Petty Lawsuits, Fake Buyers, and a $120K Retrade

Dan Austin: [0:01] I'm a soccer guy now. Only because I'm

Mike DeHaan: [0:04] soccer guy now. America's doing great.

Dan Austin: [0:06] So But but I do love I do love all the videos going around of, like, all these other, like, foreigners coming here and being like, America's actually kind of dope. Like, they're like It sweet. Buc ee's or like Yeah. Mac and cheese. Like, all this stuff that we're kinda like, not super proud of.

Mike DeHaan: [0:21] Did you see

Dylan Koch: [0:21] where they're like they the TSA had to make an announcement like, hey. If you're packing a ranch to go home, put it in your checked bag, you can't put on your carry on.

Mike DeHaan: [0:28] Yeah. Because they're all that

Dan Austin: [0:29] ranch video was so funny, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [0:31] Well, I I I think it's such an important reminder that a country is not the same as its administration. Yeah. Right? Like like, you can go most places that have a troublesome administration from a worldview perspective and the people there are gonna be cool. I I think the average person is fine.

Dan Austin: [0:47] Right. I think it's like like, something like this, like a common, passion, like, say around soccer, that's like a pretty ubiquitous around the world. Yeah. Is like more shows how humans are actually cool with each other and it's just Mhmm. The leaders that are assholes.

Mike DeHaan: [1:01] 100%. You know? And and so at the World Cup, like, that's always been the power of the World Cup is that really emphasizes that with people. Also too, it brings together populations that would never see each other. Like, when was the last time you would have a population of people from The Congo in the same space as a bunch of people from The UK?

Dylan Koch: [1:18] Ever.

Mike DeHaan: [1:18] Happened yesterday. Never will happen again except for maybe during imperialism, which is not really the best time.

Dan Austin: [1:24] Right. Yeah. It's not really ideal an idealist.

Mike DeHaan: [1:27] Yeah. No. You're it's it's actually pretty cool to see. That was supposed to be my intro queued in. Got that together, Max. I pressed the wrong button because they changed fucking alright. What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. I'm Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin and Dylan Cook. And, yeah, we have a World Cup fever over here. Even Dan's into soccer. That's how you know that big things are happening. I will say though, like, just to just round that off, it's probably a good time to get into it because I've been following soccer for, I don't know, twenty five ish years since I was about 10. And I remember very distinctly a lot of the World Cup teams, 2002 where they were decent, 2006, like, all these years where they just kind of they always looked like they were hopeful. Like, if anything happened, it was like, oh, we got lucky. This is the first time I've seen a team that's like, they're actually, like, good. You know? And not only that I from, like, a biased perspective, there's a lot of friends and people that I know from around the world, travels, who I message with because they're big into soccer too. And they're like, this US team is different. Like, I've never seen a US team play like a World Cup caliber team that can beat most peep like, teams right now.

Mike DeHaan: [2:36] There's a couple teams that are very, very top. Like, if they get stuck against France or Argentina, they're gonna get outstaged just like everybody else. But they're playing Belgium on Monday, and tell you what, I think that they have a pretty strong chance even though their best forward's gonna be suspended.

Dylan Koch: [2:49] That was that was controversy in and of itself. That's suspension.

Mike DeHaan: [2:53] I know. Dude, it's so dude, like, not biased. Terrible call with the whole red card thing. If you guys missed that, you're not into soccer, I don't care. I'm excited about it. You can fuck off. It's my show. But, yeah, it was like like, there's been so many different iterations of that same tackle for the whole World Cup. And for some reason, that's the one that this referee decided to penalize. You know, there was literally the same tackle. Messi did it in his first game, and they, like, didn't even call it as a foul or review it. I don't know. It's like it's always tricky. Like, they they have this VAR system where they, like, video replay stuff. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I feel like using it for, like, red cards that they've done a handful of times is an abuse of that system. But it is what it is. You know? It's the rules, and they're gonna try to, like, appeal it, but it's not gonna get approved.

Dylan Koch: [3:40] I'm not a huge soccer fan either, but, like, I start to follow in instances like this. So Yeah. It's fun.

Mike DeHaan: [3:45] I mean, it gotta be the bandwagoner. You know? And and, like, also too, there's it's very, very rare for someone like that to literally be in all of our backyards. Right. Know? So Super. Crazy. So if Dan and I go to the game on Monday, it's literally a thirty minute plane ride from us. And it is realistically, I would say, probably the biggest game in US men's soccer history. A 100%.

Dylan Koch: [4:05] So you're going. Right?

Mike DeHaan: [4:07] Yeah. Totally. I'm feeling like a company car. It's

Dan Austin: [4:09] it's So let me and I I haven't done my research on the structure of the World Cup. Tell me how the bracketing works, like, at a high level.

Mike DeHaan: [4:16] So, basically, at this before the World Cup, there's qualifiers all around the world in all the different, like, continents pretty much. Okay? Teams that qualify, they go into, like, all these buckets and then basically based off of FIFA seating. They pull them and they put them all into groups. At the start of the World Cup, everyone's put into groups of four teams. All the teams play each other once. The top one and two teams are guaranteed to go through. This year was the first time that they had more teams. So it was, like, eight of the twelve third place teams in the group gotta go through. And then your next game is basically the top seeds are playing the three seeds, and then the two seeds are playing each other. K. Right? And so then how it works is it's very much like March Madness style where, like, winner takes all in each game and it narrows down. So we just had the round of 32. Well, that's continuing today. Then it'll be round to 16, then quarterfinals, semifinals, finals. That make sense?

