Mortgage Rates Fell… So Why Didn’t Investors Win?

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] This is kind of the problem with, like, the private equity invasion of everything is there's like, that recurring cash flow is such a desirable metric that it's invaded everything.

Dan Austin: [0:11] I'm gonna live the best, awesomest life, so you might as well do it. And I think we've, like, determined that the drugs and things aren't that bad for you.

Mike DeHaan: [0:18] Yeah. I mean, like, if you look at a lot of celebrities, the ones who are, like, you know, 70 years old, 80 years old, Arnold Schwarzenegger, they'll, like, still look like pretty good and are moving pretty good. I mean, you really think the only difference between him and, like, your grandparents is that they exercise more?

Dan Austin: [0:34] No. Absolutely

Mike DeHaan: [0:35] not. They got some chemical help. They got some special vitamins.

Dan Austin: [0:38] And what if you live you know, instead of living till 95, you live to 94. But for, like the thirty years before that, felt way more awesome than you would

Mike DeHaan: [0:45] have otherwise. I mean, it makes perfect sense to me. I don't know.

Dan Austin: [0:47] I'm all about optimization, dude. Spend the money, do it.

Mike DeHaan: [0:50] Having family that's gone through that end of life period recently where they are just like not really functional. My grandfather was a rocket scientist, worked at JPL, was a professor at USC, super smart guy, retired. Bro, he doesn't even, like, know his name anymore.

Dan Austin: [1:09] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [1:10] He's been like that for years. I'm like, that sucks. Nobody else sucks.

Dylan Koch: [1:12] If I get to that, it's like euthanize me. Like, I don't wanna

Dan Austin: [1:15] And I guess good chance of that happening to most people. Right? And so, like, guess a higher chance than not when you get into elderly ages. Right? And so you might as well live like an awesome life before that.

Mike DeHaan: [1:25] Mhmm. Exactly. And if you don't, and if you're gonna wait to do shit when you get old, then I don't know. I feel like you're doing it wrong.

Dan Austin: [1:32] Yep. Take care of body. Do drugs. Yeah. Good drugs. Not

Mike DeHaan: [1:35] bad drugs. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [1:36] Good drugs.

Mike DeHaan: [1:38] What's going on, guys? Welcome to the Collecting Keys podcast. I am Mike DeHaan here with my cohost, Dan Austin and Dylan When are we gonna rebrand this thing since we aren't in real estate anymore? I feel like like we need to we need to have this discussion.

Dylan Koch: [1:53] Well, at least one third of your of your hosts are.

Mike DeHaan: [1:57] For now.

Dylan Koch: [1:58] Yeah. For now. Yeah. For now.

Dan Austin: [2:00] Was the name I came up with? I can't remember what you and I were messaging about.

Mike DeHaan: [2:04] Like collecting cash flow because I feel like it keeps the collecting brand. Yeah. But it just pivots to something different. I don't hate that one. Right?

Dan Austin: [2:11] I'm just trying to fall in love with it.

Mike DeHaan: [2:13] The only problem is it's a it's so similar to CCF, which, like, which is Ryan Dossi's program.

Dan Austin: [2:20] It's the exact same acronym.

Mike DeHaan: [2:21] Which we came from. It's the same, but his is create cash flow. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [2:25] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [2:25] Right? And remember, it used to

Dan Austin: [2:26] be we're OGs. It used to be create consistent cash flow, c c c f.

Mike DeHaan: [2:30] I know. That's true. So you you already rebranded. Yeah. Which have to be like, what, like, c c flow? Like, that that sounds like a rapper. I love that guy. He's great. Is that is that the rapper that got killed at 24 that I hear about every other week that I've never heard of before? Must be.

Dylan Koch: [2:44] To round out the the health discussion, going back a little bit, did you see that the the proposal from like Trump to like, basically subsidize all the GLP-one weight loss drugs is that if people are healthier, not spending as much money on medication that they could spend that money elsewhere on the economy, and that that should be like a GDP peruse from basically making people less fat?

Dan Austin: [3:05] Hey, the logic sound. I just don't see that happening because what happens is GLP-1s become cheap and then fat people get on them and they stay fat because they just keep eating. Like, that's what happens. I don't even know really the size by GLP-1s. I do know that maybe it makes you eat less. Does it

Mike DeHaan: [3:20] make you Well, eat

Dylan Koch: [3:20] yeah, you make you feel full earlier.

Dan Austin: [3:22] So it doesn't actually do anything inside of you?

Mike DeHaan: [3:24] So I I was talking to my friend who's a nurse practitioner. Like, this is what he does. He's like Vitality. If you know Pete Dam. I know Pete. And was asking him, like, what do GLP ones actually do? Because we were talking about a friend of ours who's a guy that we've both known for a long time that is, like, athletic dude. He's been, like, trying to, like, cut weight forever. Like, I worked with him back when I was in the gym. He never really lost weight. And all of a sudden, he, like, has magically. And I was like, he has to be on Ozempic or something. Right? And so I was asking him, like, what does it actually make a change? Because with my experience with this guy, I can tell you for a fact his main problems was, too much consumption of beer, and he just had a shitty diet. And I can promise you, he did not change those things overnight Right. After trying to do it for the previous, like, ten years. Yep. And so, like, there must be some kind of physiological change. And he was saying that it actually does, create, like, a difference to how your body responds to glucose and burns body fat. The problem is is that only exists while you're on it. And so what tends to happen is people will go on, you know, the weight loss drugs. They'll lose a bunch of weight. They have suppressed appetite. They're burning glucose.

