Leaving A 6-Figure Job To Build a 7-Figure Real Estate Business, with Dylan Koch

Mike DeHaan: [0:00] What's going on, Collecting Keys crew? So we have a little repost for you today because I just got back from a month long trip around Southeast Asia, which was awesome, but I wasn't able to get enough prerecordings done before I left. And so we are doing a repost of our most popular episode from 2024 today. And coincidentally, it's actually great because this is an episode with Dylan that just happens to be our

Mike DeHaan: [0:25] most popular one for the year. And when we brought him on

Mike DeHaan: [0:27] as our third host, and it's from this past April. And it's a really great deep dive into all the things that he has done to build his success that allowed him to leave his high paying pharmaceutical job. So enjoy this episode with Dylan. And then also to a little ask for you guys, we are always looking for new guests. As you know, about twelve or so weeks ago, we kinda transitioned the people that we're bringing on the show to have them be more, like, relatable operators. Here's the thing that we found is it's shockingly hard to find, like, good operators that actually have value add and, you know, are active in the business, actually building out and trying to grow it. Most people that we get that apply for the show, they either are, like, trying to shill something, some kind of service, their own coaching, whatever, or they are people that basically had success, like, before 2021 jump. Right? And they haven't really done anything since. And their now full time job is, like, I am a podcast person, and I manage my property managers, which really isn't that interesting. And so if you have any recommendations on people who wanna be on the show, or if you're a good operator and wanna be on the show yourself, then hit me up on Instagram at Mike underscore Invest. I would love to connect with more potential guests because, honestly, it's just hard to find people. And so going over the next little bit, we might kinda move away from interviews a little bit just because I don't want more professional podcasters or people shilling whatever. People just don't have a lot to say because, let's be honest, no one wants to listen to that. Our download numbers show that no one wants to listen to that, and so I'm trying to keep stuff as high quality as as we can.

Mike DeHaan: [1:55] Otherwise, I might as well just reduce the amount of work that we're doing than just getting on kinda shitty guests. So hit me up on Mike underscore Invest if you have a good prospect for us that would be a good guest. Otherwise, enjoy the show with Dylan. It's a great one. I remember doing this one a little while back, and there's a ton of great knowledge in here for you.

Dylan Koch: [2:10] At the beginning, it was way too much transactional focus. Like, hey, your house seems 50 great work. That's why the offer's this. Right? And I did it, I think those initial months I talked about from October to March, I didn't do deals, not because I didn't have leads, but probably because I was shit at converting.

Dan Austin: [2:30] What's going on everyone? Today, Mike and I are joined with our good friend and scale community member, Dylan Cook. He is what I would call a solopreneur that's out there crushing it right now, And I say solopreneur because really it's just him kinda running everything. He has some VAs and others working for him, and despite him trying to hire acquisition managers here recently, because he is trying to scale, he's also a great example of how you can have a 7 figure business and it'd just be you running it. His story's amazing, how he went from hating his job as a pharmacy, as a pharmacist, and just diving in head first, quitting that job and becoming a wholesaler, flipper, property owner. I think he has 41 units now. Last year in his first full year of this, he hit 600,000 in top line revenue, and I know this year for a fact, he's gonna be over 7 figures, and he's just absolutely doing a very fantastic job at all levels of his business. He's not extraordinary, he just really is committing, he's putting in the hard work, and he is showing everyone that you can really do a ton with just yourself. So I think, listen to this one at the end, he gives some fantastic tidbits for people just getting started on really what he calls feeling the fear, and just leaning into it and going forward, because it took him five, I think five or six months to get his first deal, and he made 5,500 after spending like $30 in marketing and other business expenses. It's a lot like Mike and I's story, and you can see with us we've scaled beyond that, and Dylan's a proof that you can scale beyond that too.

Dan Austin: [3:58] So I hope you enjoy this episode.

Mike DeHaan: [4:01] Alright, guys. We are here today with Dylan Cook, who is a long time scale member now, and a really, really impressive investor who has built out one of the more solid businesses that we have seen, especially for a one man operator. And dude, I'm super excited to have you on the show today because when I look at just like, I would say smaller time businesses and individuals that are relatively new to the game, that have sort of taken things by storm, you're one of the first people that comes to mind. So thanks for coming on today.

Dylan Koch: [4:30] Yeah, guys. Thanks for having me. And obviously you guys have contributed to much of that success. I'm happy to dive in today.

Dan Austin: [4:36] Yeah,

Mike DeHaan: [4:36] I appreciate that. I mean you are obviously actively engaged in scale, which helps a lot, but you know I definitely don't wanna undermine like your own effort that you put in. If you've had several other members that have been in for just as long as you and longer and haven't accomplished nearly as much, so But perhaps you're doing something for people who have never heard about you before, give us a little bit of a rundown. I guess first off, let's say this. What exactly does your business look like right now? And then we can backtrack into how you got there.

