Pace Morby's investors are about to lose everything

Mike DeHaan: [0:01] Tweet from this Anthropic guy that basically said he retire he left his job at Anthropic and that them and I think specifically said, OpenAI were being irresponsible with how they were developing AI. He was saying it could kill us all within ten years. But then here's here's where it got into, like, guru content clickbaity bullshit. As he said, like, read below. Like, hear more below. Like, was trying to get you to read the rest of his tweet thread.

Dan Austin: [0:28] Well, my guess is he started like a AI safety company when he quit.

Mike DeHaan: [0:32] Oh, that's a good idea. You know

Dan Austin: [0:34] what I mean? Or had something like where he was like, had a super big, like, tried to like short short anthropic or something, which obviously didn't pan out for that guy.

Dylan Koch: [0:42] I just think he's about to get fired. And then he's like, no. I'm resigning

Dan Austin: [0:45] and I'm doing Going down. Well or he got paid a shit ton of money to say that because Anthropic has been very well known of positioning themselves because, like, the idea is is that they're trying to bring regulation in and so that they can monop be the monopoly. A 100%. Like if there's regulation. Right? And so the idea being is like they've been saying like the CEO like, oh, it's so dangerous. AI is gonna kill everybody. And so maybe they pay this guy $5,000,000 to do say that.

Mike DeHaan: [1:09] Maybe. You know, our our I mean, it's new technology that's coming in. Right? Maybe it's like the the whole, I don't know, conspiracy fact. I don't know. Where they say that like Microsoft was it Microsoft for McAfee? Whoever created viruses, so you had to buy any virus software?

Dylan Koch: [1:23] McAfee. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [1:24] Right? And that big Yeah. Was that McAfee that did that? Yeah. I mean, it's like like, to your point, Dan, it could be a whole thing of, you know, are there gonna be AI security companies that are gonna be really banging on that drum? Because now you can get people to believe whatever you want. I mean, remember, there's people out there that think the earth is flat and the birds aren't real. Convincing people that AI is gonna kill all of us.

Dan Austin: [1:43] It's not hard to get dumb people to believe that stuff. It's so easy.

Mike DeHaan: [1:47] And that's why we're all gonna get paid $5,000 here in November.

Dan Austin: [1:52] Love you vote. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [1:53] What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. I am Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin and Dylan Cook. And we are gonna do a little, guru grifter bash today, because we've had

Dan Austin: [2:06] some Guru roundtable today.

Mike DeHaan: [2:09] A roundtable. It's not it's not a bash. I get it's only a I say bash is like the I can't actually use that word because that implies that things are not true or they're kinda, like, over the top. Yeah. It's like a roast. But we're just gonna be talking about the real stuff that our favorite gurus have been doing and getting accused of.

Dan Austin: [2:25] I'm just trying to get tip to tip with these guys. Make sure

Mike DeHaan: [2:27] we sharpen our pencils. Tip. Sure. That's exactly what you mean when you say tip to tip, Dan. It's the old ranger term for sharpening your pencils, I'm sure. You

Dan Austin: [2:39] ever sharpened your pencils with your favorite bros?

Mike DeHaan: [2:43] Not not in a not in a cave in the least. That's for sure.

Dan Austin: [2:46] Oh, man. What do you do on your weekends, Dylan? I heard you were on your parents' yacht this weekend.

Dylan Koch: [2:52] We were out on a boat every Yeah. Labor

Dan Austin: [2:55] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [2:56] No. Not a yacht. I think the boat is 17 feet.

Mike DeHaan: [3:00] Is that the difference in a boat and a yacht?

Dan Austin: [3:02] Well, the that's the skip the little skipper that gets to the yacht. Right?

Dylan Koch: [3:07] The thing that you No. Dude, what's actually, what's funny when you're out there, I was driving the boat.

Mike DeHaan: [3:12] That is

Dan Austin: [3:12] a quite small boat. Is that safe for multiple people? 17 feet is kinda slow.

Dylan Koch: [3:15] I was just gonna say we had too many people on this boat. And then I I stopped too quickly and, like, legit, like, the front of it went into the water a little bit.

Mike DeHaan: [3:23] Oh, yeah.

Dan Austin: [3:23] Oh, it was an open bow? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [3:25] I was like, oh, yeah. Freaking out a little bit.

Dan Austin: [3:27] I was like Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [3:28] But I mean, you'll fine, dude. Those are like the kind of things that like migrants put 55 people on and go from Africa to Yeah. You'll be able

Dan Austin: [3:36] But they're expecting fifty fifty like death rate. Dylan's like, I hope I bring everybody home.

