Dylan Replaced His Lead Manager With AI, Should You?

Mike DeHaan: [0:01] And the problem with it, every time that there's, you know, any sort of election, you will always start to see more and more stuff like that because what they're trying to do is, you know, set a message. Like, the the news sources are deliberately doing that, trying to sway things one way or the other or just to cause fear, cause outrage. Because also, like, your algorithm's gonna be completely different from other people's algorithm, like, getting exposed to.

Dylan Koch: [0:24] Even if me and my wife and I are on the couch

Dan Austin: [0:26] On the same topic.

Dylan Koch: [0:27] Like, even though, like, we're scrolling, like, she's got her Facebook or Instagram or whatever, I got mine. Two polar opposite, like, feeds of what's gonna... What you're seeing.

Mike DeHaan: [0:36] It's because she's

Dan Austin: [0:36] a white woman. She needs to get that white woman information so she can feel good. That white woman empathy.

Mike DeHaan: [0:42] Nothing will show you that more. You know, we're all relatively well socialized in the way that we have, like, connections that are across the country from the different real estate groups and stuff that we've been in. Next time you have, like, somebody that you know that's from, like, Central Florida post something that's a political thing, nothing represents, like, that that difference in what people get exposed to more than looking at the comment sections of those people's posts.

Dylan Koch: [1:07] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [1:07] Like, not even necessarily that person's post, but look at all the people that are choosing to comment on it and the stuff that they are choosing to voice and believe. And this is on both sides. This is your friend from Seattle, your friend from Central Florida, whatever it is. You will be like, oh, you're talking about the exact same story with zero of the facts from either side. Mhmm. And also probably none of it's true, and it's all overblown. So it's completely freaking pointless.

Dan Austin: [1:29] Yeah. Exactly. It's all garbage. It's all garbage.

Mike DeHaan: [1:32] What's going on, guys? Welcome to collecting keys. Mike DeHaan here with Dan Austin and Dylan Cook. And starting with geopolitical talk today.

Dan Austin: [1:40] Collecting political points of views. So you get ready for

Mike DeHaan: [1:44] the election here in, a month. And so it's just constant.

Dan Austin: [1:49] Get out and vote. Get out and vote, bud.

Mike DeHaan: [1:52] Everyone should vote. Like, I've always been the believer that if you're gonna complain about anything, you gotta at least vote. Otherwise, you don't have the right to complain. That's what my parents always said when I was growing up.

Dan Austin: [2:03] You definitely can't complain publicly if you are not actually gonna vote. However, back to the empathy discussion we had pre show, I'm putting myself in those people's shoes. And it doesn't really matter sometimes if you vote because the politicians do the exact thing that they wanna do, which is to ingratiate themselves.

Mike DeHaan: [2:18] Of course. You know? And even if they do fall like a legal process, there's a lot of ways they can get around all the votes and stuff that that you put in for the different bills, different laws. What was the one that we had in Spokane recently? I can't remember. There's something that we all very specifically voted yes for on one of the bills, and then the city was just like, no. They, like, found a way to get around it. Was it the county?

Dan Austin: [2:41] I don't know in the city, but I I know in Washington I know in Washington state, they had the where the legislature outlawed natural gas and then the public, because it got on the ballot, enough people were like, nah, we kind of want that. And so then the people voted to keep natural gas and then the legislators like, nah, we're good. We're still gonna outlot.

Mike DeHaan: [3:01] Yeah. I remember that. That was a little while ago. I think it was honestly around like the homeless where we overwhelmingly in Spokane voted against a lot of the, the renewal of the homeless shelters and those kinds of things downtown. It was like across the board. People were like, no, get rid of that. Then the city government decided that they weren't going to do that. And instead they like reformed a lot of the existing programs, trying to make them better. And wouldn't you know, still the same fucking problem.

Dan Austin: [3:26] Yeah. You know what's weird is if you actually allow nonprofits in quotations, I would call them like profitable for the employees and executives of them. They're letting them buy up all the awesome real estate downtown. Wouldn't you know, homeless people hang out downtown.

Dylan Koch: [3:41] Right. Yeah. Wouldn't you know?

Mike DeHaan: [3:43] I know. Well, whole Catholic Charities Group, which I don't know if that's a national group or if that's just here.

Dan Austin: [3:48] I think it's a national group, and they are not associated with the Catholic the Catholic church.

Mike DeHaan: [3:51] Catholic church at all. Yeah. They're called Catholic Charities. But the guy that once run... Runs the one in Spokane, because they have to... It's a nonprofit. They have to publicly report all their financials. He pulls a million dollar a year salary off of that. And where most of their revenue comes from is money from the city and from the state for, you know, homeless resources. They're... They don't provide the vast majority of them. And the revenue, like, goes up, but there's still just, like, people, like, on the streets directly outside, and they intentionally do things that it feels like damage the surrounding area where they'll be like, oh, we are closed from three to 6PM for cleaning. And so what happens is all the people, like, wander out into the streets around the restaurants when everyone's trying to go to dinner. Right? It's a ridiculous sort of scenario. And the guy makes so much money. Homeless industrial complex.

Dylan Koch: [4:40] The irony for like the people here in nonprofit, they assume that the whatever the entity is doesn't make money. It just means that they have to declare that their operations aren't for money making purposes. But the guy can still make a million dollars a year. Like he's still making that. Yeah. The people that work there can still

Dan Austin: [4:56] make a pile of money. Right? Because yeah, think the-

Dylan Koch: [4:58] But it's a nonprofit.

Dan Austin: [5:00] The first page, like if you look at Catholic Charities of Spokane, yeah, like the first like page, when you're going through the employee salaries, I don't think there's anybody below like 400,000.

Dylan Koch: [5:08] Probably. That's crazy. Yeah. Which is cool. I've looked at it.

