Why January is Prime Time To Get Deals for FREE

Dylan Koch: [0:00] The people who are still in the off market business, one thing that I have done that has revived some old leads is just We gotta

Mike DeHaan: [0:09] get you one of, like, the really loud mechanical keyboards like I have, so it sound like he's using a typewriter over there.

Dan Austin: [0:14] That thing is loud.

Mike DeHaan: [0:16] That's how people know that you mean business, though. The louder the typewriter you have

Dan Austin: [0:19] That means you're a nerd. You're getting Yeah. The gamer guys I know have, like, weird keyboards, like, lights and shit in them.

Mike DeHaan: [0:24] Yeah. Well, it it's like the geek equivalent of, like, grunting in the gym. You know? People like people, they need to hear you to know that you're doing it right.

Dan Austin: [0:31] You know? It's very important.

Dylan Koch: [0:32] I can't do that at Planet Fitness. Sets off the luck alarm.

Mike DeHaan: [0:37] What's going on, guys? Welcome to Collecting Keys. I'm your host, Mike DeHaan, here with my cohost, Dan Austin and Dylan Cook. And let's listen, see if Dan's keyboard goes oh, he stopped. Oh, there we go. He means business.

Dylan Koch: [0:49] That's how

Mike DeHaan: [0:50] you know he's he's really getting stuff done over there.

Dylan Koch: [0:51] Dan still types with, like, his fingers like an old person. Yeah. It's like an iPad.

Mike DeHaan: [0:57] Hey. It's not his fault. It's because of the injuries he got to his hands in the war. Okay? Stop making fun of disabled veterans.

Dan Austin: [1:02] You know what? I this is actually a funny thing because what I've noticed recently in the last few years is my typing skills have actually gotten significantly worse. And I realized because I was teaching my daughter how to type. Like, we were talking about typing. She's like, what are those bumps on the keyboard for? Right? And I was like, oh, let me give you a lesson. Back in the day, you know, you put your fingers here and you do typing class. But I've noticed that I literally just sling letters pretty much the most of the day. And once in a while, like, I get it right. I think my brain's just like I've been typing too long. My brain

Dylan Koch: [1:32] It's just muscle memory.

Mike DeHaan: [1:33] Yeah. My brain

Dan Austin: [1:33] is, like, not thinking what it's doing, and it's just going.

Mike DeHaan: [1:36] Yeah. I get that. I mean well, it's funny because you don't realize how much of a skill that is until you're around people that don't have that. And then you're like, oh, boy. Or even, like, navigating computer in general. Because, like, we're we're pretty savvy just like with all the different platforms that you've had to use. Think it's because of our age group, but then also, you know, getting technical degrees. You kinda, like, had to learn to use Excel to do, like, your physics labs and shit that we had in college.

Dan Austin: [2:01] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [2:01] And, a lot of people just never did that. Like, we've had people on our team that are in their fifties, and they've been in a corporate environment before, but then they have to add something, like, in Excel or, like, we would put in these, like, pricing tools on Mhmm. Excel for them to be able to determine offers for acquisitions like that. They couldn't use it at all. That was an interesting thing when we were really growing the scale community a couple years ago, and we had, like, these different tools and stuff that people that I put together that was very proud of. Like, yeah, these are all the templates and things that we use for all of our offers for sub twos, whatever. Like, three quarters of people had no idea how the hell to use it.

Dylan Koch: [2:34] Yep.

Mike DeHaan: [2:35] And I was like, well, I guess that's useless.

Dylan Koch: [2:38] This is perfectly summed up with, like, the meme that says, me watching my superior who makes three times more than me struggle to save a PDF. Got it. Oh, god.

Mike DeHaan: [2:48] And you know what's hilarious? Dan, literally yesterday,

Dan Austin: [2:51] he sent me a bunch of things, and he said, can

Mike DeHaan: [2:53] you save these as PDFs for me?

Dan Austin: [2:55] Yeah. Okay. I have a good excuse for that. I am a 100% good. I've been okay. So this came to a head this week because I finally I finally gave up on Mac. So I've had a MacBook, what, for a few years now, and it's the worst it's the worst system I've ever I hate it. I can't stand it.

Dylan Koch: [3:11] Oh, I love my Mac.

Dan Austin: [3:13] I hate it. I it's biggest piece of shit. And so, you know, when you get a locked PDF from like a title company, and so you have to get the password and then you can open it. Well, you can't save it because it'll just save it. So you have to print as PDF. Guess what my Mac refused to do? It would not print it as a PDF. And I was like, goddamn it. So I had to send to Mike to do. So then now I'm getting a new computer. Yeah. So I hate it so bad. It's so hard to, like, have, like, multiple tabs open. Maybe I'm just dumb, but it's so hard to operate with a Mac.

Dylan Koch: [3:41] You'd be like the, you know, the government with the redacted Epstein files where apparently you could just copy and paste it and it wasn't redacted anymore.

Mike DeHaan: [3:48] Hell yeah.

Dan Austin: [3:49] That one would have got me. I would have been like, shit. There's black on it. I'm fucked. Can't get it off.

Mike DeHaan: [3:54] Yeah. It's like, well, the problem is they edited these Epstein files with a Canva template, you know. So it's really easy just to go and modify it. Dude. You can actually download the the template from the White House official Canva. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [4:04] From Canva.

Dylan Koch: [4:05] I've had a wholesaler send me a redacted contract that was just, like, Microsoft Paint. I could literally go in and to see what they had the contract price for. Really? Like, yeah. Yeah. It's happened to me. I was like, well, you're an idiot. But thanks.

Mike DeHaan: [4:15] That's so funny. It's it's like when people send you get, like, the new wholesaler who sends out a dispo email, and they accidentally put their entire buyers list in, like, the two or the cc. I'm like, well, thank you. These are all my buyers now. So I appreciate that.

