25] Yeah. It's like these are Emma's and these are Kyle's. And I we each have like our own, you know, RA simply profiles. And it's like, I have leads that are assigned to me. I'm the only one who's really working through those. I'm assigning myself tasks for however long, you know.

Kyle Greenwood: [19:38] Yeah. So we've just changed it to our next batch of marketing. So now our phone will ring at the same time. But prior, Emma was answering all the calls, so they were all her leads. But she had a little she was, like, getting a little more of a workload, so I took, like, a few of them or, like, just the ones that, like I was just kind of, like, her lead manager. If she couldn't get ahold of these people, but, like, there was something there, like, I would just start calling them. And then 95% of the time, if we're going on an appointment, we always do it together. And then we just kinda, like, play off of whoever the seller is. Like, if they're driving with me or Emma, then we just kinda flip flop, and the other person will just take photos usually and just kind of be in the background. And Emma's, like, really just more approachable. And I think I'm better with, like, the, like, the b to b kind of stuff. So that's why I I do the dispositions. And then it's like, when we're on appointments, Emma's just, like, great at getting people talking. And then I I can be good at just cutting to the chase and, like, be like, alright. Let's figure out an offer here. What what do you what do you guys need from us? Like, is this a deal and kinda steering the conversation a little bit?

Mike DeHaan: [20:41] Yeah. That's great. That's perfect too. Like, different seller personalities are gonna go with different people. Right? And, you know, I think that if you're able to do walk throughs with two people, it's always a little bit more effective because one person can really focus on the rapport. The other person can focus on the property. So it is an interesting challenge, I think, for people that are starting out is, like, how do you make sure that you're actually getting good photos, especially if you have, like, a super chatty seller or things like that. Right? Yeah. So when you guys are doing all this stuff together, I mean, how do you balance business with your guys', you know, like, marriage and relationship? Or is it kind of just like all of them know that together and you're cool with that? That's always a question that I hear in, like, abundance is like, I wanna work with my wife, but I don't wanna talk about business all the time. I mean, we've had people on the show like Billie and Tara Fernandez who just don't care and they always do that or, like, you know, that her mozies are very much like that is what we do in our marriage as we talk about business. Do you guys have issues separating things, or do you guys just sort of, like, roll with it?

Emma Greenwood: [21:41] I would say we maybe at the beginning, we're thinking, oh, we need more, like, strict rules around when we can talk about it when we can't, but we don't have rules really. And I think what is helpful for us is we have a lot of other hobbies that we enjoy together. We really like riding bikes and hiking and doing a lot of stuff outside and traveling. And so we do talk about business a decent amount, but we also talk about a lot of other stuff. And I think if one of us is not in the mood to talk about business, and it is like a bad time, the other person will just be like, hey, just ask me tomorrow, you know, ask me in business hours.

Kyle Greenwood: [22:17] Just we'll just try out not right now. I don't know. And that's like, we just have to be honest about that. Like, one person might like, I've just came home from a thirty minute drive, and I'll listen to a podcast, I have all these ideas. The other person's like, not right now. I I can't even think about that right now. And so

Emma Greenwood: [22:33] but we heard, you know, some people are like strict, like no talking about business when you're like on a date or whatever. And like, I think that's silly too. Because what if you're both excited, and you both want to talk about it? Like, we've definitely done that before. We're like out to dinner, like drinking some wine, and we're just like, stoked and we wanna like chat about these new ideas, we'll just do it.

Kyle Greenwood: [22:52] And then we usually put that on the business card.

Dylan Koch: [22:54] There you go.

Kyle Greenwood: [22:57] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [22:58] You kinda hit it at it earlier, but you guys are managing your marriage and the business, but you're also, there's nothing you're doing, but it's not full time. So how many hours are you working, would you say, in the business per week?

Emma Greenwood: [23:07] My guess is anywhere between twenty to thirty hours a week would be my guess for how much I'm working.

Kyle Greenwood: [23:14] Some days we'll put in, like, ten, twelve hours if it needs to happen. But, like, it's just you just know that it needs to get done and it doesn't really feel like work. It's like the days where, like, there's not really much to do, that that's, like, tough to actually, like, sit down and, like, get some back end work done that isn't time sensitive.