Dan Austin: [5:09] Yeah. Yeah. Makes perfect sense. I did I just didn't get the play in part with, like, the the buckets of four teams. That's part I just had to understand that.

Mike DeHaan: [5:16] Yeah. So and, yeah, so basically how it works is they can either win, lose, or draw. And that if they win, they get three points. If they draw, they get one. If they lose, they get zero. Whoever has the most points goes through. And then once you're in, the knockout phase, if you draw, you got extra time. If the extra time is still drawing, you got a penalty shootout.

Dan Austin: [5:33] Makes sense. I'm I'm all in. I like it.

Dylan Koch: [5:35] Who are you who are you I don't have to be wagering, but who do think is gonna win?

Mike DeHaan: [5:40] Mike, specifically. France. France are so good. They look so good. Like, every game, they've been so dominant. I I don't see a situation where they don't win. Like like, none of the other games have even been competitive with them. Well, they've had

Dan Austin: [5:54] 1,200 of their grandparents die, so maybe the team's gonna be sad and

Mike DeHaan: [5:58] What? With all the heat over there? Goddamn.

Dan Austin: [6:01] Saw a funny video on some Somebody was saying,

Mike DeHaan: [6:03] you know, just like Speaking of 1,200 old people dying, it's a funny video.

Dylan Koch: [6:06] Yeah. But No.

Dan Austin: [6:07] It was just like some comedian who was talking about like like how people in France are like, they just die when it gets kind of warm and they're just gonna shit talk in the situation. Was like, damn, that's brutal.

Dylan Koch: [6:17] Well, this has come to light lately. I didn't know HVAC was such a controversial thing for Europeans.

Mike DeHaan: [6:23] So the thing is it's not only HVAC, and this is actually a great real estate transition. So the HVAC isn't common, except we just actually needed it. One of the issues as well through a lot of parts of Europe is a lot of the housing is just super old. And it was built fundamentally to survive the winters because that was in most people normally died. And so what they do is they, like, contain heat. You know, like, they'll really hold in a ton of heat that you've generated, whether it's internal or it's external from the sun basically baking the house. And so, like, there's situations don't know about France, like the full details. But in The UK, there's been documented stuff where, like, outside at nighttime, it's 80 degrees. Inside someone's house, it's like 95. It's literally like an oven, and people are cooking. Because the only thing you can do to cool down is open up all the windows, and then all the insulation and the exterior stuff on the house is holding in all the heat. Right? It is miserable. It sounds miserable.

Dylan Koch: [7:17] I mean

Mike DeHaan: [7:17] And, like, that if you're, like, an old person who's unable to, you know, open your windows or sort of, like, get out and do something, like, yeah, it can be super dangerous. So This seems like a It's a full infrastructure problem.

Dylan Koch: [7:29] Yeah. If you take a 50,000 foot view, it's like, how does this developed country not have modern heating and air? Like that like, it makes I get you what you're saying.

Mike DeHaan: [7:40] But It's because they're they're like, some of these buildings that they live in, especially in these cities, are, like, a thousand years old.

Dan Austin: [7:45] Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. Like, they're just their plumbing alone. Like, they have, like, weird shower setups in Europe because, like, not set up, like but, like, their plumbing a lot of times is, like, external and, like, things like that because, like, they can't just, like, put pipes in concrete buildings. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [7:58] If to you ever London, the Tower Of London, which is like the main castle that sort of like in town that people go to, it was built in, like, 1066. You know? That's so old. And then, like, as you go through, like, a lot of, like, the city, they'll be like, oh, this pub has been around since 1542. That's a long time ago. And that's that's like two hundred years before The United States was founded.

Dan Austin: [8:22] It's like before Clerister of Columbus.

Dylan Koch: [8:24] I was 14 '14. Yeah. 1492. Yeah. It's your history. Right, man?

Dan Austin: [8:28] I was off by, you know, a Mac 100.

Dylan Koch: [8:31] I mean, when I when I see an old building here and like, when that Cincinnati is usually like nineteen twenties to nineteen forties if you're inside the 275 Loop. And it's on boiler heat. And, like, if you're planning this to put a full ductwork, full HVAC system in, I mean, that's $20.30 grand just to do that in and of itself. So

Mike DeHaan: [8:50] I understand. Imagine that with a building that's 800 years old. Yeah. Where like they can't even fathom the concept of plumbing in HVAC when they built that thing.

Dan Austin: [9:01] I've never witnessed it, but I know in Europe too, they have a lot of these like, units they install in their walls or in a window. It's actually like a generator. And then also it is to And it can provide power. And it's like a heater. So it like runs, you know, and then it like it like runs and then it actually heats the homes and stuff. Because like they have all these different unique use cases where we don't really have that in The US because we don't have anything that old that we can't just like poke a hole in the wall or add Sure. HVAC to. There's a lot

Dylan Koch: [9:27] of Yeah.