Dylan Koch: [4:28] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [4:28] Got

Dylan Koch: [4:29] it. Until half of them get rejected for, like, email doesn't exist or whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [4:32] But yeah. Yeah. Right.

Dan Austin: [4:33] 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [4:34] Yeah. They have them respond back, and they're, like, reply all. And they're like, remove me from this list, and you're getting freaking blown up.

Dylan Koch: [4:39] Oh my god. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [4:40] I remember when I was at Boeing, one of the most exciting things that happened while I was there was somebody sent out, like, a team wide email. But instead of doing it in BCC, they did it to, like, the two. And so there was, like, 6,000 people on it was, like, a ridiculous email. Right? And they sent it out, and so many people replied back

Dan Austin: [5:04] Oh my god.

Mike DeHaan: [5:05] Saying, like, remove me from this distribution list. And then other people were replying back saying, just don't answer, and they won't send it again. And so there you have, like, this basically mob of people that were all going back and forth, and it was so significant that it crashed the email system.

Dan Austin: [5:20] That's great. That's like classic corporate America. Classic corporate America.

Dylan Koch: [5:25] I'm, like, physically cringing from that.

Dan Austin: [5:27] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [5:27] Like, I would be so mad. This is

Mike DeHaan: [5:29] a company that builds things that fly across the ocean. And this is this is how terrible their internal systems are that if there's, an accidental email chain, it brings everything down.

Dylan Koch: [5:38] We haven't had a a Boeing, you know, plane go down in a in a while.

Dan Austin: [5:41] At least thirty days.

Dylan Koch: [5:43] Yeah. At least thirty

Mike DeHaan: [5:44] days. God. Not not that we know of. Anyways wild. So right on, guys. Well, I think we start with some of the big news since this came out yesterday, and everyone has been talking about it. And I've seen about 50 different versions of this that are wrong. But Trump made his announcement that he was going to make a move to, I would say, like, ban institutional buyers from buying single family homes. And it's very funny to me that he's done this because it's, like, very uncapitalistic, which is kind of like the root of the Republican motto. Right? They're antisocial, very pro capitalist. But it's also, like, something that you can't necessarily regulate because there's so many ways to get around it. So it just feels to me like it's very, like, pandery to the peasants.

Dan Austin: [6:27] 100%.

Mike DeHaan: [6:28] During the election year, he's just, like, saying something that regardless of the aisle that side of the aisle that you're on, affording a house is hard right now, and everyone seems to think that there's this big scapegoat that is the institutional investors.

Dylan Koch: [6:39] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [6:39] Yeah. But the funny thing is if you look at the actual numbers, institutional investors own an like, the big, big money own an extremely small amount of real estate in United States.

Dan Austin: [6:48] What is the number?

Mike DeHaan: [6:49] So Blackstone's the biggest one. K? They are currently invested in about 600,000 homes from what I saw across United States.

Dan Austin: [6:56] How many homes are there?

Mike DeHaan: [6:58] Millions and millions. Like, tens of millions. Like, hundreds of millions.

Dan Austin: [7:01] Probably more than that. No. Really? Hundreds? No. Not hundreds of millions.

Dylan Koch: [7:04] The numbers I've seen is only 4% of the whole housing stock is owned by the

Mike DeHaan: [7:08] It's synchro. Incredibly small.

Dan Austin: [7:10] There's 145,000,000 housing units. I guess that would probably include apartments. Yeah. Was thinking houses.

Dylan Koch: [7:16] You would need single families. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [7:18] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [7:18] But

Dan Austin: [7:18] Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [7:19] Either way, it's a lot. Right? Like and so what they own, they own less than a million total. They're usually concentrated in, like, specific areas. It's not like they're, like, scattershot across the entire thing and they have these stakeholders. There'll be, like, a surplus in, like, Phoenix and all these sort of things. Right? And and then, like, to your point, Dylan, like, total sum that I've seen, like, I guess, like the total percentage, if you look at, like, all of them was about 4%. And so it's a relatively small number.

Dan Austin: [7:42] So according to Gemini, there's 82,000,000 homes, 82 to 86 single family homes, and 68,000,000 are owned by owner occupants. So there's not that many that are even owned percentage, like, overall percentages still owned by Americans. Correct. Individuals. Yep.

Dylan Koch: [7:56] Yes. Yeah. The bigger problem is, like, you know, how many of the boomer people who have inflated aren't selling, who have a paid off mortgage, or have a 2% interest rate. So there's not selling. Right? Like Yeah. You know, that's the bigger You know

Dan Austin: [8:07] what we should do? We should tax them based on that asset value.

Dylan Koch: [8:10] Well, I mean

Dan Austin: [8:11] Dylan's like, okay. Idiot. Dylan's like, are you that are you that dumb?

Dylan Koch: [8:16] Oh, can't I do it.

Mike DeHaan: [8:17] Dylan's like, I'm libertarian. Taxes make my brain hurt.

Dylan Koch: [8:20] I mean, you you can't

Dan Austin: [8:21] That's like the billionaire tax. That's the idea. Right? The billionaire tax in California, they wanna tax your total asset value.

Dylan Koch: [8:26] Yeah. But how many the ordinary Americans, like, what, 70% of net worth is their primary residence. So, like, you're just fucking their only, like, livelihood. I know.

Mike DeHaan: [8:33] Sounds like a them problem, Dylan. Come on.

Dan Austin: [8:35] Sounds like a them problem.

Mike DeHaan: [8:36] Look at it from the higher ups. It's their problem.

Dylan Koch: [8:38] I'm more anti boomer. And boomers had had the Goldilocks of economic headwinds.

Mike DeHaan: [8:42] Maybe those boomers that are worried about that should pull their bootstraps up and get a fucking job. Right?

Dylan Koch: [8:47] That's all I'm

Mike DeHaan: [8:47] gonna say.

