SubTo Challenges: What Happens If A Property Owner Dies?

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] Real quick, guys. If you want to take your real estate investing business from 6 to 7 figures in the next twelve months, and you wanna do without being a slave to your business, then you have to check out our scale community. You can get the full details at collectingkeys.com/scale. But very basically, it is a community of like minded investors who are working to become the absolute top tier investors in their market. Along with three coaching calls per week led by Dan and myself, we also have a whole bunch of videos and materials that go into all the different SOPs that we use to run our business on a daily basis. This includes how we manage our sales team, how we hire, how we do our marketing systems, how we get the best assignment fees possible, how we do renovations, how we do all the different kinds of creative financing. And if you are serious about taking your real estate business to the next level, it is absolutely something that you should check out. So go to collectingkeys.com/scale, see all the details and see if you're a good fit. I keep hearing about all the new like wholesaling legislations that they're bringing out places and they're always seem to be in markets like Tennessee or like Yeah. South Carolina.

Mike DeHaan: [1:07] And then now if you've done deals in these markets, I'm like, well, that makes perfect sense. Yes.

Dan Austin: [1:11] This is wild shit going on.

Mike DeHaan: [1:19] What is going on, guys? Welcome to today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast. This is the show we teach you to make massive income, not just passive income with your real estate investing business. If this is your first time here, I am Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin. Hey. On these Wednesday, Mike and Dan show episodes, we talk about real estate, investing, business, and whatever else we feel like for the week. And we are full swing in the subject to weeds. If you guys have listened to us at all, you kinda know our general opinion on sub two transactions and the whole Pace Morby craze, which I think he's a crook and a criminal who will not have a good conversation with me no matter how hard I cry and there's always so many murky pieces of these kind of transactions. And we are in the process of selling a deal on a wrap that is basically subject to our existing mortgage that we have on there. Trying to keep our low interest rate, we'll also recover our capital, and you know, be able to keep some cash flow. And it's a very common thing that people over there allegedly do. Super common. But the buyer had a super valid question that no one else seems to be able to answer, surprise, surprise. So dive into that Dan, let me know what you've learned with this.

Dan Austin: [2:36] Yeah, so actually a handful of things to learn about this, there's a ton. We should dive into some of these other things as we en route with this, but to start with the subject to wrap that we're doing here, so And the reason why we're doing that is because we have some equity that we still wanna get paid, get that cash flow from it, so we're gonna collect the down payments, we're doing a 10% down payment. So it's actually a super solid deal for this guy that's buying it from us, and you know, he's gonna pay us what we wanna get paid, and he's going to be able to rent this thing out and still make some money, and he has personal reasons why he wants to buy this property as well, that just align with them perfectly. So, it's a great deal on both sides. There's actually a bunch of things I think that we're learning as we go through this, and one thing to note too that I was just thinking is that, you know, we're using Pace Morby's contract, or we're using a contract that we found that was allegedly from him, right? And it's actually a, like a decent contract, like it spells out a lot of the things that need to be addressed during a subject to or subject to a wrap transaction. Lots of different things which we can dive into, which I actually do think are good. But there's these things, like you mentioned, the guy that's buying it from us, who is buying it, like fully knowing what we're doing, he pursued, like he's, think he posted looking for a subject to deal. Mhmm. We have a subject to deal we're trying to sell.

Dan Austin: [3:50] So he's fully going into this knowing all that sort of stuff. It's his first deal though, which is awesome because he's like asking all the right questions that sometimes we as experienced investors don't think about, or things that don't pop up until you've had a deal with them. One of those questions is, what happens if you die? How am I gonna get protected? And I was sitting there on the phone, I was like, well let's think through this out loud, And I said, so you own the property. You are taking title, so nobody can take that away from you. You're buying it from you, we're gonna sign over the deed, you are taking title. So if I die, like my kids can't take the house, my spouse can't take the house, like the house is yours fundamentally. The thing that doesn't go is that mortgage, because the mortgage company still thinks I'm the title, or me and you are the ones that have the personal guarantee for that loan, so we're still taking the risk. But, in general, if you die, you would assume the mortgage company would want to get paid, right? Because yep, there's typical probate process, I don't know that they would find out right away or maybe they would, I have no idea. However, so I posted in the Pace Morby group, posted in there, they get a lot of posts a day, so it's a very active group, posted that same question, like what happens if I die, how do I protect the seller? I got one guy to respond, and it was get a power of attorney, and then another guy responded like, yeah, that would be good, except for the power of attorney always is eliminated when the person dies. So you can't give a power of attorney to solve the problem. So the funny thing is, like you and I were chuckling about is like, out of all the thousands of people in this group, and Paces team themselves, nobody could answer that.