Dylan Koch: [3:41] There's there's a little one of our family members, know she's probably like 10 years old, never been on a boat before. She's like, I'm not getting on a boat again. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [3:49] Yeah. You just ruined you just ruined that person forever.

Mike DeHaan: [3:52] That's what happens, dude. It's little kids, their first exposure to something like that's bad. You just created a trauma. She's gonna be like 27 years old, and her fiance is trying to propose to her on a boat. She's like, what? No. I'm not getting all that thing.

Dylan Koch: [4:04] Yeah. Absolutely.

Dan Austin: [4:07] Percent. No cruise ships for their honeymoon.

Dylan Koch: [4:09] Yeah. How about laugh? That might be true.

Mike DeHaan: [4:11] Yeah. Seriously though. But, we've been following some of these posts around some of the the Pace Morby stuff over the last little bit because there have been more and more I guess I have I have to say accusations because there hasn't been anything official that has come around. And, Pace Mori, if you've been around for a while, he's one of our favorite gurus to hate on, mostly because he's, in my opinion, a crook. I mean, he has had been doing shady stuff for, like, a long period of time. The fact that he's still going honestly blows my mind. One to to date, one of the best YouTube videos that Dan and I ever had as an episode, this is before Dylan was even around, we basically just talked about a very real sort of, like, interaction that we had with Pace where we were questioning him on social media about his stuff, and he was, like, sending me video responses and things. And we got so much traction in that YouTube video, and it was almost all his followers, his, like, loyalists, whatever you wanna call them, saying things about how Dan and I are obviously, like, jealous versions living in our mom's basement and all those other kind of stuff. Which is kind of terrifying for me. That means that that's Probably.

Mike DeHaan: [5:16] But that does not affect my ethics. Okay?

Dan Austin: [5:18] It was true at one point in my life.

Mike DeHaan: [5:19] Oh, for sure. Was I mean, if that that was never true in your life, then I'd I don't know. You got federal

Dylan Koch: [5:24] Well, then Dan's been 12.

Dan Austin: [5:26] Yeah. Okay. So I just want while we're while we're having this discussion in the background, I've got Chatcha PT running onto the highest thinking effort. And I asked it, can you do some research on Pace Morby and let me know on a scale of one to 10 how likely it is that he is a criminal? 10 being he will end up in jail. One, he's a church choir boy.

Mike DeHaan: [5:44] Okay. Let's come back to that after you get it. I I

Dylan Koch: [5:47] wanted prompting. Good prompt, Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [5:50] But I I wanted to read actually this Facebook post, which has since been taken down by this guy, which I think is interesting. Because I'm sure, like a lot of the other stuff that has come out about this, he's been threatened with litigation. So I will not say his name. He was a, person that I was friends with on Facebook, and that this was actually sent to me by, our friend Aaron Beale. He's been on the show a couple times. So it's a little long, but I'll read through it. I don't usually post it like this, but I feel like I have to. My wife and I invested in the sub two fund PACE mortgage real estate investment fund that was pitched as a way to earn passive income through real estate with a 9% preferred return on quarterly distributions. We've been trying to access our account with our money. Here's what happened. First, I can't log in to the fund portal. The phone number on subduefund.com doesn't work. Emails to their support and investing addresses go unanswered. Complete radio silence from fund management. Other investors have been told they can't get their money back. The only option is to find someone willing to buy your shares. Find a Gator lender. Buy your, your shares. It's a good idea. Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [6:53] No one can get a straight answer on when the fund becomes liquid. K one tax docs have been late or not delivered at all for some people. After hitting dead ends, I started digging into the public records. What I found was concerning. Sub two Fund LLC's annual SEC filing shows the company had roughly $745,000 in cash as of 12/31/2025. Their only source of funding is investor money. No outside funding. The fund is entirely dependent on two people, Pace Morby and Josiah Grimes. And for their own filing, there's no key person insurance to be the one steps away. The fund was marked with was marked with quarterly updates and distributions. A lot of investors haven't seen either. Pace Morby's personal page now has a 2.4 out of five on Trustpilot. There are BBB complaints against Sub two in Tempe, Arizona. My Trustpilot review from last month alleged illegal securities practice in the community and claimed significant investor losses. Multiple people have privately told me that leaders are being removed from sub two for asking questions. I'm not posting this to be dramatic. I'm posting because my DMs have been blowing up from other investors saying the exact same thing. Can't log in. Can't get answers. Can't get their money.