Dylan Koch: [8:48] Yeah. Yeah. That's what they

Mike DeHaan: [8:49] said in everybody else.

Dan Austin: [8:50] I have a good argument for this, but I don't wanna get I don't wanna I don't wanna go down that pipe because I do wanna keep talking about this topic here, which I think is an interesting one because I would love to hear what your guys' opinions are on what's gonna actually happen.

Mike DeHaan: [9:00] Have any details actually come out about what he entails to do with that? No. Of course not, dude.

Dylan Koch: [9:04] No. And couldn't you just have every entity okay. A holding company and everything underneath it owns 99 homes. Right? So how are you gonna police that?

Dan Austin: [9:11] Right. You're not.

Mike DeHaan: [9:12] So which is what they already do. Yeah. And so, like, it's just like how during, like, the '21 '22 period, people would sell to these hedge funds. They would all have different names. They were all different subsidiaries of typically BlackRock because they're the ones if you, like, actually figured out where they were going to. Right? And so they just set up these different companies. They own the company because there's no law against owning companies. Right? They're so they're gonna say that, like, companies that you can't own a company that owns real estate. Right? Like, why can't you just have 200,000 companies if you wanted to own 200,000 homes, technically?

Dan Austin: [9:45] You

Mike DeHaan: [9:45] could. Right? LLC, it's not like it's that incredibly hard to file that, especially if you Or BlackRock. Are massive company of BlackRock. It doesn't matter. Yeah. Cost an extra thousand bucks for them to to file that every year. They don't give a shit. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [9:56] It's a good thing that the I mean, this has been all over my Facebook, and people arguing, being dumb about it. And they're like Yeah. And all this kind of stuff. But it's a thing that's a headline that the normal person can grasp, like, that's a good idea. I can get behind that. And that's kind of feels like all it is.

Dan Austin: [10:08] It's a bait because Trump's trying to get the liberals to argue how we need institutional buyers to buy all the real estate up.

Dylan Koch: [10:14] I don't know if That's

Dan Austin: [10:14] all it is.

Dylan Koch: [10:15] That train of thought is where I'd go.

Mike DeHaan: [10:17] But Well, I think it is. You don't think so? I actually kind of agree with Dan on that because I think that there's this whole thing this is always like the joke is they will always disagree with Trump on everything. So now he's saying something that they obviously would agree with. And so he's basically trying that was their platform. And so now he's trying to basically rage bait them into doing contradictory stuff.

Dan Austin: [10:37] And I 100% believe Trump would do that.

Mike DeHaan: [10:40] Absolutely. Like,

Dan Austin: [10:41] do stuff like that.

Mike DeHaan: [10:42] Well, he doesn't think that way because he's barely cognizant. But the people that are behind him that run his his trollish social media, absolutely.

Dan Austin: [10:50] I actually think he probably has a lot to say when it comes to that stuff. Dude, his ego is so big. You know, he's just like, I'm saying this. You guys shut up. And now he's probably got people on his team that are like, yeah. Say it, dog. Okay. Absolutely.

Mike DeHaan: [11:03] They do, man. I mean, that that's, like, their

Dylan Koch: [11:05] whole thing. I think we're all in agreement, though. Like, this isn't gonna move the needle.

Mike DeHaan: [11:08] No. It's not gonna do anything. Yeah. No. It's literally just just pandering to get votes in a midterm year.

Dan Austin: [11:14] Okay. Let's get away from the politics thing, and let's just say it's actually gonna happen. Let's say Trump does it. He's just loves Americans, and he's going to make sure that we're better off for this. What's gonna happen in the market?

Mike DeHaan: [11:26] Well, what actually happens in general? Can they not buy new homes? Can they not own them? You can't force them to sell what they already have. Right? Do you create incentives that will for that make it so undesirable for them to own them that it kinda, like, forces them to sell it as a result?

Dylan Koch: [11:39] There's a good case study of this in Cincinnati, though. There's, like, Vinebrook Homes is a big hedge fund. They're publicly traded their REIT, and they owned a ton of stuff in the city of Cincinnati. But they got a lot of backlash from the city, so the city kept fining them. And, like, they knew which ones. If you had your grasses three inches tall, they'd find them. I

Dan Austin: [11:55] love it.

Dylan Koch: [11:55] And eventually, Weinberg's like, we're not buying here anymore. So, like, they did kind of weed them out just from a regulatory perspective.

Mike DeHaan: [12:02] Yeah. So it's almost like a like, code violations is basically what they did.

Dan Austin: [12:05] Yeah. I want that here where we live.

Mike DeHaan: [12:07] I don't know shit. But, I mean, like, that's one thing. So what are they gonna go and say that if you if you're an institution that owns homes that they have to be perfectly manicured? That doesn't make sense.

Dan Austin: [12:16] I think I don't care about that. Sorry. I wanna add my point.

Mike DeHaan: [12:19] Oh, no worries. I'm just trying like, what I'm trying to figure out is, like, is, like, what they can actually do. But, yeah, go for it, Dan.

Dan Austin: [12:24] Yeah. So I guess I shouldn't say I don't care about that. What I wanna talk about would be is if that exists, if that law exists among capitalism, capitalism is always gonna find the most efficient way to make money. So what's that next most efficient way to do it? And I think BlackRock or whoever is these hedge funds owning these, in a hypothetical world, if this was a significant part of their, you know, investment strategy, they would find a new way to do this. Sure. You could do the LLC loophole, but say they close that out. So maybe maybe it's single family homes. Okay. Well, we'll just buy all the duplexes. They like duplexes too. Like, they'll just like wherever the most efficient way to make money. It might not be the same as they were doing before. It'll just find a different way. And what it points at is this idea of housing affordability. That's what it's speaking to because really what probably is Trump has heard from his team. If I had to guess is that, Hey, there's a lot of people that talk about housing affordability. The poors out there say that it's hard to get a house. Now I've got a lot of points to make on that, but what I would say is I don't think that fixing the housing prices is the right thing to do. Because it fundamentally what Trump is saying in that statement or what people believe when they say that statement is that these guys are driving up prices because they're buying all the houses from people, and then we have to rent.