Dan Austin: [5:11] Like I, I've, I specifically, because I like, this is crazy. Did some research on it. It's like pretty crazy. Not that they shouldn't have people making decent money, but I always have this strong belief that if you are truly doing charity, just do it for free. Because, and people

Dylan Koch: [5:24] are like, well, how are you going to get the best of the best? I'm like, the best of

Dan Austin: [5:26] the best are sitting on boards of Amazon. They're sitting on boards of Microsoft. They're sitting on your local boards. So if you're the CEO of a company, go pick CEO of whatever company, thousand employees plus 2,000 employees. I guarantee you they're sitting on at least five to 10 other boards, whether they're personal boards for their personal stuff or other companies, and they're getting paid to sit on those boards. Yep. You don't tell me that they don't have time to give a little bit to a board of a charity. You still need employees and maybe have to compensate employees, but you don't need executives making multiple, multiple 7 figures.

Mike DeHaan: [5:58] No. Not at all. I mean, and the best, the best too, to your point, those people, if they're really like the top of the top, they'll probably have staff that they will pay out of pocket to do the things that need to be done. And that is part of their charitable giving for that.

Dan Austin: [6:12] 100%, Yeah. And that's fair.

Dylan Koch: [6:15] I think

Dan Austin: [6:15] that's a way... A capitalist mindset right there.

Mike DeHaan: [6:17] Yeah. There is like a whole thing around like capitalist giving, which is interesting. But a lot of people don't believe that that's a real thing. So after the after the fires here, my wife and I, we started a nonprofit to basically give out micro grants for people that lost more than we did.

Dan Austin: [6:32] What... Hey. What do you pay yourself? What's what's the executive salary

Dylan Koch: [6:35] on that?

Mike DeHaan: [6:35] Zero. I am I am at this point negative thousands and thousands of dollars into this between donations and just like the costs I've I've paid for. I will never recover that money. I do not care.

Dan Austin: [6:45] Wasn't your intention.

Mike DeHaan: [6:46] But when I first started promoting our nonprofit, which, you know, and it's not big by any means. We have four volunteer people on the board. And so far, we've raised, $8,000 that we've given out every single dollar of it. Right? When I first started promoting it, the fact that I am a public facing business person is, I think especially because I'm tied to real estate and finance, which tends to have a lot of sneaky people.

Dylan Koch: [7:08] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [7:09] The amount of flack and skepticism that I was met with was actually crazy.

Dylan Koch: [7:15] Mhmm.

Mike DeHaan: [7:15] Right? Where a lot of people were certain that I was trying to put together some grift to take advantage of the fire situation so that I could make money.

Dan Austin: [7:24] Because that's what everybody's used to.

Mike DeHaan: [7:25] I know. And I'm like, that's a freaking shame. I... That's not the truth at all. Also too, like... And I always explain to people, was like, I make plenty of money doing what I'm doing. I don't need to like come and like prey on this whole situation. Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. But to your point, that's what everyone's used to. Right? And people like will not believe that that is the case. If you prove to them that that's not the case, they still just like, I don't know. You just haven't gotten to your dark intentions at the end of it yet.

Dylan Koch: [7:51] Yeah. There's a... I forget where it is. I think there's a website that says like the amount of money that charities, charities bring in versus how much go to the things that they say that they're raising money for. That's crazy. And like Yeah. A I think Wounded Warrior Foundation are one of them, like a big one. It's in those... The percentages are like less than 20%. Like where is 80% of the money going? Like, it's it's crazy.

Dan Austin: [8:12] Yeah. I researched this quite a bit because like when I was, you know, not too fresh out of military, maybe fresh out of college, like I was looking at some, like starting some veterans, nonprofit type stuff. I was looking into quite, I still have like an idea and a concept that I want to implement. And one day I will when I have time. But I started doing a lot of that research on it and it turned me off so bad that I don't typically give to charities, especially veterans organizations, because there's a couple camps in the veterans organizations. One, it's exact wounded warrior foundation is exactly what it is. They throw these big multi 7 figure parties for their employees. Their executives are making 7 figures. Most of that money that people are donating, is getting used up for more donation. Advertisements getting used up for salaries and very few go to the veterans. Then on the other extreme of that is you have these smaller veterans organizations, which are ran by other veterans, which are just reduced to go get free hunting trips free climbs And on they're cool, like in the sense, but they're just like individuals raising money. So they get to do all the cool shit that they want to do. And I'm like, don't want to give you money so you can go do cool epic shit. Are sure you're taking some of your buddies that are also veterans? I want to do cool, epic shit too.

Dan Austin: [9:18] Like, why would I give you money? I'll just pay for myself to do it. You know what I mean? And so like, those are like, to me, the two extremes I found in some of these nonprofits and generally speaking, very few of them end up being like what you're doing. Like, it's like, just, I'm just trying to do this, right? To have the goodest heart. And the problem is, is the people that get all the attention are the the ones that are spending money. Like, because they're professional they're professional fundraisers.

Mike DeHaan: [9:39] Mhmm. Yeah. That's like everything else. It'd be interesting to actually see like the percentage of nonprofits that are like that versus ones that are valid, Because I would imagine it's a very minor number of them versus the ones that actually do good stuff that unfortunately get overshadowed.

Dylan Koch: [9:53] Notice go be GP is in a syndication, and then they'll raise money that way.

Mike DeHaan: [9:57] Yeah. Right. There you go.

Dan Austin: [9:58] There you go. They... They'd probably be pretty good at it, but they can't prey on people's like, hey, we're not gonna give you any return on investment. We just need you to give us money.

Mike DeHaan: [10:05] Yeah, right. That's why they have like the, the galas and the different stuff that they do to disguise the fundraising. And they don't tell them that we're paying the gala organizers a million dollars, but, hey. We raised 1.1, so that's pretty cool.

Dylan Koch: [10:18] Totally. Yeah. Anyways.

Mike DeHaan: [10:22] Cool. Well, what else is going on, guys? The... It's funny. I went through Claude to say like, woah. What has done well for us past week? Everyone was like, you should talk about AI more. That's what he kept saying. All those reels keep hitting. But I think we've kind of beat the AI? Drum on that pretty hard. And the stuff we've been building and everything else This

Dan Austin: [10:37] AI has been produced by AI.

Mike DeHaan: [10:39] Yeah. Right. We're actually all AI people at this point. That actually would be interesting. I should see if I can take a bunch of our episodes and have it create like an AI episode. Well, I know I can, but I wanna see if I can release it and if anyone will notice.

