Collecting Keys - Real Estate Investing Podcast

Guru Watch: How to Vet Real Estate Coaches, Gurus and Deal Sponsors

Real estate education is a business, and a big one. Over hundreds of episodes, Mike DeHaan, Dan Austin and Dylan Koch have covered what happens when big-name programs and funds fall apart — and what they've learned from paying for coaching themselves. This guide is a practical framework for vetting a mentor, a program or a person who wants to hold your money.

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Why does real estate attract so many gurus?

Dan's take on EP 71 is that the viral overnight-success story is the product. Dramatic "no money in the deal, 50,000 units in a year" claims get broadcast because they sell education, not because they're repeatable. He says those stories usually leave out the springboard — existing capital, a specific skill set, a connection who cleared roadblocks, or lucky timing. Dan calls himself a "basic ass investor" who has been grinding since 2015-2016 and says he's still laying the foundation.

Mike makes a related point on EP 374: many online gurus no longer do deals. They rotate from product to product chasing affiliate commissions, teaching what worked years ago. A $5,000-a-year software product can pay a $1,000 referral fee, so before you buy anything a coach recommends, look up the affiliate program and the promoter's relationship to it. On EP 289 the hosts add that the most useful guests are active operators; once someone exits or shifts to raising money and brand building, they recycle old stories.

From: EP 71 · EP 374 · EP 289

What are the red flags on a coach or program?

On EP 152, after their first non-real-estate mastermind, Mike and Dan listed coach red flags directly: leading with "I'm a fiduciary" or "I'm honest" right before a hard sell, refusing to provide testimonials or let you talk to current members, and shaming you for doing due diligence. Dan adds on EP 153 that if a coach can't show how they'll get you from point A to point B faster and can't produce client referrals, walk.

Dylan's list on EP 340 is specific to real estate influencers: leading with assets under management, door count, round cash-flow numbers, big-check photos, claims of thousands of deals or 27 deals a month from one acquisition manager, and drifting into politics, religion or car content. On EP 506 the hosts argue that a platform suddenly becoming faith-based with no prior history often coincides with failing businesses. On EP 292, after a DM exchange with Pace Morby, Mike named another pattern: if the answer to every question is "nobody in the industry knows how to do this but me," and the recommended vendors share branding with the guru's own companies.

From: EP 152 · EP 340 · EP 292 · EP 506

How do you fact-check a guru's numbers?

Mike's position on EP 389 is that you can usually kill a claim with arithmetic. He describes an influencer group advertising 206 deals and $2M in revenue — about $6,400 per deal — three days after posting that their average deal size was $15,000. On EP 265 he and Dan run the same test on deal counts: at roughly 100 calls to contract, 60-plus deals a month would require around 10,000 calls, which two salespeople cannot physically make.

You can also pull public records. Mike says he checked a local competitor's dispo'd deals against county records and found under 40% actually closed with them. On EP 289 the hosts note that 30-40% of signed contracts not closing is normal in their experience, and that big claimed deal counts are often community or franchise deals rather than the person's own transactions — similar to saying you "own 500 doors" after putting $50,000 into a fund. EP 265 also covers AI marketing claims: Mike says most "AI" tools sold by influencers are white-labeled existing software.

From: EP 389 · EP 265 · EP 289

Why is "cash flow" the most oversold number in the business?

On EP 49 Dan walks through a real Spokane 3/2 rental: $2,200 gross rent, minus $1,200 PITI, $100 landlord-paid water and sewer, 10% operating expense, 10% CapEx and 5% vacancy leaves about $450 a month. A year of that is roughly $9,000 — about what a furnace with an AC coil costs in their market. Add a $2,000 unit turn and the year goes negative. His conclusion: unusually high advertised cash flow on an ordinary single-family rental is often just deferred maintenance.

EP 155 tests the "four properties and $4,000 a month" claim against their own portfolio. It should cash flow about $9,400 a month with reserves set aside, but roughly $20,000 of expenses over two months put the account backwards. On EP 274 they argue the math that worked from 2015 to 2021 no longer pencils, citing taxes going from $2,800 to $4,000 on one property and insurance doubling. Their warning: be skeptical of stage gurus preaching appreciation, because they made their money in a zero-rate, rapidly appreciating decade.

From: EP 49 · EP 155 · EP 274 · EP 150

What has the show said about subject-to and "no money down" education?

Dan breaks down the mechanics on EP 179. Subject-to means taking title and making the seller's existing mortgage payments, but the seller's name stays on the loan and they remain personally liable — something he says many sellers don't understand when it's pitched as "you can walk away." Most mortgages don't allow formal assumption, and the due-on-sale clause lets a lender call the loan when title transfers. His view: creative finance is a tool to use sparingly, not a business model.