Mike DeHaan: [5:22] That's the other thing too that I find really funny is, their group is very, he has like an administrative account Mhmm. That is very active at responding Until to a question comes up that doesn't have a bullshit politician answer Yeah. And actually has some kind of weight behind it, they are radio silent.

Dan Austin: [5:41] Silent dude, like I would have thought that they would have responded, because like a post right after mine they responded to. So my point is, is not that it's like, oh this is all bullshit, know, that da da da, like, no, it's legit. And if this is the answer to this, which I'm totally okay with, is well, keep paying the mortgage and hope they don't call the loan due because the person who is guaranteeing is dead, and if it is, and if they do call, or if they do call the loan due, then go and refinance it, and hopefully you can do that and make sure you're set up to be able to refinance that in the case. And also, the dude's 90 years old, maybe don't do this deal with them. If they're young like me in their 30s, healthy, you got a little less risk of the guy just dying, but I can still get hit by a bus. My point being, if that's the answer, that's okay. Everybody's okay with that. I think should be okay with that answer, and then you have to decide, like is this risk from a buyer and seller standpoint okay? But PACE and nobody on that side of the fence is saying that, there's no answer to it. It's like, but same thing with the insurance thing, why I'm like, why do you need a special insurance company?

Dan Austin: [6:40] And his response is, we need it because most people don't know how to do insurance, so I use this special insurance company and that's how they figure out. It's like, no, it's because when you're changing title and you've changed insurance companies, they're going to connect with the lender and get the lender's information to put it on the policy and they don't wanna alert the lender that they're titled to transfer because then the lender could make a due on sale. Just say that's the risk.

Mike DeHaan: [7:02] I know. That's the problem, is so many things are just like this fancy way of like trying to make sure that dad doesn't find out that you're breaking the rules.

Dan Austin: [7:09] Yeah. If that's the case, just be like, hey dude, my dad finds out he's gonna whoop our ass. Like, okay.

Mike DeHaan: [7:13] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [7:13] You still wanna do it? Yeah, I'm taking

Mike DeHaan: [7:15] that risk all day long. Exactly. And that's the whole issue I have with this whole sort of just like sphere of real estate is they try to downplay the legitimate challenges and risks with these fancy sort of like strategies and companies, all these things, all of which, by the way, he owns. Yeah. He has ownership at all of these companies. Yeah. When really what they're just trying to do is reduce the chances of it getting seen, or just trying to like make it so that as little of a paper trail as possible to show this transfer of title. And the challenge with this one as well, cause we're selling it on a wrap, So our existing mortgage is staying in place. We want a balloon payment in five years, so that we actually can exit the debt at some point and get paid off fully. Makes perfect sense for us to want that. Yeah. If we were to both die, okay, which is you know a possibility, anything can happen.

Dan Austin: [8:04] We fly together sometimes.

Mike DeHaan: [8:05] Yeah, right, we're flying down together to Keystone. If you know that were to happen and this guy five years from now, he's continued to pay the mortgage, he now wants to get a payoff statement from the lender. If you go to get a payoff statement through a title and escrow company, they need an approval letter to get the payoff statement from the lender. Nobody is around to be able to get this payoff statement. So what the hell is the guy gonna do? Exactly. He's completely screwed.

Dan Austin: [8:29] Yes.

Mike DeHaan: [8:29] And now he has a debt that an escrow company is going to enforce our balloon payment, which money's going to go to our families. Yep. Because they're the ones that hold that note, that debt. But the lender, not they're gonna be able to get a payoff statement, so it's just not gonna get paid off, or they're gonna go and like try to sue this guy, or like what the situation's gonna be, like I have no idea.

Dan Austin: [8:50] I think the answer is who knows what could happen, but I know it will be a pain in the ass because, yeah, absolutely. So say that five years does come up and our wives, we're dead, so our wives don't have people producing income for them, so like this asset of the note, would be like $80,000 at the end of it all, would be a good chunk of money for them to maybe need, who knows what could happen. Mhmm. And so, at five years, they're gonna need that, they're gonna want that, and this guy's gonna try to pay it off, and he's probably gonna try to do the right

Mike DeHaan: [9:17] thing, because he's a good guy.

Dan Austin: [9:18] Yeah. And it's gonna be a six to eight month process maybe, if just knowing how things work, when you go to the bank and they're like, well, who does this? Who's gonna sign the paperwork? Yeah, nobody because the guy's dead. Well, we've never had that happen before, what do we do? And it's gonna be a lot of back and forth and you're gonna go into the institution of the bank and who knows who's gonna carry the note that we have, because we have a thirty year normal conventional debt on this thing that could get sold at any time to any new lender.