Dan Austin: [13:41] There's no stock available for us to buy, which we all know that that's not the truth underlying it. They're not driving up prices like that. They may be in in some time frames and in some micro markets that happened. But what you're fundamentally doing then is you're rooting against the American economy, which is super heavily based on housing and super heavily based on just like the American dream of owning a home and all that stuff. And so you're saying, want the market to go down, which would be way more devastating to the American economy, which Trump doesn't want, none of us want, than having people be able to afford a home. Because you're essentially taking what you said earlier, Dylan, was like the biggest wealth capture for most Americans is the equity in their home. And the baby boomers who are all retiring right now and wanting to price sell their homes. You're taking all that wealth out. And that's fundamentally what you're saying is you're rooting against the American economy because you want the housing prices to go down.

Mike DeHaan: [14:27] The problem is is you look too long term. Politicians don't look long term. Basically, what's gonna happen over the next, like, year?

Dan Austin: [14:33] But even just the average person that says this. Right? Because Trump didn't come up with this idea. He doesn't care. The thought actually crossed my mind that the BlackRock CEO said something to Trump, and he's like, hold my beer, bitch. Probably. You pissed me off or you wouldn't do what I wanted you to do, so I'm going to say something.

Dylan Koch: [14:49] Their was down, like, 9%.

Dan Austin: [14:51] Yeah. Their stock was down. And so for Trump, that's a power move if that was the case. And that did cross my mind. But I just think a lot of people that talk about affordability and how they hate the landlord, they hate these people. Like, you own my apartment building. That means you're a piece of shit. Or you own my house. That means you're a piece of shit. Really, you're rooting for the American economy to go down. Is that what you want?

Dylan Koch: [15:09] Well, the boomers have inflated four zero one k's and IRA's, and they also have the equity in their home. Right? Like, they they kinda got the Goldilocks scenario for wealth building over younger generational classes. Trump was even on a a interview where he he alluded to this. He's like, well, I don't wanna crash housing prices because of the people who are retiring. But at the same time, you wanna give people who are younger the opportunity to buy a house to create that equity. You're kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I don't see a way where you can hurt one without hurting the other. Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [15:38] You're absolutely right. Yeah. Because it it's all connected. And I think along those lines is eventually the baby boomers are going to pass on that wealth or they're going to die or whatever. That housing inventory is going to loosen up. And I've believed this for a long time when I first learned this is, I don't know when I learned this maybe seven, eight, nine, ten years ago, when people were like, the baby boomers are the largest generation. And the millennials who is fundamentally are right behind the baby boomers. Right? Most of our parents are baby boomers. Right? There's a Gen X squeezed in there. But fundamentally, the millennials are the largest generation making the boomers the second largest. Well, we're building housing inventory for everybody because we're all adults. We're all living together. We all need houses. My parents need houses. Your parents have houses, And we have houses. Eventually, they're gonna die, and we don't need their houses. Yeah. Well, we don't. Other people might. But somebody does. But so then that large, which is going to happen over the next ten years, that large argument that the housing stock is underbuilt, it that shifts.

Mike DeHaan: [16:36] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [16:36] Because all those houses come back on as inventory. So that's kinda like the long term thought is like, it will happen. It's just not going to happen today for the last four year term or this four year term for this congress or this president.

Dylan Koch: [16:47] One thing that I think that ran out this conversation that I think it's more of like a higher level discussion, I guess, but it's ever since 2008, housing has become more of a financial instrument than it was in the past. And that's because of QE, because of manipulation of the currency. And so I almost put more of the blame on the Federal Reserve and Congress and the Treasury because of the manipulation of the dollar, of quantitative of printing all this money. People use real estate as a financial means, which like, they still did that before that, but not near to the same extent. I'm included in that. So, like, don't get me wrong. I learned the game and I'm playing it. But, like, I almost think if it wasn't for that, most people would still view homes as especially single family homes as that's where you live, not a financial utility for my retirement.

Dan Austin: [17:32] Yeah. It was like a

Mike DeHaan: [17:33] form of stability, right, instead of an actual means to an end to be able to retire and, like, the American dream and everything else. But but, I mean, like, I do think that that's they have been kind of intentionally gone that way because it forces there to be some stability for people that are older. Like, it's almost like if people can get into homes, it does give them that. So it allows them to I don't want say like a theory that I have. They do occasionally make sort of like long term plays. And so there's a lot of talking about Social Security. Technically, if people have another opportunity to have some kind of payday, you wouldn't need social security anymore. Right? And that can be a home. That can be a four zero one ks, whatever. Not everyone has four zero one ks. It's been discovered through your company and stuff like that. But if a lot more people get into a home and, like, that's, like, a platform that you can, like, push people to or even if it's, like, subsidized housing, right, that they, like, build equity and ownership in, that can take place of a Social Security setup, right, or getting actual government cash benefits. And if you choose to exercise or not, that's up to you. But I've thought this for a while that I feel like there might have been some view to be able to push people to that.

Mike DeHaan: [18:43] That's why they started bailing out all these banks and things like that and really promoting that push towards homeownership with the Fannie Freddie loans and everything being following the federal rates. Because when they were doing that, all the federal government was doing was making it easier for people to get into houses with cheaper debt because now it's no longer completely private. It's based off of the the federal government and what they're willing to pay, which is very much more like a macroeconomic thing.

Dylan Koch: [19:08] So I think if you live in a pure capitalistic society, the government would not be involved in, I shouldn't say, like, at all, but they would have a much lesser role. And that's buying mortgage backed securities. That's part of the FHA. That's the whole nine yards.

Mike DeHaan: [19:20] Well, if we lived in a fully capitalistic society, there would be a company that takes place of the the government that basically does all those things instead.