Mike DeHaan: [4:35] They're doing these different things. Their metabolism will down regulate so that it's super low, and then they don't know how to reverse diet. So then what happens is they go off of it, they get hungry again, their body stops burning glucose, and they like do what most people do when they've never got weight before, and they go eat a bunch of shit. And the the weight doesn't just, like, slowly come back on, but it comes on fast because your body's glucose regulation is also all fucked up. And so I don't know. It's just like all the other kind of stuff. Right? Like, it is a tool, but if you abuse it or you don't use it correctly, then you're gonna have problems.

Dylan Koch: [5:09] It's a drug manufacturer's dream. This is just recurring revenue. Right? It doesn't fix any underlying problem. It fix what what you want, your symptom being fat, but you have

Mike DeHaan: [5:18] to stay on it forever. You're in that space where you were when you were a pharmacist. But like is that part of the model that these pharmaceutical companies really strive for is like a recurring revenue piece and like how long they expect the average person to be on those?

Dylan Koch: [5:36] So we never got any like direct like talking to a drug manufacturer saying like explicitly yes. However, if you look at new patents of what drugs are actually being researched and development and what are coming on the market, A lot of them are autoimmune drugs, which things are people are on forever, they just suppress symptoms. And things like new antibiotics, those have not come out in a very long time, because there's no money in them. Because one, the actual substances that make them are pretty cheap, like the natural resource, but two, people have an infection for one or two weeks and then it's gone, right? So underlying incentives and what actually has come to market would tell you, yes.

Mike DeHaan: [6:13] This is kind of the problem with like the private equity invasion of everything is there's like, that recurring cash flow is such a desirable metric that it's invaded everything. Right? Like, my last car that I had, if I wanted to have remote start, it was a $10 a month subscription. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? Like, the the thing was there. It's basically just like if I didn't pay it, they just deactivated it. You know? And they've talked about it with, like, all these different Teslas and things. My parents, they joined a medical facility because they wanted to get out of, like, the whole Southern California. Like, all the hospitals are always packed. You know, they're older. They have, like, regular needs. So they have this doctor that essentially you pay an annual fee to be able to go to the doctor. Concierge medicine. It's concierge medicine. There's no other cost outside of that. Yeah. You can go there and, like, do all your stuff. And sure, if you have to refer to outpatient, you have to pay for all that kind of stuff. But, like, just to do, like, your checkups, blood work, scans, whatever, you just, like, pay him a recurring thing. But it's very specific that it has to be, a recurring basis. You know? It's not like, oh, yeah. Can you pay me one time?

Dylan Koch: [7:19] There are trend deals with, like, HVAC companies now, like, you know, and stuff like that. So it is all over. A lot of it is private equity focused because all they see is recurring revenue equals higher sales multiple.

Dan Austin: [7:30] Yeah. Dude, it's all the same freaking shtick too, because I don't know if you guys are getting this now. But like I know one of our local HVAC companies got bought up by private equity. And I have like two or three now, they just text me, hey, by the way, the seasons are changing. And I have never used these HVAC companies. Gee, would you like us to do a service? It's a free inspection. Like, it's the same model for all these private doesn't matter what industry it is.

Dylan Koch: [7:52] You should text back. Oh, I don't remember opting in. Here comes your lawsuit for texting me.

Dan Austin: [7:56] Exactly, though. And these are big companies, right, that are doing these things. So it's highly illegal what they're doing. Like but it's the same playbook. It's like they go to the private equity conferences, and they're like, well, this is how you increase revenue. You gotta get leads, and we just use these texting platforms.

Dylan Koch: [8:09] If any trade service comes up to your house and they have a tablet, you're getting ripped off.

Dan Austin: [8:14] Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [8:16] But it's a huge thing that they look at too when they evaluate your business. So like these handful of workshops I did at acquisition.com, they have, like, their whole scorecard that they put together with how they analyze businesses that they are looking to acquire. And it was built off of what they went through with their investment bankers when they sold Gym Launch. And the recurring revenue piece is one of the highest rated things. Like, that matters even more than, like, top line revenue. Yeah. Like, if you can show recurring revenue growing over a, like, long term basis and it's subscription based like that and you have low churn of your clients, that is worth significantly more than high revenue.

Dan Austin: [8:54] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [8:54] Yeah. And what's worse is what they do is like, because I tried to cancel my wife's Planet Fitness and like, oh, no. No. No. You she has to come in physically and say, I wanna cancel this. Like, are you freaking kidding me? Like, no.

Dan Austin: [9:05] Oh, yeah. They make it really hard.

Dylan Koch: [9:07] Yeah. Yeah. So of course, you paid it for, two additional months before that happens. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [9:11] I had one of those during COVID. It was a gym that I used to go to, and I wanted to cancel. Needed to go in there physically to do it. That's what the person told me via email. Must have been like a VA or something. And I was like, the gym is closed. Like, how do I go in there physically to do it?

Dan Austin: [9:24] It's a pandemic.

Mike DeHaan: [9:25] Yeah. We're in a pandemic right now. Like, what are you And talking I had to go back and forth for months until finally someone called me like six months later and was like, yeah, we'll give

Dan Austin: [9:33] you all your money back.

Mike DeHaan: [9:35] Crazy. So dumb.

Dan Austin: [9:37] Yeah. That is super dumb.

Mike DeHaan: [9:38] Well, what's going on, big picture Dylan? Did you stay up and eat some popcorn watching the State of the Union address?

Dylan Koch: [9:44] I actually didn't watch any of the State of the Union, but I saw some highlights on Twitter.

Dan Austin: [9:48] Yeah. Didn't even I didn't realize it was on.

Mike DeHaan: [9:50] Nobody It's funny. I saw this this this little tweet from what's the medical lady that went to jail for all the fraud? You know what I'm talking about?

Dylan Koch: [10:00] Oh, yes. I do. She did, like, the test tube labs.