Mike DeHaan: [9:47] Yeah, right, and then there's letters that are being sent that are alerting that that go to nobody, because the people that hold the note are deceased, like it's just there's a so many pieces and that's such a fascinating question that guy asked because that's something that I've never thought about or heard anyone talk about. And I think that falls into the bucket of the other things that Pace fully understands probably exist, he's just like, let's just hope that nobody asked me about that in public setting because I don't have a good answer. Yeah. Right? Or if he'd, or I bet he does have a good answer, but it's like a politician's answer where he

Dan Austin: [10:19] Oh yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [10:19] Loops around and has like some other bullshit excuse for how he deals with it. Yeah. His answer to that

Dan Austin: [10:24] question is, is people, I mean my seller's gonna be in, thank me so much for helping them, it's like,

Mike DeHaan: [10:30] what, okay. Or he's gonna be like, my lawyers assure me that there is no problem with this, as long as you get this, whatever form signed, I'm gonna put it in a safe deposit box where I get to have access to it. Oh my god.

Dan Austin: [10:44] Yeah. And to close the loop on this too, to make it more complicated is people wholesaling these types of deals. Mhmm. So now the buyer has no connection to the seller. Like in this case, we're both educated, like we're gonna do this deal, right? Like as long as the buyer's still in, like we're in. We know we're just fully exploring the risks on both sides, and so we're selling this property regardless, we're happy with the results and happy to take on the risks associated with this, and if he is, that's fine, and these are two fully well, that everybody that's involved understands the risks. Yeah. If you wholesale, and say we're wholesale, because this guy actually thought we were wholesaling, I was like, no dude, we own this house. I was like, so if I die, like you're talking to the guy, right?

Mike DeHaan: [11:21] So he

Dan Austin: [11:21] was like, oh, okay, makes sense. But if you weren't, this buyer has no idea who that is, so there's just no relationship to even have, So three years from now, if he has a question, who's he gonna contact, you know? And he's not gonna contact the seller, he might contact the wholesaler who's likely gonna be out of business right now, and maybe even in jail, who knows?

Mike DeHaan: [11:39] Or maybe they're dead. Or maybe they're dead too. Maybe the seller

Dan Austin: [11:42] and the wholesaler both died in a plane wreck.

Mike DeHaan: [11:44] Yeah, exactly, who knows?

Dan Austin: [11:45] I mean,

Mike DeHaan: [11:47] there might be a solution, if you guys know what it is, I would love to know. Please hit one of us up on Instagram, I'm at mike underscore invest and it's at investor man dan, or send us an email just at ad net collecting keys and say like, here's how you deal with the death of the lien guarantor. Guarantee, yeah. The guarantor is the one that holds the his responsibility I pay

Dan Austin: [12:08] don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [12:08] They use the words kind of in a way, it goes backwards to me. But when that person dies, the person that's supposed to back the mortgage guarantees the mortgage dies, this is how you're supposed to do it, subject to because I would love to know. I can't figure it out. And if I was thinking about it, what I would assume is you probably should like put it into a trust and have like a trustee who is responsible for paying off that note that is like a legal company. Yeah. Like a lawyer or something like that. That also feels like extra steps and I also know for a fact that none of those clowns that are a part of that business do that.

Dan Austin: [12:40] No. Of course not.

Mike DeHaan: [12:41] No. They definitely don't. No. So yeah. So that's one of our dramas. And then our next drama, because this is just the drama show on Wednesdays. It seems like at least once a month. Southern people.

Dan Austin: [12:53] Oh, bless your heart.

Mike DeHaan: [12:54] Bless your heart.

Dan Austin: [12:56] Bless your heart.

Mike DeHaan: [12:57] Hey. We really appreciate being a listener of the collecting keys podcast. Did you know that we also are on social media and on YouTube? You should go and shoot us a follow on those as well. You can find both Dan and I on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore invests. Dan is at investor main Dan. You can also find short clips from the show at collecting keys podcast on Instagram. And if you wanna see our faces talking while listening to this show or you wanna check out some of our crazy animated adventures, we've been putting together into some funny little web cartoons that sort of show the crazy stories that guests tell on the show, then you should go over to YouTube and check out the collecting keys channel. Shoot us a subscribe over there. It really helps continue to grow our audience. We really, really appreciate it. Well, anyways, enjoy the rest of show you guys. We appreciate you all. There's this whole talk about southern hospitality and I I was I was saying my experience to the South have always and the South have always been great. Super nice people, great customers, When everything's it comes to business, why are so many of you dicks? Sharks. Yeah, sharks. Sharks, dude. I have this experience with now with two or three people that are have been involved in this transaction.

