Do the gurus actually believe in God? Or is it the next grift?

Mike DeHaan: [0:02] Our lives are so intertwined at this point. There's probably some case for that. Yeah. There is. Mean, you're literally the only person besides my wife that I have talked to almost every single day since 2019.

Dan Austin: [0:14] Yep. And I know your Social Security number. I know your phone number. I know you're a freaking elementary school. I know.

Mike DeHaan: [0:19] I know. I know. Question. Security question. Mother's maiden name, the street you grew up on. I know your wife's Social Security

Dylan Koch: [0:26] number. Right.

Dan Austin: [0:27] Dude, I know. Insurance policies on each other now.

Mike DeHaan: [0:29] Yeah. Literally. I have insurance on your kids. You don't know that, but I do.

Dan Austin: [0:33] Cole's gonna need it, dude. Give me half of that payout.

Mike DeHaan: [0:36] Yeah. Seriously? That's funny. You're gonna like my intro. Let me do the intro. Okay. So Dan's gonna do the intro. Alright. As it fades out, let's hear it.

Dan Austin: [0:45] I practiced this Welcome back to the Grifting with God podcast. I will be your host today, Daniel, all the way from the lion's den here with our cohost Michael, the archangel himself, the warrior of gods, and our nondenominational Dylan, your name is not in the bible anywhere. I had to look it up. It's of Welsh origin. You're basically a heathen. And so you you can participate, but you will not be grifting with God today as Michael and I will be. This is the only podcast where we will teach you how to use your faith to grift money from your Instagram followers. So please follow along. Praise he. Praise he.

Dylan Koch: [1:24] There is plenty of that out there. I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel here.

Dan Austin: [1:29] I'm just copying these

Dylan Koch: [1:30] other guys.

Mike DeHaan: [1:31] Oh my god. So sorry if you guys are religious and you're listening to this. Welcome to collecting keys. We've just had so many discussions recently about all of the I don't know. I would say, like, washed up maybe. A lot of the Instagram, Internet influencers of times past have really like, out of kinda nowhere

Dan Austin: [1:51] Dug in.

Mike DeHaan: [1:52] Have really sort of started to find their faith in a way that feels so disingenuine to me and to a lot of us. It's just like, it's tired, guys. And you have these people that have done nothing Christ like in their entire life, at least as far as I can tell, that all of a sudden it's their entire platform. If that isn't like the biggest red flag, I don't know what to tell you.

Dylan Koch: [2:13] I think some of it is disingenuous, grifting, all the above. And then there's some out there that's just like, I think they just they failed at like their business endeavors or they maybe they feel like they failed at life and they're actually trying to turn to this, but it's still like cringey.

Mike DeHaan: [2:28] Yeah. It's so cringey. And, you know, we have very good friends that that's a huge part of their platform, but it isn't their entire platform. It's also they actually do things outside of that. I feel like if every single message that you post is exclusively about faith or it's sort of like stuff that is I don't know. It's like clickbaity around your relationship with God with all these kind of things where you know you're gonna get a bunch of people that are going to engage with it, but it doesn't actually lead to anything of value Or it doesn't reflect your past in any way? I'm like, what are you doing?

Dan Austin: [3:02] Yeah. So these guys are a little bit we've had a couple theories in the group chat here. One is that there was a conference where all these guys go to, and, they talked about how using faith will increase your sales. I really do believe that or something they go to their guru conferences where they learn all this sort Absolutely. Of And and what's that one? Name one of the big gurus that goes on stage and talks all the time.

Mike DeHaan: [3:23] Andy Elliott. Andy Elliott. Right? He's up there like, yeah, dude.

Dan Austin: [3:26] I increased sales 23% by talking about faith. I have faith with God, bro.

Mike DeHaan: [3:30] Yeah. Woah,

Dylan Koch: [3:31] dude. Was

Mike DeHaan: [3:32] pretty good.

Dylan Koch: [3:32] You're good there.

Mike DeHaan: [3:34] Yeah. Would be good.

Dan Austin: [3:34] Meanwhile, he's wearing his own shirt that says Elliot, his own name on it, which is like, I feel like that in itself is like not a good thing. You know what I mean?

Mike DeHaan: [3:44] I really feel like, like, those kind of guys are a good example is their entire platform has been highly aggressive. They haven't really done things that would appear to be for the greater good or or really sort of kosher in that environment at all. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, all of their content is his wife talking about how God is their only leader Mhmm. And, like, pictures of, like, their company prayer group Yeah. And, like, all these, like, candid photos, quote unquote, of him, like, praying, like, by himself, like, on a couch. Like, no. Like, you you've never done this. Like, why is this a new thing? Like, obviously, business is not going very well for your sales training. You're trying to reach out to that new audience.

Dan Austin: [4:19] Yeah, dude. He's like, do you know what it is? Because him and his wife are they're they're a fucking they're stressed out on GLPs and anabolics. They're both taking testosterone clearly. And they're just like, we need more money so we can just stay lean. You know? What is it? It's it's is it faith?

Mike DeHaan: [4:34] What did that one dude say? It was like faith? Or all about faith, fitness, and what? Like, I can't

Dan Austin: [4:40] the three f's. It was like faith, fitness, and like, I

Mike DeHaan: [4:43] don't know, whatever the other f's

Dan Austin: [4:44] is. Yeah. Still, I was like, oh my god. You guys are getting crazy out here.

Mike DeHaan: [4:47] So you have those guys, and you have like the David Greens who have completely fallen out of favor in every way because all of their real estate is failing. Right? They've were ousted he's ousted by bigger pockets. His entire sort of influential sphere is gone. I'm pretty sure the rest of his business is doing pretty bad. And now he starts an entire YouTube channel purely just about his relationship with God. And I'm like, what is your intention with this? I don't know. It feels like

Dan Austin: [5:13] a common religious play. It's a common play because I think there's also some level of, like, of followership, which happens to, know, be in the church. Right? So, like, there's people of status within the church, right, depending on what type of religion you are. But, like, you know, if you're a pastor, like, you're kind of the guy, right, for that church or you're one of the pastors in that church or you're in a leadership role. So you have some influence, which I I mean, ego wise, like, it's probably pretty cool to be, the leader of faith for some people, whatever. I mean, if that's your thing, cool. But then you have people like that that had a big following on Instagram, and they're like, well, this is like an easy way to get a following and to have some sort of maybe maybe feature ego. I don't know. It's kinda weird.

Dylan Koch: [5:49] Or stay in in relevance.