Dan Austin: [10:52] Oh, that's actually... You should do that because

Dylan Koch: [10:54] Make sure it has no guardrails because I want it to know what Oh god. Problem

Mike DeHaan: [11:01] is they would have to record all the pre show stuff to be able to know Dan's reels.

Dylan Koch: [11:04] Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

Dan Austin: [11:06] That's what we know we needed to do. We need a Patreon so they can get pre show talk. Patreon? Yeah. Please DM us. It's 99¢ a month if you want a Patreon 90¢

Mike DeHaan: [11:17] a month. God. It's probably like less than Patreon actually charges.

Dan Austin: [11:22] It probably charges. Yeah. We're getting a paywall.

Mike DeHaan: [11:25] This was... Was gonna say, sometime between now and episode five fifty, I'll release an entirely AI episode. And if anyone can guess which one it is, I'll I'll send you $500.

Dylan Koch: [11:35] Hey. I love that. Also Can I be in? Sick? Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [11:39] What would be sick

Dan Austin: [11:40] too is like, if one of us is out, we could just have like an AI version of that person with us.

Mike DeHaan: [11:45] That actually is a good idea. That would be cool. Yeah. We're not getting far away from that sort of stuff though, honestly, dude. It's crazy.

Dylan Koch: [11:51] I will say, like, people... Some of the things you talked about too is, like, what's actually working, especially in this tough environment. I was able to get Claude with Ari Simply, and I learned that the browser you use matters. And like... So I had to go to Google Chrome, download the Ari Simply extension, and that gave Claude a lot further capability. Like, it could do more stuff for me than other stuff could.

Mike DeHaan: [12:16] The Claude extension you're talking about?

Dylan Koch: [12:17] Yeah. Correct.

Mike DeHaan: [12:18] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [12:20] Because of that, like, I basically was able to like talk to Claude, say, Hey, I want to build automations that say, if it's a new lead, we follow-up twice a day with these SMS templates. And then once this happens, you know, kill the automation, send it over to Connor, tag him, yada yada yada. I could go on and on. But it is able to do all of this pretty simply. And I was like, this is actually pretty cool.

Mike DeHaan: [12:40] It's crazy. Yeah. You're gonna be like me here, dude, soon, dude. You're gonna be fucking hooked doing all kinds of stuff.

Dylan Koch: [12:45] Well, and then, of course, your mind doesn't shut off. Like, what else could you can do? But Yeah. Totally. Point being in all of that is I did let go of my lead manager, like, kind of for this. And, like, so

Mike DeHaan: [12:53] Oh, man. You... You're the you're the first one of us to fire someone because of AI. I would never

Dan Austin: [12:58] do that. Part the problem. You are part of the problem.

Dylan Koch: [13:01] I think, to be fair, it was writing on the wall already because I think she got another job and she's trying to do two jobs at once.

Dan Austin: [13:06] That does happen. Yeah, that does happen.

Dylan Koch: [13:08] Yeah. No, because like her call volume was dropping down significantly and like a number of new leads, etcetera. She

Dan Austin: [13:13] probably hated working for you because your capitalist pig

Dylan Koch: [13:15] and then you fired her. Just looking for a

Dan Austin: [13:19] new job.

Dylan Koch: [13:20] Well, my point I'm trying to get across through all this without Dan's comments is, you know, so we lowered the overhead for the business $11.1200 a month. Yeah. And, That's you know, hopefully it'll be more streamlined. The only thing that got taken away is we would do calls and texts. Obviously, I'm not having AI make calls, so it's only text at this point. But we're only really filtering the highly motivated or high spread leads at this point. So it's like Conor, my AM can handle most of that.

Dan Austin: [13:46] Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty slick. You're to

Mike DeHaan: [13:47] move away from Ari simply entirely? They have an open API, you can pull all that data.

Dylan Koch: [13:52] I've thought about it. And the guy I was sharing all of it with is, and he's going to Salesforce. And I guess there's different templates you can do on Salesforce.

Mike DeHaan: [14:01] Salesforce? What is this? 2,000

Dan Austin: [14:03] That's 5 expensive though, dude. It you is have another Salesforce build. Do they still have Salesforce like implementers or can you do that now with Claude? Like, hey, just build me a Salesforce.

Dylan Koch: [14:13] He's working with an implementer, but they, mean, does 10 to 15 deals a month. I do like four to six. So I don't think I need a Salesforce.

Mike DeHaan: [14:20] No, you won't ever need a Salesforce. You will regret that five year contract you fricking signs over there.

Dan Austin: [14:26] It's so expensive. Yeah. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [14:29] Well, so I don't know what I'm going do yet. Right now it's definitely better. It's working.

Dan Austin: [14:34] I don't know why you want it to be honest. Like after seeing what we can have with our custom build, like in our, just our business, because it's very similar to like a CRM, the way it operates, but like, it's so simple.

Dylan Koch: [14:45] The only thing I can't figure out, Dan, is the 10 DLC stuff. Like that's the only thing that's holding me up.

Dan Austin: [14:49] You don't need to. Just pipe it in. We have... Just pipe it in from another third party caller. A third party call system.

Mike DeHaan: [14:55] Just do it through JustCall. Okay.

Dylan Koch: [14:56] Well, I haven't figured that out yet.

Mike DeHaan: [14:57] It's so easy, dude. Just do it through JustCall. It took me twenty minutes. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [15:02] You could totally integrate that. I could beat that dead horse. But just like everything else, like when you look at it, it's so simple. Like I know what you use your CRM for, I can envision how simple it is. Like you need very minimal doc storage, but you need some doc storage. You want a CRM that's probably Kanban style that you can move things through different phases, which you can now customize to be exactly like your business. And then on the cards, you can have it exactly what you want it to say instead of what Ari simply shows you. You can have it what Dylan wants to say. Then you could customize it so quickly and so easily. Yeah. And you don't need it to connect to a lot of different things outside of the system.

Mike DeHaan: [15:34] Yeah. Bro, you could even have it look at, like find the borrower name, look them up on social media and then give them a nickname. That'd be on your card. You can be like, Hey, is this Blade?

Dylan Koch: [15:44] You know?

Dan Austin: [15:44] Because you

Mike DeHaan: [15:45] saw that that would be a cool name for the borrower or the seller.

Dylan Koch: [15:50] My Artie Simply pan is $4,800 a year. So it's about $400 a month.