Dylan Koch: [5:04] Yeah. So I guess since we're only three months in, 2023 numbers, which was my first full time year doing this, we did around 30 deals, which was just under like 600,000 in revenue. Those are the transactional side, so basically wholesales and flips. In the duration since I've been doing this, not just in 2023, but we've added 41 rental units. And then so far in 2024, we're two months in, we've done eight deals, four and four. March will actually be surprisingly a little bit slower, but we have some more in the pipeline. I think that's a good synopsis for now. Heck yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [5:36] Nice. So I guess your first full year, about 600 ks, and you've accumulated 40 something rental units, And then overall you've been doing this for what, three years overall?

Dylan Koch: [5:46] Well my first rental was in 2018, but I left my w two back in 2021, October Yeah. 2020

Mike DeHaan: [5:53] Nice, That's awesome.

Dan Austin: [5:54] Yeah. I know those like 41 doors, because I know you actually, you've been doing some like trading up. What does that look like? What does your portfolio look like?

Dylan Koch: [6:02] Yeah. So it's a 13 unit mixed use building, got 12 units seller finance, it's like a four unit, a four unit, two duplexes in that. We have three other duplexes that was a seller finance sale, they're all adjacent to each other that we bought, but then another four unit. And I think if you add all those up, it's 41.

Dan Austin: [6:19] Yeah, that's awesome. A lot of that's seller financing and creative structures from the seller, right?

Dylan Koch: [6:24] And one of them was a $10.31 that we that was for the 13 units. So that was a single family that we was actually an Airbnb. Didn't go obviously as what we thought it would, so we had a bunch of equity in there and transition that in.

Mike DeHaan: [6:36] You just did it wrong, dude. Airbnb's are easy. They're the best the way that you quite sure put your cash flow.

Dylan Koch: [6:42] I mean, luckily, if we made it a traditional rental, it still would have worked. You know, just return on equity was low. So it was time to move up nice.

Dan Austin: [6:49] Question on that before we dive too much into the rest of your business, because I'm just curious because I haven't got the chance to talk to you about this. With the mixed use building, anything worth noting there? Like, it's interesting to me that you were able to pick up mixed use building and then how you underwrote it and all that sort of stuff. Like, did you look at it as like a commercial first or a residential? Because I'm guessing it's rentals above, like residential rentals above like a main retail.

Dylan Koch: [7:12] Good question, Dan. I basically mailed this guy about a different piece of property, a four unit that he owned. He's like, don't wanna sell this, but I have this thing that I've owned for forty years that I don't have any depreciation left. So he was like, I'd be willing to sell this. And it was built like the nineteen twenty something, I'm the third owner. Wow. But essentially, it's four retail units on the bottom. It's like an insurance agent, a salon, a barber shop, and like this gaming room facility thing, and then nine apartments on top. And the apartments like we feel comfortable underwriting, but these were already kind of leased out. And so I just underwrote it, how it currently sat and if it made sense. And then there's enough room even with the apartments alone to increase rents and make it make sense that I wouldn't even need the $4.

Mike DeHaan: [7:54] Nice.

Dylan Koch: [7:55] Right. So it was kind of a safer play at that point. But yeah, was still evaluating on a cap rate perspective if that's what you're getting at. And there's a guy local in my market who owns a ton of commercial. And I was able to lean on him and be like, what should I look for as far as leases, environmental studies, some of the stuff that you don't really see in a typical residential transaction.

Mike DeHaan: [8:13] Nice. Awesome. And a lot of this you've done over the past while. I mean, you've been, as far as I can tell, the only operator in your business. I know you've had a couple VAs off and on. I know at one point you hired a acquisition manager that was supposed to come to the sales training that we have and he no showed and that was his last day at work, first and last day. Correct. So you're just completely riding the entire ship by yourself.

Dylan Koch: [8:35] Yeah. Right now it looks, it's me, a full time VA, a bookkeeper, part time bookkeeper, and I do have a guy that's commission based that calls some foreclosure leads for me. Sure. Then I'm running everything else.

Mike DeHaan: [8:47] You're running everything else? That's awesome. I think that's a huge limiting belief that tends to hold people back as they think that they need to have all these teams and different things in order to build out.

Dan Austin: [8:56] When I think too the scale, because you're pretty good at I think, you're an analytical person, but also you're pretty good at talking to people doing this. So like, it seems to me you can bounce back and forth between roles as needed. But to speak to what you I mean, numbers last year, you said you did 600,000, so that's basically a solo solo operator, 600,000 in revenue. Like, you don't have to have a team to get to probably 7 figures. I'm guessing if you added all your equity and stuff last year, you're probably close to 7 figures.