Dan Austin: [5:50] Yeah. Or they're just trying to make up for some really bad shit they did, and they know it's coming down the pike. And so they're at least they can lean on I'm religious. I'm a good person. They're liars. You know? Like, they're that's not true. I never did any of that illegal stuff.

Dylan Koch: [6:02] Which is ironic because even the most, like, successful people I know who are worth lots of money, I don't even learn that they're religious until it's like the fifth, like tenth time that I met them.

Dan Austin: [6:11] Right.

Dylan Koch: [6:12] Right? Like, it just comes up in conversation. It's not something that they lead with off the bat.

Mike DeHaan: [6:16] Yeah. What do they do to you

Dan Austin: [6:17] that makes you know they're religious?

Dylan Koch: [6:19] I would just come up in conversation. Like, if you're going to know someone better and like, they're like, faith is important to me. But like and then they just go back to talking how they bought a 100 unit building. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [6:28] Like Yeah. Well, I mean, total like a good example of that is like Craig Kirillop that we know. He's on the show. That's a very big part of who he is as a person. He does show in social media, but he also is like doing so much outside of that, that that isn't the first thing that you are slapped in the face with if you come across as stuff.

Dan Austin: [6:45] To me that, like in his context, it'd be similar to him posting him doing like mountain biking cool things like downhill Absolutely. On a mountain And then he's also like, by the way, buy my book on real estate. It's like, there's it's okay. Like, it's just like, yeah. Some of these people that are it's getting kind of crazy. We did need to highlight it though, because it's getting out

Mike DeHaan: [7:02] of hand. Yeah. And I I think the reason that we're highlighting too is this is because of the prevalence of people that so obviously are removed from that in their day to day life. And over the last ten years, they've been around. They have never once done anything with this kind of stuff. Like any kind of, like, religious post or anything else. And all of a sudden, it is everything that they post and they produce is around this. Like, what is going on?

Dan Austin: [7:23] Yeah. It's getting kinda weird. Is God

Mike DeHaan: [7:25] the new NFT of 2026? Maybe he is.

Dan Austin: [7:27] I think so. It's a new fad. I 100%, like, believe it's to increase sales volume for those guys. That's what they're doing. Of they're also so desperate right now because those dudes, like, the amount of money they also spend on their production and all the stuff that they're doing, we know what it's like to spend money on that. Not at that level, but like, they're running a lot of money to just have this like ego platform. But also what businesses are they doing again? Remind me, like, I don't I have no idea. So it's like,

Dylan Koch: [7:56] that coaching? Isn't that the overall umbrella for everybody?

Mike DeHaan: [7:59] It is. That's the common denominator for sure, Dylan. Is it some kind of personal relationship coaching style business? You don't see a ton of it with like you don't see the Alex Cremozzi posting about religion. When that happens, then you know shit's getting real bad.

Dylan Koch: [8:12] Probably. Yeah. We're in a depression if that happens.

Mike DeHaan: [8:16] Yeah. Totally. But who knows? Maybe he'll maybe he'll have his kid, and he'll get super religious all of a sudden. Seems very unlikely,

Dan Austin: [8:22] but he might. Isn't he Persian? So, I mean, that's a big part of their culture, religion.

Mike DeHaan: [8:27] He might. Yeah. I think his dad's Iranian. I don't think he's ever he has really any connection to that. But

Dan Austin: [8:31] Oh, he wasn't born there?

Mike DeHaan: [8:32] No. I'm sure he's he's from the he's from Baltimore or somewhere. Oh, a

Dan Austin: [8:36] tough area.

Mike DeHaan: [8:37] Yeah. But, anyways, all around, guys. Well, I am back with a proper podcast setup, so glad for that. Dylan, welcome back. Had a good little trip with the with the fam. Where'd go with the the Catskills or somewhere out there on the East Coast?

Dylan Koch: [8:50] Hilton Head. Hilton Head, South Carolina.

Mike DeHaan: [8:52] Hilton Head? That's is that like the Catskills Bay in Ohio?

Dan Austin: [8:55] Just so you know, Mike, that's probably like a badass place we don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [8:58] Dude, there's a ton of badass places over there that I don't know about. I mean You know? It's just like nobody over there has heard about Sandpoint before, which is pretty cool.

Dylan Koch: [9:04] Yeah. No idea what that is. So

Mike DeHaan: [9:06] I'm gonna argue our stuff's better, but whatever. West

Dan Austin: [9:08] Pacific PNW is awesome.

Dylan Koch: [9:10] Every time I got West, I've loved it. Like, I've been to Northern Idaho. Been to, like, Coeur D'Alene. Like, it's all been awesome

Mike DeHaan: [9:15] every time I got there. Like, do you

Dylan Koch: [9:17] count Colorado, like Denver being out west?

Mike DeHaan: [9:19] I would. I would. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [9:20] Yeah. Technically. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [9:21] Breckenridge. We we went out yeah. Like, all of those.

Mike DeHaan: [9:23] Yeah. Especially like in the mountains. I mean, Eastern Colorado is a whole lot of nothing.

Dan Austin: [9:27] Once you hit Rocky Mountains and stuff like that, I feel like you're

Mike DeHaan: [9:30] like, yeah.

Dan Austin: [9:30] That's solid west. Like because that's all kind of the same at that point.

Mike DeHaan: [9:33] Yeah. How long were on vacation for Dylan?

Dylan Koch: [9:35] Technically, was like Thursday to Sunday. The following Sunday. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:40] Following. So it was like ten days. Oh, nice. Yeah. Was your business able to keep going while you were away?

Dylan Koch: [9:44] Yes and no. I'm still needed, and I recognize that. And we closed three deals the week I was on vacation. But the only time I really worked besides, like, few text messages here and there was, like, we'd still have an, like, a fifteen, twenty minute call in the morning with my acquisition guy. And then, honestly, when my daughter still takes a nap, right, and so she naps, like, in between an hour, an hour and a half on a daily basis, I would sit back in the room and let my wife go do her own thing, and then I would just work for the, like, hour, hour and a half. And, like, that was it. That was enough.

Mike DeHaan: [10:12] Nice. So that feels pretty good, though. You paid for your vacation while you're on vacation?

Dylan Koch: [10:16] More than paid for the vacation.

Mike DeHaan: [10:17] Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Little brag there. Little humble brag. That means your your vacation was was too skinny. It was too skinny. Skinny.

Dan Austin: [10:23] Was too skinny. It

Mike DeHaan: [10:24] boosted Yeah. You a little

Dylan Koch: [10:25] Now we gotta get the accounts back up, man. I I remember I got side checked for a while.

