How to Separate Truly Motivated Leads from Those Just Wasting Your Time

Mike DeHaan: [0:02] On Air Brands. Keep the momentum up. Keep marketing. Keep pushing. Keep making offers. And then I think just the big change you gotta make is be super cautious not to be making offers or making purchases based off speculation, that things will keep going up. I mean, if you're looking at things from a thirty year timeline, then you likely will. But, honestly, if you're a wholesaler or you're a recreational investor, you're probably not looking at things on that. Or, like, are you trying to, you know, do flips or those are things you need to look on a shorter timeline, which is, you know, six months to two years. And that period of time for real estate right now is a big question. You know? And what the outcome's gonna be, I don't know. But, it's important just to, you know, keep progressing, keep marching through.

Speaker 2: [0:49] Welcome to the Collecting Keys Real Estate Investing podcast with your host, Mike DeHaan and Dan Austin. From wins, losses, horror stories, and tactics for optimizing your business, Mike and Dan take a real uncensored deep dive into the ins and outs of running a full time real estate investment and wholesaling business.

Mike DeHaan: [1:13] What's going on, guys? Welcome to episode 37 of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast.

Dan Austin: [1:20] Nice.

Mike DeHaan: [1:20] And it is 06/10/2022 as we are recording this, and I think it's safe to say the market has officially started to turn. It has it's been an interesting couple of weeks, not only in you know, just like we've seen it a little bit with, like, listings and stuff that we've had up. Definitely been like a slower response rate. But I think now this week as well, the marketing has started to slow down, especially in, like, our more expensive markets that we're in. And this is something that's been reported across the board And some of the different national groups that we're in, people are reporting marketing response numbers kinda similar to when COVID first started, which was low. I don't I don't know if you remember this way back when, Dan. I remember, you know, COVID, like, of, like, officially started, like, middle of March. I remember we sent out a batch of mail at, like like, the week after it kind of, like, started to shut down. And I don't even know if you, like, necessarily know this. We sent out it was, like, 5,200 piece of mail. And do you remember how

Dan Austin: [2:18] many calls we got? I don't remember. I I it wasn't enough because we didn't close a deal. I know that much.

Mike DeHaan: [2:22] It was zero. That's why. It was that one of

Dan Austin: [2:26] the many the many $5,000 chunks that we spent, but we never got a single dime back.

Mike DeHaan: [2:32] Yeah. That we yeah. We I mean, we we did after a while. It built momentum. Yeah. So, I mean, we actually did end up closing a deal off of that batch, but it didn't come until May. Right. So it came

Dan Austin: [2:44] it was gonna be immediate.

Mike DeHaan: [2:45] Yeah. Yeah. Exact well, I mean, we're expecting at least to get a call because at that point, we've been mailing for a few months. I guess, like, wait People were afraid

Dan Austin: [2:52] to even check their mail, man.

Mike DeHaan: [2:53] I I know. Back then, was too. Right? You're, you're out there masking up to go and, like, know.

Dan Austin: [2:58] That refused to to accept Amazon packages unless they sat outside for two weeks. Yeah. During that during that, like, whole thing, was like, you're an idiot. So crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [3:07] I know. I I remember watching this video, where it was this guy. He was, like, in nursing, talking about, like, how you're supposed to disinfect all of your groceries. There And was, like, this whole thing where you're supposed to, like, wipe them down and keep them separated. And I remember one time, it was, like, very early in in COVID. We came back and we did this whole process. And afterwards, you're like, yeah. Fuck it. I mean, this can't be that bad.

Dan Austin: [3:27] I don't even clean my vegetables when they come in from the supermarket half the time, let alone COVID search.

Mike DeHaan: [3:33] I hope that I hope that's not true. That's just a podcast thing, man. Have I can I'll be able to have touched that pepper.

Dan Austin: [3:39] I know. Including me and my daughter with picking her nose, putting her hands on all the apples.

Mike DeHaan: [3:44] I mean, spray it down with all that wax. You actually not wash your vegetables? No. I do. Okay. I hope so. I mean, that's that'd Just not my apples. It's not your apples. Yeah. But

Dan Austin: [3:54] Is that a by the way, that a do you have a is that a bonsai tree?

Mike DeHaan: [3:57] It is. Yeah. It's a Chinese elm. It's a what's actually crazy, that's a 15 year old tree. I forgot how little it is. Where's your bonsai? We there was a lawn and garden show here in in Spokane at the community about $35,500. For that? Yeah. Oh, that's about 6 k, I think? No. I'm kidding. That'd be fucking ridiculous.

Dan Austin: [4:20] Dude, they go that expensive. That's why I'm asking. I've I've investigated looking at bonsai treats for a while. There's there's not too many, like, things in my life that have as much influence as, like, mister Miyagi and, from Karate Kid and Maverick from Top Gun.

Mike DeHaan: [4:33] Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Dan Austin: [4:34] I mean, those that's, like, basically who I am today. That's funny.

Mike DeHaan: [4:37] Yeah. I think that one so so you you can get, like, just the tree. Like, if you didn't have, like, the the pot and, like, it's, like, not developed at all for, like, $50, I think. I got that one for $1.50 at the farmers market.

Dan Austin: [4:48] So That's cheap. You can buy some that are, like, thousands of dollars. I was actually literally, like, six months ago looking at these and then you could buy them online for, like, $3.50 for, like, little little ones.