Dylan Koch: [23:31] Well, see you guys on I think I followed both of you or at least one of you on social media. I don't know. It was one random day of the week, and one of you guys were both golfing in the golf course. Was sitting here in my computer doing like back end, like, data stuff. I'm like, what the hell am I doing? I should be golfing too. So it's just cool that you have that balance too. I love that.

Kyle Greenwood: [23:49] Yeah. It's it's like really you know, that's why we wanted to get into real estate was for like the freedom, and that's why we wanted to do our own thing. And we try to make that, like, important, but we also nerd out about real estate and stuff. So when we have to get work done, it doesn't doesn't really feel like work a lot of the times.

Mike DeHaan: [24:06] Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's huge. Right? And the fact that you guys are both kinda like that's also probably why it's easy to meld with your marriage. I feel like a lot of people that need to have, like, those strict separations, it's simply because they don't actually like it or or, you know, they don't they don't really have that much in common with their spouse, and they're trying to, like, force something that they're gonna have in common. That seems to be a very, like, regular thing that I find with people is, like, they've had kids for so long, and now they don't really have anything in common anymore. So, oh, we're gonna do a business together, but we don't have hobbies or anything outside, like the kids and heart business that we enjoy doing together that we have similar. And that's where it kinda becomes tricky if people separate. But, I mean, if it's when you have a business you enjoy, like, feels like a hobby very, very quickly. Something that I've always noticed has been people will make comments about how I work all the time. Like, what the fuck else am I gonna do? Like, I don't know. Like, I could sit and play video games or go for a bike ride or go for a hike or go play golf or do whatever. But the thing is when I do those, I end up just thinking about business and stuff the entire time anyway.

Mike DeHaan: [25:08] So why not? I find it to be sort of meditative. Mainly when hiking this past Saturday, I spent most of that hike, like, just, like, thinking about different ideas and stuff that I had because it's a perfect time to sort of, I don't know, have clarity away from phone calls and everything else.

Kyle Greenwood: [25:22] Yeah. Totally. I would add too on our working together. We have separate offices in our house, which I think is huge, especially for, like, this business when you're on the phone a lot. We just would be, like, distract her. Like, one person will have an idea. Usually, that person was me. And I just, kinda derail us from actually getting work done, just, like, talking about work. That's huge. Just because you can we can go in our separate offices, get some stuff done, and then it's like, alright. I'm done. I'm not going to the office anymore. I'm going golfing or whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [25:53] And so you guys have, like, the chill lifestyle right now. You're making some money. What are your guys' goals over the next, like, twelve months?

Emma Greenwood: [26:01] I mean, we definitely wanna grow. As of right now, we're doing about one deal a month. I don't really see us becoming the people who are running a large team or doing five to 10 deals a month. Like, I think that our goals are probably to do, like, a couple wholesale deals a month, a couple flips a year, and then kinda cherry pick when we find those really good buy and hold opportunities kinda to do that. Would you agree?

Kyle Greenwood: [26:26] Yeah. I would agree. We're partnering on this flip, and I just like the idea of partnering where we can, like, use our skill set and not have to, like, manage a whole flip. I've always, like, keeping our options open for certain partnerships. Like, every buyer I talk to, I I kind of always, like, soft pitch, like, yeah, if you wanna pay for the marketing for vacant land, like, we can do that. You know? Like, let us let us do our thing. You can do your thing. And I think that's been huge for us to be able to have the flexibility to have a good work life balance, guess.

Dylan Koch: [26:57] On the partnership with the flip, how is that structured?

Emma Greenwood: [27:01] Basically, we found the deal and we just approached them. These are some friends of ours who have done a lot of flips and they do pretty much all the work themselves. So they're like pretty dialed with keeping rehab really low and things like that. We just approached her and we were like, Hey, would you want to partner on this with us go fiftyfifty? After she saw the numbers, she was like pretty much all in. So pretty much we found the deal. We were in charge of working with the city and getting all of the survey stuff kind of situated because like we said, it was five houses on one parcel. It's been kind of a decent amount of work getting those separated. And then they were in charge of all the rehab. And then we're just splitting the profits fifty fifty.