Dylan Koch: [19:29] So it's funny because even though I am more libertarian and and capitalistic, I do think there's a place for, like, trust busting and, like, not having monopolies. Yeah. Yeah. So there there is a role for that. I just when you get into the housing and, like, what's I I won't even say human. Right? But, like, what's best for the average American? It's a more nuanced conversation.

Mike DeHaan: [19:47] Yeah. Well and that the problem is that's very yeah. Like I said, it's nuanced that varies heavily based off of people's circumstances and everything else. And that's why it's a super complex issue is basically if you look at the countries people like to idolize, Japan's always like a big one, Scandinavia, those people that live there are all the same.

Dan Austin: [20:04] Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to get them in in line.

Mike DeHaan: [20:07] Yeah. That's not even like a racist con like, are literally the same people. They have the the same upbringing. They have the same set of, like, values as a culture. Like, you know, yeah, they have different personal interests, different family situations, whatever. But they don't have, like, some people that came from Ireland, some people that came from Africa, some people that are from Central And South America, some people that are native American. Right? Like, they don't they don't have that. Somalia? Somalia? Yeah. They got a lot of Somalians. Right? They're they're crushing it right now.

Dan Austin: [20:33] They're luring they're luring their lesson. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [20:36] But but the point is is, like, that doesn't exist in those other countries. And so it's much easier to have a singular solution that a central federal government can kind of, like, forecast for. You know, not only that, but the country is so much smaller. This is always the biggest thing with The United States that people don't tend to understand if you don't live here is how incredibly huge The US is and how different everywhere is. Mhmm. For us in in Washington State, the culture here is 1000% different from Miami, Florida. Oh. Like, it's not even close. That is like comparing Scotland to Greece. Like, it is just not a comparable thing.

Dylan Koch: [21:11] And what's the isn't like DFW, the GDP output, is it the same as Denmark, like the entire country or something like that? Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [21:17] California, I think, as a state, last time I saw it was, like, seven or eight in the world

Dylan Koch: [21:22] Yeah. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [21:22] In terms of GDP.

Dan Austin: [21:23] Yeah. It's fourth largest GDP in the world right now right now currently. Yeah. Yeah. Which is wild. That's huge. America's number one. Right? And then was China number two? Yeah. Who's three? Japan? Yeah. And then California. I mean, they're basically competing with China.

Mike DeHaan: [21:37] Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's just different. And, like, any changes that happen here at, like, a federal level, it it's just so overly complicated, and there's not really a good solution that will please everybody ever. It's just not possible.

Dylan Koch: [21:50] No. I think you have to I honestly, my recommendation is put a lot of decision making back in local jurisdictions, what housing they want, you know, and then hopefully deregulate from that point. And then just let that kind of play out with who's gonna build. And, I mean, Austin's a good example of people who build a lot of housing and then now rent, like, prices are down from the peaks. Right?

Dan Austin: [22:08] Yeah. I think that's a great point actually, Dylan. And it's like getting getting back to the basics. We talk about a lot of polarizing federal politics, but it feels like going back local is what everybody needs to realize is more advantageous to them. Getting involved in like your local, like communities and your local governments and helping influence laws that affect you because what the federal government does does have an effect on everybody because we're all falling underneath it, but it doesn't have to. It shouldn't. I don't think that was the founding father's intentions was that we all just are sucking off the teeth of the American government. Like, no. It should be, like, local. And so I feel like you can solve a lot of these housing issues locally.

Mike DeHaan: [22:45] In fact, I'm pretty sure it's quite the opposite because they did that to get away from the monarchy. Right? Right. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [22:51] Yeah. So yep. But really nobody's rooting for who's on their city council. They're rooting for red or blue up at the White House, but that should not really have that big of an effect.

Mike DeHaan: [23:01] Do you even know who's on our city council?

Dan Austin: [23:03] I know a couple of them, but I'm also not in the city.

Mike DeHaan: [23:05] I see the the fucking trash signs that they leave out for years. I don't know if those people got elected or not. All I see is just the the pollution that they do on both sides.

Dylan Koch: [23:15] They're probably running an anti litter campaigns too. Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. That's the irony of it.

Mike DeHaan: [23:20] Yeah. Anyways, so I guess to round that out, what it means like, will it change anything? No. Is it just them getting clicks and trying to distract from the fact that ICE murdered somebody in Minneapolis yesterday? Absolutely. Just had to throw it in there.

Dan Austin: [23:35] Well, here's the question. Is it a defensive murder?

Dylan Koch: [23:36] Let's not talk about this on here.

Mike DeHaan: [23:39] Like, it it's so hard to know. So this is when it comes to, like, police violence stuff

Dan Austin: [23:44] Oh, Mike and I

Dylan Koch: [23:44] will talk about this, Dylan. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [23:46] Go

Mike DeHaan: [23:46] ahead. Well, we're gonna be on the same side with this.

Dan Austin: [23:48] Mike and I probably will be.

Mike DeHaan: [23:49] The the problem is, like, when you look at these kind of things in, like, reflection. Right? You always, like, see the video. People always are fucking slowing it down, and they're looking at it. Right? It's like the same as when you're watching bag repairs because somebody died. But, like, when you're watching sports and you're like, how did that guy miss the fucking catch? And they're showing it in slow motion. They're like, look. It's, like, right in his hands. Plus, are things like, what you didn't see is, like, the mental game that's going on. What's going on? Like like, in that situation, there was obviously some kind of conflict. Those people were engaged in an argument. There were people around the car. Right? Mhmm. That guy, like, he is in a flight or fight mode. The guy that shot that lady. Right? And the car moved. He doesn't know what's gonna happen. He has point one second to make a decision. He made the wrong decision and killed this person that if you look at it in the video, right, was, like, trying to steer out of there, whatever, and murdered somebody. The response to it is what it gets very inappropriate, right, when you have all these people saying that, like, the guy's in the hospital shit, which is just not true.