Mike DeHaan: [4:57] Oh, really?

Dan Austin: [4:58] But I didn't find what I liked yet, so I'm pretty selective.

Mike DeHaan: [5:00] Yeah. It was $1.50 and it has, like, you know, like, a little pot and, like, the rocks all embedded in there. And that's, like, the art that the guy did for it. I think it's pretty cool.

Dan Austin: [5:08] Yeah. I love those things.

Mike DeHaan: [5:10] Think so. But, yeah, that's a 15 year old tree. And so I get that's crazy. So if I were to take that thing and, I don't know, plant it in, like, a Chinese forest and come back in, like, a thousand year, that thing would be 40 feet tall.

Dan Austin: [5:20] Is that what the guy told you?

Mike DeHaan: [5:21] No. That's that's actually true. Like, I looked them up when Oh, okay. I like that species of tree. Yeah. They are basically just a super slow growing Chinese tree. Oh, I see. I see

Dan Austin: [5:29] what you're saying. Yeah. So It's not it's not a dwarf tree because it's stuck in a pot?

Mike DeHaan: [5:34] No. No. So, like, if if you were to go and plant that, it just grows, like, crazy slow. Okay. But Yeah. It's kinda cool. I thought it was a A good backdrop for the video. You know, it goes along with my shirt. If you guys, go check Yeah. Where's my you can see your swag at. I I sent you one of your house.

Dan Austin: [5:50] You did not. Which house did you send it to? I own several.

Mike DeHaan: [5:53] You own 28 of them. I don't know. Whichever one auto filled on Amazon is the one that went to. You better start calling our tenants and see which one stole your shirt.

Dan Austin: [6:02] Yeah. I I did not get a shirt. I'm kind of upset now. I didn't get any of my swag.

Mike DeHaan: [6:06] Well, I got I got a box from them here. But Okay. Yeah. If you if you guys could check us out on YouTube, you can see our collecting keys podcast shirts. Well, mine.

Dan Austin: [6:15] So

Mike DeHaan: [6:15] cool. If if you want one, first five people that send me a DM on Instagram, I'll send you one for free. Actually, I'll send you one. You gotta pay for your own shipping, but I'll give you the free shirt if you if you send me a DM. Oh, don't be so stingy. You

Dan Austin: [6:28] can have it for free.

Mike DeHaan: [6:29] I'll pay for it. No. We're gonna have, like, the one listener. We we get one listener on a regular basis. I've sort of learned the analytics that's over in England. And maybe, like, a cousin or something of mine that listens to us. Probably. And they're they're gonna shit. They're gonna, yeah, they're gonna DM me and be like, yeah, send me my shirt. I'm like, bro, I'm not paying $47 international. Alright. And I'll I'll bring you one next time I go over there. But, yeah, we're on a tangent there. So, yes, the market's officially turning though, especially in our our more expensive markets. Start of June, the mail and marketing response has been poor. Like, extremely poor.

Dan Austin: [7:08] Yeah. Not as great as we're normally seeing in

Mike DeHaan: [7:10] the Not even not as great. It's been, like, terrible, like, abysmal for this week.

Dan Austin: [7:15] I I think you gotta seasonally adjust it.

Mike DeHaan: [7:17] No, bro. Like like, we're we're at, like, 10% of normal right now.

Dan Austin: [7:21] Yeah. Yeah. That happens.

Mike DeHaan: [7:23] Yeah. It it does happen. Right? And and that's kinda part of the whole game, and that's something I was I was thinking about today too, thinking back to when, you know, when COVID started. And I remember because we were just getting our business started. I remember hopping on a a virtual meetup, which like a real estate meetup, you know, that was put on by one of the large wholesalers here. And there was several of the other large businesses that were on that call. And they were basically all making the proclamation that, like, things are starting to turn. So we're all gonna stop marketing. Right? And they're like, you know, like, one of them, like, laid off all of his staff. You know, he basically, like, several of them, like, actually shut the doors for a while. And, I mean, maybe we're ignorant because we were new. I don't know. But there was us Mostly. And and the two other businesses that are now basically running Spokane. We kinda just kept trucking and just kept going. And we're like, I don't know. We'll see what happens. And now the three of us monopolize Spokane, and those businesses are gone. You know? And it's funny

Dan Austin: [8:22] as those all those guys are back, but they're solopreneurs. They're just trying to scratch the surface again because they shut down took not that they lost everything, but shut their entire business down. But then they're still they took that time. Now they're back trying to claw claw their way back in, maybe in a different niche or whatever, but, they definitely lost a lot of tailwind when they did that.

Mike DeHaan: [8:40] For sure. They they gave up all their momentum that they had. Mhmm. You know? And I think the biggest thing to remember for this style of business is it's a momentum heavy business. Mhmm. You know? Like, as you're going through it, even though it can get uncomfortable when these periods where things are slowing down, things aren't as clear, You know, like, if you made a lot of money in real estate in the last couple years, congratulations. You you basically just played the game. You had the, you know, the Grand Theft Auto cheat code on. Everyone was winning for the last two years. And now it basically comes down to who has the resources and who has the stomach to sort of keep pushing through and keep riding out the ups and downs. And as things start to turn, the worst thing you can do is stop because you're gonna give up your momentum. You know? And you what