Mike DeHaan: [10:29] Every dollar you make on vacation needs to go towards that vacation. Yeah. If it's not possible, then you gotta find the nearest casino and just

Dan Austin: [10:35] make Put you're coming it on Instagram though. So you gotta tell people all the cool shit you're doing and be on a beach and all that stuff.

Dylan Koch: [10:41] I think I only posted like once or twice.

Mike DeHaan: [10:43] Only if it's for he though. Remember, Dylan.

Dylan Koch: [10:45] Yeah. Dylan did not.

Mike DeHaan: [10:46] The the the private yacht excursion was for him.

Dan Austin: [10:49] I'm gonna get Dylan a shirt because I

Dylan Koch: [10:50] We did do a private boat thing. Not a yacht,

Dan Austin: [10:52] but it

Mike DeHaan: [10:52] was cool.

Dan Austin: [10:53] Oh, really?

Dylan Koch: [10:53] The our, like, first mate, not to get too sidetracked, was like, oh, this guy just flew in and he got, like, a $20,000,000 yacht. And he said that to ex like, if you buy something like that with, like, a crew and stuff, expect to spend anywhere from 10 to 20% of the cost per year.

Mike DeHaan: [11:08] Really?

Dylan Koch: [11:08] So it's a $20,000,000 yacht. You can spend 2 to 4,000,000 just in your, like, upkeep maintenance and to own the damn thing.

Dan Austin: [11:14] I believe it.

Dylan Koch: [11:15] That's interesting.

Dan Austin: [11:15] Boats are hard to maintain. Yeah. It's a lot of especially an ocean boat.

Dylan Koch: [11:19] Yeah. But when you're in a fluent area like that

Mike DeHaan: [11:21] Like how many crew is on something like that? It's like six.

Dylan Koch: [11:24] I think I asked that question.

Dan Austin: [11:24] Six. Six.

Mike DeHaan: [11:25] What are those people making?

Dylan Koch: [11:26] So I guess there's an engineer that makes like up to 6 figures, and there's some other like other people like 50 to 75,000.

Dan Austin: [11:32] But like they're on making 6 figures. Then fuel the fuel cost is probably immense. And then like you gotta scrape the barnacles off the bottom.

Mike DeHaan: [11:40] Yeah. So, like, let's say that you're, like, a a rich dude, just an average dude, you know, super rich dude that has a $20,000,000 yacht. So you're not like, you know, like a super mega yacht, Mark Zuckerberg yacht, but it's like, it's a good boat. And so you have to pay this $2,000,000 a year for stuff. What does the crew do when you're not using it? Do they like go and work another boat? Do you just pay them full time for your boat?

Dylan Koch: [11:59] I I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [12:01] Is it like subcontracted? Like, how does that work?

Dylan Koch: [12:03] It sounds like it's salaried, but I I didn't ask that specific question.

Mike DeHaan: [12:06] Can they go and be salaried with like multiple boats?

Dylan Koch: [12:08] You would think so. I mean, you can't be in two places at one time, so I guess it depends on the routes that these boats are going.

Mike DeHaan: [12:13] But, like, let's say they're in Monaco where there's 50 of these fucking assholes that have the same boat. Can, like, the people just go and work all the boats and collect salaries from all of them, they just basically have to be available for the one week that their person's there?

Dylan Koch: [12:25] I'm sure this has been tried. Like, I don't know a private person.

Dan Austin: [12:28] I feel like this is a this is

Mike DeHaan: [12:29] a life hack right here if we can figure it out.

Dan Austin: [12:31] Well, you gotta be ready at a moment's notice. Yeah. So just Chatzipati says for a $20,000,000 motor yacht, that's a distinction. I would budget 2 to 3,000,000 per year in cash operating costs. It's roughly $1.65 to $2.50 every month. Yeah. And this says basically the rule of thumb is 10 to 15% of the yacht's value annually.

Mike DeHaan: [12:50] I wanna know like how much you're using it though. Because like if you use it for

Dan Austin: [12:53] like two That's probably a different cost. That's yeah, that's probably built in. Because you, it's like an airplane, You have fixed costs and variable costs. Like, so the variable or anytime you use it, it's gonna cost as much per hour. So like a $20,000,000 yacht, it might be like $5,000 an hour just in, you know, fuel and operating cost. I don't

Mike DeHaan: [13:08] have no idea. But So, like, that boat that you were on, Dylan, is that like an individual that owns that or, like, a company? Or does, like, someone own that boat and they give it to the company to, like, lease it out for them while they're not using it?

Dylan Koch: [13:18] So I wasn't on this boat, but the name of the boat was something guilty. So he thought it was like a lawyer or like a lawyer's firm.

Mike DeHaan: [13:27] Okay.

Dylan Koch: [13:27] But, no, it just sounds like it was a private individual that owned it. And that was kind of my whole point is like even like, we do okay for ourselves here in like the Midwest. Right? You go to Hilton Head Island where you have people who have these kind of boats. The boat on the water is $1,520,000,000, and the HOAs are like $30 a month.

Mike DeHaan: [13:46] Damn.

Dylan Koch: [13:47] I'm just like, Oh my God. Like, I don't know. There's levels to this.

Mike DeHaan: [13:49] That's that East Coast, like old money.

Dan Austin: [13:51] Is this a South Carolina, Hilton Head?

Dylan Koch: [13:54] Yeah. It's almost in Georgia. So like the southern tip of South Carolina.

Mike DeHaan: [13:57] Got that good old racism money down there. Yeah. It's like that legacy money from a long time. Plantations. All their houses have, like, pillars and shit. Oh, yeah. They do. Yep. They have pillars.

Dylan Koch: [14:07] Mhmm. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [14:08] Yep. White sand beaches.

Mike DeHaan: [14:10] Talk about what grandpa did, but this place

Dan Austin: [14:13] is beautiful. Like, this is so freaking they have a bath like a hound. There's a hound. Like, I'm looking at, like, the Google photos of Hilton Head, and there's a house with pillars. There's white sand beaches, and there's a hound. A doghound for chasing down people probably. Golly, Dylan. I know you love this. Holy cow. What a oh, yeah. There's some tugboats out there. Beautiful grass.

Dylan Koch: [14:36] Dude, it was awesome. Like, it was great. And like, it was very affluent, but like-

Mike DeHaan: [14:40] Just a

Dylan Koch: [14:40] rich white kid from my in perspective.

Mike DeHaan: [14:42] Great thing about that part of the country, guys, they do all of it for him.

Dylan Koch: [14:47] All of There are probably a big, like, Baptist following around there. Right?

Dan Austin: [14:51] Oh, for sure, dude. Wow. Good for you doing three deals on vacation, man.