Dan Austin: [10:02] The Theron's.

Mike DeHaan: [10:03] Uh-huh. Yeah. What's her name?

Dan Austin: [10:05] Something Theron's? The girl with the black box blood testing thing?

Dylan Koch: [10:07] Elizabeth Holmes.

Dan Austin: [10:08] Elizabeth Holmes.

Mike DeHaan: [10:09] Elizabeth Holmes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it was like a little tweet from her, and basically, was like which is she's in prison, so it's funny that she has social media, but I don't know whatever. I don't know how prison works. And she she was complaining that they let everyone have extended recreational hours to watch the BET Awards, but they wouldn't let her, stay up to watch the State of the Union address. Then then the comment on it was when you're what what was saying? It's like, when you don't wanna fully support the administration, but you desperately need that, like, presidential pardon because she's been one of the people that's been, like, all week for it. Yeah. Yeah. But she also, like, previously was very outspoken against Trump.

Dan Austin: [10:49] She definitely doesn't deserve a pardon.

Mike DeHaan: [10:51] No. Oh, absolutely not. She's like actual criminal. She's terrible here. But yeah. I mean, point being, I think, I don't know, do people actually watch that? Has anybody ever watched the State of Union regardless of who the administration is? I can't imagine.

Dan Austin: [11:00] I enjoy it. I like to watch them, and I haven't I didn't even know this one was happening. Maybe it's just my life is too busy, but I didn't even know it was

Dylan Koch: [11:06] I feel like I remember my parents watching them.

Dan Austin: [11:08] They're getting really political lately. Like, the last, what, eight years, twelve years, it's just been a whole, like, yelling match and just kind of stupid. Yeah. Totally. Who stands for what? Who claps for what? It's just, like, dumb.

Mike DeHaan: [11:20] And there's so much, like, political showcasing, like, bullshit. Like, there was the guy that had, like, the sign that said, like, you know, black people aren't apes. Like, I agree. But, like, is this the appropriate place to do that? I don't know. It it just feels so absurd. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [11:37] But if you're asking in the real estate stuff or go on. Keep your rant going. Wait.

Mike DeHaan: [11:40] You're gonna defend that? Like Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [11:42] No. No. No. No. No. I said it with the real estate.

Dan Austin: [11:44] It's a great thing.

Mike DeHaan: [11:45] Yeah. The whole point like, you said that your parents used to watch it, but also twenty years ago, thirty years ago, there was nothing else to do.

Dan Austin: [11:51] It's true.

Dylan Koch: [11:52] Yeah. I know.

Mike DeHaan: [11:52] My parents probably also watched sixty Minutes every Sunday. I know mine did.

Dylan Koch: [11:55] Oh, 100%.

Dan Austin: [11:56] Could not see Jake Paul boxing back then.

Dylan Koch: [11:58] Yeah. A 100%. But they weren't rotting their brains in seven second Vine videos either.

Mike DeHaan: [12:05] Yeah. So is there like anything important that came out of that we need talk about, or can

Dylan Koch: [12:08] we just move on? I think we can just move on.

Dan Austin: [12:10] I don't think so. There's probably nothing, you know, economic either that came out of it.

Mike DeHaan: [12:15] I did see there was a Cauchy bet going when it was how many times is he going to say huge?

Dylan Koch: [12:20] Oh, I saw it for, like, billions or trillions. That was what I saw.

Mike DeHaan: [12:23] Yeah. Yeah. So well, there's lots of those. But there was, like, what was his huge count gonna be? Was this a specific one? It was, like, over under seven and a half or something. But I thought that was pretty funny. But so, anyway, while outside of that, the, like, big picture stuff, rates are down for homeowners, you said. I mean, you say you've seen a pickup with your listings. It hasn't really affected much on the private money side. But like, are they actually sub five now if

Dylan Koch: [12:49] I hope someone buy a home and they bought down the rate a little bit, but it was five and a half FHA. Okay. So thirty year fix with a small rate buy down. So I remember talking on the podcast previously that there were some DSCR stuff that was more competitive than owner occupied stuff. And so I'm just like, now that these are coming down, I know they trade a little bit differently. I didn't know if that was still No. Where they were at comparatively, I guess is my point.

Mike DeHaan: [13:12] They might trail and come down a little bit. Like what we've been seeing in, like, the SDR side is that the rates are not moving, but their box is getting bigger.

Dylan Koch: [13:19] Okay. That makes sense.

Mike DeHaan: [13:20] So you're starting to see the same rates, but it will apply to more people. And so, like, it used to be, like, you needed to be premier credit, this experience, whatever, to get the best pricing. Now it's like they're having a little more flex on credit rating and those sort things, but it's still generally the same pricing, which I don't think will change that much just because there's such a huge appetite for that debt. They don't need to drop their rates. You know? And so what'll happen is, like, all of the funds that, like, companies like us sell to you that then sell it to the big, big buyers, they will just make more money because they're gonna be originating at the same rate from us, and then they're just gonna sell it at a bigger premium upstream, which is how private money generally works. And it's funny. So, like, that's typically not supposed to be how conventional loans work, but there's actually the was this huge lawsuit with this, Optimal Blue. You remember, we talked about that on here, I think. It was like a loan pricing platform that, like, Wells Fargo and all these big Fannie Freddie lenders normally use.

Dan Austin: [14:17] Yeah. They're colluding to keep prices high or whatever.

Mike DeHaan: [14:19] Yeah. So essentially, like, back when interest rates were awesome, you know, three and a quarter, three and a for everybody, they could have been significantly cheaper. But all of the people that are, like, basically, the back end buyers that show up on Optimal Blue, they colluded to keep the rates higher so they could make a fucking killing selling it for Yeah. Super premium rates.