Dan Austin: [9:25] you have

Mike DeHaan: [9:25] to do is you you should almost, like, double down on your marketing. Keep going, Keep doing what you're doing and keep maybe doing stuff that's gonna help optimize your systems and make your brand stronger and just make your presence in your market stronger. Because that way when things do start to turn up again and you have people that are now sitting on a bunch of mail or a bunch of marketing or they're getting a bunch of outreach again, once everyone starts to and all people who have paused start to kick back up again, you're the one that stays with them because you have the best brand recognition, because you have the best follow-up systems, because you had the most consistent marketing that was getting in front of them over that period of time, you know, like, that weighs out. You know, that that that definitely, like, helps out a lot as you're as you're going through these these periods. And, you

Dan Austin: [10:11] know and like you said, it's a momentum game. Right? You gotta keep it going. The way I put it in perspective is, like, so the biggest flipper in your town. Right? So maybe what what do you think they've got? Say, 40 people on staff. Mhmm. Cruise and all that. So are they gonna just stop? Are they gonna shut their entire business down right now? No. Of course not. They might pivot. They might reduce their inventory. They might be looking at certain deals. So you have to adapt and find the deals that they're gonna be looking for because they're trying to protect themselves so that when they're flipping in a in a downhill, they're not losing money, because flipping on a on a market that's going down is not good. You always wanna be at the bottom of that trough and working your way up because the house gets worth more as you hold it. But anyhow, yeah, they're still gonna need to have inventory. So if you're the guy providing all of that inventory for them, and you've adjusted for what they're buying in this market, which is gonna be a little bit more conservative, which is fair. Yeah. They're not gonna just shut their doors and lay all 40 people off and stop collecting a paycheck.

Mike DeHaan: [11:05] I mean They're

Dan Austin: [11:05] not gonna stop. I mean, they might. And and guess what? As we found, somebody will fill their fill that void. Somebody else will be ready and aggressive and need deals, and you can provide those deals.

Mike DeHaan: [11:17] Yep. Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, it's it it is interesting. And, you know, I think it's like that with every business, but I think something that's direct to seller like this is especially true to have that have that momentum carrying through it. I mean, that's one of the big reasons too I like direct mail as well is because it leaves a I mean, it's it's funny. It's like a maybe a pint. It leaves a paper trail in your marketing system. Right? Mhmm. Because you'd be surprised when you send direct mail how many people keep the stuff that you send them, especially if they're, like, a decent quality. It's like we send, you know, like, kinda like natural quality letters or, like, postcards or things that are, like, branded, and they're not they don't just look like trash. If you're sending these yellow bankruptcy letters look like trash, we'll just throw those away. But if you have stuff that has some tangible value to it or, like, it feels higher quality, people will just, especially older people, stick them in a drawer, you know, and it'll, like, be there forever. Like, we just got a call was it, like, I guess, late last week from a seller, and he referenced he said he said, I just got a call from so and so who was our acquisition manager that stopped working for us in May 2021.

Mike DeHaan: [12:26] And, like, I'm got a letter. I got a letter from her. I got a letter from her. And, you know, I saw I went and looked at the last time we sent mail with her as, like, the sender, and the and the letter was February 2021. So they had kept this letter for sixteen months, fifteen months, whatever the hell that is.

Dan Austin: [12:45] That's a long time.

Mike DeHaan: [12:46] A long time. And they just called us out of the blue. And we're like, hey. We're curious if you were still interested in buying our house. Whatever that situation is, I have no idea. You know, we didn't get a deal from it because they wanna waste too much money. But Of course. You know, it's still the premise of that. We've had similar things like that happen all the time. Mhmm. You know, because they just kept the kept the mail. Right? And then, you know, I guarantee there was probably something where they went and they looked us up. They saw our brand website. You know, they've probably been hit with retargeting on Google and things like that because we run all that sort of stuff. And, you know, here we go. And they gave us a call. So, anyway, super important as we're getting into these kind of uncertain times, you know, be you know, keep that momentum up, keep marketing, keep pushing, keep making offers. And then I think just the big change you gotta make is be super cautious not to be making offers or making purchases based off speculation, but things will keep going up. I mean, if you're Yeah. Looking at things from a 30 timeline, then you likely will. But, honestly, if you're a wholesaler or you're a recreational investor, you're probably not looking at things on that or, like, are you trying to, you know, do flips or those sort of things you need to look on a shorter timeline, which is, you know, six months to two years. And that period of time for real estate right now is a big question. You know? And what the outcome's gonna be, I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [14:07] But it's important just to, you know, keep progressing, keep marching through no matter how. Don't use

Dan Austin: [14:12] the don't use the same numbers that you did on your last flip that you closed last month. Yeah. And that's really what it comes down to. You've gotta be a little bit more conservative

Mike DeHaan: [14:19] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [14:19] A little less optimistic, not completely pessimistic, but you still you know, we're taking down properties ourselves. We're still buying. We're still investors. We're just making sure that if we're taking a deal down, it makes sense for us in the near term to hold it. Yeah. And that's kind of really a good piece of criteria to look at.

Mike DeHaan: [14:38] Mhmm. Yep. And then, you know, you can leverage this whole situation as well in your sales pitches to leads. You know, mean, e even yesterday, we got somebody that, responded back and they thought they were being smart and they're like, yeah, I want but I like I'm not gonna sell for $400,000 to you. I can just hold on to it and sell for 800,000 next year. And we're like, well, that yeah. That that time's long gone, bro. Sorry. That's not how it works anymore. You know? And even if you, you know, had said that a couple of years ago, they would have called the bluff, and maybe they would have been somewhat right. But now it's, like, certain that that's not the way that it's gonna go.