Dylan Koch: [14:55] Yeah. And, dude, and one of them was a buyer I've never worked with before and I will never work with again because they found out how much money I was making, they're like, we wanna renegotiate. It's like, no. Like, this is like, what I make shouldn't matter if you agreed to this price. Nothing like changed in this equation.

Mike DeHaan: [15:11] Did you tell them like, okay, cool.

Dan Austin: [15:12] I'm gonna sell to other guys. And then No.

Dylan Koch: [15:15] I did say I'm not like other wholesalers where I can close on this tomorrow, and then I'll relist it for $30 higher than what you're buying it for. And that seemed to do the trick.

Mike DeHaan: [15:22] They're like, oh, okay. Yeah. There's been a lot of nonsense like that. You're like, bro, I'm

Dan Austin: [15:26] in Hilton Head Island. I'm not like other wholesalers.

Dylan Koch: [15:29] No. But I

Mike DeHaan: [15:30] should could afford to come here, bro. I'm on a yacht.

Dan Austin: [15:33] I'm looking at $20,000,000 yachts for my hotel room.

Mike DeHaan: [15:36] Looking at jets. We gotta We're looking at jets.

Dylan Koch: [15:38] Yeah. That's what was gonna say. I was just gonna say that.

Mike DeHaan: [15:40] Bring that back.

Dan Austin: [15:41] We do.

Dylan Koch: [15:42] That was a shirt, wasn't it?

Mike DeHaan: [15:43] That was. That's an OG I

Dan Austin: [15:45] have a couple of shirt ideas. We need to get collecting keys. Is the collecting keys store still open? Can we drop ship from there?

Mike DeHaan: [15:50] No, it's not. But honestly, with how all the AI stuff is now, I could probably build a better one relatively quickly. It would just be figuring out

Dan Austin: [15:57] how to fulfill it. I want a shirt that just says in white letters, Dylan. I just have a black shirt, and it just says Dylan.

Dylan Koch: [16:05] At least send me a copy. Then I could be like Andy Elliott and wear it around.

Dan Austin: [16:08] Yes. Exactly. Words at the gym. But then on the back, we'll put, like, a cool boat, and we'll put I'm looking at yachts. That

Mike DeHaan: [16:16] would actually be good if we can find like all the, the stuff that Dylan has said that we incriminate him about, you know, quotes about like Bitcoin. Oh, yeah, dude.

Dylan Koch: [16:24] Oh, speaking of which, it's up. My bet with Jay Scott's looking good. Yeah, buddy.

Mike DeHaan: [16:28] I know. I've been saying, I just when we get up to 75, I'm going to sell it again and put it into a real investment because I'm going waste my fucking time. And

Dylan Koch: [16:35] I can't wait for like a couple years from now. And it's like, I don't know, $2.50 and be like, oh man, look, you could have held it, Mike, and had x amount in gains. And you'll be like, oh, I sold it and I put it into my business and we made x amount more money. I hear you already.

Mike DeHaan: [16:49] Dude, that's exactly what's gonna happen.

Dan Austin: [16:51] This so I'm on I'm on I'm on river right now looking at the price, I see it has this, it says smash buy 100. Like, you can just I'm just guessing that's like a buy a $100 of Bitcoin. You just smash buy it. That's how you

Mike DeHaan: [17:03] do it in

Dan Austin: [17:03] Smash a good Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [17:04] See that bit? So now you know they're getting desperate. They're needing more people to buy it to prop up that fake value. You know? They're just kinda making it easier and easier. Can I buy Bitcoin with Klarna when they start doing that?

Dylan Koch: [17:13] You you probably can.

Dan Austin: [17:14] The thing I don't understand okay. So we're all Bitcoin owners, some more than others. The thing I just can't get over is like that Dylan has to like take this like hard drive and put it in three different spots just in case something bad happens. But then if you put it in a certain app, it might just disappear. Like how is that like an investment?

Dylan Koch: [17:35] So it wasn't an app, but it was like the hardware wallet itself that was and Exactly. The hardware wallet that was effective was a rather small percentage of, you know, Bitcoin holders.

Dan Austin: [17:45] But the fact that it's not regulated that like people can't even buy that, you shouldn't even be able to buy that anymore.

Mike DeHaan: [17:50] Well, the thing that's so weird about that is because it's a that's cold storage, right? So

Dylan Koch: [17:54] it's disconnected.

Mike DeHaan: [17:55] And they were still able to access it. So that's like if someone like somehow was able to siphon money out of like a safe from like across the world. Like, like you have like a safe of cash, and they somehow like, teleport So it

Dylan Koch: [18:09] the default yeah. Was on is interesting. Because the default was on the manufacturer of of said thing, and it was the RNG function.

Mike DeHaan: [18:18] They forgot to make their save teleportation proof.

Dylan Koch: [18:21] Yeah. Well, it's the RNG function, which stands for random number generator. And I guess you need a certain amount of entropy when you when you make these things. Right? So that way they are actually encrypted and can't be siphoned for your to use your words. This has been, like, undiscovered since, like, 2021. But then someone used a Chinese AI model. It's like I think it's called, like, Kimi Moonshot or something like that. It's weird. Look it up. So, like, the point being is they were able to identify this with a open source Chinese AMI and not any of, like, the ChatGBTs, the Clods, or any of the American stuff because of, like, the restrictions that their parent companies put on them. And so the theory in, like, the Bitcoin is, okay. This happened here. But, like, what's to say this isn't gonna happen with these legacy softwares that were built in the seventies, eighties that people just been using for forever.

Mike DeHaan: [19:09] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [19:10] Yeah. And so there's gonna be a probably a lot of software exploits with people who have this both by bad actors and hopefully by, you know, good actors to play defense. But it's interesting where that can go forward because of this.

Mike DeHaan: [19:21] That sort of stuff, it's so crazy how AI is starting like, it's affecting Internet security in so many different ways with various things. Like, not only with, you know, the actual password safety and and, like, the encryption, all that kind of stuff, but, like, having your identity stolen. And there's already all these concerns with I I've seen this recently since I have a son, people being really conscious about posting their kids and stuff on the Internet because they don't want AI to basically, like, steal their kid's identity.

Dylan Koch: [19:49] Or even like predators doing, like, reverse image searches to find your locations, like, stuff. All, like, all that

Mike DeHaan: [19:53] stuff

Dylan Koch: [19:54] is Yeah. Out And going back to the the Bitcoin thing to to Dan's point was, let's say you had like this money and you're safe at home, like that either got burned or someone came in or they knew you had gold bars and they stole your safe. It's the same thing except they happened over the internet. And it was just like a lot more people got it for me.