Dylan Koch: [14:39] It's just like when if some landlords in the general area all agree to keep rents high.

Mike DeHaan: [14:43] Like Exactly. Yeah. You know? Which also happens. I mean, that happened in Spokane. This is a big thing right now.

Dan Austin: [14:48] When did this happen in Spokane?

Mike DeHaan: [14:49] Like, in the last year.

Dan Austin: [14:50] Oh, really?

Mike DeHaan: [14:50] Yeah. I didn't hear about it. There's currently an active lawsuit against Is it alleged? No. It's proven. That one of them actually fessed up to it and basically threw the others under the bus. It's all the property management companies that do all of, like, the Douglas's apartments and, you know, whatever the other big families are that owned kinda, like, the really shitty apartments. They all were essentially, like what they were doing is they were letting people know what the traffic was on, like, different prices so that people knew, like, not to go below that.

Dan Austin: [15:18] Oh, they're, like, publishing statistics?

Mike DeHaan: [15:20] We well, not publishing statistics. They're basically, like, sharing, like, hey. We got a lot of interest, like, at this price, so you can definitely, like, make all of your new ones be, like, higher than that.

Dan Austin: [15:29] I mean, it seems reasonable.

Mike DeHaan: [15:32] Yeah. The problem with all that sort of stuff is is once it starts to be detrimental It's a slippery slope. To the people that are already like really kind of stretching, that's when people have a problem.

Dan Austin: [15:41] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [15:41] It's weird because like real estate to prove that real estate is like so an inside game, like, there are people like if you know someone at the, I don't know, development committee that like, I don't know, there's our inside things that people know, or like deals that come to market that other people just don't know about. Right? It's not an even playing ground.

Mike DeHaan: [15:57] Of course. Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [15:57] And that's okay. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. But I guess I'm saying there's more inside information on real estate than there is anything else.

Dan Austin: [16:03] Especially in real estate. Yeah. We see it a lot in our market on the commercial side. It's an interesting stat I heard recently that once insider trading was made illegal, Warren Buffett's returns actually just went to average. So if you look at his returns over a long period of time, his returns used to be above average because he had so much good information coming to him. But once that information became illegal, he basically his returns kind of trended back towards the market averages, but he is so big.

Dylan Koch: [16:29] I saw this. My only counterpoint to that is he was still like a $100,000,000,000 funds. Like going from zero to his size was a lot easier than going from a 100,000,000,000 to higher than that.

Dan Austin: [16:38] Sure. Oh, yeah.

Dylan Koch: [16:40] Because the buckets you have to invest in are a lot smaller.

Dan Austin: [16:42] Yes. Yeah, totally dude. And with that, I don't think it takes away, it should be said to take away from what he did to get to where he's at. Because I think there's a lot of that. It's not all insider trading. Because if that was the case, there'd be other people with big funds like that. But

Dylan Koch: [16:55] it's just Right.

Dan Austin: [16:56] It shows how powerful information is in the right hands.

Dylan Koch: [17:00] This is like those, Polymarket or Kolschi things of like, someone just create an account, put a $100 on this, like, probability And of of seven then like it hits and they get like, fucking $10,000,000 or something like that.

Mike DeHaan: [17:11] It's like it's like Trevor Noah saying whatever he what do you say? Like, potato at the Oscars. This is a joke. He actually got, like, investigated for this. As he was, like, talking, he stopped, and he goes, potato. And he goes, someone just made a shit ton of money on Polymarket.

Dylan Koch: [17:26] Yeah. What? That's hilarious. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [17:29] Yeah. Because theoretically, you could go on Polymarket and see what's trending as an individual and then go and make that thing happen.

Dylan Koch: [17:35] Yeah. What I don't understand is like the sports betting and NIL, or even in the NBA and stuff. Like, if you make $50,000,000, why are you trying to get like another $250 from this betting? It's so stupid.

Mike DeHaan: [17:47] Because it's fun.

Dylan Koch: [17:48] Why not? Like, jail is not fun.

Mike DeHaan: [17:51] Sure it is. I make good money. Why do am I putting $200 on fucking Sydney Sweeney showing up the Super Bowl? What else am I gonna do with it? And I lost that money. Yeah. So it wasn't fucking there.

Dylan Koch: [18:01] Yeah. Dude, they have a direct impact in that. These are people betting on their own games. That are

Mike DeHaan: [18:05] like That's true. That does seem weird. Right? Yeah. And you do see stuff like that. And there's, actually on the by default, like, Cal sheets separate it. And there will be people that'll be like, this has to have been rigged. Right? And it'll be like college basketball game where the split is, like, you know, eight and a half. Like, the game's over and the dude has like a breakaway layup and he like misses it. Like, kinda like almost like intentionally. And you're like, come on dude. You're you're at the line. Like, it just doesn't make sense. And I would imagine there's probably a lot more of that going on than you'd realize.

Dylan Koch: [18:36] Some of them have got caught. Like, Chauncey Billups is the biggest one in the NBA because he was a coach that got caught too. And like, you see him sub players that just didn't make sense. I already put like, I don't wanna go on a tangent on this, but this is like the after footage is like, this looks pretty obvious.

Mike DeHaan: [18:49] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to some of, the the bigger stuff. I mean, even, like, you can, you you can bet on Trump saying different things or stuff's going on in politics. Right? You're really telling me that the speech writer isn't, like, going and, like, saying, like, oh, he's gonna say, like, this word. Totally. Right? And he's going and he's, like, putting all of his money because he knows it's gonna happen. Yeah. Like, why wouldn't you do that? I would do that. Yeah. 100%. Especially if you're a nobody, so, like, nobody cares. Like, people aren't gonna think twice that you just made $10

Dan Austin: [19:18] on that. So should that be illegal, do you think?