Dan Austin: [15:11] Yep. So There's enough there's enough market news, whether it's the stock market or housing market that people are talking about now that it's like, okay. Do do you not watch TV?

Mike DeHaan: [15:20] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [15:21] Because I know you do, mister seller. I know. Right? Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [15:23] You probably watch it right now at 2PM on a Thursday sitting in your Yep.

Dan Austin: [15:28] Exactly. So come on. Don't use that BS with me. Yeah. But, you know, hey. They're negotiating too. You just gotta be able to have the right filters on when you're negotiating with them so you can cut through those Yeah. And find the true motivation.

Mike DeHaan: [15:40] Yeah. The true motivation. What a segue that was. That was that was a great segue. I'm getting good at that. Yeah. You you are. Still working on the endings, but you're get you're getting your your segues on there. So, yeah, that was what we wanna talk about for our educational piece today is when your marketing is coming through and you're trying to figure out how to be efficient, one of the biggest hurdles, that people face as they start to follow-up with these leads and pursue these leads and we're currently we see this pretty regularly with people in our instant investor program, where they're spinning these wheels with people that aren't truly motivated. And, there's some great ways you can sort of figure out if they're worth talking to or not. So really quick note about our instant investor program. And when we get back, we'll talk about how to truly prescreen a lead and see if they're worth your time. So be right back. The instant investor program is our twelve week group coaching program, which includes a self driven course and access to our private investor community. We will take you through the full process of how we find our leads, how we market, how we do our sales and follow-up, and how we determine the best strategy for every opportunity that comes our way.

Mike DeHaan: [16:44] On top of that, you will also join a community of other like minded investors nationwide that are all marching towards the same goals, and you'll have direct access to Dan and myself so you can continue learning and growing with us as we continue to adapt and grow our business. So whether you're a new investor or already established, our systems can help take you to the next level. So if you think you might be a good fit, go to the instantinvestorprogram.com and schedule a call, and we can have you talking to motivated leads in as little as two weeks. Alright, guys. Welcome back. So prescreening leads, very important, especially as you start to get a lot of volume of leads coming in, regardless of what kind of marketing you're doing. I guess unless you're doing, like, really niche, you know, marketing or expecting a low response rate. You will undoubtedly reach a time where you're having way more leads coming in than you or your staff can reasonably manage while also giving them the appropriate amount of time, like giving the good leads appropriate amount of time. So there's kind of a whole process that comes into play of how exactly do you prescreen your leads without prejudging them, and how do you determine if they actually have a motivation that are worthwhile talking to? Because Yep.

Mike DeHaan: [17:59] You know, it's not always as simple, you know, if you've talked to any leads before, you can't just say, like, well, what is your motivation? What is your what is your problem that's going on? Like, why, like, why is your life in shambles with that? They're not gonna be forthright. Because, you know, a lot of times they're embarrassed. A lot of times they they sometimes they don't even know. Right? Or, like, they have situations that are out of their control. They don't wanna share with you. They don't trust you yet. So there's a few different ways that we go about it. And one of the the basic ways that we do is we kinda have a checklist of things that we always ask. Right? This sort of is structured in a way in order to build into the conversation and establish that trust before you start asking the difficult questions. You know? So the main things we always ask are, do you actually wanna sell? You know? Like It's a very

Dan Austin: [18:46] important one.

Mike DeHaan: [18:47] It's a very important question. It seems silly. Do you think that they called you? Of course, they do. But very often, they don't actually wanna sell. They're just kinda looking for a a sucker's offer. Right? So do they actually wanna sell? If they do wanna sell, when are they looking to sell? What is their timeline? Right? Is it in the next thirty days? Is it in the next six months? A red flag answer is only if I get the offer that I want. Right? That means they're probably not gonna be that motivated. K? Proficient. Yep. Exactly. So what's the timeline to sell? What is their, condition of their house? Has it been and you don't say, like, the best way to do it is have you had any updates recently? Is there any major damage that needs to be taken care of? Things like that to ask more specifics. I've heard a lot of people coach, like, you know, how would you rate your house on a scale of one to 10? And you know what everyone always says? A six or seven. You know? It's like the cop out response.

Dan Austin: [19:43] It is. It's not an actual it's not an actual value

Mike DeHaan: [19:45] Yeah. Honestly. Well, so basically, they'll say they'll either say a 10 because, you know, they don't aren't actually being serious and they're screaming with you, or they'll say a six or a seven, which could mean the house is horrible or the house is just fine and, like, it's kinda just outdated.

Dan Austin: [19:58] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [19:59] Right? We found those very similar. Mean, we've we've walked in the house where people have said, oh, yeah. It's a six. And they're like, man, there is literally a science experiment growing on your bathroom ceiling.

Dan Austin: [20:08] Yep. And I think the big way you look at that is like, okay. What's the age of the house? Yeah. What's the seller? Okay. So if it's if it's a nineteen fifties built home and the seller's 80 years old Mhmm. When do you really think they've actually done updates? Because I would guess that most of those updates that the seller's talking about were done in the early nineties, if at all. So you just gotta ask the question. Right? And then you're gonna have to deduce what's the condition of that property. Yeah. And and know the neighborhood and all that sort of stuff. Because if it's like a nice neighborhood that was built in the fifties in our home market, that you could drive by and say, yeah, that's not a bad neighborhood, it's probably gonna be okay. Even if it has original stuff, it's probably gonna be an okay condition just because that's the neighborhood, the demographic of people living there.