Dan Austin: [20:11] It's the same thing except for it's not the fucking same thing. If someone comes into my house to steal my gold bars, I'm gonna tackle them and arrest them.

Dylan Koch: [20:17] Assuming you're not home. But yeah. How many safecrackers

Dan Austin: [20:21] do you know, dude?

Dylan Koch: [20:22] I don't know any.

Dan Austin: [20:23] None. Because they're not common. But you know what? There's probably a lot of people that have internet access that want to steal your Bitcoin.

Dylan Koch: [20:29] Well, I mean, took five years for someone to identify it. So, I mean, you'd think it would happen before then. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [20:35] Yeah. You know, and people always talk about, like, one of the the big arguments against immigration is theft. Immigrants don't even have to be here anymore, man. Yeah. Did you know that the immigrant thieves can just work from home?

Dan Austin: [20:47] They're stealing your jobs from home. They just have a

Mike DeHaan: [20:50] remote work policy for the immigrant thieving shit, dude. That's

Dylan Koch: [20:54] I know someone in this thing that lost over 20 Bitcoin. And at today's price is over $1,400,000. That

Dan Austin: [21:01] sucks. We should have sold that one as a 120,000.

Dylan Koch: [21:03] Should have. Should have, have, would have.

Dan Austin: [21:05] That sucks.

Mike DeHaan: [21:05] But I

Dylan Koch: [21:06] feel bad. To most people, though, I don't recommend they go down this path of quote unquote self sovereignty and storing it your own because it is complex. Like, you will probably fuck it up. So keep it on Coinbase, keep it on River. Like, it's just like keeping it on TD Ameritrade or Schwab or whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [21:20] Will they back

Dan Austin: [21:20] it up if it gets robbed by a Chinese Kimi model?

Dylan Koch: [21:24] I mean, I'm sure it's just like FDIC insurance. Right? It's up to a certain limit.

Mike DeHaan: [21:27] So you need to get like a

Dan Austin: [21:28] 2 Bitcoins or 3 Bitcoins at every single bank, like have like 20 banks that you store.

Dylan Koch: [21:33] So because it's such an emerging thing, there actually is Bitcoin insurance policies being formed by the Lloyds London, where like you can basically pay a $100 a month and they'll insure your Bitcoin up to its like its dollar value.

Mike DeHaan: [21:44] And at the end of the day, the insurance companies always win. Yeah. I mean You know? Yeah. Exactly. But a lot of stuff like that is going to be a big problem. I mean, we're starting to see that with our business a decent amount is it's very feasible for people to modify documents and different things with their loans through AI. And it's so simple to do. You know? Whereas like previously Like forging bank statements

Dylan Koch: [22:06] or stuff like that? Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:07] Forging bank statements, forging leases, all that kind of stuff. Whereas previously, if you're gonna do that, at kind of had to be savvy with Photoshop. But now, like, any fucking neckbeard can go on a chat GPT and create a fake whatever they want.

Dylan Koch: [22:18] There was some guy here that was falsifying PSAs with sellers. What he would do is he would use a VPN to, like, change the his IP location so it didn't look like the same one or, like, the digital signatures. Oh my gosh. Like, stuff like that is, like, relatively simple to do if you're a piece of shit.

Mike DeHaan: [22:35] Yeah. We had this guy. We just rejected his loan yesterday. He's a fucking idiot. Because basically what he did was he was trying to refinance his property. It was an Airbnb. We told him we can do Airbnbs, but he just didn't wanna hear that, I guess. And so he said, no. It's a long term rental. So he had these, like, really weird leases that made no sense that were to an LLC that he owned. And we're like, well, maybe we can figure something out there. But then he didn't even take the freaking Airbnb off of Airbnb. It was still listed. And so the underwriter with our investor just went and, like, booked a stay at this property and was like, yeah. It's still an Airbnb, so we can't do this loan anymore. And then this dumbass went and made a fucking Facebook video Golly. Talking about So crazy. He's like, I'm talking today about how to get loans for Airbnb's. First off, just know the only way to do it is you're gonna have to lie. Like, that's literally what he said. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [23:30] Then he tells them the method of lying, which is not even an easy like, you can't even do like, that's the worst method of doing it. Non's ArmLink corporate LLC. Like like, people can't just simply look up your LLC name, you dummy.

Mike DeHaan: [23:41] I know. He's like, has, you know, he gets of his followers are fake, which is funny too. But he's also posting these and people that are gonna see that and go, oh, that's a really good idea. Because I don't know either.

Dan Austin: [23:50] I better go start an LLC and do it. Like, people are like, I don't

Mike DeHaan: [23:53] Yeah. Know, and the thing is when we told them we're rejecting it and we told them why, we're like, hey, you should probably take out that video just so you know. He's like, I'm absolutely not doing that. Oh my god. You think you're smart and everybody did. Unfortunately, those of us with the money, we set the rules and you're wrong.

Dylan Koch: [24:06] Do your back end lenders care about like newly formed LLCs? Like, not without seeing it? No. Okay. Everyone always hears, oh, you need two years for, like, you know, to be lendable.

Mike DeHaan: [24:16] But I think that's that's worth with a conventional bank on the private side doesn't matter.

Dan Austin: [24:20] Well, yeah. Because they're gonna do a background check on the the owner. Right? So it's like, who owns the L? Because you want a warm body guarantee. Right? So, like, everybody and I was I fell to this too before. It's a cold. I know. Right? Can't be dead, dude. We're not stealing boats around here, dude. No. You know, like when we all get got into the industry and people are like nonrecourse debt, man. That's the only thing. I I only do nonrecourse. There's no such thing as nonrecourse. That does not There's not. Especially on the residential side.

Mike DeHaan: [24:46] Not unlike the residential level. But even when you

Dan Austin: [24:48] talk to people with that non that true non recourse debt, they're like, yeah, it's not really non recourse. Like, you're still putting your ass on the line. So it's like, it just doesn't really exist. You know what I mean? Like so it's just kind of silly that that's a that's a thing. But I think people kinda still think that way. They're like, well, I'm putting it in an LLC and then they put it in another LLC and then they layer that underneath the trust. They're doing all these things. And part of it can be for anonymity or asset protection, but some of it's

Dylan Koch: [25:13] just Yeah.