Mike DeHaan: [8:04] And when I start asking publicly in the sub two group, even more people come forward before my post gets removed. If you're invested in the sub two fund and dealing with the same issues, reach out to me. I'm documenting everything. And if we can't get answers through normal channels, next steps are formal demand letters, SEC investor complaints, the Arizona attorney general because it's a registered securities offering and investors have legal rights. Everything I've referenced in SEC filings is public record on sec.gov. Look it up yourself. I've got nothing against anyone personally. I just want access to my account, my money back. That shouldn't be this hard. And then when I saw this post, there was, like, 50 some comments with a bunch of people that were chiming in with equal sort of situations. And I think, first off, I'm not surprised to hear something like this going so so sideways. But also to something that I will say is a lot of the people that were in there, they were extremely hesitant to get involved or share details. And this is them saying this because they didn't want to, like, create drama, quote unquote. Guys, if you've had your if feel like your money's been stolen or you've been, like, fraudulently wrong in some way, your job is not to create drama. You should be putting every piece of public whatever information out there that's negative about these people.

Mike DeHaan: [9:19] You should be actively trying to take action against this situation. You know, it's just like if, like, a big company does something wrong and you go and you blast, like, Delta Airlines on Twitter, and they come out and they go, oh, well, now we're gonna correct that. The exact same thing should happen just because he's an individual. Yeah. Right? Like, there is something super, super shitty going on. And so that was that post. And then there was another one that I got sent, and this lady actually commented on the that thread as well. I'm not gonna read the full thing, but very basically, she bought an RV park. It's funny. She didn't actually say pay us or sub two, but she makes very several very obvious sort of, like, point things that that's exactly who she worked for. It was a creative financing deal that her mentor and guru basically agreed to do with her. They were gonna receive 40% equity in exchange for bringing $1,500,000 to closing. K. Sounds pretty sweet. Damn. They get to closing. She sees on the closing HUD a promissory note for $1,500,000 at 12% interest.

Dylan Koch: [10:17] Oh, Jesus.

Mike DeHaan: [10:18] Which was not basically part of the agreement. And, they're basically told, no need to worry. It's private investor money that this individual had raised, and he was going he they were going to be paying the debt themselves while things got up up to par. Lo and behold, that didn't happen. Next thing they know, they are getting basically a demand letter from this private note holder requiring that they pay this money. And then the investor brought this money, has told them that the RV park needs to be able to fund those payments, which they was not able to do. Then the person ultimately disappeared. And she was told things like the private money lender doesn't speak English, doesn't wanna talk to anyone or negotiate. And as she was trying to basically make amends, it was impossible to do so. And, basically, she kept getting more and more demands and foreclosure notices. And, ultimately, she ended up walking away from this thing, giving up all of her equity, all the money that she had put into it. And she doesn't really know what happened with the rest of it. She basically stood like a deed in lieu, walked away, and gave this property up.

Dylan Koch: [11:20] So basically, to recap the RV Park one

Mike DeHaan: [11:23] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [11:24] Pacer, allegedly, that that group brought in their own private money, didn't tell the 40% equity person, and then put her on the hook for 1,500,000 at 12% interest from the money that they raised.

Dan Austin: [11:35] Correct. Fascinating.

Mike DeHaan: [11:36] Jesus. And so Pace, who was the GP or whoever the GP was, would have got that 40% equity. And then there was this $1,500,000 promissory note with another individual fund whatever that was on the hook that had equitable rights to this property because they were a lienholder.

Dylan Koch: [11:53] Yeah. Yes. Jeez.

Mike DeHaan: [11:54] And those are just the two I've heard most recently. There were several I heard a couple weeks ago, along with the whole thing where that, like, homeless lady that she helped died, and he decided to have, like, a whole, like, event around that, which is super fucked. That feels like things are are unwinding at the seams. I'm here for it. Like, I'm just I can't believe it's going on for this long. And what I anticipate happening is my people have sort of made comments that, like, oh, can't wait for him to, like, come unraveled or, like, to see him, like, go down in real time. What will probably happen, if anything, is he will just pop smoke and disappear, and all this stuff will disappear from the Internet, and you will not see him again, you know, if it actually goes sideways. That's what I imagine will probably happen.

Dylan Koch: [12:33] I mean, if some of this stuff is true, I would think I think jail time's in his future. Right?

Dan Austin: [12:38] Like Oh, yeah. For sure. He's such Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [12:41] Yeah. I mean, especially with the SEC stuff. I mean, that's not something that's taken lightly.