Mike DeHaan: [20:48] Correct. And And I think that's a very important point too is your definition of good, if you're the kind of person that is trying to become a real estate investor and is willing to spend, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars trying to find investment opportunities, Your financial position and living position is probably very different than many of these people. So realize that Mhmm. Their definition of good or fine is likely very different from yours, and that's just gonna be the nature of the beast. Right? So third thing, does the house, like, what's the general condition? Does it need updates? Are there any major repairs that are needed? The fourth thing, why did they call you as opposed to a realtor? Now that is a great wraparound way to ask what their motivation is without actually saying, you know, do you have any financial problems? Do you have any personal problems? Things like that that aren't actually gonna elicit a super kind response, especially if they don't trust you yet. And if you just ask, like, why are you calling me instead of a realtor? You'd be surprised what comes out from that. Like, some people will say, like, I don't wanna deal with a realtor, you know, which is can be kind of a cop out answer.

Mike DeHaan: [21:47] That can be true. That can be them trying to voice something out. But a lot of times, people will say, like, oh, I'm actually getting divorced. Like, I need to I need to do something that's kinda simple in that. So they'll say, well, I actually I have tenants. My tenants aren't paying, and I worry about having to deal with a realtor with that whole process and having to be able to open houses, things like that. Those are all great things to start to reveal the motivations without having asked that question.

Dan Austin: [22:10] Because a lot of times, you might know what the motivations are from the data. Right? Correct. If they came off a bankruptcy list or a divorce list, you already know that. But you're not gonna come out and say, hey. Hey, missus Seller. I heard you're getting divorced. Correct. Cheat on you? You wanna sell your house.

Mike DeHaan: [22:22] Yeah. Right? And and that and that is super valid as if you are going in your stacking your lists, which is, you know, a big part of what we teach in in our instant investor program is and how we get a lot of our deals is we stack these different niche lists. You can go and pull public data that have people that have bankruptcies, people that have liens, you know, people that have all these, you know, vacant properties, things like that. And you find the ones that have the most number of issues and you mail them or you outreach to them specifically. And when people call in, because those are the only people you targeted, you know there's a skeleton in their closet. Right. Right? But they don't necessarily need to know that you know that. Right? Yeah.

Dan Austin: [22:58] Absolutely. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:59] You need to wait for them to give that to you.

Dan Austin: [23:01] I like that last question for a couple reasons too. One, for trying to uncover that motivation without actually saying like, hey, what's going on in your life that makes you wanna sell to me? Right? But also, like it because I think a lot of newer wholesalers are worried that maybe a realtor is their competition, so they don't wanna bring up the they don't wanna bring up the r in the conversation because then the seller will know realtors are out there. It's like, no, they already know that. Right. But they're and they're calling you, or they've raised their hand to you recognizing that's an option for them. And maybe being maybe maybe realtor would be a number one option if unless you provide something better or maybe they have that motivation like Mike was just explaining where they're like, you know what? I'm going through this messy divorce or I have these tenants. I just want something easy and I'm worried about what'll happen. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [23:45] Or I

Dan Austin: [23:45] don't wanna pay realtor fees. And you told me in your postcard that you don't charge fees.

Mike DeHaan: [23:49] Mhmm. Yeah. And, I mean, on that note too, we've legitimately had people that are just like, I hate realtors. And we're like, why do you hate realtors? Like, I just think they suck. And they're like, okay. Well, if you list the realtor, you'll make more money. Like, I don't care. I'm so stubborn. I hate realtors so much. I will make less money just so I don't have to use them.

Dan Austin: [24:07] Yep. Totally. And so there's tons of reasons why, but don't be I guess the point being is don't be afraid to bring up the r word Yeah. Because they know they exist. Mhmm. And they aren't necessarily your necessarily your competition. If your competition is typically either gonna list with a realtor or them going with you, it's probably not that thick of a deal in general anyways.

Mike DeHaan: [24:26] Yep. Yeah. Exactly. And then after you ask all those questions and these things can kind of be over, you know, a prolonged conversation. This can be over several conversations. You know, you kinda just have to read the room. Like, I know that can be challenging, especially if you're over the phone, but this is a sales based job. Right? Like, there is a sales approach, and you have to be able to pick up on verbal social cues and read the energy of the other person. But after you have those basic, questions figured out, the last question you ask and this is another thing people teach is they'll start with this question. It should be the last question you ask, is what is your price expectation for this house? What are you hoping to sell this house for? Mhmm. And that will be kind of indicative of if there's gonna be a deal or not. Not particularly in what the number is, but in how they sort of present that number to you. Right? Because everyone pretty much everyone, I would say 90% of the deals we've gotten, they have asked for a number that's significantly higher than we ended up contracting it for. Yep. Right? Yeah. But what you gotta do is you listen to how they ask for that number, weighed in with the prescreening questions that you ask them and, like, their situation. And you have to be able to sort of infer if that is actually what they, you know, need to sell it for or what they're willing to sell it for or if that's just what they're asking for, which are very, very different.