Dan Austin: [15:57] And I don't even think it's like, I don't look at it. A lot of guys are looking at it as a cost reduction. Look at it as an efficiency gain.

Mike DeHaan: [16:03] It's It's

Dan Austin: [16:03] an efficiency gain.

Mike DeHaan: [16:04] Just like the less amount of time that we spend like clicking around. So like even within within our platform, all of like the repeat documents that we send, the PSA is a good example. How do you currently send a PSA? Do you do with RE Simply? There's kind of like you go through the whole process.

Dylan Koch: [16:18] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [16:19] Yeah. PandaDoc, you have to go get the template, all kind of stuff. We replace PandaDoc. We literally just... In our thing, if we're doing like a loan extension, for example, in our closed loan section, there's one thing that says send loan extension. It will... One button, send it and say, is this the right person? Yes. That's all you do. It grabs all the information from it. It sends it off. It already... It looks at the loan

Dan Austin: [16:38] docs any because information in

Mike DeHaan: [16:40] type anything. It it reads the loan docs that are uploaded, it knows what the loan extension policies are with those loan docs. It just auto fills it, and then it just sends it. So instead of it now being like a five or ten minute task, it takes ten seconds.

Dan Austin: [16:52] Mhmm. Yep.

Dylan Koch: [16:53] Yeah. That's that's awesome.

Dan Austin: [16:54] And that's right. I also say, like, I know you were able to eliminate your lead manager, but I don't even see it as like an employee elimination. It's like, you just have more capacity within your existing employees. You still may need a certain role in your company, but you're able to use AI to increase their capacity. And then you have a system that's customized to your team that just makes it so much more efficient, thus increasing their capacity even more.

Dylan Koch: [17:15] Yeah. I mean, we've kind of already seen that with the AM, right? Like in Bing automated, some of their tasks. Like if he just logs in, he's got 70 tasks, but now we can automate at least half of those, like boom. Like how much time does that fill up? A lot.

Dan Austin: [17:28] Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And like plan out their day form. Like here's all of your... Like you could build in logic on priority of a task and how you work through tasks. It's like, okay, now just start from the top and go through it. A lot of cool stuff you can do.

Dylan Koch: [17:40] Yeah, I agree. It is, I think it's cool that with this, like I haven't had my business, how do I say it, like integration or business growth, like head or mindset for a while. It was just like show up, do the tasks that you know need to be done and etcetera. But this is like, okay, how can we actually change this so it's better? I haven't had you flex that muscle in a while.

Mike DeHaan: [18:00] Just every single thing that you do that takes time, just think about... Just try to find a way that they can help with that. Maybe it's like running comps. Right? Finding information about the borrower, doing like a brief title report. Right? Or like going and checking proactively for you to see if there's any like leads, how much they owe, all those kind of different things that you probably do manually by now. I guarantee you, you can set it up so that when a lead comes in and it knows the address, it will check all that stuff, it will give your AM a report so that he can have a more constructive conversation right out there.

Dylan Koch: [18:27] One thing that even the... That Claude recommended I do that I haven't done yet was go through all the sold data and figure out, okay, what county, what price point, what list are they on? And then like, that way you can hammer in, okay, out of, you know, whatever the 50 deals you've done this year, 60% have come from high equity tired landlord, you know, pick your poison. But like that way you can just hammer in and be more efficient with your marketing dollars, especially when you're in a market like this.

Mike DeHaan: [18:50] 100%, dude. Yeah. All that stuff. It's infinite, you know, and you can't be complacent because it will make mistakes, Right? Yep. So it's important that you understand, especially when you review. But the nice thing is, is every mistake that you find, you fix, that is now one less that it is going to make in the future. Right? And so as we start out, it'll make a bunch of different mistakes. So like when we launched ours, I would be getting several different bug fixes a day. Now I get maybe like two a week. Right? Because it's all sort of ironed out. The stuff that does get found is like really small single use case situation. It was like, oh, when I did this exact thing, that is what caused it. Right? And so now we have like a fully refined system, but that's how it works.

Dylan Koch: [19:28] I see a lot of real estate gurus that have been pitching like AI to run to run comps like you mentioned. Mhmm. Like, that's what the last things I think I'd let AI do. Just because it can be so... It can be so street by street, especially here that I'm just like, you mess that up. Everything else downstream of that is wrong. So

Mike DeHaan: [19:45] This is where you train it. Right? It's like, you can have it start by pulling its own comps. And then what you do is you refine it with the comps that you like, tell it why you like it better. Then it will bring that information into the future ones.

Dylan Koch: [19:55] Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

Mike DeHaan: [19:57] So... But, yeah, there's lot of different stuff you do. We've really hit on this a lot over the past couple weeks. It's funny. I've had people be like, you guys are so late to this. I'm like, no, we're really not. Because 99.9% of people I talk to don't even know what Claude is. Right? Let alone are they using using it for anything outside of, like, basic search. And that's including, like, a lot of business owners that, like, are still like, like, I need to hire a tech person to help me set up my email to build anything. I mean, no, you don't anymore. Like you really don't. People, it's going take a long time for that to become accepted.

Dylan Koch: [20:31] Yeah. And when even, I haven't even touched the surface on AI agents and like the auto... The autonomous things that they can do for you. Yeah. And I haven't even gone down that rabbit hole, so I can't really speak to it. But...

Mike DeHaan: [20:39] Yeah. I I just started playing with that. Where that's incredibly clutch is what we found is reviewing, like, your whole email inbox for, like, old stuff. So for example, the other day, Dan and our bookkeeper were going back and forth on a few things. And a bookkeeper is like, what is this $80,000 that was wired? You know, like, we we have a lot of money movement through it for loans and draws, and we have, like, our fun and everything else. And she, like, sent a screenshot of the email. And I had obviously done it, but there was no mention of, like, what it was for or why it And did that or anything I was like, I

Dylan Koch: [21:15] don't know.

Dan Austin: [21:15] We're Mike.