Dylan Koch: [9:22] If you add in equity, yes, for sure.

Mike DeHaan: [9:24] Yeah. Well I mean, to be fair, you do have a huge advantage because you came from a background where you were selling annuities and you were used car salesmen, so you were No kidding. No, was a drug healer, right? Yeah, know, no, he didn't come from that at all. So that's my segue into what does your past look like and how did you get into this business?

Dylan Koch: [9:42] Yeah, so long story short is I went to pharmacy school down here in Cincinnati. So I went to six years of schooling and I graduated pharmacy school in 2017. I was 24 years old, making low 6 figures, one thousandth top of the world, right? But I also always had an interest in, I guess finance is a better room, whether it be stocks or personal finance. My parents are always kinda good with that stuff.

Mike DeHaan: [10:07] Crypto.

Dylan Koch: [10:08] Or you can get in that if you want.

Mike DeHaan: [10:09] I don't.

Dylan Koch: [10:10] No. Anyway, they threw me off, Dan. I always had a, like, back of my mind thing for investing. Right? And so I started with the bigger pockets rabbit hole. I basically went from a Dave Ramsey to Robert Kiyosaki switched during that timeframe. And so I bought my first house back in June 2018. The living unit, one unit ran out the other. It was And honestly probably bought it way too high, but anything you bought in 2017 made sense nowadays, right?

Mike DeHaan: [10:35] Yeah, for sure, yeah.

Dylan Koch: [10:36] I lucked out, and then basically was continuing my career, you know I kept moving up, I managed a local store down here, but pharmacy in my opinion, especially retail facing kept getting worse and worse as far as cutting hours, increased scripts, and then COVID happened, it was just a mess. I hate going to work every day. Then we were at a point in my life where I was married to my wife, who's also a pharmacist, so she may see some money. We've lived well below our means, and we've lived with intention for a long time, so we had some money set aside. So I was basically like, F it. It's now or never to try to do this wholesaling or reinvesting full time, and that's why it was October 2021. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [11:16] And I appreciate that, Dylan, that you kinda went through that same path, because something that I hear regularly with my backstory, you know, I left my career as an engineer, and everyone's always like, oh, well how'd you like, were you able to do that, and you know, how was that risk justified and all these things. But I was doing the exact same thing as you. You know, we had like a decent income, we lived frugally for a while beforehand, and then ultimately when you kind of, I don't know, you know that you're not gonna be a fuck up, right? And you're like

Dylan Koch: [11:42] Right.

Mike DeHaan: [11:42] You know that you're gonna be able to figure your own shit out because you've learned how to get a decent career, you've learned how to hold down a good job, you've learned how to save money, you understand finance. It's really not that hard honestly to get enough of a nest egg to be able to make the leap, but most people just aren't patient enough.

Dan Austin: [12:00] One thing I like about what Dylan said was like lived intentionally. Mean, that's really what you're talking about, right? Living intentionally with a plan and a strategy, and then understanding like what now what you're saying Mike is like, hey, I've been able to do all of this, what's keeping you from doing the same going forward, just in a different context?

Dylan Koch: [12:15] Right. And like, the other part of that story is, the career that we were on, like you started out high at a young age, don't get me wrong, but you're pretty much plateaued. Like, you don't have an exponential way to make money. You can type in those compound interest calculators all day, maxing out 401Ks, IRAs, HSAs.

Dan Austin: [12:30] You know exactly where you'd

Dylan Koch: [12:31] Yeah, you'll be a millionaire by what, 65? Yeah, 67?

Dan Austin: [12:35] Well I mean I thought there was things like you could open the back door and throw pills out to your friends, and they'll sell them for you.

Dylan Koch: [12:41] Or jail, you know that could Or be jail. Okay.

Mike DeHaan: [12:46] Yeah. Did the discussion go with your wife when you decided to make the leap?

Dylan Koch: [12:50] Definitely, it was a work in progress, right? I exhibited some kinds of success from the house act, we bought some traditional rentals, the 25% down stuff. So we had some, like thing I could look at, like, like, this is working, right? I actually kind of know what I'm doing. And eventually, was just like, she's coming out local to being a pharmacist. So I was like able to break it down, here's what we spend every month, here's our savings, and we had $30,000 or so, 40,000 in savings, I was like, let me just try this, and if it doesn't work, can go back to being a pharmacist. So I really was like a no lose situation at that point.

Mike DeHaan: [13:25] For sure. Is your

Dan Austin: [13:26] wife more conservative than you? Like as far as like just finances and stuff like that, yeah?

Dylan Koch: [13:30] Yeah, 100. But she trusts me too on the other side of that, right? That's good

Dan Austin: [13:34] stuff, yeah, that's really good.