Mike DeHaan: [19:21] Absolutely. It should be illegal.

Dan Austin: [19:22] It's interesting. But why? Who's losing?

Mike DeHaan: [19:24] So basically, all the people that bet against it because you take all their money. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [19:28] I guess I I understand that.

Dylan Koch: [19:30] Yeah. The people who are betting without the inside

Mike DeHaan: [19:31] information. You know, it's it's the same as if you went, like, gambling and you looked at, the next card up, and you're like, I bet that that's a check. Right? And then you're the only one that knows, and you convince all these other people to bet on it, and then you steal all their money. You can't do that.

Dan Austin: [19:44] Yeah. But it's it's just your free choice to go bet on that a dumb thing like what Trump's gonna say, knowing that somebody could cheat.

Dylan Koch: [19:50] For sure. Have you seen the reverse Jim Kramer performance

Dan Austin: [19:55] No. Thing? No. I haven't. Is it good?

Dylan Koch: [19:57] Basically, there's there's two things on autopilot. There's the reverse Jim Kramer. So to do the opposite of what Effrey says. And then there's the Nancy Pelosi insider trading one.

Mike DeHaan: [20:05] Yep. Oh,

Dylan Koch: [20:06] yeah. The opposite of Jim Kramer beats insider training. Really? That's how bad this dude is.

Dan Austin: [20:13] Bad is something. He's been on TV for so long, though.

Dylan Koch: [20:16] Yeah. I know, man. This is funny. The doing the opposite of what he says literally beats insider training, which is to me, it blows my mind.

Dan Austin: [20:22] That is funny.

Mike DeHaan: [20:23] He's like cursed person. Like, do you think that's do you think that's his way of like, is that part of his brand now, you think? Like, he intentionally goes against his the insider knowledge that he probably gets?

Dylan Koch: [20:34] I think he's a puppet. I think people are like like people tell him, like, just like, hey, this is what we want you to say. You're like, alright, you know, you pay me lots of money.

Dan Austin: [20:42] I think so. I think anybody that go on those like business talk shows and like talk about things that they've got to be in trying to influence markets and do things like that. There's no other reason why they would do

Mike DeHaan: [20:52] it. Of course. Yeah. Know? 100%. Do you guys ever watch Succession? Like, the full series due to the end? I think I did.

Dylan Koch: [20:58] I have not.

Mike DeHaan: [20:59] As you get into the final seasons of it because it's pretty much about the with the family that own Fox, Murdochs? No.

Dylan Koch: [21:05] What are they called? Those are the Turners.

Mike DeHaan: [21:07] Whoever it is. But either way, like, essentially, like, the the family is based around the Fox News family that could have, like, built that whole empire. Right? And it's not the same. It's not like a biopic, but it is these there are a lot of parallels, you know, to, like, how they do everything. And at like, as you get into later seasons, there's, a whole presidential election. And the whole thing about it is, like, how do they manipulate what the people are saying and where do they actually show that news so that it gets, like, the most buzz from people. Yeah. Right? To the point that they're, like, only releasing things in, like, certain states that are, like, anti democrat or pro whatever. Right. Purely because they know it'll make people do the opposite thing. Oh, interesting. And essentially what they do is they sway the entire presidential election because of that. The really crazy thing is when that season came out, it was actually before Trump got elected. Mhmm. But the parallels are wild. Like looking at it, they predicted all the stuff that ultimately ended up happening.

Dan Austin: [22:05] It's definitely not a leap to think that media companies are trying to manipulate things. Right? No. I believe it. A 100%. Mean, you just look at the headlines that they're trying to do. Right? And it's beyond viewership now where you you would have thought before it was like, it's just based about viewership because then more marketing money. I think that's a big part of it, except for then when those companies that hold the marketing dollars control what you say Mhmm. Because they are also lining the pockets of the politicians keep those people. It's just like a whole it's sestuous. It's so gross. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [22:33] It's a problem. One of my favorite things to do when I'm on a plane, if I'm sitting behind, like, some old guy because also too, I'm I'm always fascinated when you get on a plane if they have a TV behind you. Like, a third of the plane just watches Fox News, like, for entertainment. Really? Yeah, dude. I'm like I'm like, what are you doing?

Dan Austin: [22:48] Well, you fly first class a lot, that shows a lot.

Mike DeHaan: [22:50] Well, so that's why they watch Fox News.

Dylan Koch: [22:51] You know?

Mike DeHaan: [22:52] That's why they're flying first class. Got that money. Yeah. But, like and I'll sit there and I'll watch, like, the old people in front of me. And, like, literally, the little headlines at the bottom will be, like, trans teacher accused of abusing children. You know? It'll be on the screen for, like, five seconds, and, like, next thing will be, like Audi, they're programming, bro. Somalian pirate invades Southern Utah preschool. Like, whatever. It just, like, every buzzword you can possibly think of, it just, like, churns through. And the guy's just, like, yelling at the screen the whole time, and you have these baby boomers that are just sitting there just riveted. Dead. You know? And those are the same people that are like, cannot believe that you let your children use the iPad. I'm like, fucking, you're worse than they are. Dude.

Dylan Koch: [23:32] Like Yeah. Shut up. The hypocrisy is

Mike DeHaan: [23:37] kinda funny.

Dan Austin: [23:38] Very funny.

Dylan Koch: [23:38] Can I ask a question related back to real estate? Why is the last punch list items the hardest freaking thing to get done on a flip?