Dan Austin: [24:50] Yeah. People want to win so bad on, like, an argument. It's, political all of a sudden.

Mike DeHaan: [24:54] But the problem is is, at that two second window when that happened, there's an infinite number of variables, and there are people that are fearing for their lives, and they're going to make decisions. And that decision will always intrinsically be in what will protect them. Right? And so, like, when it comes to any of these, like, police violence things and stuff that happens, it's so challenging because you'll look at those scenarios, and there's there's so many things. Like like, where it gets sketchy is, like, the George Floyd stuff, where he was, like, on his neck for, like, what, an hour. Yeah. You know, I was like, that's fucked up. Like, you had a long time to, like, change your mind. You didn't do it. When it comes to, like, this split second thing, it's a tragedy. It's it's bad all around. Like, there's no winning that argument. You know, like, is that guy supposed to just accept that he might have been hit by a car and not do that? No. Like, that's not realistic. Should that lady not have, like, tried to accelerate out of that situation? Probably, but she didn't know. They were gonna shoot her right there. Right? She was afraid. Yeah. There's there's no correct way to answer it.

Dan Austin: [25:47] I think the more challenging topic is is, like, so many people on social media are experts right now, and they're telling you what happened.

Mike DeHaan: [25:54] And they're watching the game tape. Right? I don't know.

Dan Austin: [25:56] I actually don't know what happened. I saw a news clip, which could be completely wrong, is that she came through the ICE investigation and tried to stop them from doing something. I also heard that their vehicle was stuck in the ditch, and they're trying to get it out. There's a lot of stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [26:09] There's, like, a 100 different angles online. There's all these people that were filming the whole thing. You can see it from all angles. It's fully open to interpretation, but it's impossible to see the mental patterns that were going on there.

Dan Austin: [26:21] Well, I guess what I'm saying too is like, I don't why was that lady there? What's my point? I don't have any idea why. And so

Mike DeHaan: [26:26] So they had, like, stand stop traffic. Like, there was, like, a series of cars, and she was trying to get out of the situation.

Dan Austin: [26:32] See, I don't know that.

Mike DeHaan: [26:33] There's cars in front of her that are stopped. There's cars behind her. There's all these ICE people on the street. There's all these people with cameras. I don't know what her deal was, and she was, like, just trying to fucking get to work. And she's like, what the hell is this going on? And then

Dan Austin: [26:43] She trying to get to the leering center, dude. Leave her alone.

Mike DeHaan: [26:45] Is that what was happening? I don't know.

Dan Austin: [26:46] I have

Mike DeHaan: [26:47] no idea.

Dan Austin: [26:47] That's what I saying. My point is I don't know. I'm not gonna pass judgment. I'm an asshole. I always tend to disagree whenever there's a police shooting because and this is a unique situation, and I'm not trying to apply it, I'm just trying to use my logic as somebody who's carried a gun before and done this as like a job. Not like not a police officer, but in the military. Like, I never will question the person that was behind the gun because you don't know what they saw. You physically don't know what they saw from their perspective. However, I'm an asshole, like I said, and anytime there's like a police shooting, I'm like, well, could you have controlled the situation better? And this one, I'm not going to say that because I don't know anything about it. And there was a car driving at the guy supposedly, I don't know, but in general, that's kind of my take is like, it's a, it's a tough thing. And so when I see all these people jumping on as experts that have probably never carried a gun or been in that position, it's like, give me a break to be for or against it. Yeah. Because nobody should be for it. No. It's not good.

Mike DeHaan: [27:37] Nobody should be for it. Being for it is is ridiculous. And looking at, like, the big picture about, like, why it happened, you can't, like, necessarily blame evil, all sorts of stuff. Like, where it's especially when you have, the ICE officer. Like, these are people that are in a role that did not exist a year ago. I get fucking ads on YouTube to go and apply to be an ICE officer.

Dan Austin: [27:55] I will say the counter to that too is is this could have been a guy that's been doing it for ten years, and he's just like, I have a pension.

Mike DeHaan: [28:02] Like, I know you hate me

Dan Austin: [28:03] because I'm doing this job because that this is what the Trump administration wants me to do. I've been doing this ten, fifteen, twenty years, and I'm, like, three years away from my pension, so I'm just not gonna get fired. Like, that guy might be facing that too. Might say it sucks. I don't know. People just get so wrapped up in what they want to see or believe. It's like, well, people aren't necessarily trying to be bad.

Mike DeHaan: [28:23] Yeah. And sometimes they

Dan Austin: [28:24] are. Maybe he was though. He could also be a psychotic murderer.

Mike DeHaan: [28:27] You know what? I also think that there are those guys that are in that position that are out for blood just like there was people 100%. That went to war because they're like, I wanna fucking kill people. I wanna kill the bad guys. 100%.

Dan Austin: [28:37] Yes. And when the people in America become the bad guy, then you're kinda like, stuff. Yeah. So Anyways, they don't do that shit in Washington. They don't do that in Washington.

Mike DeHaan: [28:47] How are feeling, Dylan?

Dylan Koch: [28:48] I'm fine. I was just checking my email. Well, this is how I

Mike DeHaan: [28:53] know you don't do real business because your keyboard was quiet as shit. So Yeah. I

Dylan Koch: [28:57] said checking. I wasn't doing it, man. So I was trying to get you guys some loan docs earlier. That's what I was

Mike DeHaan: [29:02] telling I know. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [29:04] We'll get that done. Alright. You got distracted. Mike and I love this stuff.