Dan Austin: [9:28] Yeah, lot of stuff there. So yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:29] Do you think that there's much of like, there it has to exist in some capacity. I've literally never met anyone that does this, like, house flipping in, like, Europe or, like, in other places. It has to happen.

Dylan Koch: [9:40] It has to, but, like yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:42] No. I've heard of that. Like, every country's gonna have their own version of, like, crazy cat ladies with hoarder houses. Yeah. Think houses too.

Dan Austin: [9:50] I think there is some of that, but, like, if my instinct would be accurate, which it always is, is that like, there's a lot more dense populations in like the city areas where they have more like apartment buildings like you're saying, Mike, or like maybe it's a 500 year old building that's been converted to apartments and maybe some other ground floor stuff. There's a lot of there's less, urban sprawl where in America you go to we have the suburbs where you can like go and flip a shitty house, but it's like, if if like land barons or or property owners own these buildings, who's flipping them?

Mike DeHaan: [10:21] And also Property rights. That's Do

Dylan Koch: [10:24] they actually have deeds that transfer? Like, the government doesn't own any of the house? Like, I'm sure they own some of the housing stock, but like don't know

Dan Austin: [10:29] who Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they do, but it's like America's economy is very focused on real estate. That's not the case in other countries.

Mike DeHaan: [10:35] I agree. Well, one of the big things that's different in a lot of places is the mortgage industry is completely different. Right? Like, you you won't see a thirty year fixed mortgage most places outside The United States.

Dan Austin: [10:43] It's because they don't

Dylan Koch: [10:44] have the

Dan Austin: [10:44] US dollar.

Mike DeHaan: [10:45] Yeah. Totally. They don't have mortgage backed securities. Mhmm. Yeah. A lot of them will be carried by banks or private companies. And so typically, it's like a five or ten year adjustable or even like a five or ten year balloon on a loan. And it can be amortized over thirty years, but it's gonna be fixed. Although there's there's some countries that are different. Like, I think it was Italy. They have these, like, fifty year mortgages that you can get, which they call, like, family mortgages. And the whole point is supposed to buy a house with your family and then have it there for, like, couple generations. But, that would influence the ability to buy and sell houses there a little bit just because it's not as flexible. Also too, like, in The UK anyway, homeownership isn't as common. It's just like a lot of people are just like renters, and that's how it works. But to your point about, like, the sprawl, once you get outside of London, you know, and there's some the bigger cities, there's there's, like, small towns and neighborhoods and stuff that are that are not unsimilar from what you see in The United States. You know, people have backyards and they have, like, their garage and they have, like, the full set They're not necessarily modern houses like you'd see here, but they're not, like, completely different. You know? It's not like a land baron. It's not like they have, like, the local rich dude with, like, a a monocle and, a curly mustache that, like, walks through and collects his money from the peasants that live there.

Dan Austin: [11:55] I mean, according to Spain is hotspots for flipping is The Netherlands, Italy, Spain, and The UK. A long standing market for flipping through investors carefully navigate stamp duty and corporate taxes.

Mike DeHaan: [12:10] Yeah. So that's the other thing too is, like, the taxes and, like, the transaction process is really painful. Yeah. So, like, my my a lot of my family is in The UK, and I know that talking to my cousins who have bought houses, it can take, like, six months. Like, once you, like, agree to it and, basically, you work you work with a solicitor. You know, they don't have real estate agents. So basically, you make the offer and then you have a lawyer that does everything. And then once you do have, like, the stamp duty that you pay and you gotta do all this kind of stuff, it takes a long time to get transactions done.

Dan Austin: [12:39] You know what's interesting? I actually, I'm gonna forget who I saw talking about this, but it was just some some dude that was talking shit about real estate, like old guy, like why he hates real estate. And he's like, the transaction costs of real estate are outrageous. And I was like, good point. Because I can go on Robinhood and buy a stock for like basically no cost, right? Yeah. To me. And I could I could now own that asset in real estate. You cannot buy it without a bunch of fricking bottom feeders chipping away at at it with all their fees. You got bro You got real estate fees at 6%, and you got a bunch of people dip their hands in there. Got transaction coordinator fees. You got title fees. You got escrow fees. You have all these fees that just chip away at like

Dylan Koch: [13:15] We had it closing today and the buyer side settlement say like his closing cost part was $20.

Dan Austin: [13:21] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [13:23] Know, that's Blender fees, that's appraisal fees,

Dan Austin: [13:24] that's Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [13:25] Title fees. It's the whole nine yards.

Dan Austin: [13:27] It's 10%. Imagine if you had to buy anything else and they're like, well, we're gonna take 10% of that.

Mike DeHaan: [13:31] Yeah. I mean, it's yeah. It's tricky. Like, I think the advantage is because you can use leverage. Right? So you can buy more than you can actually afford, which I guess technically you can do with stocks, but it's a little bit different to

Dan Austin: [13:43] It's hard.