Mike DeHaan: [12:46] No. No. They don't screw around. You know? Like, that's that's a major major deal. But yeah. So is that whole thing? I mean who knows a lot of the details or what the scale of it is? Because he's been doing that for so unbelievably long. There must be tens or hundreds of millions of dollars that are tied up in those various ventures. You know? And how much of it is true? How much of it is legit? You know? Some of the stuff that he was doing though as well as he was he had his, like, prime corporate services company that a lot of these people were going through that he had ownership in. So I wouldn't be surprised if things were structured in a way that were very severely in his favor, and people were ignorant to it because they were trusting it.

Dan Austin: [13:22] Yeah. I mean I mean, I'm he's such a bad person. I guarantee he went into with bad intentions.

Mike DeHaan: [13:27] Oh, totally. Of course.

Dan Austin: [13:28] Set himself up for success when bad things got found out. Just seems like him.

Mike DeHaan: [13:33] And the thing to remember about him and the other sort of people, if you just do, like, a little bit of digging, before Subtune all sorts of stuff came around, he had already gotten in legal trouble for stealing payroll from employees with his dad years and years and years ago. That's like the lowest crime you can do, honestly. 100%. Like for a business owner to steal money from your employees like that, which is a very this is a very documented thing.

Dan Austin: [13:58] Just go look

Mike DeHaan: [13:58] it up. You'll find it. Yeah. He got in big trouble for That's like the classic example of somebody shows you who they are, don't make them show you a second time. He's already stole from people that work for him. You think he wouldn't do it from you as like a YouTube watcher or audience member?

Dan Austin: [14:12] He doesn't give a shit about you. He does not.

Dylan Koch: [14:14] It's hard because I you know, obviously, none of us on this show are fans of Pace and think he's a scumbag. Some of it, like, least a small percentage is like, why could other people not let's say you gave this guy $50. Like, I don't know. There's some personal responsibility that has to go with that, but then you shouldn't lose all your money. Like, you know?

Dan Austin: [14:34] No. I think the tough thing is is he's, you know, targeting those kind of guys target people that don't have they're vulnerable to those types of fraud, fraudulent attacks. Right?

Dylan Koch: [14:43] That's a good follow-up. It's like his SEC stuff. What was his minimum? Like, $5?

Mike DeHaan: [14:48] So I don't know the full details, but there was a lady that commented in the comments there that said, let me know what you figure out. I invested $5,000 with him. Right?

Dylan Koch: [14:58] And if you're accredited, like yeah.

Dan Austin: [15:02] That's

Mike DeHaan: [15:03] that's If you're taking $5,000 investments, take his credit. He's like, man, that's like one and a half months payments for my $500,000 investor. Yeah. Alright.

Dylan Koch: [15:13] Yeah. Yeah. That that'll save her money. She has money. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [15:17] Well, I think with a lot of these guys that raise capital like that, I really truly don't think they go into it giving a shit about the investor returns. I think that they think about how they can position themselves to make a shit ton of money regardless of what happens, whether that's selling the asset at a loss so that you still make money because you get a piece of the equity. Right? Or just raising capital to buy shit so you get the acquisition fee and at the end of it, you're three, four, or 5% on acquisition upfront. You don't really care what happens long term. Yeah. A lot of people

Mike DeHaan: [15:44] do that. Of course. That that's exactly what they're doing. But I mean, that's what they do though. They're selling the dream. They're all the same. Just like, you know, Pace, he's always out there cutting his grass on his place in Kalispell with his kids, you know. Like, people would really eat that up. He's making these little posts about this is what your life could look like if you do these things.

Dan Austin: [16:04] They're selling the dream, baby.

Mike DeHaan: [16:05] Yeah. Mhmm. I know. It's it's gonna be interesting to see what happens. Like, I it really we've saying that for a long time, but it really feels like the momentum of the collapse has picked up a ton over the last, like, three or four months.

Dan Austin: [16:19] It's probably just gonna I think it's just gonna keep getting tightened around folks, you know, probably the next twelve months before we see less of it, I would imagine. I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [16:28] I don't think we'll ever see less of it, dude. We already, we already talked about the episode, but the

Dan Austin: [16:32] I think we're in the spiral, right? As far as like some of these people that made bad decisions and we saw it really early on in like '24. And then some of these other bigger names of these large grifter names, should say, like, just catching up to them. We'll probably see some more fractures that we don't even hear about through it. Because I I just don't see the economy getting any easier for people to do business. And if you're just a turd piece of crap trying to rip people off, that there those people are still gonna exist, but there's just gonna be less opportunity for them or those those scams that they ran are gonna run out of steam and they're gonna just finally pop.