Dan Austin: [25:46] Yeah. I think that this is, like, a pivotal point in the conversation because most people, like the when I like, lay people, when it comes to negotiations, they think that this that point in time, that question is the most important question of everything. They're so used to in their mind negotiating, and there's always a winner, and there's always a loser. And it's these the the car sales guy who's taken the piece of paper back to their manager and coming back with another number, and you say, no. I want it cheaper. And they come back, and they're like, no. We want it for this much. Mhmm. That's that it's actually not. All the other questions we just ask are the most important piece. But you gotta remember your sellers might be a little coy, and they think that this is the most important thing. And so they're negotiating based on whatever they're they believe a negotiation is, which you, as an experienced wholesaler, know that that's not how you negotiate. And it's not just about that number.

Mike DeHaan: [26:34] Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It goes back to the core of this is a people business. Mhmm. You know? It's not a real estate business, like like it is because the real estate's the collateral, but it's all about the people and solving their problems. You know? And the people that go into it with, like, the offer first, offer first, offer first, you know, trying to get their number immediately, Those are the kind of people that give us a bad rap. So those are the ones that are just looking for the grandma that's ignorant

Dan Austin: [26:58] to what they're having to do.

Mike DeHaan: [26:59] Absolutely. Absolutely. And they're just like, oh, yeah. You want a $130,000 for your health house that I know is worth $2.70? Yeah. Absolutely. Let's do it. I don't care what situation is. Let's get it locked up right now. And they'll talk real quick, and let's try to, you know, beat them down.

Dan Austin: [27:10] Yeah. Sign it. Sign it.

Mike DeHaan: [27:11] Sign Exactly. Yeah. You know? And and if you wanna do this business correctly and you wanna have some longevity and, honestly, you wanna get more deals without having to, you know, rob grandma or do anything shady. You have to listen to their needs and their wants. And, you know, it should be a win win situation for the most part at the end of the day.

Dan Austin: [27:31] It doesn't have to be a loser and a winner.

Mike DeHaan: [27:33] Yeah. It doesn't have to be a loser and a winner. Exactly. It's not it's not like you're, I don't know, having like a I guess I guess a lot of transactions technically should be win wins, but sometimes if you get sold on stuff pretty hard, it doesn't feel that way. You know, I get like, if your sister-in-law or something comes over and, you know, pitches your wife on some MLM products and you see the billing, you're like, what the fuck? Like Right. That's that's a a win win situation. Trying to support your business.

Dan Austin: [28:00] Yeah. That well, that's the thing is most people's experience with salespeople are not good. Yeah. Because they feel like they're always getting like, somebody's selling them on something, and they pay for that thing. Even if they enjoy it, there's still this thing in the back of their head that they lost.

Mike DeHaan: [28:15] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [28:16] Yeah. So that's where it's so much more about solving the problem. And that's where you're also hear new investors say, like, I just felt so bad. I had this rapport with this person that had to give this really lowball offer. It's like, yeah. But what are you giving them in return

Mike DeHaan: [28:29] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [28:29] For that for that? Is that what the property's worth, or are you just giving them a crappy offer? Correct. If that's what the property's worth, but in turn, your profit is being earned by helping them. Mhmm. It's not like you're giving them a bad offer. It's that you're helping them solve something and there's some profit in there for you.

Mike DeHaan: [28:44] Yeah. You know, and it's also you know, that's where the integrity of it comes in too. Right? Because if you're going and giving them a lowball offer, knowing that they're gonna be walking away with nothing or they're gonna be, you know, even having to bring money to closing, which I heard about people doing this. They'll go in and they'll they'll, like, have an offer where the seller has to bring, like, $10,000 to close and to pay off their mortgage, then the wholesaler is assigning it and making, like, $50. It's like, okay. That's shady as fuck. You know what you do? Yeah. You make 30,000. You allow them to make 10,000, you know, or even better yet, may have them make 15. You make 15. My math might have been off there. I don't know. And you know what? You'd be happy when you got a pretty decent payday, honestly. And they're able to go and do something with their life now instead of you're putting them into more of a crippling situation. Right. So, you know, like, those the the the problem solving part of it and the relationship part of this business is super important, you know, and it will allow you to have a better brand. It will allow you to do deals more consistently, and it will allow you to be a positive contributor to society and to be one of these real estate investors who just has such a bad rap and gets spit on by everyone else out there.

Mike DeHaan: [29:52] You know? Like, it just because we we do get a bad rap. Right? All all investors do Yeah. By the by the Yeah. General population. No

Dan Austin: [29:58] matter who how big you are, how small you are. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [30:00] You know? And and everyone looks past the the dirtbag houses that we buy, you know, the hoarder houses that are in, like, a nice neighborhood that we, fix up and we sell to a family, and they'll be all pissed off. They'll be like, well, why the hell did you sell that house for $400,000? You know, I I, you know, don't wanna have to buy a house for that. Like, you're increasing prices. It's like, would you rather live next to squatters? Right. And some of them would say yes because they're like, well, now you created homeless people because the squatters are on the street. It's like Good god. You know? Whatever. Maybe that's a maybe that's a Pacific

Dan Austin: [30:45] Yeah. Because what we see too, lot of times with newer investors, is they're spending a lot of time building rapport, but not moving the dial. They're friend zoned, right, so to speak. And then they feel bad about the offer and they they spent two hours on the phone with the person. Mhmm. So qualifying them upfront is huge to avoid some of that.