Dylan Koch: [13:43] You have to have a little bit of size first. Yeah. But yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [13:46] But, like, the average person, you know, can just go and buy a house that they're not gonna be able to afford for the next twenty years if they have to save up the cash than go buy

Dan Austin: [13:54] a house. Yeah. It's just like a whole frustrating thing because I mean, you talk about then your property taxes, then your insurance, then your maintenance. Like it's an expensive endeavor, but that think I that is inherently why you do have to buy it at the right price, which is what Dealpill does over there, getting deals at discounts. You know? I mean, but you got a lot

Mike DeHaan: [14:09] of people. We meet shit,

Dan Austin: [14:10] we're lenders. There's even lender fees. And those fees also aren't just like the lender making a profit. There's fees that the lender has to pay to people and lawyers and all that stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [14:18] Yeah. And that that's always this is a thing that we've discussed recently, which has been kinda funny is we had this borrower. He was he was, like, the worst person I've ever worked with in my life. He just thought he was the smartest yeah. He he was, like, thought he was the smartest dude. He was definitely, like, autistic or something the way that he, like, wrote these manifestos to us about how much we sucked. Yeah. But, like, these rants were just, like, insane. So bad. It's something that you would find, like like you see in, like, a movie where they, like, walk into a house and there's, like, a bunch of shit, like, scribbled on the wall. That's basically how it read. Yeah. But on this on this deal, he was really nitpicky over these, like, really small costs, and he kept calling them junk fees. And this made me sort of realize that, like, I used to think the same thing when I was a borrower, but there is actually a lot of cost that going on the lender's side that you don't fully know. And even like you look at like a processing fee and say, well, that's a junk fee. It's like, no. I gotta pay someone to do that job. Yep. You know? Like like the profit on that, like our total loan fees of, what, 2,100 or whatever they are.

Mike DeHaan: [15:18] Depends on the loan. Like, our actual profit on that's maybe, like, a couple $100. The rest of it's all actually going to third party vendors or to staff or to commissions or something.

Dan Austin: [15:27] Credit inside background check, flood certifications. Yeah. BPOs that we pay for.

Mike DeHaan: [15:34] Yeah. I know. Shit just costs money.

Dylan Koch: [15:35] Think that would be my question. Which one are you guys paying for versus what is are you just passing on to the borrower?

Mike DeHaan: [15:41] So we're passing on to the borrower. Right? But like, we we couldn't like front a $2,100 bill every single time.

Dylan Koch: [15:47] Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Mike DeHaan: [15:49] Yeah. So but they're passing it on. Like, those are those are costs that are lender fees. Like, we are charging it to the lender, but it's not, like, going to our pockets.

Dan Austin: [15:57] Well, and also the other thing to think about from a lender's perspective is, say, we close one loan, but we pulled credit on three or four loans and did background checks and did a BPO, and they never worked out. So we spent $5.06, $700 on three loans before we even closed a single loan. So it's like, it gets like when you're and we're not even I don't think I wanna consider this at scale. But I mean, if you're doing any scale, like you are just costs that just beat you up as a lender. And so it's like, I love it. I used to say the same thing. I was like, these junk fees, junk fees. And now when I hear it, it like makes me like mad. Now I

Dylan Koch: [16:27] feel Be like I gotta go

Dan Austin: [16:29] like, hey dude, I paid for all of this stuff for you. Like, and I'm working my ass off and you are paying a processing fee so you can shit talk to my employee and tell them how bad they suck because they're asking you for your driver's license. Like there's costs associated with that.

Mike DeHaan: [16:43] Mhmm. Yeah. You know? Or even from my title company's perspective, where they'll have all these fees and I don't really know what they're paying for. They have the reports and everything else. What they're ultimately paying for is for when they get things wrong and they lose, and they are now out a bunch of money. And a very real example of this is we talked about on the show, we had this deed theft situation last year where the title company did everything right on their due diligence. We had no idea what was going on. Basically, we had this borrower that had stolen somebody's identity maybe or was representing the actual owner. They went through. Like like, everything cleared. Our buyer roll like, got to the property. Literally, as they rolled up, the actual true owner, quote unquote, rolled up with the police and said, hey. This is our house. What are doing? You guys need to leave. And basically, the lender had gotten it was like a $150,000 stolen. K? Our closer that worked on that, she came to my house to sign docs, the other day for a loan that I got. And I was asking how that went. The title company had to eat that. Right? Because basically they were deemed to be negligent on it. So their insurance didn't pick it up.

Dylan Koch: [17:45] Did they have E and O insurance, I hope? No? It doesn't matter.

Mike DeHaan: [17:48] It doesn't matter though. Because basically they went through all of it and they basically found that through their investigation, whatever it is, that they should have done certain things differently. And so they're they're posting a $100,000 loss to title company on that deal.

Dylan Koch: [18:02] I mean, I would hope that they go after the illicit borrower, but there's no guarantee you're gonna get that money back.

Mike DeHaan: [18:07] Well, who who who are they? Right? Like, like, it was a fake person. But, like, this person had gone as far as like, on the house, they had, like, a HELOC that was under the person's name. They had got they got, like, a HELOC statement. They called the bank to check out it was a real statement. Oh my god. Think this person was a real person. Or or it was somebody that's maybe deceased, and you asked me that was impersonating them.

Dylan Koch: [18:27] Oh. Yeah. That's wild. Right? Just like a 120 year old voters.

Mike DeHaan: [18:31] Yeah. Totally. Exactly. But like she but she she's thinking that the person that rolled up with the cops and this person were in cahoots with each other.

Dan Austin: [18:40] I think they had to have been.