Dan Austin: [25:13] They're just doing dumb stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [25:15] Well, what's your outline in there? It is the now outcome of kinda like the content sphere, right, that has built out over the last ten to fifteen years that is pretty problematic. Because basically, there are people that created podcasts, books, YouTube videos, whatever, that win the algorithm every day because they've been around for so long and they have so many views, and they're all SEO written out correctly. Right? But people will go and see those as like a rookie, and they won't understand that the video they're watching from 2015 is no longer really applicable to today. Right? It's completely changed. And that's only gonna continue to get worse as more and more content is produced, and you have more people like this fucking guy that are saying things that are 100% false, you know, and it's gonna be carried out to more and more people. Somebody else a year from now sees that video and goes, oh, that's a really good idea. You know? And then they tell their friends. And then you have all the dummies that are making content off of each other's false content. Right? You know, people like Pace Morby are the biggest issues with this because you she's created all this BS. That's completely not true.

Mike DeHaan: [26:16] And you still have people talking about like, just get sub two insurance, bro. Was never a real thing three years ago. And yet there's people that still pretend like it is. Still

Dan Austin: [26:25] say it.

Mike DeHaan: [26:26] Yeah. Get some sub two insurance. There's so many different versions of that. It's just like a lot of the people who get in, they're like, I'm gonna build a BRRRR portfolio of single family homes. Like, good luck, man. You are twelve years too late. Should've started doing that a long

Dylan Koch: [26:39] time ago. Yeah. That's tough. Oh, I'm looking for a triple net lease, non recourse debt. I can want it to be a Starbucks, and I want it to be an 8% cap rate.

Mike DeHaan: [26:49] Solid ish. Cool. Yeah. Me too, man. So does everyone else.

Dylan Koch: [26:53] Yeah. And I wanna buy it for $5,000.

Dan Austin: [26:55] Yeah. Exactly.

Dylan Koch: [26:56] It's just like so the the problem with a lot of this stuff is they set unrealistic expectations. And then so these people would go dive down this rabbit hole, they find out it's a lot harder or not what they say, and then they give up. Whereas if you would have told them, like, the truth in the beginning, they have a higher likelihood at least sticking with it.

Mike DeHaan: [27:11] And that's why you have all the gurus that have been around for so long that made their money teaching that, and they're teaching next to I think that's why they're they talk about being at the show. Now they're talking about gods. They're like, what's left? Yeah. What's left?

Dan Austin: [27:22] Well, let's drifting with god, man. That's what's left.

Mike DeHaan: [27:24] Yeah. So I don't know, man. It's it's such a weird time. Anyways, so what's coming up next for you, Dylan? You, got the rest of the summer. Are you in, like, high time right now in August, or is it kinda slow there everywhere else?

Dylan Koch: [27:35] Honestly, it's been weird. August would be a really good month for us. And then September is shaping up to be pretty good in the sense that we bought deals and we actually like bought them, bought them. So now they'll probably get sold in September.

Mike DeHaan: [27:47] It seems like August is kind of a crapshoot for most places.

Dylan Koch: [27:51] Well, on the listing side, it has been. Like, it's very, very slow. Kids going back to school, vacations, like, this seasonality, it's been slower for sure. But the wholesale stuff has been actually pretty good. And I I think that's more attributed maybe, you know, to the market. But like, as we've talked about the first half of the year, I wasn't solely focused on that. So the numbers were a lot down. And we're finally, I think after all these closings through September are gonna be to the point where, okay, the rental portfolio stabilized. There's enough money in the accounts where I feel comfortable. And honestly, by the end of the year, after talking with my account, I'm gonna try to buy, like, at least 20 like, hopefully, like a 20 unit building or more. And I was actually spending all of this morning going through like county websites to try to figure out like how do I direct mail them because I don't trust PropStream's like apartment list.

Mike DeHaan: [28:38] And so trying to buy a 20 unit for like depreciation?

Dylan Koch: [28:41] Mostly. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I still wanted to have some value add and, you know, it makes sense on paper. But, yeah, depreciation mostly.

Dan Austin: [28:47] Have you looked at other depreciation strategies or tax strategies like that?

Dylan Koch: [28:53] You'll love this apparently. And I have to dig into this, so please don't take this as gospel. But if you buy Bitcoin mining equipment, it's in the same rule class as a 100 like, depreciation as real estate, or you could take a 100% depreciation. Now I wouldn't run them because I don't know how, but there are hosting services out there. But again, I have no idea if it's actually worth it.

Dan Austin: [29:11] You could basically invest in them.

Dylan Koch: [29:12] Yeah. Like, they would run the machines for you. They take a percentage, etcetera, etcetera. But that is very top level what I know.

Mike DeHaan: [29:19] Why? Have you guys? Have you looking into other stuff?

Dan Austin: [29:22] No. I wish I could.

Mike DeHaan: [29:23] Yeah. Probably need to. Well, I don't know. Don't pay any tax for rest of the year. But also too, since my house burned down, I actually apparently get a pretty decent tax break from that. Or or we were talking to my CPA. She's like, yeah. There's all kinda like loss stuff you can do for your taxes. She's like, don't worry about that right now. Like, figure your shit out. Yeah. That's cool. We should chat.

Dylan Koch: [29:41] Dude, there's some of my properties. I shouldn't say this on air, but, like, if they were to get burned up, as long as the tenants are okay, I'd get a fat check with, like, like, the replacement cost versus what it's worth. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [29:51] I mean, I think every landlord has those properties where you sit there and you look at the big picture, like, you know, probably the best thing would be if this burned down. I got a castle.

Dan Austin: [29:59] If if a tree fell on it and crushed the whole thing to the smithereens, like that

Mike DeHaan: [30:03] would be As long as nobody dies, totally. Yeah. It's like, that would just be the easiest solution here. I don't know. It's a different It's a different ballgame when it's, your own house, obviously. Because also like if there's tenants in there, I mean, you don't have to cover any tenants, that's what renters insurance is for. Yeah. You know? And so the complexities of it are significantly reduced because it's just the structure. And because it's an investment, if you had appropriate insurance, you probably could cash out like a decent chunk of your equity rather than rebuilding and just walk away. Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [30:30] And then you still you get like, I know, like, some people that lost their house, what they're doing is they're going to just buying and they're not gonna rebuild. So they get a check. You've get all your stuff that's inside, which is a separate check. And as you're finding out, Mike, you get, like, landscaping check, you get rental recovery check. But you get a check for your actual replacement cost of building the structure. Then they take that, they send it to the bank. The bank takes their chunk out of it, then they have what's left over, which is fundamentally their equity, which is likely more equity than you actually have in the current market, right, with replacement costs being higher. And then, you know, your other checks trickle in, so people are just going and buying a new house. Right? So I know some people that are paying cash because they have their house paid off. Right? So they're just paying cash, but then they have a vacant lot that they can sell. Mhmm. So once it comes in and you have a very good chunk of money in some of these neighborhoods, right? In your neighborhood, especially, you know? So yeah. So that's what people are doing. And so you have a lot. Once you're you have a rental lot, could sell to some investor.