Kyle Greenwood: [27:43] Yeah. There's another couple that we partnered with. They do all their own work. They just killed it and, like, knocked out of the park. I'll go up there every once in while just do, like, dump run or, like, weed whack just to feel like I'm helping. And, yeah, like, we were supposed to do the survey kinda end of things, but she just kinda built, like, really good rapport with the surveyor that we had. And she asked she's like, I'm not, like, steamrolling you, am I? Was like, no. If you like, seems like you've kind of got it better than I had it. So go ahead

Dylan Koch: [28:12] and Kinda like when you guys talk to sellers, she had a better rapport with the surveyor.

Kyle Greenwood: [28:15] Exactly. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [28:17] In the show, we often talk about, like, it doesn't make sense to give up 50% of your profits for a flip. But I think this was not just a financial decision, but it was a lifestyle decision for you guys. Because even if you're managing a GC, you still have to manage a GC. Right? And so this is it sounds like very hands off for you guys. You know, once you've done your part, the rehabs are hands off, and then you just collect the check at the end.

Emma Greenwood: [28:38] Our very first rental we bought was the house was a total piece of crap. And we did a lot of it ourselves and managed all of it ourselves and quickly learned that we did not enjoy doing that. And that was where we were honestly like arguing the most in our business. And when we were deciding what we wanted to do with this project, we were like, well, do we want to spend our whole summer down, like, crappily putting this house together, and I'm sure we would have done a lot of it because we didn't, you know, not knowing what we were doing, or do we wanna give up some of that profit and truly just have a lot more time.

Kyle Greenwood: [29:12] Yeah. And it was it was a big project for, like, a first time flip. Five houses and, like, dealing with surveyors. And it was, like, a little little big. So we're so happy for our partners, Joe and Joe.

Mike DeHaan: [29:24] Yeah. Yeah. I think I think on that one, it totally makes sense to explain that right. Where I tend to get a little bit concerned is when you get newer people that are like, oh, yeah. I have this, like, old mentor in town who is gonna, like, fund this deal for me. We're gonna split the profits fifty fifty. I'm like, how about you don't do that? Because they're about to get an insane return on their money, and you're gonna do all the work, and they're not gonna give you nearly as much guidance as you're hoping. But, I mean, if it's a division of labor like that, especially if it's that much of a lift, like, totally. That makes perfect sense. Right? It's a true JV at that point. You guys have lots of going on, though, and you guys have a, you know, great momentum going forward. I'm really excited to see how the next little bit pans out for you, especially because I feel like, you know, the market that we are in, you know, between Spokane up where you're at is still on, like, a very, very strong trajectory, all things considered. So there's tons of potential that you guys have. Awesome. Alright. So we're gonna dive into our end of show questions here to wrap up. What is your craziest real estate story that you have?

Kyle Greenwood: [30:22] We have two rental properties, and this is the second one that we bought. This was prior to us kinda going all in on wholesaling. And Emma and her previous partner, we're just sending, like, a few mailers out a month, and they've wholesaled a few. We bought one of the rentals, through that. And so it's, like, in the middle of the winter, it's, like, snowing, so we didn't wanna, like, drive out there. Emma took the call. She just assumed it was, like, in really bad shape because they were calling us. And so she was like, oh, I know. I bought my last property for 90,000. The lady was like, well, I'll do a 100,000. And so she got the phone, we talked, and I was like, so I don't wanna send her a contract. It's pretty hard to mess up for a $100,000 house in the area. So we sent her a contract, got it signed, sight unseen. And then we sent an inspector out there, it was like a blizzard. So we, like, didn't drive out again. And then the inspector went out there, and then we found out that it had a a double lot and, like, a five year old, like, 600 square foot shop on it that we didn't even know about originally. So we ended up buying that house when we had, like I think we had, like, $5,000 in our bank account. Like, personal bank accounts? All bank accounts. And we used that private money lender who put a second lien on our first rental property to fund a 100% of it, and then it was, like, 3 or $4,000 in closing costs.