Mike DeHaan: [17:07] Yeah. I mean, you say the right thing to enough dumb people to believe it. You know, talking about, I mean, transition here. What are guys gonna do with your free $5,000? She jokes about TV show. If if they if they win the the house and the senate.

Dan Austin: [17:20] I was just thinking about getting a new TV. Probably probably a new TV.

Dylan Koch: [17:22] I'll probably buy some more Bitcoin.

Mike DeHaan: [17:24] So if you guys missed this, yesterday, Trump at a speech said that he was if, the Republicans win both the house and the senate, he's gonna give $5,000 to every adult in The United States.

Dylan Koch: [17:35] I don't

Dan Austin: [17:35] think he can cash that check.

Mike DeHaan: [17:37] No. The math on that, it's like $1,300,000,000,000. I think that's gonna be close.

Dan Austin: [17:42] I I don't even think like people that like, if they voted for that, like for if they voted like, we're gonna get Republicans to stay in the House and Senate, want that. Like I like I don't think anybody wants that.

Mike DeHaan: [17:52] Like nobody Nobody wants them to print $1,300,000,000,000 to to give out to people.

Dylan Koch: [17:56] You think $1,200 Timmy checks were bad. God, I know.

Dan Austin: [17:59] Well, and they it's like there I guess the question is, is there are there people out there, like, financially suffering where they're like, I mean, grand would be helpful? You know what

Mike DeHaan: [18:07] I mean? Probably. But the point is is, I mean, there's obviously, he's trying to make like a bribe to get people to vote one way. Writing a check that he can't cash. And I don't know that money would come from. Honestly, think that's basically him. You know, he obviously has his advisors

Dan Austin: [18:22] and stuff. It's just They're

Mike DeHaan: [18:23] really not looking optimistic for November if he's saying shit like that.

Dylan Koch: [18:28] I wanna Yeah. I want my tariff refund. Wasn't Dude. That a

Mike DeHaan: [18:32] Yeah. Well, the company's got that, Dylan. We didn't get those. All the all the companies got the massive tariff refunds, but all the consumers, we already paid for those. So it's not, you know, it's our problem.

Dan Austin: [18:42] Yeah. I think it's, I mean, obviously you have politicians do some pandering when it comes up to election time of like what, you know, it's the whole joke of like the high school kids saying, yeah, I'm gonna get soda machines and free lunches for everybody. Right? That's like

Mike DeHaan: [18:54] a politician's high school elections. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [18:56] But Trump is like, I'm just gonna give you guys $5,000 checks. Just vote. You know what I mean? Which doesn't make any sense in my opinion because it's like, it's not gonna change anything because whether Democrats are in the house or not, like, nothing else is nothing's moving in a direction that's like, nothing is going to change in my opinion.

Mike DeHaan: [19:14] I mean, at this point, the deficit's so severe that what an extra 1,300,000,000,000 on there, who cares?

Dan Austin: [19:19] That's what everybody keeps saying. And that's why every president for the last, however many decades has just keep kept adding to it. Is there a president recently

Dylan Koch: [19:27] Deposits do matter. And

Dan Austin: [19:29] Yeah. They they matter once they matter. Right?

Dylan Koch: [19:31] They matter once they matter. And, you know, the other competing thing with that is every prior assumption by economists throughout the past fifty years is based on the assumption that the generation before it is going to be bigger than the generation that just that was, you know, just there. That is not the same anymore. The Gen Z is smaller than millennials or, like, maybe Gen Y are the new ones. But so it might not matter for maybe ten, twenty years, but eventually it matters. And so I who knows what that's going to look like.

Mike DeHaan: [19:57] And then

Dan Austin: [19:57] it really matters because it's like a tipping point. Right?

Dylan Koch: [20:00] Yeah. I mean, you have to cut entitlements in some way. And so who are going to do that to? The baby boomers who have all the money? Are you going try to do it to people who are more our age and be like, hey, I know you paid into Social Security, we're but gonna cut it in half since you actually haven't collected any of it yet. Yeah. Like, I don't know. These are all options that are on the table.

Dan Austin: [20:16] So, okay. So actually, I just did some tragedy between. So Bill Clinton was, the last, federal budget surplus. So we haven't had a federal budget surplus since Bill Clinton. So that's pretty cool.

Dylan Koch: [20:26] Which is what? Early eighties? Right?

Mike DeHaan: [20:28] Bill Clinton. No.

Dan Austin: [20:29] That was like 2000.