Dylan Koch: [31:24] It is kinda like, I guess I thought when that first happened, someone was like, you'd be forced to rebuild your house. But no, you can just take the check and walk away and then sell the house for what it's worth. I've seen wholesale deals like that too.

Dan Austin: [31:34] Yeah. We've bought in, like, fire damaged houses and stuff like that.

Dylan Koch: [31:37] Yeah. And you're and

Mike DeHaan: [31:37] you're potentially leaving money on the table if you take cash settlement. Right? Like, they're gonna give you less than if you went through the full process. I don't know what percentage less, but also too, there's, like, insurance policy that have rebuild value versus there's also insurance policies that will be the market value of the house that you can get. Or, like, for me, I had market value plus 25%. And so what I can potentially claim is significantly more than the house is worth. You're have to justify that for various things, but and that's outside of, like, the personal belongings. But in a situation, Dylan, where you lost, like, all of your belongings and everything inside the house, they'll write you a check for what all that was worth, but you don't have to buy the same things. They'll just like give you And like, and that can be a lot. Right. Right? So like for me on my policy, like the personal belongings, like $800.

Dylan Koch: [32:22] Yeah. Then imagine like, okay, you don't need to rebuy all those things. Or you go like, let's say your kid just turned 18 years old, and like, you're going to be downsizing. Well, now you have all this it's an extra retirement fund.

Mike DeHaan: [32:33] Yeah. Totally.

Dylan Koch: [32:34] It's just weird how all these things work.

Mike DeHaan: [32:35] Yeah. So I dunno. That's also why they, you know, they get so serious about investigating fraud and everything else, and it is a freaking headache. But I mean, I would say being on the other side of this, I would never wish this on somebody. It's a fucking pain in the ass. And it's extremely traumatic, and it's not fun by any means. But if you have your stuff set up right, there actually is like a decent exit for you.

Dylan Koch: [32:56] It's surprising to me how many investors like if they have a private loan, like not through like what you guys are doing or government loan, just like don't have insurance on the house.

Mike DeHaan: [33:05] It's so crazy. Like, I can understand that a little bit because until you we talked about this last week. Until you use insurance, it does feel like a waste of money. Yeah. Right? But you never know when you're going to need it. And kind of the old sort of thing with insurance is that if you do need to make a claim, they're gonna make it impossible for you to get the money, which can be very, very true. Dan and I have experienced this with our property that has flooded several times to make it extremely difficult do an investigation. There's like dumb stuff where it's like, oh, well, the water insurance policy in your house that only covers water from inside the house. So the fact that our house flooded from water that was outside the house, it wasn't covered. I'm like, that's just idiotic. You know? But depending on the situation that unfolds, you can definitely do better. I don't know. I would say that like if you are somebody that needs to squeeze every single dollar out of your your cash flow. Right? Because that's what you live off of because you bought a house with a $9,800 a month mortgage that you can't actually afford. Yeah. Like, if you need every dollar to be able to live your lifestyle, it can definitely feel shitty to have to have insurance on some of these things. But, like, if you're someone that is consistently making so much money that the cash is kinda whatever, it kinda makes sense to insure your stuff at a decent level just as, you know, a backup plan in case things do go sideways.

Mike DeHaan: [34:23] Right? And if bad stuff does happen. I will tell you now for me personally, I will probably carry more insurance than I need to on anything that I can just because I never expected to have something so catastrophic happen, and it did. Yeah. You know? And you can never predict that. And I was like, oh fuck. Okay. Apparently, I am a statistic now.

Dylan Koch: [34:42] That's awesome. I just tallied up what we pay in insurance on a monthly basis for all of our rentals. So not including our primary one. It's like just under $2,500.

Mike DeHaan: [34:50] For all your rentals? Is Jessica $20,100 dollars? Yeah. For all of them?

Dylan Koch: [34:53] For all

Mike DeHaan: [34:53] of them. What?

Dylan Koch: [34:54] 13 properties.

Mike DeHaan: [34:55] A year?

Dylan Koch: [34:55] Or a month? A month.

Mike DeHaan: [34:56] Well, that's well, if you think about it, say,

Dan Austin: [34:58] yeah, $200 a month, say even like a property for us or something like that, I could see where you could hey. You guys got cheap insurance over there. You must have cheap rebuild costs or something.

Dylan Koch: [35:07] Well, the replacement costs are definitely lower than probably where you guys are at. We don't really have as many natural disasters.

Mike DeHaan: [35:13] When was the last time there was a natural disaster in Cincinnati?

Dylan Koch: [35:16] Yeah. Like, I think it would be a tornado, I think.

Dan Austin: [35:19] There was one in Indiana recently. You guys are kind of close to Indiana.

Dylan Koch: [35:22] Yeah. We we could have them come through, but they're more like a little bit more Northeast. It's flatter terrain. Wow. But, yeah, I'd say tornado is probably the most likely here.

Mike DeHaan: [35:31] I feel like the biggest risk in Cincinnati, like, we in the winter. Yeah. Mean get, like, ice storms and wind

Dylan Koch: [35:38] Yeah. Pipes. Yeah. Frozen pipes has definitely happened.

Mike DeHaan: [35:40] Yeah. Dude, actually, if we are coming up elections, you guys are a swing state. Better prepare for some riots. Terrorism? Yeah. Some terrorism.

Dan Austin: [35:48] I guess anybody that plans to shoot

Dylan Koch: [35:50] You know, terrorism sure is a thing. Right? That like, it's not Absolutely. Made up.

Dan Austin: [35:53] I know. And I usually decline it, which is funny.

Mike DeHaan: [35:56] Well, we don't have to worry about terrorism quite as much where we're at. I don't feel like, nah. We're we're not a working state.

Dylan Koch: [36:00] That's what you yeah. Fingers crossed. I gonna was say property taxes would be another big one. I don't even know if I want to tally that up.

Mike DeHaan: [36:06] But that's the other thing too, is if your house if you definitely do what Dan just said and your house burns and you said with the lot, most places, they will waive your property taxes for a period of time, which is pretty cool too.

Dylan Koch: [36:15] Oh, that reminds me of the people who, like, build a house and didn't know that they'd get reassessed at a higher property value and now they can't afford their house.

Mike DeHaan: [36:21] That was my whole neighborhood back in 2223 when they reassessed all the taxes. And you had all these people that got approved for these loans at 2021 rates with rock bottom taxes. Like, our payment on our house increased $700 a month. It's crazy because all

Dan Austin: [36:37] the people's houses that couldn't afford to burn down in that fire. Weird.