Mike DeHaan: [21:16] I was like, I moved that two weeks ago. I have no idea. And so I... I've been using both the, the Facebook one, Muse and, GrockBot. And I basically just said, I was using GrockBot for that one. I said, can you look at my email and figure out why I would have sent this money? And it said, well, you first mentioned it on this email chain, and then it came around again on this email chain. And then on this one, it looks like where you confirmed that you sent it. And so it was probably for this. And it did it in, like, fifteen seconds. I And was like, for me to dig through emails

Dylan Koch: [21:44] I'm freaking like half an hour.

Mike DeHaan: [21:46] At least. At least. If not longer. Right? Yeah. Like, it's just a freaking nightmare.

Dylan Koch: [21:50] That's that's clutch. So Yeah. But I mean, what do you do? You literally just like download GrockBot and then you Mhmm. I... These are texts, right? Like, these are the... Most of these work?

Mike DeHaan: [21:57] Yes. It's all in email. Yeah. So, like, in... I just downloaded GrockBot. I'll get back to my email, and now it just does that. And, like, I I have to do all sorts of other stuff too. Like, like, right now, I had an issue with, like, the email where I had stuff getting flagged for spam that was coming in from, like, other people. So, like, I'd have, like, a borrower that would email me, for some reason, would get flagged as spam. And so I had to basically make it so that everything that gets sent to me now comes through. So now I can't use the Gmail filters. I just have GrockPot that goes in. If anything looks like spam, it replies to them and says, take me off your list immediately, and then deletes them and marks them as spam. Nice. Right. I love that. Just... It just does that, like, all the time. So it keeps my e... My inbox clear.

Speaker 4: [22:35] I can imagine how many emails you get a day

Dylan Koch: [22:36] because I get, a 100. I get a

Mike DeHaan: [22:38] Oh dude, you would get tons,

Dan Austin: [22:39] lots Yeah. Of The thing that I am trying to like, or I'm looking for, Audrey, I should say, is the stream of consciousness. Like, may be a near link guy because I can't as fast as my brain thinks anymore. And like, you know, when you're like, I just want to be able to talk to Grok and like, because like you have the screen up and it'll be popping shit up here and then I'm looking at it,

Mike DeHaan: [23:00] but I want to be

Dan Austin: [23:00] able to just like start talking to it instead of typing.

Dylan Koch: [23:02] You know what mean?

Mike DeHaan: [23:03] Well, you can do that, dude. There's literally a little button on it. No, no, but it's not. I know that dude.

Dylan Koch: [23:08] I'm not a newbie.

Mike DeHaan: [23:09] It's a microphone. It's right there. I understand that, but

Dan Austin: [23:12] it's not fast enough. Right? There's still too much like lag. And like once they perfect that though, I'm gonna be so excited because that's how people are gonna interact with this shit. They're not, keyboards are gonna not be as functional when you're working within an AI. Because then once you set up the agents, they're gonna just do their thing. Right? And then you just talk to your agents. Like, you'll just have a meeting with them. But then while you're setting things up, just having that conversation with it, like more of a conversational troubleshooting. Because I use it a lot for troubleshooting stuff. And I think that's just gonna be so awesome in the future. Like just the speed at which you can do this.

Mike DeHaan: [23:42] Yeah. And then pretty soon it'll be connected to your brain. So basically like Stephen Hawkins, you know, it'll be like, it'll be like, Grogbot, please send this email to Dylan.

Dan Austin: [23:53] You won't even say that. You'll just think it, man. Here, my... Let me ask you this question. If it makes you 1000% more efficient, would you get a Neuralink?

Mike DeHaan: [24:01] No. No one's ever put anything in my brain if I don't need it.

Dan Austin: [24:04] What if you get a brain eating disease when you're in like Laos?

Mike DeHaan: [24:07] Well, that's different. That's a... It's a medical need for for like a personal enhancement. No way. I would never do any sort of body modification like that.

Dylan Koch: [24:15] I just want the limitless pill. Really? That movie, like, where they just... They took all the... Like... But then if everyone has it, like, is it really an advantage?

Dan Austin: [24:21] So you wanna do calf implants? Calf? You said no body modification? I know you could use those, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [24:28] Nah, dude. They won't they won't fit my ski boots anymore. I intentionally avoid all my calf

Dan Austin: [24:32] exercises, but... Yeah. Makes you a better skier.

Mike DeHaan: [24:35] Yeah. No, I would, I would never do something like that though. Yeah. No, me neither.

Dan Austin: [24:40] Just, I think ninety nine percent of people would say no, if you have a perfectly working brain. However, the idea of having something that like, where you didn't have to do anything, just think it is pretty enticing.

Dylan Koch: [24:50] I was gonna, now I'm gonna save my comment for- No, you're out of state now. You brought it up.

Dan Austin: [24:55] What were you gonna talk about Dylan?

Dylan Koch: [24:56] I was gonna make fun of you, Dan. I was like, I was

Mike DeHaan: [24:58] gonna talk about it was Dylan's, this Dylan's penile implants.

Dan Austin: [25:02] Hey, what were you gonna say that would maybe hurt my feelings Dylan?

Dylan Koch: [25:04] Oh, okay, fine. Yeah. Was gonna say, you're gonna have your implant in your hand. You'll be sitting at your computer, just like thinking there. And then next thing you know, gonna be four different tabs of gay porn that pops up. Yeah. Yeah. Like, does it? That's not even gonna help that. No. Right? Yeah. That is the risk as people, like you're actually That

Mike DeHaan: [25:23] actually is kind of interesting. Right? It's like, I guess with the whole concept of Neuralink, how does that work? Is is it... Does it portray, like, every thought? Or, like, is, like, people have intrusive thoughts? I don't know. Right? Doesn't this always need to be sexual? Maybe... Like, everyone's had that thought of, like, I could kill this person with my car

Dylan Koch: [25:38] right now.

Mike DeHaan: [25:39] Right? Like, everyone has thought this. They are walking across the street so slow. How many points would I get if I hit them?

Dylan Koch: [25:46] You know? Like Points.

Mike DeHaan: [25:49] Everyone's thought this.

Dylan Koch: [25:50] Yeah. Think you're in your Tesla, touching your neural leg, it takes off. It's like, dope. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [25:54] And it, yeah, exactly. Tesla's like, okay.

Dylan Koch: [25:56] And then

Mike DeHaan: [25:57] it gives you a score. You're like, no.