Dylan Koch: [29:07] Well, for the people who are still in the off market business, one thing, this should just be real quick, that I have done that has revived some old leads is just reach out to some people you haven't talked to in two or three months and start a conversation with, hey. It's, you know, 2026. Tax situation changed. People's goals changed. People's plans changed. You know, what are you trying to do with, you know, 123 Main Street? And I bet I've reached out to about 50 people since the new year. And two of them, think, are gonna be deals. Nice. And, you know, those are leads that are just sitting there in the CRM that are free, not free marketing dollars. You already spent it, but you don't spend more.

Dan Austin: [29:39] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [29:40] So I don't know. I'd say that's a good tactic people can use to hopefully drive some more revenue to their business.

Dan Austin: [29:45] I think that's that's super valid because people like, it's human nature to have some, like, invisible demarcation from December 31 to January 1. And especially if it was a lead that came in that November time frame where people

Mike DeHaan: [29:57] are like, well, I'll just talk to

Dan Austin: [29:58] you after the holidays because, like, they apparently just shut down for the holidays. Especially if you're in the northern climates like we all are. Like, when there's snow and people just don't wanna do anything, you call them January though, they're ready to pop off and sell their house all of sudden.

Dylan Koch: [30:09] And some of these boomer people, they just they would do everything in their power not to pay uncle Sam. They So only sell one property a year. So Yeah. They'll you're like, hey. And actually, some of these, you know, I've already sold a property for them before. So it's like, hey, man. It's a new year. What are you gonna do with this other property? Yeah.

Dan Austin: [30:26] What are you peeling off the portfolio? Yeah. You wanna know how funny that is? I Mike and I have this situation. So we we bought this house on seller financing because the guy didn't wanna pay taxes and he didn't want his Medicare or, yeah, Medicare premiums to go up to show income. So we were just paying him $600 principal only. No interest. Just every we've been paying him for what? Four or five years, Mike? Anyways, we sold the property. He's like, I don't want the money back. He doesn't want it back so bad that he gave us an unsecured loan for the rest.

Mike DeHaan: [30:54] They're like, keep it

Dan Austin: [30:54] in your bank account.

Dylan Koch: [30:55] Wait. Shut up. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [30:57] We've just had this dude's money sitting in our bank account for, like, eight months.

Dan Austin: [31:01] Yes. And you know what? We're honest abes over here. We haven't done it's been sitting in our bank account. We haven't done anything with it. We just write him a check for $600. So the note itself, the original note was due six, seven days ago. And I emailed the we work with his son because the guy's a little bit older. And I was like, hey, we've got the money. Tell me how he wants the money, a check. I'll meet him a bag of cash. I don't care. If he's really worried about taxes, I'm happy to keep paying him $600 a month. He's like, okay. Let me talk to my dad about it. So I think he's just gonna give us the money.

Dylan Koch: [31:33] I hope you pay him in cash, like a duffel bag.

Dan Austin: [31:36] But so much to avoid taxes. He's like, I do not don't give me my money. I don't know who you guys are, basically. He really doesn't. We only talked to him, like, three times.

Mike DeHaan: [31:44] Yeah. We should, like, really do something with that, though.

Dylan Koch: [31:46] But that's a good the taxes one part. But, honestly, like, the older people are going to that Medicare. That's a real concern for So if you can structure deals, kind of like you guys did, you're going win more deal deals than other people.

Dan Austin: [31:57] Yeah. Yeah. That does help. It is a significant job. I've talked to my father-in-law about that recently because he's on Medicare and having to deal with like the RMDs and stuff like that. And he's basically like, yeah, now I'm gonna have to, you know, pay 25% tax or whatever it is. And then all of my Medicare goes up. So it's like, damn, you know, but he's at a point where he's forced to do it.

Dylan Koch: [32:14] Yeah. There's a chain effect

Mike DeHaan: [32:15] to that. I know. And where it gets very significant is when it's going back to the beginning of the show, those people that all of their value is in their house, They have no other income. They have no other assets, and so they're going to sell this house. It's appreciated a shit ton. So even though it's their primary residence, they still pay capital gains on it. Mhmm. Right? And it's gonna affect their Medicare.

Dylan Koch: [32:35] Wait. What do you mean? Why would they have to pay capital? Oh, because they're over the threshold? Mhmm. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [32:39] Yeah. I don't know if you have that where you're at. But here, we do.

Dan Austin: [32:41] Yeah. What's the threshold right now?

Dylan Koch: [32:43] It's $2.50 if you're single, 500 if you're married.

Dan Austin: [32:45] Still have 500. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [32:47] Yeah. So we have some of these people out in North Idaho that, like, they bought their house for, like, $60 and some Cracker Jacks, like, even that long ago in, like, the nineties. Now they can sell things for 700.

Dan Austin: [32:58] Dude, I'd have that problem in my house right now, damn it. Like, and I bought it five years ago. Like, we had a run up.

Mike DeHaan: [33:03] Yeah. You know? Yeah. You do. Because you got you got a deal on yours and your, you know, your house is, like, prime for the area. But that that affects so many things. And and when it's rental property, it's even worse. Like, there was a series of time, I feel like in '21 especially, where you had a lot of these older there was, like, widowers or something that had a rental property that was, like, their husband owned or it was an old primary residence. So I'd say even, like, their son that lived there. Right? And COVID happened, and the tenant, even if it was the son, just, like, stopped paying. Right? And they're like, well, I don't wanna, like, kick my son out. So I'll sell you the house for 50¢ and a dollar, and then you can fucking take care of Timmy.

Dan Austin: [33:39] Deal with this? Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [33:40] Then you show up, and the son's, like, 55 and just like an asshole. You're like, oh my god. Yeah. But those situations, you go into it, and multiple times we would run into where, like, they were going to get completely screwed because their Social Security would take such a huge jump. And the gains that they were gonna be getting weren't enough to cover that long, like, not even like the next ten years, right, of Social Security for them. Like, if they're only making, like, $1.20 on their house. Right? And so it's it was always a challenge.

Dylan Koch: [34:06] This is actually when seller financing can come in

Mike DeHaan: [34:08] because Totally.