Dylan Koch: [20:30] Oh, sorry. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [20:32] Yeah. Okay. So yeah, Bill Clinton was in the nineties. That's that was when he was president, but it looks like that happened in fiscal year two thousand is when that was the case. But anyways, besides that point, so if we had Social Security invested in something else, I think we'd all be fine. And so my my theory here is they should give you the option. Do you want your Social Security funds that you pay into every year to go into the Social Security, what do they call it? Trust or fund or whatever? Or do you want it to go into an S and P 500 investment? You should have the choice, left or right. Which one do you wanna do? And you can choose. And and based on that performance is what you'll get when you actually reach retirement age.

Mike DeHaan: [21:12] I just want to be able to opt out.

Dylan Koch: [21:14] Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [21:15] That's fair. The problem is, is you're paying for other people. Right? And so if you opt out, like how are you going to cover other people?

Mike DeHaan: [21:22] Exactly. You know, this is like, it's like insurance. I don't like that I am required to pay what I pay for insurance. Because I'm required to have a health insurance policy, and it's absurdly expensive. Health insurance

Dan Austin: [21:34] is just a freaking scam.

Mike DeHaan: [21:35] So that I can pay for all the all the subsidized freaking health insurance.

Dan Austin: [21:39] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [21:39] And you know, all the people that don't take fucking care of themselves.

Dan Austin: [21:42] Care of themselves. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [21:43] Is exactly the same with social security stuff. Like, people need social security because they get older, they were not financially well-to-do, they didn't make enough money into whatever. I wish I could opt out of that. Right? You know, I tend to be pretty blue on a lot of stuff, but that is like the one side of like the just don't wanna have to support people in those ways when so much of that is lifestyle driven.

Dan Austin: [22:05] That's a very fair point. I don't disagree with you. Okay. So you look at all the people in America, 330,000,000 people. Right? And there's only so many like dollars available, and there's only so much productivity that can earn those dollars. Right? So there's only there's just only so many wholesalers that can actually exist in Cincinnati. Right? Don't like You just like you can't Not everybody can be dealing. And so if there's only so many dollars available, there's only so much productivity that can be done to earn those dollars, but a small portion of the population, all those dollars skew to them, And they only need so many to retire and die with. When you opt out of social security or you opt those people out of taxes, what happens to the people that don't even have the chance to be productive and earn those dollars? This is my my liberal perspective here. You're gonna hear it.

Mike DeHaan: [22:47] I mean, totally. I mean, you're you're totally right. The problem is is that there's it's a lot larger like, the pools, the large people that have people that are taking that money, a lot of them who do not need it. Right? Like, is the whole thing is there are boomers out there that have a paid off house worth $5,000,000, and they are taking social security. Why? That's ridiculous. But you, you know, get a reverse more rate mortgage, leverage your house. You have assets.

Dan Austin: [23:11] So that's exactly my point is like, there's a lot of those dollars are getting skewed though. Those boomers actually have the wealth. Right? Right now. And it's not just boomers. Right? There's a lot of people, but there's also people that are fraudulently taking it. Right? So you have that whole aspect, which is a small

Mike DeHaan: [23:23] We know go bunnance guys. Right? Like these are higher net worth individuals who play the fucking tax game so that they can get subsidized health insurance.

Dylan Koch: [23:33] Oh, yeah. Their kids will be like get free

Dan Austin: [23:35] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [23:35] Meals at school, or they'll be on Medicaid because they're

Mike DeHaan: [23:38] They're getting like

Dan Austin: [23:38] free lunches. Crazy. And

Mike DeHaan: [23:39] these dudes are worth 4,000,000 That's so silly. That's who I see when I pay social security, that's what I'm paying for

Dan Austin: [23:45] it. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [23:45] Right? Yeah. And it's not right.

Dan Austin: [23:47] I feel like that's a small percentage of the population compared to the people that actually need it. That's where my argument is. It's like there's so many people in America that actually need it and they can't get it because they can't earn the same amount to pay into a fund separately. Right?

Dylan Koch: [24:01] Well, okay. So Social Security, I think, was in the thirties, you know, formed out of the Great Depression. And then Medicare, Medicaid was the sixties under Johnson. But like, what did okay. So what did they do before then, I guess, is my question.

Mike DeHaan: [24:13] We had real poor people. Yeah. Like, actual people that lived in ditches. You know? Like, honestly.

Dan Austin: [24:18] People worried. They had food security issues. We didn't have fat homeless people. We had skinny, like, trying to work people.