Kyle Greenwood: [31:45] And it was just, like, such a good deal that we were like, let's let's just get like, we have to buy this thing. If we bought got it now, we probably would have wholesaled it with our financial situation, but we were just like, we got to buy every house. We every good deal we have to buy. So we ended up buying it, and then we just, like, had no money, like, no cash for groceries or anything. We bought this house. But we just did a cash out refinance on it and pulled out $40,000, and it got appraised at $3.50. We bought it for a 100.

Emma Greenwood: [32:13] So And put $0 into it.

Mike DeHaan: [32:15] Yeah. So and you only pulled out $40 on the refi? You could have, like, 200.

Emma Greenwood: [32:20] Yeah.

Kyle Greenwood: [32:21] Yeah. Because the the the rents weren't high enough. So we just we wanted to, like, break even. Honestly, we probably should just sell it, but it has these tenants in it that have been there for ten years, and they're both, like, 80 year old sisters. And we're just because we got such a good deal on it, we're like, like, it's in their house, you know, we don't wanna, like, just kick these ladies out.

Emma Greenwood: [32:41] The whole reason that the lady sold it to us at such a deep discount was she was like, oh, these sisters are in there. Do you guys buy houses with tenants? And we're like, yeah. And we agreed to sign a year lease with them, which the early says since passed, but

Kyle Greenwood: [32:54] They're just so nice. And we just can't can't kick them out. They pay

Mike DeHaan: [33:00] round time

Kyle Greenwood: [33:00] every month. So we basically break even every month. We pulled $40,000 out. And we still have like,

Dylan Koch: [33:06] A shit ton of equity.

Kyle Greenwood: [33:07] Bunch of equity. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [33:08] So

Kyle Greenwood: [33:09] we'll and we we needed the cash out. So we're like, alright. It's fine. Let's just, like, take this cash. It'll be great for our business. We reinvested it. That's, how we're able to do a lot of stuff. Like, think, Mike, when I first called you, I was like, I'm about to do this cash out refinance so I have some money to, like, pay for some, like, coaching. And if we had all the money in the world, the move would have been to wait and sell it and just get all the cash, but we didn't really have that luxury.

Dylan Koch: [33:33] Wholesaling it though, like, knowing you guys might have been tougher because who knows what the end buyer is gonna do with those people. Right?

Emma Greenwood: [33:40] Mhmm. Totally.

Kyle Greenwood: [33:42] They're paying a thousand dollars a month, and we could probably get, like, $1,800 a month. But then we don't have to do anything. They just they take care of the entire house. It's like they treat it like it's their own.

Mike DeHaan: [33:52] Yeah. I mean and if you don't need the money, right, like, mean, obviously, business is going very well. So why not? Like, if you were in a position where you were hitting me up on Slack and scale every other day and you're like, I can't get any deals. I'm trying to figure out how do I'm spending $1,500 a month on marketing. I'd be like, yeah. You should fucking deal with that then. I should sell that. You have all this money that you can invest. But since you're not in that position, who cares? Just leave it there. Get a little tax benefit, you know, at the end of the year. Makes sense to me.

Emma Greenwood: [34:21] I'm sure the ladies will have to move into a nursing home at some point.

Kyle Greenwood: [34:24] Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [34:25] At some point. At some point.

Kyle Greenwood: [34:27] We told them, like in the lease, the original lease, we're like, you can move out at any time.

Emma Greenwood: [34:32] Feel Kimberly, feel free to break the lease.

Kyle Greenwood: [34:34] This lease protects you. It does not protect us.

Dylan Koch: [34:36] That's hilarious.

Kyle Greenwood: [34:37] If you can it was in the lease that they were, like, could break the lease at any time they wanted.

Dylan Koch: [34:41] That's funny.

Kyle Greenwood: [34:42] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [34:43] One other question for you guys, if you could go back to the very beginning of starting your real estate investing journey, like the off market stuff, what's one thing you would do differently?

Emma Greenwood: [34:52] I'm gonna say finding either mentors or like surrounding yourself with a group of people who are also running a similar business that has just been really, really helpful for us. Before it was just me and Kyle, like, throwing ideas at each other, we didn't really know what we were doing. We were like using YouTube and just kind of mostly self taught. But if you can surround yourself with people who are running the same business more successfully than you are, it just like keeps you motivated. And it's been really, really awesome for us. So I think looking for mentorship or something like that sooner, we would have probably just catapulted our business a little sooner.