Mike DeHaan: [18:41] They had to have been. Yeah. Because that was like, how they didn't win to it. The timing didn't make any sense.

Dan Austin: [18:46] So crazy. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [18:47] Yeah. You know how the cops probably got on it too.

Dylan Koch: [18:49] Paying them. You know? Yeah. Paying here's $10. Yeah. Dude, that sucks. I mean, I mean, I lost a lot of money from a contractor on my own. Like, he basically ran off with the money and like he would send pictures of work that was being done, but it wasn't the actual property. So like it was my bad for not like actually going and checking on him because he already had my trust from a similar job. But you can't go after someone that doesn't have any money. Right? Like, they he spent

Dan Austin: [19:15] it all.

Mike DeHaan: [19:15] Yeah. What are

Dylan Koch: [19:15] you gonna do? Yeah. So, like, I tried. I tried. I tried.

Mike DeHaan: [19:19] But Dude, yes, you can. I've been using this really awesome website. I've been using Free advertisement called pettylawsuit.com.

Dylan Koch: [19:27] I already I already tried to sue the guy. We went through discovery and all this stuff. He's broke. He doesn't make money.

Mike DeHaan: [19:32] No. You just keep sending him petty lawsuits. It costs $50. You'll eventually get him on something. But, no, I I decided to try it because I I got this I was just like in a mood one day, and I got this unsolicited text message for somebody asking to buy my house. And I was like and and the thing that really pissed me off about it is it wasn't even done well. Like, the dude didn't even fill in in, their little, brassive their rapid texting templates, like my name. So it said, hey there. First name.

Dylan Koch: [20:01] Name? Oh.

Mike DeHaan: [20:01] Yeah. And then I had all this shit. And then also directly before that, about one second earlier, I got a text that said, thank you for subscribing to whatever. So they opted me in. Right? Then they sent me this text. Then they sent me a like, along with a little picture of their face and their company name. And I was like, dumbass. I texted him back. Was like, bro, you gotta figure out your your mapping on your texting software. Like, just so you know too, like, the TCPA laws, you're gonna get slapped $1,500 for every violation that you have on these things. And he kinda got back, and he was like, oh, yeah. Thanks, ma'am. Just learning. Whatever. And I was like, fuck you. Like, I it just really pissed me off, so I sent him a petty lawsuit for a thousand dollars. And he's been getting harassed daily by whoever they use to call him, trying to collect this money. And I don't know. Hopefully, I'll scare him enough to either do it correctly or, like, do real marketing and not just be a freaky

Dylan Koch: [20:51] I want an update on this in two weeks whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [20:54] Yeah. So so right now, I have 13 left on it, before it gives me the ability to file it with the court directly, which I guess they prepare the case. But it's really funny because I I can, like, listen to the transcripts of him talking to, the lady. I'm like, this is this is really great if you're, like, a passive aggressive person.

Dylan Koch: [21:11] You know what else frustrating me with the whole wholesale industry there today? There's well, two things. The first one is some of the one of the companies here sent out a deal, and they had, like, you know, asking price at the bottom. And I knew the house. I knew the area. I'd already been in it before. So I called him. I was like, I'll buy it right now. Send the money. Send the MD. I'll buy it right now. And he was like, oh, man. We've been getting blown up. I'm gonna have to do the walkthrough on this. And so they ended up doing a walkthrough. I got outbid by a lot of money because they underpriced the deal. And I guess my point in this is don't have an asking price if you're going do this. Say it's a starting price or something.

Mike DeHaan: [21:50] Yeah. Like or Or you never know, though. Because you can also be like the sleazy home buyer here in town who allegedly, allegedly from multiple people, will have, like, multiple fake buyers that will chime in. Like, he'll he will this Have his own employees sometimes? Yeah. This company will have his employees, their employees jump in on like group text and say like, hey, I'm just gonna let you guys talk about what you're each willing to pay for this deal. You pretend like they're a different buyer to like

Dan Austin: [22:20] just Which is a a wild thing buyer they have. Which is a wild thing to do. Yeah. Besides having it be your employee, it's a wild situation to be like, why don't you guys duke it out? Just tell me what price I'm gonna get. Like that's just crazy. Then when that other person is your employee, that's just unethical.

Mike DeHaan: [22:36] Yeah. He's been doing that forever. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [22:38] But I mean, I guess my point being, have a buy it now price on there. Right? Like instead of doing other Now, if that happens enough, your good buyer is just going get fatigued. Right? I'm I'm just not doing this. I'm gonna do all the work and I'm never gonna be able to purchase anything. It's gonna be annoying. So

Dan Austin: [22:53] Yeah. Most people most good people will be like, you know, I'm just not gonna do business with you. Even if you throw a good deal over here, I'm not gonna do it based on principle. There's a few spineless people, Mike and I know a few that'll be like, well, you know, I mean, they maybe they ripped me off a few times, but But can make $5 on this one.

Mike DeHaan: [23:09] Totally. But what I'm still gonna go to lunch with them, you know.

Dan Austin: [23:12] Weird to be friends

Mike DeHaan: [23:13] like I never I don't

Dylan Koch: [23:14] get it. I don't get that at all either.