Mike DeHaan: [14:04] So we have these subject to deals that got called like six months ago at this point, you guys, if you've around at all, you've heard us talk about it a lot. So a lawyer got called you, we had to pay them off for trying to sell them. We have one of these properties that we are now on closing day at time of recording for the second time the Different buyer, different buyer. Yeah, has come back on closing day with more just like bullshit that is jeopardizing the closing of this deal.

Dan Austin: [14:29] More requests for money, basically.

Mike DeHaan: [14:32] Exactly. And so on the first one, on the first one they just couldn't even get their stuff together and then they just ghosted us entirely, refused to release earnest money or do anything.

Dan Austin: [14:41] They kept blaming the lenders Yeah. Is what they kept doing. In reality, think it was them that couldn't close.

Mike DeHaan: [14:46] Exactly. And they got real shady about it, because they just like ghosted. And after being like super like on top of it and winning all these things for 99% of the way, day up they just ghosted them and said, okay, guess we gotta go back in the market. Got under contract again. And now, throughout the entire time, we made clear very early, we did not get security deposits when we bought these properties. We bought them distressed. It's common for us not to get security deposits to duplex. There are tenants in there. We've also had a tenant that stopped paying that we are going through the formal eviction process that was made clear extremely early on. Very,

Dan Austin: [15:16] very made clear. So I don't know how clear it could be.

Mike DeHaan: [15:19] Yep. And now we are at closing. Okay. And the timeline, everything has been made clear for weeks. We're at closing, and they go, oh, we're not gonna close anymore if we don't get security deposits from you guys. I'm like, bro, was it three days ago? They just asked saying, for a can you just confirm that you did not get security deposits? He said sure here we go, you know that's the case, you've known about this, this was part of our disclosure when we did the initial offer And on this now they're just saying, oh yeah they're just not gonna close if they don't get the $1,200. Yeah. Trying to like shake us down for nothing. Right? And out of principle I'm like, I'm not gonna freaking pay it. No. Like I don't care, you're gonna walk away from a property for $1,200, I don't care. You can screw off. Right? And there's that. And then now we have this eviction which is happening today, and they're wanting like all this extra hold back money until that's completed, which is slightly more reasonable. But it's mostly the way that they're going about it, where after pushing on us to close on this time and all these different things, they're now saying, actually, we're gonna delay it because the time line that we have known has existed for thirty days is actually panning out and we decide we don't like that Yeah. On closing day.

Dan Austin: [16:27] It's like most other people that would go and buy a duplex off the MLS, they're just too scared to do the freaking deal. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like come on, just get over it and it's like

Mike DeHaan: [16:35] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [16:35] I guess the the one, I guess the unsung heroes are are our brokers down

Mike DeHaan: [16:39] there because like if you think

Dan Austin: [16:40] you have a good broker

Mike DeHaan: [16:41] Uh-huh. You don't Right.

Dan Austin: [16:43] Compare to these folks down there.

Mike DeHaan: [16:44] They're hustling. They're doing great.

Dan Austin: [16:45] I mean, legit operators. Was it Kaizen home sales? Kaizen home sales? What? I can't Yeah. Remember what they

Mike DeHaan: [16:50] Kaizen. It's It's his, yeah, with a Wyatt Graves.

Dan Austin: [16:52] So, if you're ever at Baton Rouge, hit up Wyatt Graves down there. Legit, I mean, I'll be honest, I kinda knew we were evicting somebody, but I didn't really know.

Mike DeHaan: [16:59] Like, I

Dan Austin: [17:00] was like, oh, yeah, we gotta evict these people because they're not paying rent. And they told us that they weren't paying rent and they're gonna evict them. Was cool, take care of it.

Mike DeHaan: [17:06] They've been handling it, Tom.

Dan Austin: [17:07] They've also organized every single bit of repairs. They've done things that are like, you know, preemptive, hey, you're gonna need to do this, so we're gonna take care of it for you. All that sort of stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [17:17] Because it is.

Dan Austin: [17:18] And, I mean, you and I, loosely involved, never been there, never even seen the properties.

Mike DeHaan: [17:22] Yeah. Don't even know where it

Dan Austin: [17:23] is, honestly. Just absolute studs when it comes to that because we know a lot of brokers and I don't know that I've ever dealt with one that's this organized and actually has all the contacts that do things for reasonable prices and are like, here's my recommendation for you.