Mike DeHaan: [31:05] Yeah. They will avoid a lot of that and then avoid a lot of drive time, a lot of in person time that's not necessary. We we deal with this with new acquisition managers, and they come in and work for us is they wanna, you know, pursue every lead to the fullest. Mhmm. So then they're, like, going and booking appointments for houses, like, where the person wants $400,000. The house is at its best worth $350,000, and the house needs work. Right? Like like, why are you realistically doing that? And, you know, then you listen to the full conversation. They don't actually wanna sell. They're sitting for an offer. You know, the house is in great condition. They are willing to work with the realtor if that's what will get the most money. Yep. No. They don't have, like, a realistic timeline. Like, I like, don't meet any of the criteria, but they're going and getting in front of them because that person was cordial.

Dan Austin: [31:49] Yep. Right? And we need them for our business to meet at least, what, two of the five?

Mike DeHaan: [31:53] Yeah. That's basically what we do is so how how the process works for us is the lead comes in. You know, we have a call center that we'll get some of these answers, you know, depending on how well the the call center, rep takes in the call, which varies pretty dramatically. Our acquisitions manager will call back. They will go through the all those qualifying questions and sort of, like, you know, feel out the temperament of the seller and sort of see what the situation feels like. And then if they meet two of the five situations, two of the five criteria so, basically, yes, they do wanna sell. You know, the house maybe needs some work. Their timeline, we say, is within the next ninety days is what we look at. They are willingly accepting that working with us will make them less than working with a realtor, but they've still chosen to make that choice. And then if their price point is less than what we think the house is is worth at, like, it's Yeah. Fixed up value. If they meet two of those five things, then we will go and pursue getting appointment and spending some time with this person and trying to build that rapport and get a deal done. Right. And then, you know, something that will be interesting is if they meet two of those criteria on initials prescreen, you'd be surprised how many of the other ones suddenly start to come out as they start to trust you more, as you start to have a better relationship with them, as they start to be willing to share more with you. You know, most of those deals will end up having, you know, four or five of those those options there.

Mike DeHaan: [33:22] So Great. Yeah. So super important as you're, going through and starting to get a lot of lead volume. And a great thing about having these questions too is it also makes the initial sales process easy to hire for and easy to screen sorry, easy to hire for and easy easy to outsource because you can turn it into a script. You can turn it into a checklist that, you know, someone can come in with a little bit of training and actually do that for you. You know?

Dan Austin: [33:48] So have some level of consistency in your business while you're not actually doing the function. You can say, okay. I know they're at least asking these questions and following these processes.

Mike DeHaan: [33:56] Yep. Yep. And and then even when you get to a point, like, you know, when you're starting out, you're probably gonna be running most of the sales, but gonna you're get a lot of leads that you don't have time to prescreen and, you know, manage your hot leads yourselves. Then you bring on a lead manager that does that for you. And then, you know, once you bring on an acquisitions manager, your acquisitions manager will reach a point where they can't, you know, manage all the leads and do the follow ups. Lead manager do it for them, and then you'll bring on a second acquisitions manager as you're starting to have more leads, the lead manager can do that for all of them. And it just basically becomes a pipeline, right, of they have the initial call with, like, you know, the call center or a lead manager or voice mail, however you wanna do it. Then they have the prescreen. And then your skilled salespeople, they only have to spend time with the hottest leads. They're not spending time trying to hunt people down or chase people down that are unresponsive or not motivated. Which is the most, profitable time for them is motivated leads. Mhmm. Yep. And I think when we figured that out, was it about a year and a half ago when we started getting that system down, that was when our business went from being like, you know, felt like we were sprinting all over the place trying to, like, figure stuff out to all of a sudden we were just purring, and we were doing super, super well.

Dan Austin: [35:03] It feels weird at first because you're like, well, we're filtering some of these leads we're paying to get. Correct. But it's like, then when you're giving the appropriate amount of time to the motivated leads

Mike DeHaan: [35:12] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [35:13] You start closing more. It's kind of counterintuitive.

Mike DeHaan: [35:15] But Yeah.

Dan Austin: [35:15] You gotta filter them down and then just focus on those really motivated leads.

Mike DeHaan: [35:19] Yeah. And and a big concern people always have is they're like, why don't I wanna miss opportunities? And you know what sucks? You're going to. That's kinda part of the game. Right?

Dan Austin: [35:27] Once you come to terms with that and recognize Yeah. That you're going to miss opportunities Mhmm. Or competitors are gonna take stuff from you, like Mhmm. Once you come to terms with that, it's like, yeah. It's fine. It's

Mike DeHaan: [35:38] an abundance mindset, and that's why you just keep your business process going, keep opportunities coming in the door. And then, you know, if you miss an opportunity, that's fine. You know, there's gonna be more coming down the track.

Dan Austin: [35:47] Totally. Yep.

Mike DeHaan: [35:48] Cool. Right on. Anything else on that topic, Dan?

Dan Austin: [35:51] No. I think that's good. Especially today's market, making sure that you're getting the most motivated leads, to work to work with you because that's where you're gonna find the the best deals that you can hopefully wholesale to flippers that are looking for better deals right now in this kind of awkward time as we transition in the beginning of the summer into a new market. Yep. Exactly. But where do

Mike DeHaan: [36:11] you find motivated leads? Well, if you start working with us and get some group coaching Find yourself. The instantinvestorprogram.com, you can go check that out and schedule a call with one of us and see if you would be a good fit.