Mike DeHaan: [23:15] Yeah. But it's it's

Dan Austin: [23:17] gotta have principles, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [23:18] It's like having a ex partner that, like, beats you up, and then you just like, well, you know, they're okay. They they can still watch my kids, you know. I'm like, like,

Dan Austin: [23:27] No. What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [23:29] Does make any sense?

Dylan Koch: [23:30] And like, we I'm trying to buy a house from a a divorced couple right now. And the one the one lady is just like ripping on the husband. I mean, he's he's the one that's not signed a contract. And it's like, he's such a loser even in college. Like, he wouldn't x y z. Was like, in my back of my mind, I'm like, if you're saying all this stuff and you knew that, why'd you marry him? But like, you know, I don't know.

Mike DeHaan: [23:52] I know.

Dylan Koch: [23:53] The second thing I wanted to relate to the wholesaling that's, I don't know, frustrating lately or a good topic of discussion is Cam Kathgar, our mutual friend, posted a rant on Instagram the other day about someone locking up a deal way too high. And then it was for 500 ks, retrading it at the last minute down to $3.80 ks, 100 and And 20 ks price while they're offering a lot of other offers around the low 300s. So the question is, is it unethical because you obviously were never going to buy at 500. You just did it so you could get the contract and then hopefully the seller's committed. Or the other side of that same token is the seller, I guess, is still getting the most money he would have got. Like, let's say, call an $80,000 difference. So is that in the seller's still the best interest?

Mike DeHaan: [24:44] Then Of course, it's unethical because you're lying to Right. Put yourself in an advantageous position.

Dan Austin: [24:49] I think regardless it's unethical because you're doing something with a lack of with with ignorance and a lack of experience. I think there's some ethics of what you should be doing if you don't have the knowledge to do it. Well, even that's that coin, it's

Dylan Koch: [25:01] Yeah. But, I mean, I don't think that was ignorance in this regard.

Mike DeHaan: [25:03] I think

Dan Austin: [25:03] it's I don't think so.

Dylan Koch: [25:04] I don't

Dan Austin: [25:04] think so. But we've seen every newbie wholesaler do dumb shit like that all the time.

Mike DeHaan: [25:09] Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I like I I would say just because the end result is someone getting the best offer or whatever, if it's done through a way of deception, I would say that's mostly chance that it ended up Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [25:21] That's a lot. That's a good point.

Mike DeHaan: [25:22] Yeah. Like, that's that's luck. Most of the times, you get a situation that ends up significantly worse.

Dan Austin: [25:28] Also, buyer did they lie to to pay $50 more than the other buyers? Right?

Dylan Koch: [25:33] Yeah. That's what that is. So you need That probably won't be a repeat buyer because they're gonna lose their ass Exactly. On this So

Mike DeHaan: [25:39] like, if you have to use deception to get business, it's bad business. You know? That's but that's also the problem of just, like, the world as a whole right now is I feel like every sort of industry has some level of deception to try and, like, get your money. Mhmm. You know? Like, whether it's the roofing company or, like especially, like, all, like, the hard sales. We got roofing. We got the bug treatment people. We got the fucking solar panels. Like, one of the last times a solar panel dude came to my house, which is laughable, people who solar panels in Washington state. He literally came and he goes, woah. So you haven't heard about how they're making a vista shut down the dams? I'm like, what the fuck are you saying, dude? I'm like, I like, no. I was like, I used to work at that utility. That's an idiotic thing to say.

Dan Austin: [26:21] That's so stupid.

Mike DeHaan: [26:22] Yeah. You

Dan Austin: [26:22] know, it's like Bad sales tactics.

Mike DeHaan: [26:24] Just just like making up stuff. Or or or like they always come around with, like, the like the bug stuff and they're always like, woah. I noticed up here you have like a start of an infestation of of wild field crickets. I don't if you ever heard of those. They're a big problem up here. Like, it's just so stupid.

Dylan Koch: [26:41] I don't know. And it just seems more and more blatant out of the circles, but even people like bragging about it, it seems on social media circles. Like, I I don't I don't don't

Mike DeHaan: [26:51] think Well well, so there's this this thing going on right now. And I think it's the it it's it's I I'll say it's iconic. It's like the representation of the wealth gap really growing is you have this new they call it, like, the new money that isn't like that rich, but they now feel the separation from the people that they know that can't afford shit. And they're very proud of themselves. So a good example of this, I saw recently, I was just in Maui last week. There's this little area we step in Kannapali where, like, all the hotels are. It's where, like, 90% people go to Maui stay. There's this little village called, like, Whaler's Village. You know? It used to be, like, kinda local stores. You had some restaurants. Now it's all, like, Dolce and Gabbana and, like like, fancy stuff. And we would go down there for dinner. Traditionally, in the past, it was, like, family. It's kinda chill. This is the first year I've been going there since I was a kid, my my parents' time share. Sorry. I don't have like a I'm poor story when I grew up. My parents had a time share in Maui. We would go on vacation. But first time I've ever yeah. It was nice.