Mike DeHaan: [17:35] Yeah, totally. Yeah. So it's been our drama down there and I apologize to southern people targeting you, but this is also compounded with the fact that in our scale community, the wildest stories of betrayal

Dan Austin: [17:46] Always come to

Mike DeHaan: [17:47] Southeast. Always come from our guys that were in like Georgia or like Mississippi.

Dan Austin: [17:52] Like straight up, like stabbing people in the back kind of stuff. Just wildness.

Mike DeHaan: [17:56] Yeah, like one of our guys, he's in an area outside of Atlanta. He's talking about how one of his one of his like, mom's friends, who's like a real estate investor and was like a kind of like a mentor for him, has taken to talking shit about him on Facebook, and now trying to like stab him in the back on deals by like going behind him

Dan Austin: [18:15] So crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [18:16] On stuff.

Dan Austin: [18:16] Yeah. So crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [18:17] But then like you'll see him at the grocery store and they just treat it like all good. Like let me just say that in the Pacific Northwest, we're all passive aggressive. We don't do that at all. We just screw each other over and don't say anything.

Dan Austin: [18:30] We're not nice to each other when we do it.

Mike DeHaan: [18:32] Yeah, right. We're not nice to each other We're in not like Yeah. Saying like, oh, you know, hope your family have a great Christmas, they go in and steal deals. We're just like, I'm just not gonna talk to their family at all, and then we go

Dan Austin: [18:42] steal Yeah, the fuck their family. You go to the Northeast, they're just, they're assholes to your face.

Mike DeHaan: [18:46] Yeah. Yeah, right.

Dan Austin: [18:48] Everybody's got their dynamics.

Mike DeHaan: [18:49] It's a double negative up there. They're dick to you in person and they're stealing your deals.

Dan Austin: [18:53] Yeah, exactly. It is mind blowing, kinda like how, because we've had some pretty good success down in the Southeast, there's been a lot of like action down there, but it's like when you actually look at where like a lot of like the problems in every market with wholesaling, right?

Mike DeHaan: [19:05] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [19:05] When you actually look at like all the buyer issues, and people like kinda go behind each other's back, or people just kinda doing shit that's like, that's just not good business

Mike DeHaan: [19:14] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [19:14] Comes out of there.

Mike DeHaan: [19:15] Totally. And then I keep hearing about all the new like wholesaling legislations that they're bringing out places, and they're always seem to be in markets like Tennessee, or like South Carolina.

Dan Austin: [19:24] And then

Mike DeHaan: [19:24] now if you've done deals in these markets, I'm like, well that makes perfect sense.

Dan Austin: [19:27] Yes. Because there's some wild shit going on.

Mike DeHaan: [19:29] Why they're wanting to do that? There's some wild

Dan Austin: [19:33] shit going on down there, man.

Mike DeHaan: [19:34] It's been so fascinating building out this partnership model, you know, where nationwide, because you see all the different seller personalities and the investor personalities everywhere. You know, because you realize very quickly how many different cultures there are within The United States in terms of like how a sales process looks, how a transaction process looks, how they expect you to be like even having conversations, introducing yourself, what that cadence looks like. There really are you know, multiple countries within The United States in terms of like the just general cultural population.

Dan Austin: [20:09] I mean, yeah, technically there's gotta be just the geography, right? We're so big, and then yeah, you really get to see it, you get to see like the local cultures of business, because you could like go and like, say, you were just in Charleston, say you moved there for the summer, like you kinda generally get the culture and the vibe, right? Mhmm. Like, okay, this is what it's like here, but like when you start making money or like doing business with people, really get to see behind the scenes of like how people actually act when it's not a good time out at a restaurant or the bar, what you

Mike DeHaan: [20:35] see at a

Dan Austin: [20:36] park, like it's like, no, this is how people really are. So it is kinda cool to see the little micro cultures. Yeah. I mean, not always cool, but I guess interesting to see all the little micro cultures around the country.

Mike DeHaan: [20:44] Yeah, and I mean, and I'll say in general, from my experience down there, when I was there a couple weeks ago, incredibly friendly people. Like I've never had more random people just like talk to me in like restaurants, or like in coffee shops and stuff, like wanting to have a conversation about nothing. Yeah. Yes. They were just like, they didn't know I wasn't from there. It wasn't like, oh, are you from out of town? I wanna like talk to you. It was just like, oh, have you like tried this on the menu? You want it from around here. Well, people didn't even have southern accents there. I don't know if there's like a traditional accent like Georgia where there's like a common Georgia accent. Yeah. Don't know. Always makes me think of Bill Clinton. Arkansas? Yeah. He's an Arkansas, which sounded from Atlanta.