Mike DeHaan: [24:24] Like, honestly, like, if you go back to, like, the Great Depression and all that sort of stuff, like Yeah. You wanna talk about poverty? Go back to pre World War one.

Dan Austin: [24:31] Yeah. It was real poverty, and that's why FDR created some of the social safety nets. It's a tough argument because I don't think many people would argue against taxes. I think the argument is always what the taxes get used for, and I think that's where, like, the democrat and republicans where they mostly disagree is on the use of the taxes at. It's not really necessarily that we're collecting too much or too little. It's where are they going? And that's I think a general

Dylan Koch: [24:55] Well, treasury just came out and said they found 13. Those are the billion probably. 13,000,000,000 in and, like, more fraud. Kinda too hot.

Mike DeHaan: [25:04] That that list is that that is a bottomless It's

Dan Austin: [25:06] so crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [25:07] Yeah. You know, and the funny is is for all these people being, like, so, like, surprised by that, I'm like, come on. Really?

Dan Austin: [25:13] I think the dumb thing is so the thing where they should start is like the foreign countries that are doing it, like China and Russia and these other entities that are doing it just to to, you know, like to not that they need the money, but it's a way to extract money from the economy. Right? And, you know, hurt The US economy. I think they should just start with those people and just stop that fraud. And then they should just not pass laws that make it illegal for catching people to be when they're fraudulent.

Mike DeHaan: [25:36] When you get on a geopolitical level like that, it's tricky because that fraud also comes with income. Right? And like GDP.

Dan Austin: [25:43] What do you mean?

Mike DeHaan: [25:44] If it's through business ventures and trade, there's opportunity that comes with that. And like, yeah, they're trading up, taking a little bit off the top or whatever they're doing. They're moving things a certain way so they take extra money. But if it's like a net positive for like the larger picture, how much do they care?

Dan Austin: [25:59] I just think about the the money that's like just stripped out and taken right from the economy. Like, I don't know about the the GDP where that fits in, but like, yeah, there's definitely some significant I mean, this is also like when I my very small purview of being in the military and traveling and like during the war, like, when they would like literally ship money. Like, they just ship pallets of cash to these countries and guess where the cash goes? It just disappears. Like, it just goes away.

Mike DeHaan: [26:27] So, like, how screwed up that that whole situation is, Dan? There's that movie War Dogs with, Jonah Hill and who are the other actors, where basically these two guys, they figure out how to get, like, these government contracts. Mhmm. And they're like Yeah. Getting these huge contracts to like supply bullets. And then they're just going and buying like knock off bullets from like Russia and shipping them And it's this whole That's like a real story. Like those are real guys that did this. And you saw that firsthand. You told stories about over there where it's like, some of the stuff that would get supplied, and I've heard this from other people, one of the most mind blowing things when you land on some of these bases. And as far as the eye can see, it's just brand new Ford f one fifties that

Dan Austin: [27:04] Just sitting there.

Mike DeHaan: [27:05] Just sitting there. Never been touched. A lot of those are being driven by the Taliban now as like a just for fun because they thought they never got driven.

Dan Austin: [27:12] Totally. And all the other armored vehicles that were left there, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty wild. I mean, I would show up on Target to like bad dudes houses and there'd be like literally stacks stacks. Like, imagine a table full of, like, $100 bills that are all, like, from the Federal Reserve with the sequenced serial numbers on them. Like, it was clearly shipped from The US and it's, like, on this terror in this terrorist house. Because that's just how it happens. Like, just money, man.

Mike DeHaan: [27:36] And that's fraud. Like, you know, somewhere along the way Yes. That came over and the guy who was working there at whatever the delivery point was peeled a little bit off and gave it to his homie.

Dan Austin: [27:48] Yeah. Or some of it like like we've seen recently and this is just getting down the spiral hole, but like The US funding the Taliban. I can't remember what the number was, but it was like tens of millions of dollars a week. What it has have been and I think still under the Trump presidency is sending it to the Taliban, and they haven't been able to stop it. I think Tulsi Gabbard alerted everybody of that.

Mike DeHaan: [28:07] They can shut off the Taliban subscription.

Dan Austin: [28:10] How do I get off? Seriously though, like, they just keep and I don't know where it's at now because it's falling out of the news cycle, but it was like a factual thing, like, proven, like once we once we left in 2020, like, yes, the Taliban, was like $53,000,000 or something like that. Every single week was being sent to the Taliban. So like, they're talking about how they attacked The US with no money. Right? Now they have like billions of dollars. Like, why couldn't they just plan, You know? And it's again more fraud.