Kyle Greenwood: [35:30] Who knows, though? We could have just joined the sub two community and we'd just be screwing our tires. So

Mike DeHaan: [35:35] That's funny because I one of the first conversations that we ever had and you guys being like, yeah, we liked you because you talk shit on Pace Morby all the time.

Emma Greenwood: [35:44] We were always very skeptical of mentorship, so be picky. Yeah. But

Dylan Koch: [35:48] Well, people can smell that Pace Morby BS from a long way away, usually. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [35:53] Smart people can. And Yeah. If they can't smell that, then they deserve taking advantage of anyway because they're fucking dumb. So it's my that's my strong opinion for the day. But anyways, alright. Where can people find you guys, follow you, reach out to you?

Emma Greenwood: [36:07] On social media. I'm on Instagram at the emma greenwood or Facebook. I use a lot for my business, emma greenwood.

Kyle Greenwood: [36:14] Yeah. Facebook or Instagram, Kyle Greenwood, or my Instagram is loose underscore tribe. Can you follow? It's mostly just like mountain biking and golfing.

Mike DeHaan: [36:26] There you go.

Kyle Greenwood: [36:27] A few real estate plugs.

Mike DeHaan: [36:29] That's the the ultimate lifestyle and real estate brand. Yeah. So yeah. And I will say, guys, definitely reach out to him and Kyle because you guys are very gracious with your time. You're super, super involved in scale. And I can't tell you how many members I've talked to as well that have been I don't know. I would say, like, struggling to kind of figure stuff out, and they'll say things like, oh, yeah. Well, I was just talking to Kyle the other day, and he was kind of giving me some good direction on x y z. So I always really appreciate that too.

Kyle Greenwood: [36:56] Sweet. Yeah. Soon you'll be launching launching scale point two. There you go. There you go.

Dylan Koch: [37:02] Right. Point two. So amazing.

Kyle Greenwood: [37:05] Point two. Point two. A really small 20% of what you get from the scale.

Mike DeHaan: [37:10] Yeah. Right.

Kyle Greenwood: [37:11] Yeah. A $100.

Mike DeHaan: [37:12] Yeah. You can you can launch your own mastermind and call it the loose tribe or whatever. You know, super questionable, whatever that's gonna be.

Kyle Greenwood: [37:19] Just I'll just accept your friend request. That's all you get.

Mike DeHaan: [37:23] There you go. Right? Yeah. I'll I'll send I'll send you a, know, like an occasional meeting invite that I just won't show up for. That's that's what a lot of those mentorships do is they'll, like, have it booked on the calendar a month in advance, and they'll cancel it fifteen minutes before. Like, sorry.

Dylan Koch: [37:36] Yeah. Need a I need a copy of your purchase sale agreement, and all they do is go into Google and download off the Internet and send it to you. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [37:43] Yeah. Like, seriously though, that is goddamn it. Why is why is this Like,

Kyle Greenwood: [37:46] I shouldn't do what you do, man. You spend so much time helping people. It's it's crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [37:51] That's fun. I like it. Like, I don't know. It it's people always ask about that. It's, like, my passion project, honestly, because, like, you guys know you've been in this for little while. This business isn't that complicated. Like, it's not easy, but it's fundamentally very simple. And for me to, like, see people sort of go through that growth phase of, oh, this is actually how I can make my old annual salary on a monthly basis and, like, have that awakening is super fun. I mean, I don't know. I don't think that that people should be like, I don't have such limiting beliefs around that because it's it's not crazy, but people always wanna try and find a get rich quick scheme. It's not necessary. But awesome. I appreciate you guys so much, both as community members as well as for coming on the show, I've and really appreciated the friendship we've developed over the last little bit too. So, guys, go and hit up Kyle and Emma. They're doing some great things up there in North Idaho. And, if you guys want to inspire some of your friends around how you can actually run a small real estate business where you make multi 6 figures a year while working twenty or thirty hours a week and going biking and golfing on a random Tuesday, then share this one with them because Kyle and Emma are doing that very literally while they are crushing some massive deals up there in Northern Idaho. So thanks for listening, everybody, and we'll talk you guys next week.