Dan Austin: [21:21] Same thing.

Mike DeHaan: [21:22] Same thing, whatever. But it's just so interesting to see this. And it always makes me think of like the Ozarks. Honestly, that's what we joke with our guy on our scale coaching call, he talks about some of these things. He's like getting done over by old ladies, you know, that are like pulling fast ones on him. You know, I'm like you got freaking Darlene down there dude. Darlene, You better give her the money or she's gonna stab you with a heroin needle.

Dan Austin: [21:48] What was that line that somebody said, it's like I don't know shit about fuck.

Mike DeHaan: [21:51] Yeah that's rude. Yeah. That's like how they act, it's like, but they're sharp, man, they know exactly

Dan Austin: [21:57] Yeah, what they're they're sharp. They got some business savvy. They know how to do deals, backrooms, shaking hands, all that sort of stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [22:05] Nah, it's been it's been quite the ups and downs, but you know, that's the business though. Right? And that is why as a wholesaler and off market operator, you can make significantly more money than the people that go on the market and kinda just like follow the standard rules and regulations around real estate.

Dan Austin: [22:21] Totally.

Mike DeHaan: [22:22] We get messy because it has what did they say? The the five d's are the things that will make you the most money. I forget what the all of them are. This is something that I like learned in a it's actually from a high school teacher that I had who was an economics teacher and he Five d's? Yeah. He's like the five d's. Basically, he said if they're, what'd he say, if they're difficult, they're dull, so they're like super boring, dangerous. I can't remember the fourth one. The last one was devious. Dick. Yeah. Not dick. So yeah. Exactly. But basically, like, you know, if they were like hard, they were super boring, they were, you know, something that you could like kill you or they're something like illegal, then those are the things that you have to do if you wanna make like real money. And it's funny, it's one of those things that he said this in, I don't know, it was 2007 when I was in high school. And I regularly think about that because that was at a time where they were pampering all of us millennials to just like go to college and have these really safe

Dan Austin: [23:13] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [23:13] Like little jobs where you just live in an office, don't have to work that hard, you go home and watch Netflix, you send some emails and you make $85,000 a year, right? Which is what a lot of people were sort of expecting. Yeah. And now you have all those people who've gotten into that role and you're the ones that were kinda like a little bit later than me, that are like, I did all that stuff and now I make $15 an hour and I have a master's degree. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Because you don't have any of those things that actually require

Dan Austin: [23:37] You're not doing anything difficult or dangerous.

Mike DeHaan: [23:39] Yeah. Yeah. And sure it's boring, but that's not like intentionally, that's just because that's unfortunately how it's built out.

Dan Austin: [23:45] Yeah. So So interesting. That's a good point of

Mike DeHaan: [23:48] view. Yeah. So Good mentor back in the day ahead of his time.

Dan Austin: [23:51] Yeah. He is. He loved his d's, man. Five d's. Mike glommed on to that. I did. Like is this guy talking about d's?

Mike DeHaan: [23:59] Yeah. Hey, this is this is this before anything like that was acceptable to talk about, so I had to take my chance. No.

Dan Austin: [24:06] Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [24:07] Anyways, so on top of that though, we are rounding out April. Things are in full swing, the market's looking strong. I've had a handful of new members of the scale community who have been coming and taking things by storm, getting ready for KeysCon here in about a month. Yeah, I'm so pumped. Which is coming up super fast. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited for that though. It should be fun too because like with Keyz Con this time around, you learned a lot from the first one and so going into the second one, there's a lot more things so I think we're just gonna do better which should be good. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [24:40] We're gonna be able to tighten up the schedule, be able to tighten up the topics, so we can do just as much but just better and deliver the deliverability of it is gonna be even better.

Mike DeHaan: [24:49] Yeah, for sure. Mean, we're bringing in like a couple specialists to talk about like specific parts that they're good at. So, you know, we have like a new partner that we've been working with that's sort of a pro at sales, he's gonna be coming in and coaching on that, which will be better than us coaching sales when we're not like Yeah. Like we're admittedly just not our strong point. Good at building a team and managing a team, but the actual sales skills, bringing in somebody that actually crushes that,

Dan Austin: [25:15] the soft skills that matter, that helps this dude crush.

Mike DeHaan: [25:18] Exactly. Right? It's like if I try to teach someone how to throw a football versus actually having a football coach Yeah. Teach you that, it's gonna, like, go a lot further.