Mike DeHaan: [23:48] I'd say that's the worst part of of just like life in general is the last 5% of everything. Yeah. It's funny. I feel like if you're in any kind of project based business, that is always how it is. Yeah. And I think the problem is because, like, you can see that it's right there, and there's always, like, one more thing. Yeah. And once you're there, you're kind of done with the project mentally. Your contractor's kind of done with the project mentally. They're already moved on to the next thing. Yep. And it's just like always something new. Yep.

Dylan Koch: [24:15] And it's like the light switch or like an outlet cover or like it's just like this small, thought it was gonna be done with this flipper doing like a week ago. And then now it's like these small miscellaneous things. I'm like, I don't want to take it to market until it's done done, because I don't want it to go like sour after the first like two weeks if it's still there. It's just annoying.

Mike DeHaan: [24:34] I mean, that's the kind of like dumb shit that Dan and I used to go out and do it our own. Just because like, we needed it to be done and our contract was like, well, no, I'm sorry. I'm doing something else now. And I know you need to fucking finish your job, dude.

Dan Austin: [24:44] Yeah. Contractors suck, man. I don't even know.

Dylan Koch: [24:47] I mean, it's kind of the same thing, though. It's like, I'm they're like, oh, job's done. And, you know, you shouldn't pay them until it's done done. But, like, it's just annoying.

Mike DeHaan: [24:55] Well, it's not even always flips either. It's you're turning a rental. That's even worse. Yeah. Because then, like, your tenant moves in and they're like, hey, all this shit's broken. You're like, what?

Dylan Koch: [25:02] Yeah. I had no idea. I had no idea. I told him to

Mike DeHaan: [25:05] do it. He told me it was done. You know? And he sent me pictures of the stuff stuff that was done. Mhmm. He didn't tell me about the other stuff that was broken that he just walked past.

Dylan Koch: [25:13] Yeah. It's actually got to a point where I tell my assistant tells new tenants, he's

Mike DeHaan: [25:17] like, hey.

Dylan Koch: [25:17] This place just got renovated. Been like this for thirty to sixty days, you might have some stuff that come up, just like notify us and we'll take care of it. Just so like telling them that so they're not pissed off at the beginning of their lease.

Mike DeHaan: [25:28] Or what you do is you just get a property management company, you don't have to worry about any of that shit. It's great.

Dan Austin: [25:32] Yeah. And then they take half your profits.

Dylan Koch: [25:34] Yeah. Well, I don't pay them $400 a month. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [25:37] Exactly. But your your opportunity cost is so much higher than that though, Dylan. Mhmm.

Dylan Koch: [25:40] Yeah. But, yeah, we've talked about this. I it's not I have my own in house property management, but my assistant runs 90% of it. So like, it's not really me doing it.

Mike DeHaan: [25:47] Your own in house property management? Is his name Dylan? No.

Dylan Koch: [25:50] It's not. It's a I won't put her name out here, but it's not me.

Dan Austin: [25:55] I mean, the real ticket is if you actually have good people that a person can call, having like a $9 an hour VA can literally run thirty, forty, 50 properties for you. The trick is like, Mike and I have ran into this issue in Spokane, is like, there's just not that many good people to call. And that's why you hire a property manager, because they a lot of times have an in house, or they have they have enough work that those people answer the phone for them and charge them a reasonable price. Where if you're just trying to do like us, like you kind of have to know some nuances and like talk to the right people. But like if you're just going to turn over to a VA, but I have a friend that runs his property management with a VA and works perfect for him. But he has people to call at a reasonable cost.

Dylan Koch: [26:33] I just found not too long ago a contractor. Who knows how long this will last? Because they never last.

Dan Austin: [26:39] Till he goes to prison.

Dylan Koch: [26:40] That actually, when they put in a maintenance request, he'll respond within, like, twenty four hours and actually just go take care of it.

Dan Austin: [26:46] Oh, nice. And he actually accepts it through, like, a software too?

Dylan Koch: [26:50] Yeah. Like, does it through, like, the actual platform that it's in? I'm like, you are a unicorn.

Dan Austin: [26:54] Yeah, dude.

Mike DeHaan: [26:54] Nah, dude. You gotta let it sit for at least a week because you should tend as well just fix it themselves.

Dan Austin: [26:59] Alright. Our rule of thumb is three three phone calls over three weeks, then we fix it.

Mike DeHaan: [27:03] Yeah. Exactly. I'm like, you can replace the light bulb. It's your light bulb. You moved in there.

Dylan Koch: [27:07] That I would not do. I'm like, this is in your list. Like, you were responsible

Mike DeHaan: [27:10] for this.

Dylan Koch: [27:11] Like, no. Sorry.

Mike DeHaan: [27:12] That's landlording. I do not miss when we used to run that side of business. It was such a pain in the ass. So there was like always something.

Dylan Koch: [27:18] Whenever you got a notification from a tenant, you're like, what? Like, this lowered your mood automatically. You know? It's never good news.

Mike DeHaan: [27:24] And why is it always like 09:30PM on a Saturday? I know. What are you doing? Yeah. You know? Or, like, one time I remember I was, like, in a comedy show trying to have a good time out with my wife or with some friends, and a tenant's, like, freaking calling me, calling me, calling me, calling me, And I'm just like ignoring her. And then I see on my watch, I get a notification, she goes, basement's flooded. Like, perfect. That's what I wanna do with her. You know?

Dan Austin: [27:45] No shit.

Dylan Koch: [27:46] Oh my god.

Mike DeHaan: [27:47] You know? And then I'm like, well, maybe you should stop putting tampons on the toilet. And that's actually what the problem was.

Dan Austin: [27:51] That's like before.

Dylan Koch: [27:52] Well, no. One of the tenants, legacy tenants still have my phone number, tried to call me at like one in the morning, but she was locked out of her apartment. Nice. Even if I would have answered, you're shit out of luck till the next morning. Sorry.