Dylan Koch: [34:09] You know, you do it. And if you do the low interest or, like, no interest, like, you don't pay income tax on principal. You only pay it on interest accrued.

Mike DeHaan: [34:16] So yeah. So basically, you pay income tax on the interest that you pay every year. And then your capital gains, if you have capital gains, those basically are it's like prorated. So you only pay capital gains on the principal that gets paid down every single year. Right.

Dylan Koch: [34:29] Which also includes a down payment. Like, you got a down payment on top of that. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [34:32] Which includes down payment. Correct. Yeah. You pay capital gains on that. So, you know, there's there's lots of different ways it could be structured to be effective, but then you gotta find someone that understands that is gonna be okay with that, which is a whole other ballgame.

Dylan Koch: [34:44] You know, this is like here's another tactic for people, which I've said before, is trying to sell a house. It's kind of in a crappy part of town, but I did, like, the cash buyer radius search. Like, who's bought cash, like, near here? But if you try to wholesale a deal to someone who doesn't know what wholesaling is, it is very challenging. Yeah. And, eventually, they just didn't do it because I could not educate them enough on what this actually is saying. They thought I was the sleaziest guy ever. But

Mike DeHaan: [35:07] Mhmm. Yeah. Well, so talk sleazy on this front. So my neighbors across the street, awesome people, talked to them about what we do and everything, and they kind of got an interest in in this. And they own a landscaping contracting company. They want to flip a house. So I connected them with some wholesalers. They've looking at stuff, and they'll send me a deal. One came through, they wanna put an offer on. K? And I'm, like, talking to him. I'm like, I don't really like this deal, you know, and we're going back and forth. And then he he calls me.

Dan Austin: [35:33] Who's the wholesaler?

Mike DeHaan: [35:34] It was not who we're thinking of.

Dylan Koch: [35:36] Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [35:36] Yeah. Yeah. It was it's a different company. I'm not gonna say who it was. Tell later.

Dan Austin: [35:39] You can tell me later. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [35:41] So it comes through and he and he's like, yeah. He's like, so I was looking to make an offer on the house, and then I need a real estate agent to represent me on the purchase. Because you'd understand that it was, like, an assignment. Right? And then I called her. She called the wholesaler, and then I don't know why, but the price went up. And I was like, this bitch. And I was like, what? And he was kinda, like, walking me through it. And I was like, oh, so here's what happened.

Dylan Koch: [36:04] The realtor is trying to get their fee?

Mike DeHaan: [36:05] Is the realtor figured out there wasn't a fee. So they are now charging you more money to represent. And I was like, just so you know, you don't have to use an agent if you're buying a wholesale deal. You just work directly Oh.

Dan Austin: [36:15] With the wholesaler. They had an agent with them?

Mike DeHaan: [36:17] Well, so yeah. So he contacted an agent that he knew to represent him, and and it was significant. It was like a $2.50 was the original price and all a sudden she's like, yeah. It's gonna be $2.65 now. It was like $15,000 on this thing.

Dan Austin: [36:29] Dude, if he needs an agent, I'll do that.

Dylan Koch: [36:31] Right? No shit. No way.

Dan Austin: [36:32] I'll make $15.

Mike DeHaan: [36:33] I was like, can tell her to to f off. He's like, yeah. It was that really kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I'm like, yeah. It should. Because that's bad.

Dylan Koch: [36:39] Yeah. Like Yeah. Right.

Dan Austin: [36:41] Right. I wanna know the ages, Damian. You tell me off air.

Dylan Koch: [36:43] Was the deal even good?

Mike DeHaan: [36:44] Nah. It was trash.

Dylan Koch: [36:45] Yeah. Was gonna say.

Mike DeHaan: [36:46] I was like, if I was buying this, I'd want it at, $222.25. You know? And then by the time the agent got it, it was, $2.64 or some shit, and it was reaching at $2.50. And I was like, yeah.

Dylan Koch: [36:55] You know what I I love that I don't see anymore? I don't see the three daisy chain HUD's anymore. Yeah. Like, I that was a thing a while ago. Oh my god. It's gone.

Mike DeHaan: [37:04] Yeah. Well well, now they've gotten more clever on that. Now they just double close, you don't see it at all.

Dylan Koch: [37:08] Yeah. I mean, you could still, like, find that out, though. But, yeah, you're right.

Mike DeHaan: [37:11] Yeah. Anyways. Alright, guys. Well, anything else to

Dan Austin: [37:15] wrap up? I'm good. We got to talk about all my favorite topics today.

Mike DeHaan: [37:18] There we go. Not fatties. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [37:20] Not fatties. No fatties. No fatties.

Mike DeHaan: [37:22] Yeah. Goddamn. Your algorithm your algorithm is fucked, Dan.

Dan Austin: [37:27] Bro, you sent me the first one. I was just telling you who he looks like.

Mike DeHaan: [37:30] Yeah. That's true. But what do you

Dan Austin: [37:32] guys think?

Mike DeHaan: [37:32] Do you guys wanna have Greg on next week?

Dan Austin: [37:33] Let's get Gregory back. Yeah. Alright.

Dylan Koch: [37:35] I'm good with Greg.

Mike DeHaan: [37:35] Right on. Hit me up. So next week, we will have Greg Helbeck, friend of the show, come and hang out with us for an hour. So if you have kids in the car while he's on, make sure that they have their earmuffs on. It's funny. Last time he was on, my my dad listened, and he was like, like, that guy you had on, he was really funny. He's like, god. His language was atrocious. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [37:53] He's straight

Dylan Koch: [37:54] out of New York, man. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [37:55] So but alright.

Mike DeHaan: [37:57] So look forward to that next time, and, thanks for listening, everybody, and we'll see you guys next week.

Dan Austin: [38:01] See you. See you all.

Mike DeHaan: [38:02] This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which, if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get the closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose to follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.