Dan Austin: [25:25] Totally.

Mike DeHaan: [25:26] Right? And so, yeah, we got a lot of changes there. We're also bringing out the same photographers, which I think will be cool as we continue to do more events, if we build those relationships with people that kind of understand us and our brand. I just think the quality of of content and things will just improve.

Dan Austin: [25:38] Yeah. Yeah. Those guys are chill. It'd be fun to have them back in town and and Yeah. We basically have our crew now. They just fly around the country and follow us. We're

Mike DeHaan: [25:45] I know. So

Dan Austin: [25:46] I know. Famous.

Mike DeHaan: [25:47] Is that the right word? Yeah. So, I don't know. Famous.

Dan Austin: [25:51] We were paying for a camera crew to follow us around. How about that?

Mike DeHaan: [25:54] Yeah. That's Anyone can do that. That's Right. Have you ever been to events and there's somebody that has a camera crew that's following them around and they're like not really like a big deal at all. I mean I get why people do it. You're trying to build your brand, trying to do these things. It is also so cringey dude.

Dan Austin: [26:10] Like what do you mean like when you go to like an event and you got like a speaker and somebody's filming them kind of thing? Or like you mean they're just walking around like, hey, I'm this guy.

Mike DeHaan: [26:19] So I think about like that guy that spoke at Steve's mastermind, a business coach's mastermind. The shorter guy? The I'm looking at Jets guy. Oh, Yeah. He like had like

Dan Austin: [26:31] Ryan his Zofle.

Mike DeHaan: [26:32] Yeah. He had like his crew there, and he's like a d list influencer.

Dan Austin: [26:36] And his like 19 year old girlfriend and he's like 40. That was not awkward.

Mike DeHaan: [26:40] That was not awkward at all. He's like a D list celebrity and he had his camera crew. But now that's what he does, is he like, he has a camera crew, a professional camera crew that follows him into like a fricking mall Wetzel's Pretzels, and he like gives him a thousand dollars.

Dan Austin: [26:53] Dude.

Mike DeHaan: [26:54] Dude, it's so cringey. I'm like, who does that?

Dan Austin: [26:56] He flew on a private jet once or got near it and he had so many videos that week of him being near a private jet. Like how many times he walked off that jet to film a different piece of content because it's all the same background, same clothes, just different like piece of content. I'm like, bro.

Mike DeHaan: [27:12] He's like, I'm looking at this Jordan today.

Dan Austin: [27:14] I'm looking at Jets, dawg. Yeah. He got his free seat on his NetJets when he You signed

Mike DeHaan: [27:19] know, when you're not the level yet where people are like, okay, that guy's a big deal, Just like have your girlfriend or your buddy follow you around with an iPhone, they film in four ks, you'll be fine, then you won't look like a raging douchebag. It's really not that Well

Dan Austin: [27:33] I mean honestly in his defense he is a raging douchebag. That's So like that's why it comes off that way. Like, without the cameras, he would be that way. And he's not even a d list celebrity, he's adjacent to another, I've tended to call him a d list celebrity, but a niche celebrity. Yeah. So like, he's not even on the list.

Mike DeHaan: [27:48] No. Like, at all. I don't I don't even know what he does. I can't remember. I zoned out.

Dan Austin: [27:52] I don't know. Yeah. Something to do with like rehab centers. Yeah. Supposedly, allegedly.

Mike DeHaan: [27:57] Yeah. So

Dan Austin: [27:58] He owes he owes Aaron Bihl $10.

Mike DeHaan: [28:01] I know Aaron Bihl. Sharon doesn't want the money out of principal, which is fine. But we had we had like a whole exercise there where he was like, hey, like sell me on this and I'll I'll give you $10,000 and Aaron was just not having it.

Dan Austin: [28:13] Do you know what he reminded me of? He reminded me of my daughter. Like trying to get her to do something that she did not wanna do in front of a group of people. That's what it reminds

Mike DeHaan: [28:20] me of. Yeah, that's I mean that's very valid.

Dan Austin: [28:22] He was so stubborn, I'll give it to Aaron, give him credit, he was so stubborn. He stuck to his chocos, man.

Mike DeHaan: [28:28] He to his chocos. Did not

Dan Austin: [28:29] get out of his chocos.

Mike DeHaan: [28:31] Yeah. Speaking of him too, a few guys, he had an episode with us, Aaron Beale down in San Antonio. Very very good operator. Think it's Aaron Beale, b I h l. We have our animated short coming out on our YouTube with him. Believe by the time this episode comes out Those are good ones. Should be released or should be releasing the day after this. Yeah. A fun one. It'll be a it'll be a really good one. Yeah. I mean, he also does this. And also too, can people stop quasi successful people stop building themselves like giving service workers like fat tips?