Dylan Koch: [25:59] Yeah. I didn't mean to.

Mike DeHaan: [26:01] It Vibe codes you with scoreboard for hitting pedestrians while you're thinking this. You're like, fuck, it's just like...

Dan Austin: [26:06] Stop. Yeah. You're right. You're probably right. It's like, dude, just stop. I need to turn this thing off right now. It's just like doing too much at once. That's funny.

Dylan Koch: [26:13] Well, bringing it back to real estate. We're talking business. We're a

Mike DeHaan: [26:17] business show now. We're so called collecting keys because you guys could never agree with me rebrand like six months ago. So... Alright.

Dylan Koch: [26:23] Rock, paper, scissors, shoot

Dan Austin: [26:24] on the name right now. Let's do

Mike DeHaan: [26:25] it. I don't know. I don't care.

Dylan Koch: [26:30] We'll have AI figure out the name.

Mike DeHaan: [26:31] I just had a bunch of shirts made, like Dylan's great shirt that says, I'm real estate curious with collecting keys on it.

Dan Austin: [26:37] Yeah. That wasn't on my, looks...

Mike DeHaan: [26:39] No. Definitely not.

Dan Austin: [26:41] What's the other two? Dylan said he got two.

Mike DeHaan: [26:43] How come

Dylan Koch: [26:43] I I got got three total. I got

Mike DeHaan: [26:44] this one. I didn't send you an I'm like the other wholesalers one.

Dylan Koch: [26:47] Yeah. Because you're not a wholesaler, Dan.

Dan Austin: [26:48] Okay. That was it. Yeah. I'm not. You're right. I'm a freaking poser now. Yeah. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [26:52] But the other one says equity pirate. Yeah. And then I I have one I need to put on the shop still that says, number go up, make me happy.

Dan Austin: [27:00] That is my favorite, actually.

Dylan Koch: [27:01] That's a multi purpose shirt. That could be real That could be That could in stocks. That could be Bitcoin. That could

Mike DeHaan: [27:06] be anything. Yeah. Yeah. I just didn't forget to to add it. I'll add

Dan Austin: [27:08] that one. Yeah. We need, like, a, like, a, like, a show mascot, like, a character that can go into all of our memes that we can... We're gonna end up inevitably making with AI. Yeah. Like, Kevin Kevin the key.

Dylan Koch: [27:19] I don't It's Kevin the Key.

Dan Austin: [27:21] You know, we need a mini mascot. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [27:23] Yeah. We do. Yeah. That's actually... It would be funny. We could go back and start doing the animated adventures again. Now those are... Oh. We can make those AI. We could do that. We have Kevin the Key do, like, real estate stores. This is a great idea.

Dan Austin: [27:34] Like, is he an actual key? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [27:36] Why not? Or is he, like, Kevin?

Mike DeHaan: [27:39] I know. I... I'm thinking he's I'm thinking he's, like, a, like, a South Park style key. Like, it's, like, towel y, but he's, like, a... Like, that's from animation style. I get it. Okay.

Dylan Koch: [27:47] Both of you, shut up. I'm gonna ask you a question. Of course, I get a fucking phone call. I was talking to... He's a he's a big multifamily guy here in Cincinnati. He owns like a 66 or 68 unit building. He's doing the value add, bought it like two years ago. Obviously, rates have gone up a lot in those two years. And he got approached through a broker to basically, like, get a large insurance company to be the lender, like, for his... For... Like, for this building. And that's the first time I had heard of that. And so I don't know if you guys have heard of that before. It got pretty competitive like terms. Like it sounds like it's almost Fannie Freddie, but without recourse.

Mike DeHaan: [28:24] If it's Northwestern Mutual, you should be careful because they probably just want to sell them a whole life policy.

Dylan Koch: [28:29] All right.

Mike DeHaan: [28:29] That's their hook. Now, haven't heard of that.

Dan Austin: [28:31] I mean, I haven't heard of lenders being direct lender or sorry, insurance companies being direct lenders, but I do know that they are investors in a lot of the funds. That's interesting that an insurance company would be...

Dylan Koch: [28:41] Yeah. Like, can, if they're big enough, they can actually hold like the first position. Like, I don't know. Why couldn't they?

Dan Austin: [28:44] But like,

Dylan Koch: [28:45] yeah, why couldn't they? Exactly. I don't know.

Dan Austin: [28:47] I mean, it's the same

Mike DeHaan: [28:48] thing. Well, a lot of them do. So it's like we have investors, Dan, that the actual investor is insurance companies.

Dan Austin: [28:55] Yeah. I guess they're not originating it though, what Don's saying is they're going direct to consumers. Consumers. So So like, like it was like, they are investing in this. They're just not usually going direct to the consumer. So that's, that's an interesting...

Mike DeHaan: [29:05] Well, I guess what, what were the details of it? Like, did they want like the whole portfolio or was it like singular assets? Was it purchases? Was it refinances?

Dylan Koch: [29:12] There's a refinance on a 66 unit and then A market here. So like class A asset, multifamily, completely renovated.

Mike DeHaan: [29:19] So what's the size on that? Like 3 to 4,000,000?

Dylan Koch: [29:22] I think the number he threw around was... I think he threw around 6, but that does seem high.

Mike DeHaan: [29:27] Main That's 6 for like the value or the loan amount?

Dylan Koch: [29:29] The loan amount. So that could make sense.

Mike DeHaan: [29:31] Yeah. Because, like, I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing that because that's typically agency debt still, you know, that's coming through that. Like, like, it's credit unions or local banks that are kinda carrying a lot of that, and they're... You know, it's like Freddie Mac twenty five year stuff. And on like the private money side, there isn't really a major origination channel there. And so it's possible that these companies, they want those kind of assets, their minimum, I would imagine, would probably be 5,000,000 in terms of like what they would be willing to generate.

Dylan Koch: [29:59] Yeah. And I think you're right. The interesting thing to me right now is they gave him a ten year interest rate lockup around... It was like six and a quarter. But if you go to a ten year treasury right now, it's like five and a quarter. Is that really worth... Like a one percentage point going to be worth the risk adjusted return Yeah. For something like It's... That's an interesting thing to me. Like what... How small they're willing willing to go

Dan Austin: [30:20] over What is that gap? Yeah. Yeah. And like Pete, that just maybe speaks to the narrative of people, going elsewhere than treasuries, Yeah. You

Dylan Koch: [30:29] No, I think so. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [30:30] Corporate bonds, this would be something similar to that.