Mike DeHaan: [28:02] So Yeah. It's funny. Guess being locked out of their apartment. I don't know if I ever had to deal with that.

Dan Austin: [28:06] Oh, I have.

Dylan Koch: [28:06] They got a motel.

Dan Austin: [28:07] So I've had, because I have college tenants and I had, I have a lockbox on the outside that's for me or like contractors and maintenance and stuff. And so I had this, these tenants, they're over there for winter break. They leave for winter break and come back. So I had a couple that were there. And, I had to change the doorknob because the key got stuck in it. It was like a shitty doorknob. So I was like, here are eight new keys. Make sure everybody in your house has one. I put a new key in the lockbox, put them right there, talk to the two girls that were staying there. And then I get a phone call from one of them. These are people that live in the same house. Hey, my key doesn't work. Oh yeah. Did you see the text I sent to the group chat or talk to the two girls who I gave the keys to? And she's like, no. It was like raining outside 05:00 on a Sunday. I was like, I think I don't know where I was. I wasn't in Spokane. I was like, yeah, you can use the, the lockbox right next to the door. But I was

Mike DeHaan: [28:57] like, but put the key

Dan Austin: [28:58] back into it immediately. Immediately.

Dylan Koch: [29:00] Yep. That thing's gone forever.

Dan Austin: [29:02] So guess what I get? Another call. Hey. Sorry. I forgot to put the key in the lockbox, and I'm locked out again. Like, Like, you just didn't think

Mike DeHaan: [29:12] to grab one of the eight keys sitting right next to

Dan Austin: [29:14] the door on the on the coffee table?

Dylan Koch: [29:16] Put it on a keychain. Do something.

Dan Austin: [29:18] Like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I can't help you. Like, what?

Mike DeHaan: [29:20] She's on her phone. She's on her phone. The entire time she's on her phone. Like, that's like

Dan Austin: [29:24] I was like, how crazy. So that that key thing went on for three weeks with multiple people. I'm like, the freaking keys are there. Yeah. And then I send a guy over there to replace the oven. He's like, there's no keys in the lockbox. I was like, oh my god, how are these people graduating college?

Dylan Koch: [29:39] I'm just gonna say this and then I'll flash over to Sam. It's like, so we're we're selling a condo that we flipped or whatever. And she's like, hey, I was very proactive. Was like, here's all my entity information. Here's the HOA contact, name, phone number, all spelled out. Great. Can I have the HOA contacts, please? I'm just like, What? Can you not freaking read? Yeah. Like and so the general population lately is just really pissed me off because I think they're all of them.

Mike DeHaan: [30:03] It's like that with everything, man. Like, literally, today, we had someone reach out panicked because they couldn't get onto our to request a draw on their hard money loan. Oh, yeah. And I responded back, and I was like, I've spoken to this person three times. And I'm like, yeah. So if you remember, we no longer use that portal, and all of our draws are done through SiteWire. And I I said, I just resent you an invite because I saw that you never accepted the previous one. K. And she responded back, and she she was like, I don't recall any of that because things have been so crazy, but I believe you that you did that. She's like, just customer feedback. You should have, like, a more of a process for how you onboard people. I'm like, I did the process.

Dan Austin: [30:39] You got an email invite.

Mike DeHaan: [30:41] Told you. Yeah. You did everything. You just didn't answer it. I'm like, you're you're busy. I got 45 loans we closed this month. You think that yours is that important to me? No.

Dan Austin: [30:52] No. In fact, I'll never close one now. You're off my list. You're blocked.

Mike DeHaan: [30:55] Exactly.

Dan Austin: [30:55] Yeah. Sounds about right.

Dylan Koch: [30:57] But, hey, that's what makes a market. There are people of different intelligence levels. Yeah. And Right. The different outcomes are what's fair.

Dan Austin: [31:05] This is true.

Mike DeHaan: [31:05] And to be fair, there are probably people that say the same have the same grievances about us somewhere.

Dylan Koch: [31:10] Yeah. Totally.

Dan Austin: [31:11] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I'll accept those grievances.

Mike DeHaan: [31:13] I would actually like to hear what that is. I wonder what the most inconvenience I've caused somebody that I would unknowingly cause them that was like they were, like, really fresh with me like that.

Dan Austin: [31:21] Making them bring your bank statements to to see if they have cash

Mike DeHaan: [31:24] to close. Yeah. Well, you get that a lot. But that's true. I guess it goes both ways.

Dan Austin: [31:29] Why do you need my bank statements? Like, I don't know. Do you have any money?

Mike DeHaan: [31:32] I know. Dude, we we had this guy Submit

Dan Austin: [31:35] a bank statement for $500 in it.

Mike DeHaan: [31:37] No, dude. His first bank statement was negative 1,200, and then the next one was 300.

Dan Austin: [31:42] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [31:42] And he started throwing a fit when we weren't gonna close his loan.

Dylan Koch: [31:45] I would just lie. Like, where's the money? I can't lie, but, like, not submit it. Goddamn.

Mike DeHaan: [31:51] Well, he did lie. He lied to our loan officer when he brought the loan in and told them that he had, like, 20 flips in the last three years and $50 in the bank, which a, if you've done 20 flips, you only have $50. You gotta figure your life out.

Dylan Koch: [32:03] Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [32:03] But then everything was false. I'm like, stop lying. We're gonna catch it.

Dylan Koch: [32:07] Yeah. Exactly. Did you really think that this is not gonna come to light? I don't know.

Dan Austin: [32:12] I guess

Mike DeHaan: [32:12] not. Whatever. That's what people do. People suck. But the unfortunate thing is that people are also how you make money. You know? Until we all start using AI coin or whatever, we're like, we get paid from the AI robots. We gotta keep relying on people.