Dylan Koch: [27:52] I've always time shares are terrible investments. But we'll we'll

Mike DeHaan: [27:55] They they are terrible investments for sure. I if you want, I can mathematically go through that with my parents. I'm working with them on their estate stuff, and, like, I've seen the numbers. You're like, oh shit. Yeah. But so anyways, we go down to this village. The first time ever, for some reason, you're in this, like, funky little place where there's, like, kinda local bar and grill style restaurants. There are people that are done up to the nines to go out in Maui. Right? And so they're they're, like, got their $400 handbag. They got full makeup. They got their dresses. They got, like, the heels. There's dudes that are wearing, like, chains, like, gold, like, fucking this stuff that doesn't make any sense. I'm like, who are these people? Yeah. Who took them out of Miami and brought them to Maui? And they're they're explicitly there to be seen.

Dylan Koch: [28:36] Yeah. To show off what whatever phantom wealth they have.

Mike DeHaan: [28:40] Yeah. And I I spent a lot of time in talking with my wife about this. We're out there with some friends about, like, what is that? And ultimately, think what I've landed on is you you have these people that are doing fine. I won't say they're doing well. They're doing fine in this period of time where there's so much talk around affordability and inflation. Here's how bad things are. And they're like, oh, I don't feel that. So I'm the fucking king. And they wanna make sure that everyone around them knows that. You know? And it yeah. It's just like a really sort of weird dynamic.

Dylan Koch: [29:10] I am shocked. Get So much people frame all of not not just their success and stuff, but almost anything without quantitative numbers. It's all qualitative of how they All qualitative. Totally. There's not like, you could look up Federal Reserve data of like, okay. I'm I'm this age. I'm this demographic. I could be in this tax bracket by net worth or percentage of net worth. Like, you could look all that stuff up if you want a real gauge, but like, it's just how much money is in my account and how much can I spend and look affluent?

Mike DeHaan: [29:41] Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a lot of psychology to that. Right? There's the old saying that you buy the hype, sell the news. If you learn to leverage that social view or that psychological confidence that a lot of people have, and you understand how it works from like a a larger mentality amongst the population, that's easy to manipulate. I mean, that's like what It's like lot of big companies

Dylan Koch: [30:02] real estate guru personalities. Totally.

Dan Austin: [30:06] So it's interesting perspective because it feels it seems like a lot of that and like what you're talking about is people willing the people's willingness to spend money and show off their money. And I don't necessarily they don't all have to be showing it off. Maybe some people just like they love to look nice. Like that's their thing. And that's how you I don't know. Maybe. Right? But like how they spend their money is correlated to how much more they think will come in the future. Mhmm. You know what mean? Yeah. If you if you have a well established net worth and and a lot of money too, like you feel comfortable. Say you're a retired person, you did well for yourself, and you got a nice nest egg, and you're you're going to release some of that cash into the market because you feel good about what you've had and you feel good about your future runway. Same thing goes for younger people who are spending money is it's indicative of like how much more they think will come. And a lot of times they are not There's no data behind that. And that's like the American economy right now is it's like doing really, really well compared to the rest of the world. For some reason, and I don't I don't know. I know a lot of AI spend has been in there. By chance, I can't remember who somebody everybody can like tell me who I'm quoting because I always forget who it was. But recently it was saying that by chance, corporate companies in America were able to absorb the additional cost of the tariffs.

Dan Austin: [31:20] So it wasn't really passed on to the American population by no doing of like planning. It's just because like that's kinda luck how it worked out with where these corporate companies were with the growth they saw with AI and all that stuff. And implementing AI, meaning how they were able to save money. So it's an interesting perspective. And so it's like, it's just kinda how you feel is how how you spend your money.

Mike DeHaan: [31:44] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [31:45] Well And there's no logic behind it.

Mike DeHaan: [31:47] Yeah. I mean, I think I think that is valid point where, like, people are think spending it based on what the thing's gonna come in the future. That's why you see a lot of these, you know, athletes, like, big name people that have these incredible earnings in a short period of time and they lose it all. You know, as they don't understand, like, things are finite. And Yeah. Just because you've done something right now doesn't mean you're doing to the future, and the debts do pile up, and they end up do like, costing you more money because of interest and fees and

Dan Austin: [32:13] everything else. You peaking right now earning wise, and and it won't be like this forever? I think there's some of that too where people forget, like, I you don't know when you're peaking. You might peak as as an athlete. Like, that's a big thing.

Mike DeHaan: [32:24] Yeah. And I and I've also too, what is that splurge you're spending your money on compared to your actual income and net worth that is booked for, like, today?

Dan Austin: [32:32] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [32:33] Right? Because I think that's a lot of thing too is, to your point, they spend their future earnings not the money they actually have, like, right now. Yep. Yep. And that's Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [32:39] You know,

Dan Austin: [32:39] just pass by I'll get more. My my pay is gonna increase. I'm gonna do so much better. And I I love the optimism.

Mike DeHaan: [32:45] Well, I was gonna say wish I

Dylan Koch: [32:45] had that confidence. In wholesaling, I'm like, am I gonna go broke? Like

Dan Austin: [32:49] Every every week,

Mike DeHaan: [32:51] In that business, Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [32:53] It's like, oh, my credit card bills, my used to be my actual salary. So Yeah. Like, it's just it's the cat like we talked about, cash conversion, like with this business and real estate in general

Dan Austin: [33:03] is is a lot. Yeah. And and I I think this is where I I've where I have my mind has been is like and I've is that I don't think that logic necessarily prevails when it comes to economic growth all the time when you're looking at it purely from, like, The United States economy, which you can choose to invest in, whether that economy is in real estate or the economy is in stocks and bonds and other companies, like, it doesn't have to be logical and it could go up and you could make money. You can't necessarily fall on mat. And and we're living that right now. And that's kinda where I'm like, well, it's not saying that it's going down. There is that old British dude that I've seen on the news recently talking about how the American economy is gonna go down by 70% or something like that.