Dylan Koch: [30:32] Yeah. I mean, the hyperscalers are like, oh, trying to get debt. They're issuing at eight, 9% right now. So...

Mike DeHaan: [30:38] Yeah. And it's it's just hedging. You know, I think that with the volatility with the US government and just American bonds, you know, US bonds, people are wanting that similar concept, but there's a little bit more diversification they've had before. Yeah. You know, we've seen how volatile those bonds have been over the past few years. It's not gonna get any better over the next little bit, at least. Like, I would say by the investing patterns of the big money, no one's really thinking it's gonna get better.

Dylan Koch: [31:05] Yeah. No.

Mike DeHaan: [31:06] No. Like, it's like those sort of companies, I mean, they have quants that they pay a million dollars a year whose job is to, like, figure projections over the next several years. Right?

Dylan Koch: [31:14] Chris Whelan is a guy that people should follow if they have any interest in this. He just did a podcast and he's like done forty years in banking, and now he runs his own like fund around financials. He basically just sold a lot of his financial positions, Goldman, American Express, all of this, because he sees choppy waters ahead with, like, perpetually higher rates. Doesn't think this trend is slowing down, which eventually, that'll be good for banks because they can lock in higher premium. But they're Yeah. Ones that are like two or three years into the debt with a ten or plus year time horizon, those are underwater.

Dan Austin: [31:46] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [31:46] Yeah. That... I mean, rates are gonna get weird. And and like where you can tell things are getting sketchy. So like there's the banks and the people that actually hold the debt, but you're starting to see patterns with the middle people. And we see this a lot more now that they're on lending side. And so, like, the aggregators, you have a ton of DSCR shops that are shutting down entirely right now. One of our investors actually sent out an email the other day that they're completely shutting up the DSCR side of their business.

Dylan Koch: [32:10] Because they can't make the spread?

Mike DeHaan: [32:12] Basically, the economics don't make sense for them anymore. Right? And so that can be one of two things. It can mean they can't make the spread that makes sense for them with their capital partners versus what the expectations are with the borrowers. Or it can be that they originated a bunch of debt over the past three, four months that's been sitting on a warehouse line that they're now heavily underwater on because rates have gone up so much. And so they're basically just trying to survive and get out of That can be one thing that that can happen. Right? So it's basically shut up shop. But you're also seeing some of the really big shops. There's like this one group called, United Wholesale Mortgage. They've been around since before the crash in 2008. They were... You know, have survived for, like, a long time really in the space. But they sent me an email the other day that they are now... For... On their conventional products, so they're owner occupied products, they are bringing back no... Like, basically no credit floor on loans. And so it doesn't matter what your credit is at all. You can get a loan through them. Wow. Obviously, that will affect pricing and LTV and everything else. But that's, like, kinda starting to get into the the ninja loans territory a little bit as well. I don't know the full economics of that. Like, maybe it's like if you're 500 credit, you can only do 50% LTV on the loan. But either way, the fact that they are now entertaining that as such a large institution...

Mike DeHaan: [33:27] Because what they do is they're gonna aggregate all that stuff, they're and gonna sell it off to the actual investors at the end of the day. They're a wholesale shop. That's what they do. And so that will eventually have downstream implications to the people that end up holding that debt, which I imagine will be negative. And the reason they're doing that is because they so... They're so desperate to generate more business because they need revenue.

Dan Austin: [33:46] Yeah. And the borrower pool

Mike DeHaan: [33:48] is getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And so they're having to reach further into the population, into the less desirable borrowers to do that.

Dan Austin: [33:55] Well, the transaction volume on the conventional side is so slow right now. Have to do something.

Dylan Koch: [33:59] To both of your points, the big agencies on like Fannie and Freddie, or not Fannie and Freddie, but yeah, no, they're not even doing MBSs anymore. And like the Fed's not buying mortgage backed securities. And so who is?

Mike DeHaan: [34:10] Well, yeah, it's all private. It's all private.

Dylan Koch: [34:13] Right. But that was the buyer of last resort and that they're not buying. Right? Like, so.

Dan Austin: [34:17] Yeah. Yeah. Well, the only person I would say buying mortgage backed securities for the last, what decade plus was the US government, right? That kind of after 2008, that kind of went away. They became really the only buyers of it. And so what I've kind of observed, my theory here is, is that that, that same money, that private money that was buying mortgage backed securities, like that is going into this side of the debt pool, the private side. Right? Because they're looking at investors as a... That money still needs real estate exposure, Right? Yeah. Needs the debt exposure and still wants it, still desire it. That's what these people are doing. And so they're moving into guys like you, Dylan, who have multiple properties. They're getting like 75, 80% LTV. So not these 95% LTV. And what, to your point, Mike, with the United Wholesale Mortgage, it's interesting because maybe right now they're saying, well, we'll just do 90% of the good shit and we'll just sneak in 10% of the bad shit, which is what they're doing in 2008. So they bundle it all up. You don't see the bad shit. It's still a triple a bond or whatever they're getting rated at. Right? Or maybe it's, you know, but the real estate market, the transaction volume is so low. They have to keep reaching deeper and deeper because there's people that still want loans and there still are transactions going on, but there's the A plus borrowers. There's only so many of them because they're not doing bad deals right now. Know? But a guy with 500 credit who has no choice might do a bad deal.

Mike DeHaan: [35:30] Yeah. And I think you're seeing more interest on the private side into getting into like, the more conventional debt as well since Fannie and Freddie isn't buying MBSs anymore because they've had the last almost twenty years now to get comfortable doing that on the DSCR side. Right? So they've kinda, like, learned the product of working with, you know, borrowers, real estate, everything else. And so that's a big reason right now. I think that you're seeing these investor rates that are significantly lower than conventional rates. Yeah. And so I saw this thing the other day that it's like the average conventional mortgage right now is like 7.875. Like super high.

Dylan Koch: [36:05] Wow.