They lived the downside. On EP 259 they report buying three duplexes subject to existing DSCR loans and having the lender call the notes due about four days after closing; they only got movement after six weeks by threatening to deed the properties back. EP 301 covers a question they say nobody in a large sub-to community could answer — what happens when the person guaranteeing the underlying mortgage dies. On EP 271 they push back on the "other people's money" narrative: someone funds the gap between the loan balance and the purchase price, and it's usually the buyer.

From: EP 179 · EP 259 · EP 301 · EP 495

What do you require before handing over money?

EP 212 is the most direct checklist on the show. Mike's four safeguards: only invest with people you personally know or whose testimonials you can verify; have a disinterested third party — a lawyer or a seasoned investor — review every document before you wire; for a loan on a specific deal, insist on a promissory note, deed of trust and personal guarantee recorded through a third-party title company or attorney rather than the fundraiser; and only invest money you can afford to lose.

The hosts have tracked several cases, attributing claims to the source. EP 211 discusses podcast host Matthew Motil's alleged scheme involving unrecorded promissory notes. EP 226 covers the alleged Ponzi scheme at Croft and Frost, where the hosts' stated warning sign was the owner publicly claiming a $700M net worth. EP 425 covers the class action filed over Ryan Pineda's Tykes NFT project. EP 509 walks through investor claims about Pace Morby's Sub2 fund, including a now-deleted post alleging a locked portal and unanswered emails.

On EP 491 the hosts add a sponsor filter: figure out whether the person is the actual operator or just the spokesperson, and only invest with people active in that exact space for years. Dan's rule for anyone still scaling is not to invest anywhere until you have a cash cushion.

From: EP 212 · EP 491 · EP 497 · EP 509

When is paying for coaching actually worth it?

The hosts are not anti-coaching. On EP 150 Mike says a roughly $5,000 group investment in 2019 led to millions in equity and revenue. On EP 168 he describes three categories of coach — mindset, strategy and tactics, and CEO/leadership — and says he and Dan picked a strategy and systems coach, Steve Rozenberg, because structuring the business was their bottleneck. He says they made back more than 10x the $50,000 they spent. Match the coach to your revenue, team size and business type, and expect to outgrow them.

Their views on cost have shifted. On EP 81 Mike described their own program at $1,000 up front plus $500 a month with about 30 members, and criticized programs charging thousands a month as cash grabs. On EP 135 he said you can learn plenty from groups at $10,000 or less. By EP 362 and EP 439 he's describing paying $5,000 for a Hormozi acquisition.com workshop and $15,000 a year for the level-two program — and notes acquisition.com's model is to teach owners for a fee, then identify the best performers as acquisition targets. On EP 439 Mike says a forecast showed standing up their own operation in about four markets would equal the income of 80 franchises, so they wrote off over $250,000 invested in the franchise.

From: EP 168 · EP 81 · EP 362 · EP 439

Frequently asked questions

What are the fastest red flags that a real estate guru isn't legit?

On EP 340 and EP 374 the hosts flag leading with assets under management or door count, round cash-flow numbers, big-check photos, a "secret weapon" product that changes every month or two, and no verifiable current deal activity. On EP 152 they add refusing testimonials and shaming you for doing due diligence.

How do I check whether someone's deal numbers are real?

Do the math. On EP 389 Mike divided a group's claimed $2M revenue by 206 deals and got about $6,400 per deal, contradicting their posted $15,000 average. He also pulled public records on a local competitor's dispo'd deals and found under 40% closed with them.

Is subject-to investing a scam?

No — on EP 179 Dan explains it as a legitimate but narrow tool. His concerns are with how it's taught: sellers often don't understand they stay personally liable, most loans have a due-on-sale clause, and few teachers address what happens when a lender calls the note, as happened on the hosts' own deal in EP 259.

What should I require before lending money on a real estate deal?

On EP 212 Mike's answer is a promissory note, a deed of trust and a personal guarantee, recorded by a third-party title company or attorney rather than the person raising the money, plus an independent review of every document. This is education, not investment advice — talk to your own attorney.

Are masterminds and coaching worth paying for at all?

The hosts think so, with limits. Mike credits an early group investment and a strategy coach with major returns (EP 150, EP 168), but on EP 135 says you can learn plenty from groups at $10,000 or less and should walk if someone wants $100,000 plus a piece of your deals without working deals with you.

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