Dan Austin: [36:24] And wait. Why don't I just go and pay one of those companies that just sends me leads? Those are really better.

Mike DeHaan: [36:28] That's that's another one for a whole different conversation.

Dan Austin: [36:31] Different different conversation.

Mike DeHaan: [36:33] Yeah. Yeah. Why why any, like, turnkey provider for, you know, providing leads, providing VAs quotation. Yeah. Leads in quotation, providing VAs, providing what else do people provide? Like, know,

Dan Austin: [36:48] cold car.

Mike DeHaan: [36:49] Rental properties. Current current rental properties. I mean, that stuff's a giant waste. That's something that we should definitely touch on in the future. Bro, I talked to this VA staffing firm the other day. I was just in a rabbit hole. We're in a rabbit hole now in this podcast. And it was like a referral from a friend. They're like, hey. These people have, like, acquisitions VA. You should talk to them. Was like, yeah. Fine. The lady, like, emailed me. She's like, let's have an appointment, fifteen minute appointment. $2,500, they're gonna charge you to find a VA. Wow. You know how easy it is to find a VA?

Dan Austin: [37:17] It doesn't cost you any money.

Mike DeHaan: [37:19] It costs nothing. It doesn't take any time.

Dan Austin: [37:21] It cost you takes

Mike DeHaan: [37:21] you twenty minutes Yeah. To go post a job listing on, you know, Upwork or online jobs at PH or Reddit or, you know, any sort of, like, job wanna

Dan Austin: [37:32] be super lazy too, you just tell them to send you a video of Yeah. You know, ask answering some questions. So then you get to hear hear them talk, you know, look at their education level, and then you could filter those. You don't have to you've maybe spent, like, thirty minutes total, and you've got a a list of 10 potential VAs

Mike DeHaan: [37:47] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [37:48] That are rock stars.

Mike DeHaan: [37:48] Exactly. And these people wanna charge $2,800 to, I guarantee what they do is that. And then they basically just take them. They go, here you go. You can pick one. That'll be 20 or $100, please. Unbelievable. And then

Dan Austin: [38:00] they charge you double what they're paying this this VA to to work for them.

Mike DeHaan: [38:04] Exactly. So if you want someone to find you a VA, shoot me a DM. I'll find you one for a thousand bucks. Yeah. And I'll do better than them.

Dan Austin: [38:11] Yeah. It'd be way better them. So

Mike DeHaan: [38:14] reject. Anyway, that's a different tangent. Alright. But, yeah, if you guys wanna learn how to find motivated leads and close deals, even in this market, we actually are some of our I mean, all of our guys in our guys and girl in our instant investment program have

Dan Austin: [38:28] been doing pretty well.

Mike DeHaan: [38:29] We had one of our guys just closed his first deal, and he made, what, $36,000 on it. So Yeah.

Dan Austin: [38:35] That's That's amazing.

Mike DeHaan: [38:36] Pretty

Dan Austin: [38:36] sweet. That's like a good first deal. It is a deal. Good for him.

Mike DeHaan: [38:40] So shout out to you, Corey, if you if you listen to this. We should get a testimonial from him too. Oh. So instantinvestorprogram.com. Go ahead and book a call with one of us, see if you're a good fit. It's definitely not for everyone. We want people that are, you know, wanting to work, wanting to get after it, and want to, you know, make real money. It's not like a thing where you can come in and kinda dick around and expect match to happen. That's not how real estate investing works. But in instantinvestorprogram.com, go check it out. And then for the podcast, you guys should definitely share this. Share it with your friends. If you have anyone that's remotely interested in being an off market real estate investor or making, you know, real money, come on our podcast. We appreciate it. We're looking to keep growing this thing. You can check out our our podcast website, clickandkeyspodcast.com. And on there, we have different giveaways for different tools that we've used from, like, our calculator. We have an ebook that sort of gives a general outline, all sorts of stuff. So besides that, share the podcast, download all the episodes, and I think that's kind of it. Cool. Perfect.

Dan Austin: [39:39] Right on.

Mike DeHaan: [39:39] Out of here. Thanks, guys. Send us off, Tan.

Dan Austin: [39:41] Yeah. Let's see. I had a really good quote. Let me remember it. It's in the spirit of Top Gun Maverick being released, which I'm pretty pumped about. You would me. To go to theaters. Don't don't you would be me. I'm an eighties kid. This that that's one of the most But

Mike DeHaan: [39:56] they're they're they're the air force and you're an army guy. Or they're the navy and you're an army guy.

Dan Austin: [39:59] They're the navy. I'll get I I don't mind navy aviators, man. They're they're cool dudes, especially because Tom Cruise and Top Gun. I mean, that's it's an impact, right, on my life. And I was actually texting my cousin. Was like, there's literally nothing cooler in this world than Tom Cruise wearing a bomber jacket on a motorcycle with no helmet. Like, that that is the coolest thing ever. But the quote I had was, you two really are cowboys, from Iceman, and that that feel like that describes us. Alright.

Mike DeHaan: [40:28] So two two cowboys. Signing off. Alright. Thanks, guys. See you.

Speaker 2: [40:34] Thanks for listening. Please leave us a review on iTunes wherever you get your podcasts, and check us out at collectingkeyspodcast.com for tips and guides on starting your own real estate investment and wholesaling business.