Mike DeHaan: [36:05] We still have floor rates in

Dylan Koch: [36:06] the sixes, some of our investors. That's crazy.

Mike DeHaan: [36:09] Right? We don't sell that to people because I don't need to. I can sell it at seven and a quarter, and we make more money.

Dylan Koch: [36:14] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [36:14] Right? So if you hear that and you go to SLA, don't don't repeat that because I'm not gonna fucking give it to you. But, like, like, we're still seeing that though. And, like, the conventional side, that doesn't exist anymore. That is a non QM business loan, which traditionally has been so much higher than the conventional loan, and it is now significantly cheaper. Not even it's like, Oh, it's like an eighth of a point. It's like an entire percentage point cheaper.

Dylan Koch: [36:37] Yep. If you think about where's the rubber hit the road for either you guys lending or me if I'm still doing the rentalwholesale business, it's like, Okay, if I had to project this out, underwrite that rates are probably going be slightly higher. Even if you have a five one arm coming due, and you're only going to be paying down so much principal over that time frame, like you might have to bring $50,100 ks to a deal, like, to make sure you have those set aside. And like, if you're going to continue to buy, maybe lock in that thirty year stuff. Don't do the ARMs,

Mike DeHaan: [37:06] right? Like... Yeah. The problem is really get you is you have the prepayment penalties and everything else. I think that tends to be what holds people back is they don't wanna lock in a high rate and then, oh, it... We're at 4% again in three years. It's not gonna happen. So don't don't freaking fret.

Dan Austin: [37:20] Things don't move that fast.

Mike DeHaan: [37:22] Yeah. And then honestly, if if it if it does and now it gets better or that much better, pay the prepayment penalty. Yeah. If you bought a good deal, you should have enough equity. You'll be fine anyway. Just wrap it in the loan.

Dylan Koch: [37:31] This is... So I'll give an example to this is in May, I bought a house from a seller for $250. She was going through like a nasty divorce, but she's like, she didn't care about any equity in the home. She just wanted to stay there for kids could finish out two years of schooling. And then her ex basically took all the equity that they had that we bought it for and she stayed at the home. So I'm renting it backdoor. We're... The rent amount is pretty much where our PITA breaks even. I got a interest only loan at like 6%. So that way I... Not... But we signed a lease option agreement for the following year at like a purchase price of like $3.50. So printing a spread like should be good. Well, one, I had to pay an unknown 6 k mechanically and that just popped out of nowhere.

Dan Austin: [38:16] That's just Nice.

Dylan Koch: [38:17] 50 in the ass. But then two, as like that interest only thing is adjustable. I've already got hit with two hikes.

Dan Austin: [38:23] Oh, jeez.

Dylan Koch: [38:24] On that...

Mike DeHaan: [38:25] Oh, so it's not locked at all?

Dylan Koch: [38:26] No, it's not locked at all. It's going to keep changing with the prime rate. I'm like, so, okay, expect the profit's going to go down. I still have some margin. My worry though is, like, even though she's well qualified, we ran her credit. Like, if this keeps going up, is she gonna qualify to buy this in two years?

Mike DeHaan: [38:40] Probably not. Probably not. But hey, that's least to own game though, because you gotta charge them a fee. Then they don't qualify. You charge them another fee.

Dylan Koch: [38:46] Well, didn't charge a fee. Like, I was very nice on how we structured this whole thing because I was like, I'm good. You did it

Mike DeHaan: [38:53] the ethical way, not the way that like people used to beat their chest on how they cash flow all these freaking rentals by ripping No. Off poor

Dylan Koch: [39:00] I did it the best way ever. I thought it was a win win for everybody. But of course, I'll probably get like, yes, we're still making money. Is it as good as I thought it was gonna be? No. But the worst case scenario is we get to the end of this term, rates are higher, she doesn't qualify, then I do have to have her leave. Because like, I can't just sit on this and subsidize it.

Mike DeHaan: [39:15] Oh, man. You evicted from her own home? That's a fun one.

Dylan Koch: [39:18] No. We'll let her say to her kids are graduated. That was the deal.

Dan Austin: [39:20] Her kids. Man, you're a capitalist pig. Capitalist pig.

Mike DeHaan: [39:24] Yeah. That's funny. The one time we had to evict people from their own home, it was really ugly situation. But the most brazen thing about that is... So they sold us the house. They were in foreclosure. They sold this house, bailed them out bailed them out of foreclosure. They've lived in this house for years. They... So they're staying in there. Literally, like, the next week, they go into our product management software and send us a maintenance request that their fridge is broken. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's your fridge. You've had this fridge for five years. It was broken when we walked the What are you doing? And the thing is they were only supposed to be there for like a month while they moved into their

Dylan Koch: [40:02] new

Mike DeHaan: [40:02] place, which they ended up not doing, and it was a whole fucking

Dan Austin: [40:05] That was never their intention.

Dylan Koch: [40:07] Like a week into that same thing, I got a notice for servicing the furnace, the HVAC unit. I'm like, Hey, we're going to be crossing some lines That's bad. So it's funny.

Mike DeHaan: [40:21] Alright, Dan. Can you say goodbye to everybody in Japanese?

Dylan Koch: [40:25] Konnichiwa? Konnichiwa.

Mike DeHaan: [40:28] Hey, you're all prepped for your trip tomorrow. I love that.

Dan Austin: [40:31] Hold on.

Dylan Koch: [40:31] Hold on. Hold on. Let me... What is it? Sayonara. This is very unique Is it really? Sayonara? That's...

Dan Austin: [40:37] Really? Mhmm.

Dylan Koch: [40:38] I would trust him.

Mike DeHaan: [40:39] I do know.

Dylan Koch: [40:39] I don't have to look it up.

Dan Austin: [40:40] But I do know.

Dylan Koch: [40:41] I know.

Mike DeHaan: [40:41] That's supposed to be, like, too for... Too formal. There's other ways to say it as well. Arigato. Arigato Gazzamasu. Yep. That's how you say thank you very much. Yep. Alright. Well, Dan,

Dylan Koch: [40:52] don't get lost. Be safe. We'll see you when you get back. And everybody, thanks for listening. Talk to guys next time. See you.

Mike DeHaan: [40:59] This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, and I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore Invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose a follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.