Mike DeHaan: [36:40] Oh, shit. No. A lot of them, they sold back in '23. I remember when we got the new tax assessment, literally on the street over for me, like half the houses went up for sale the next week. It was crazy.

Dylan Koch: [36:49] Yeah. Yep. My property taxes is $5,700 a month for everything.

Mike DeHaan: [36:55] That's a good chunk. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for paying your taxes, Dylan.

Dylan Koch: [36:58] Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do. That way our school system can continue to get less than average scores.

Dan Austin: [37:05] Yeah. But you know what? The kids get free lunches. That's all that matters. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [37:08] Hey. No. You know? And your kids don't have to go to that school, Dylan. You could they can send them wherever you want. Send them to Hilton Head Private Boat University, whatever you

Dylan Koch: [37:17] wanna do. Go be a Marantine. I don't dude, the guy that did our tour, he has to make good money. This is from like an hourly and tip basis. Like, he has to make good money. I know what he made for the two hours he did for us.

Mike DeHaan: [37:28] Dude, all around the world in those like high expensive tourism places, there are people that work there full time that make so much money that you wouldn't believe. You know? Like like like some of the people that are let's say you're like a server in, like, Vale. Right? And what a lot of these dudes will do I I literally met a guy when I was in Maui. This is what he does. He basically is in Maui during the summer. He's a waiter. Super cool guy. Great service. Professional what he does. Guy's probably in his forties. And I was talking to him, and I was like, oh, you know, you're here? He's like, no. This is where I spend my summers. Spend summers in Maui. During the winter, he goes to Vail, Colorado, works in a restaurant during ski season, and he's basically bounced back and forth. He lives in two dope places. I can only imagine the amount of money he makes off of tips because every meal that he serves isn't less than $500. Wow. You know? And he probably has so much freedom on either end of his day. In Maui, he can go surfing during the day. Right? In Vail, he can probably go skiing in the morning. He can do all that kind of stuff. He's living life. You know, I bet you he clears 6 figures plus probably $1.50 a year. Just think about basic math, especially because a lot of those places too, they don't tax tips correctly. So there's making a lot of that money under the table pretty much.

Dan Austin: [38:37] Run to a guy like you too. He's making money. Big wait. Mike's his name. Mike's middle name is Big Dipper.

Mike DeHaan: [38:43] Yeah. Yeah. Well, you I don't buy the most expensive things. What you want is the guys that are buying the thousand dollar bottle bottles of wine at work.

Dylan Koch: [38:50] Yeah. But even when we were in Hilton Head, like, felt like I was I don't know if obligated is the right word to tip like 20%, but the service is always good. So like even those people, like I'm sure they make decent money just being there. They're full on I'm

Dan Austin: [39:05] just in any general, like good service. Like even in Spokane, there's probably some restaurants where servers are making pretty solid money. Not like 150 a year, but maybe. There's some that are making You a $100 a

Mike DeHaan: [39:15] know how I know they make good money, Dan, is because there's several restaurants that I go to where they have had the same people on staff for like five years. Right. They're they're doing good. Yeah. That says a lot. They wouldn't be doing that if they weren't doing well for themselves.

Dan Austin: [39:27] Bro, there's a dude at Casa de Oro that's been there, like, twenty five years.

Mike DeHaan: [39:30] That's lot of He's not making very good money. But Yeah. That's right. Yeah. But I'm talking about some of the places downtown, like the more expensive places. I go there. Like, you've been here since as long as this restaurant's been here, you know, seven, eight years.

Dan Austin: [39:41] You know what's the funny one that the listeners don't care about is your boy down there at Ruins. He just cannot keep his restaurant going.

Mike DeHaan: [39:47] Yeah. He's burned out.

Dan Austin: [39:48] Yeah. Dude, he just like, one day just closed his doors and didn't tell any of his employees. I was like,

Mike DeHaan: [39:54] God dang, that's not nice.

Dan Austin: [39:55] Well, he sold it. I know, but he didn't tell anybody.

Mike DeHaan: [39:58] Private equity deal, You gotta keep the hush-hush. You can't you can't be steering away the the shareholders.

Dylan Koch: [40:02] How are yields in the in the lending? Because everything I've seen says that with those long bond yields going up, it's probably not good for lending in any aspect, not just not just real estate.

Mike DeHaan: [40:12] Seems pretty good for me. It's not bad. Yeah. We're in private lending. We could set our own prices. Yeah. We lend who we want to. Yeah. So the real answer, Dylan, is that on the fix and flip side, our yield spread has definitely crunched a little bit versus what we can sell, like, to borrowers versus what investors will buy from us. But Yep. It's not that crazy. Like, maybe, like, half percent. On the DSCR side, the fixed side, because we set the pricing and coupon anyway, it hasn't changed at all.

Dylan Koch: [40:39] Okay.

Dan Austin: [40:39] Yeah. That is a surprise. The DSCR has kind of been the same for a bit. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [40:43] Yeah. Yeah. For like a long while. If anything, would say it's actually down from like three or four months ago.

Dylan Koch: [40:47] Okay. The thirty year yield went to a high since 2007. And you have the treasury secretary coming out and saying that they're gonna double their repurchase program, which like just means that they're gonna be buying more thirty year bonds than they than they were. And if they're buying their own their own debt, that helps keeps the yields down for the reason they want the lending economy to stay pretty liquid and fluid. Right? So like I said, if it's a car loan, they're not getting a car loan at seven, eight, 9%. Right? Their first position mortgage is for like maybe primary, not in the private market.

Mike DeHaan: [41:22] So Yeah. That's the only way that people can afford the current prices. You know, people are constantly joking like, Who can afford these things? Like, how can prices keep going up? The answer is debt. Different kinds of debt.

Dylan Koch: [41:31] Answer is debt. I'm gonna send you guys a country song that it's called debt, and it's it's funny. It's like a parody, but it's funny.

Mike DeHaan: [41:38] Songs is not AI. Because I don't listen to AI music. I'm not If trying to stuff

Dylan Koch: [41:43] it did, it fooled me.

Mike DeHaan: [41:44] Well, you're from the Midwest, so it happens. Alright, everybody. Praise he. If you wanna go go to grifterdan.com and check out his mastermind course on This is

Dylan Koch: [41:58] probably a website. Grifter. Probably.

Mike DeHaan: [42:03] So alright, everybody. Thanks. Talk to guys next week. See you. This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which, you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram.

Mike DeHaan: [43:06] I am at Mike underscore Invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose to follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.