Dylan Koch: [28:34] Well, and we were there for like thirteen years or something stupid, and then the Taliban took that area back over in like forty eight hours or something stupid. Like, I don't remember.

Mike DeHaan: [28:41] We were

Dan Austin: [28:42] there for like twenty years, dude. Like Yeah. That's a long time. Crazy, dude.

Dylan Koch: [28:48] I think the general theme here is, government incompetence.

Mike DeHaan: [28:52] Yeah. Yeah. Well Yes. You know, for for sure on that end. And then with all the gurus, they're basically doing the exact same thing just on a private scale.

Dylan Koch: [28:58] Mhmm. Dan, what'd your what'd your prompts come back with?

Mike DeHaan: [29:01] Oh, yeah. We gotta follow-up on that. What did you say about Pace?

Dan Austin: [29:03] Okay. So it gave me a whole string of shit. So I gotta like

Mike DeHaan: [29:06] That's a great question.

Dan Austin: [29:07] Yeah. You're so right. So it gave it gave Josiah Grimes, his partner, a five out of 10 likelihood, which I think is pretty high of being a criminal. And then a six out of 10 for Pace. I'll be it. I'll be in a criminal. Give me a bunch of stuff.

Dylan Koch: [29:20] Too generous.

Dan Austin: [29:21] As to why. But like six out of 10, I mean, that's like, that's more, more likely than not. Chad GPT's assessment is more, he's more likely to be a criminal than not. Based on the limited amount of information, because I didn't ask it to go search social media or anything like that. It just went and found all of the stuff. It did find one thing that it said highlighted was like a crazy discrepancy. I won't get super into the details, but his '20, like twenty twenty four filing was drastically different for his, like in 2025. So like when he filed 2025, the number he put for 2024 was like $10,000,000 different than it was when he filed in 2024. So like they changed it and there was no amendment associated with that SEC filing. So it's like they just like changed the numbers. I don't know if there's anything there, but if you listeners wanna get in there and dive in.

Mike DeHaan: [30:06] You should, copy that and send it over. We'll, I'll put that in the show notes People can dive into it all they want. I wanna see if

Dan Austin: [30:12] you have

Mike DeHaan: [30:13] a bad day.

Dylan Koch: [30:13] Let's open source this. Everyone come back with your PACE allegations.

Dan Austin: [30:17] Yeah. What do you got? Send us some you know what we'll do? We'll we will build a case and turn it over to a class action attorney. Like you guys send us all your all your information, individual cases, and then you'll probably get some money out of it. Probably not, but at least you'll see pace go down.

Mike DeHaan: [30:32] That's actually a good idea. If you wanna crowdfund this with us, if you send us a thousand dollars, you can go towards the, the takedown pace fund. We need is 2,000 of you to do that. Oh, wait. There's three of us. 3,000 of you to do that. And then I bet you we can win.

Dylan Koch: [30:48] Yeah. I I agree.

Mike DeHaan: [30:51] And whatever whatever you donate, you will get a percentage of the proceeds that we get in our class action. Yeah. It's def The class

Dan Austin: [30:58] action lawsuits will get Lawyers will get all of it, but you guys get 3%.

Mike DeHaan: [31:02] Yeah. We're we're gonna give it a fancy name of like an animal. We'll call it the manta ray challenge or something. My gosh.

Dan Austin: [31:08] Yeah. No. We're just gonna call it the gator challenge, dude. Screw. We're just gonna rip it right off. We're gonna rip it

Dylan Koch: [31:12] right off. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [31:14] If you could be our gator lender for this class action lawsuit, we would definitely maybe pay you an interest rate.

Dylan Koch: [31:19] Well, what

Mike DeHaan: [31:20] we should actually do is we should teach people to go and raise money from other listeners, and you'll pay them interest if you don't have your own thousand dollars. They'll give you the thousand dollars to buy yours, and you just pay them Yeah. A portion of the proceeds that you get.

Dylan Koch: [31:32] Knowing you two are dorks better stop this or you're just gonna turn into something.

Dan Austin: [31:35] Oh, you wanna keep you wanna keep going? Let's go. Okay. Cool.

Mike DeHaan: [31:41] Thanks for listening, everybody. You guys have a great week. We'll talk to you guys next time. Bye.

Speaker 4: [31:45] This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzalot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, and I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you

Mike DeHaan: [32:30] came from here, when you get the closing,

Speaker 4: [32:32] you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So So slacapital.com/keys, we would love

Mike DeHaan: [32:37] to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can

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