Dylan Koch: [32:25] Wasn't there something recently on Twitter that there was a rent a human from the AIs or whatever?

Mike DeHaan: [32:30] Well, mean, there's been rent a human in Asia forever.

Dan Austin: [32:32] You could do a lot of renting of humans.

Mike DeHaan: [32:34] You can. But, like, actually, like, you go to, like, human, you can, like, rent an old man to, like, hang out with you and teach you wisdom. I see, like, Instagram reels about

Dan Austin: [32:42] this all the time. Really?

Mike DeHaan: [32:43] Yeah. It's like it's a program that Japan actually does to help older people, like, stay engaged in society so they can sign up for it. And basically, you can be like, yeah. This guy this guy's gonna come get sushi with me. And this old Japanese dude shows up, and you, like, hang out with him. And he tells you the stories about the war. And because they're Japanese, they're all, like, fit. So they're, like, walking everywhere with you.

Dan Austin: [33:02] Like, they're not it's

Mike DeHaan: [33:03] not like you're babysitting like you do in The United States. I know.

Dan Austin: [33:05] Right? That's cool. I'd rent an old Japanese guy. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [33:08] I didn't

Dylan Koch: [33:08] know that. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [33:09] Yeah. We should bring that to Spokane, like, rent a crackhead.

Dan Austin: [33:12] Well, you didn't have to rent it, dude. They're just there.

Mike DeHaan: [33:14] That's true.

Dylan Koch: [33:14] Oh, every time I see like the fentanyl leans on my I think of you guys because we don't really have that here.

Mike DeHaan: [33:20] Fentanyl fold, baby? You do have it. You just not where you hang out.

Dylan Koch: [33:23] Dude, I no. I'm in the bad parts of town a lot. I was in the very bad part of town today, like, looking at a property. So So I think I would have seen it

Mike DeHaan: [33:29] by now.

Dan Austin: [33:29] Dude, fentanyl, I'm pretty sure that movie about like OxyContin addiction was in Ohio. I'm pretty sure like.

Dylan Koch: [33:36] Well, the '75, the Interstate 75 was a big like transport for it all way from Florida up to here. So yeah.

Dan Austin: [33:42] Mhmm. I feel like Cincinnati is like the Gary, Indiana of Ohio. You guys are ghetto over there.

Mike DeHaan: [33:48] No way. That's Dayton. That's Dayton.

Dylan Koch: [33:50] Springfield. Springfield.

Mike DeHaan: [33:52] Yeah. When we used do deals out there, that was just some of the worst place I've ever seen. Yeah. There would be houses where, like, the seller would be begging us to buy all of them. He's like, no. I'm only selling you this one if you buy all of my houses, and there's six houses, and the purchase price is $50. Yep. Jesus Christ. They're worth nothing.

Dylan Koch: [34:08] And you're still gonna lose money.

Mike DeHaan: [34:10] Yeah. Because even if you fix it up, it's only worth, you know, dollars 35,000. It needs everything. The thing's down

Dan Austin: [34:14] to the studs. Wow.

Mike DeHaan: [34:15] Exactly. You know, the roof in that market still costs the same as the roof in your market.

Dylan Koch: [34:19] This is actually my counterpoint to I think your buddy John Brooks posted something about there's not an inventory shortage in The United because there's always a vacant or abandoned houses. My point is, is those houses aren't useful, even like the base will take them off the map entirely, because no one can afford to rehab them and then make them livable houses.

Dan Austin: [34:38] Yeah. And that's where the the city has to come back and buy them and tear them down kind of thing.

Mike DeHaan: [34:42] That had been like a charity. Exactly. Yeah. Like, that's what they did in some of those places in Detroit in 2008. Mhmm. I remember there was people that were buying like entire neighborhoods for like a dollar. Yeah. You know? And then the condition was that you had to return all the houses to being livable again and then sell them.

Dylan Koch: [34:57] Yep. And then you still are getting grants for, like, we're guaranteeing, like, a small profit for the

Mike DeHaan: [35:01] sale, like,

Dan Austin: [35:01] even if

Dylan Koch: [35:02] you just do the work. So Anyways.

Mike DeHaan: [35:04] Well, end of February, end of March. Cool. Hopefully, everybody's had a good first couple months of the year. What are you guys working on these days? You should shoot me a message at Instagram, Mike underscore Invest. Let me know what's getting you excited in business, in the world. What should we rebrand the show to? If you have any ideas, shoot me a message. Would appreciate it. And, yeah, thanks for listening, buddy. Talk to you guys next week. Bye.

Dylan Koch: [35:25] See you.

Mike DeHaan: [35:26] This episode is sponsored by Sir Lenzelot LLC, also known as SLA Capital, which if you didn't know, is Dan and I's private lending company. So, yes, we are sponsoring our own show, but what you're do about it? It is our private lending company that offers hard money and DSCR loans to real estate investors of all types. So you can be a new investor, an experienced investor. You can be buying flips. You can be buying rentals, whatever. We can do everything. And not only that, but the rates that we offer are just as competitive, if not cheaper, than pretty much every other company out there. So whatever big company you've been working with, bring us their term sheets, and I guarantee that we can probably beat it. We have the same connections they do. We just don't have all the overhead and middlemen. So if you wanna come and check us out, go to slacapital.com/keys, and I will know that you came from the show. And by seeing that you came from here, when you get to closing, you will save $500 on your first loan with us. So slacapital.com/keys, we would love to fund your next deal. Thanks for listening, everyone. If you want more from us, you can shoot us a follow on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore Invest. Dan is at investor man. Dan and Dylan is at Dylan underscore does underscore deals. Choose to follow and send us a DM to let us know what you think of the show.