Mike DeHaan: [33:45] Mean, I'm

Dylan Koch: [33:45] just guessing that.

Dan Austin: [33:47] I don't know. He's like a billionaire He's from he's from Europe. He doesn't know shit. They need to have air conditioning over there, dude.

Dylan Koch: [33:55] Yeah. Daniel. Who's he?

Mike DeHaan: [33:56] Who's he? Who's he? Yeah. He was smart, he would have fixed that problem so they're not all dying of heat stroke in their homes.

Dylan Koch: [34:03] Thanks for saying it all for us, Mike. Yeah. But,

Dan Austin: [34:07] you know, like, I it's just sometimes it's not logical.

Dylan Koch: [34:10] No. I mean, and I I just looked it up. So it was Daniel Kahneman won the 2002 Nobel Prize in economics for basically introducing how do say it? Like, psych psychological factors into the world. Like, basically, if people feel richer, they spend more money, which then is a feedback loop in and of itself.

Dan Austin: [34:30] Right. Yeah. And I think in that in that sense, it's almost like a pyramid scheme where if there's nothing that if nothing takes your knees out, like if people are always willing to come in at the bottom of the pyramid and keep feeding it, it doesn't necessarily have to go to zero.

Mike DeHaan: [34:44] Yeah. Well, it's funny, like, now that you say that. Because there's, like, little things that exist that are designed to make you feel richer so that you get more products. And one of the things that's very relevant to us is how many people are super heavy into these, like, Credit Karma or, like, these different, like, credit reporting apps and then are shocked when we pull their real credit report and it comes back significantly lower. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's like, now that I think about it, it's actually really interesting because what those companies do, freecreditreport.com, they go and you pull and they say, you have 800 credit. You're like, fuck. Yeah. I'm awesome. They go, you'll probably get approved for this platinum card. Oh, yeah. Right. Which is their sponsored

Dylan Koch: [35:21] at Which

Mike DeHaan: [35:22] is their sponsored. Yeah. So so they make a commission, and then they go and they pull their credit with us. I'm like, you're actually at, seven zero two, bro. And they're like, no way. Here's what my app says. I'm like, that app is gonna show you the highest possible thing on the most fringe credit bureau you could think of. Yeah. Because they want you to click on their ads. That's a great point. And they want you to spend more money.

Dan Austin: [35:41] That's good.

Mike DeHaan: [35:42] I Everything's a lie. Goddamn.

Dan Austin: [35:44] Everything is a lie. It's a pyramid scheme. Just get towards the top. That's the goal.

Mike DeHaan: [35:48] Yeah. Right. So cool. Well, anyways, interesting conversation today, guys. Anything else to wrap up before we go? USA. USA. I'll look at tickets right after this, Dan.

Dylan Koch: [36:01] I'm gonna see they do.

Mike DeHaan: [36:03] It's probably it's gonna be expensive, just so you know. I bet we end up spending close to $9,000 to go. Fuck

Dan Austin: [36:09] off, dude. Seriously? For a ticket?

Mike DeHaan: [36:12] In a lifetime. When's no. No. It's gonna be for both for for both of us plus flights.

Dylan Koch: [36:17] Goddamn. That's It's a business expense. Come on. It's a write off.

Dan Austin: [36:21] Yeah. But but the business expense is also my income.

Mike DeHaan: [36:28] And we were literally just talking about, you know, you can't count on the future money. So Dan, you better go listen to your bank account

Dan Austin: [36:33] and see if you

Mike DeHaan: [36:33] can afford it right now.

Dan Austin: [36:34] Otherwise Jesus. Yeah. Can I afford this yesterday?

Dylan Koch: [36:37] I don't think you can earn out those tickets. Maybe.

Dan Austin: [36:41] It's America, dude. You can do

Mike DeHaan: [36:42] a lot of things. Oh, actually, you can. I look you can, you can use Affirm to, get them, and it was, like, $200 a month for, I think, thirty six months or something.

Dan Austin: [36:50] That's not bad, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [36:52] It was it was only 18% interest.

Dan Austin: [36:54] I can finance that. Money in the pocket.

Dylan Koch: [36:56] I'll make

Dan Austin: [36:57] more I'll make more back in the market by keeping that money deployed.

Mike DeHaan: [37:00] It's true. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah. I'm just gonna just put it all in some meme stock. What's what's the next meme stock I should put it in so that I can recover my Clarna money?

Dylan Koch: [37:09] Yeah. That I don't know. I don't follow that shit.

Mike DeHaan: [37:12] Yeah. Just follows he just follows real things like Bitcoin. Exactly. Anyways, alright, guys. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you guys next week.

Dan Austin: [37:20] Come on,

Mike DeHaan: [37:20] dude. Bitcoin. This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which, if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore invest. Dan is at investor man.

Mike DeHaan: [38:25] Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose to follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.