Dan Austin: [29:00] That one pisses me off more than anything. Or just in general donating or giving the money away like you're some badass like

Mike DeHaan: [29:06] Just do it. Dude, just do it. If you're gonna provide that to somebody like they gave you good service or you wanna like respect them or whatever, like that's that's fine. But don't like film it and put on social media, it's so ridiculously cringey.

Dan Austin: [29:20] I feel like it's super disrespectful and super cringey honestly.

Mike DeHaan: [29:25] It's like look at what I'm doing for this poor person, that's how it feels. Yeah, like here's the

Dan Austin: [29:29] thing I think I really, when it comes to like donations and philanthropy, 99% of that in people, it's all about ego. It's look how much excess I have, I can just give it away. Yeah. Right, there's so many people that do that. That's why like, you see all these like galas where people are donating money, they feed off of rich people's egos, they're smart. Yeah. Honestly, you get people in the room, it's like, I'm gonna donate this, or I wanna be the big cheese in, at the table, or I bought a table at this gal, or whatever. Like there's a lot of ego around it. That's where I think also service can be better if you're not trying to film it, and you know, make money off of it, like whatever, but like just do your thing how you wanna do it. Like I respect people that donate money or time and don't ever talk about it. Other than like, that's just their thing. Obviously if you're trying to raise money for a good cause you have to talk about it, but like, if that's your thing and you really truly wanna do it, just do it. Don't put it on Instagram.

Mike DeHaan: [30:25] You know what it reminds me of? There's this old clip, it's like a black and white video clip from obviously a long time ago that you see going around every so often. And it's like a British, I don't if like a monarch or a world, just like a rich person that's in India. And you know, they just con us India where all the super poverty stricken people were. She's like throwing coins out, and all these kids are like beating each other up, like getting these coins. Hell yeah. That, like, when you see people that go and film it on Instagram to go and like give money to people, that's how it feels to me. Like the same thing. That's actually hilarious. Honestly.

Dan Austin: [31:01] That that is is what it is too and it's like, what are you doing? I don't know, like it just doesn't feel good.

Mike DeHaan: [31:06] Especially you walk into like a KFC and you give like the cashier a thousand bucks, what do think happens the second she turns around? Yeah. People want their piece of the money. They're like

Dan Austin: [31:14] Totally.

Mike DeHaan: [31:14] Hey, you know, Sharon got her fat tip, where's mine?

Dan Austin: [31:18] Right. Seriously.

Mike DeHaan: [31:19] Like honestly. My

Dan Austin: [31:21] version of that, what you just said was the analogy like there used to be during like, you know, the Iraq war, like you'd see all these videos coming out from like the American soldiers.

Mike DeHaan: [31:29] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [31:29] They'd like throw candy or throw anything down at the kids and they'd all run and fight over it.

Mike DeHaan: [31:33] There was that one of the fat kid that was like went viral when we were in calls.

Dan Austin: [31:37] That was huge. That was super popular dude. Yeah, that's that's another

Mike DeHaan: [31:40] one. That's exactly

Dan Austin: [31:41] what it's like. It's like come on, chill out people.

Mike DeHaan: [31:43] Yeah. So Alright. We gotta wrap this up because I gotta go swing over to a coaching call here. Oh, yeah. So everybody, thanks for listening. Seriously, if you know a solution to this sub two, what happens if we die thing, please

Dan Austin: [31:55] I'd love to hear

Mike DeHaan: [31:56] it. Message one or both of us on Instagram. I'm at mike underscore invest. Dan is at investor man Dan. Or if you listen to this and you're like, Instagram's for teenage girls, then just send us an email at admin@collectingkeys.com as well. Hoot hoot. Because I honestly, I need a solution so we can get this thing figured out, and so I can have one more piece of ammo that I can finally hold over. I can continue to hold over Pace's head when I do ultimately meet him.

Dan Austin: [32:16] Mike loves that.

Mike DeHaan: [32:17] Which it will happen. I'm gonna have my list of bullshit things that I will openly discuss with him that he will dance around like a politician. And even though he's worth 20 times as much as I am and has a thousand times more influence, does not mean that he is right. It still means that he's a Yeah. Freaking liar. I cannot

Dan Austin: [32:33] deal So with

Mike DeHaan: [32:34] anyways, appreciate you guys listening, and we'll talk to you guys next week.

Dan Austin: [32:37] See you.