Mike DeHaan: [13:35] So is she still a pharmacist?

Dylan Koch: [13:38] She is, and there are plans where once we do start having a family and whatnot, at least being in the position to make that optional. Not saying that that will happen, because maybe she'll wanna keep working, I don't know. But as of right now she's still a pharmacist, I'm on her benefits, full disclosure, that obviously helps. Heck yeah. Even with our current portfolio, we probably don't need to be, we could do that slim fire stuff if we wanted to, But we just have bigger ambitions so this makes more sense, keep going. Well I think

Dan Austin: [14:08] it goes back to you said living intentionally, She has a choice, is what I hear you saying. If she wants to, she can. If she doesn't wanna go back to work, she doesn't have to. Right.

Mike DeHaan: [14:16] Yeah. I mean and I'm assuming that she's still there, she probably doesn't hate it.

Dylan Koch: [14:19] No, I mean I would not classify it as hate. Not as much as I do for sure.

Mike DeHaan: [14:22] Yeah. I guess I ask that because this is always a big thing that comes up. So my wife left her job a couple years ago now, it's eighteen months ago, quite a couple years ago. And when she did that, you know a lot of people were, I don't know, like congratulating as like this big thing and whatever. But it's like the point is it's all about that freedom, and that opportunity. And I've known a lot of men that have like had these goals that like they wanna be able to retire their wife and want certain things. And I actually got into a big debate with a bunch of gobliners guys about this. And I said, did you, do your wives actually want to leave their jobs? Right. Yeah. Like I understand that you think that would be cool if they would and that would sort of justify yourself I guess, but like maybe they don't want to. You know, and that's sort of an important thing to keep in mind. That's a valid comment.

Dylan Koch: [15:08] Yeah, no, think to your point, it would have to be at least at least the minimum of something part time. Right? Just like being home forty hours a week I don't think would, I don't know. I don't think there's a way that you could do that.

Mike DeHaan: [15:17] Well they exactly, they have to create themselves somewhere like, I mean I guess if you have kids, it's a little bit different, but

Dan Austin: [15:22] if it meant to be like a You get a little baby at home and like she's pretty happy, that's why had my wife, she just really, after a second kid she really, we both kinda stayed home for like four months, but she really kinda got into that groove and like going back to work became less and less interesting to her.

Mike DeHaan: [15:37] And

Dan Austin: [15:38] so, know, throw a little baby in there, she

Mike DeHaan: [15:40] wants Yeah. To

Dylan Koch: [15:41] Well, like, I guess, along the same lines, we haven't, even though we've made decent money, like obviously I just said, we haven't taken any of that as personal income. Don't know if you remember at KeysCon, which guys need me to, but that has all been reinvested in pretty much everything. So we basically live off my wife's income, and like everything else has just been poured back into the business, end of the portfolio. Right.

Mike DeHaan: [16:01] And at Keys Cons, everybody knows Dylan came to our first in person for the scale community this past November, and I made him take a $50,000 draw from his business account.

Dan Austin: [16:09] Remember, we're all sitting there in the kitchen, and you told us how much you have in your bank account, your business account. Mike's like, wait, what? Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [16:15] Well, then it's just the contrast is for like, business was up here, personal was And way down so Right. No. Yep. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [16:22] So what did that transition look like? Let's dive into that. So you decided you're gonna go full time into real estate. What exactly did that mean? You know, like how did you sort of make that transition? How did you adjust your day to day? What were kind of your first steps?

Dylan Koch: [16:34] Yeah, with the thesis being like, I wanted more rentals. At the beginning it was all about the passive income, know, get to this a certain dollar amount. Anything on the MLS didn't make sense, I couldn't make pencil. And so I just started trying to figure out the direct to seller route, I had heard it on BiggerPockets and all these podcasts and stuff. And at some point we were both another mastermind, which was Ryan Dossi's mastermind. And that was the first thing I did. I joined that, and that was like this, every day I was getting into devouring content, guess, which was YouTube videos, the Kajabi courses, and then sending out the mail too. Was actually doing it. I set up all the systems. But basically, all day, I mean eight hours, ten hours a day, was in the systems, going on appointments, cold calling people, and those three things were probably what I did most often. And obviously networking, finding buyers. I don't know if that really answers your question, because I didn't do a whole lot of different things. I just basically worked on generating as many leads as I could.

Mike DeHaan: [17:29] I mean that's how perfectly answers the question. You did the thing that would obviously lead you to the next investment opportunity, which is talking to people and identifying opportunities, guess, right?

Dan Austin: [17:42] Did you actually start your wholesale business before you quit pharmacy, or was that like, hey, quit pharmacy to do

Dylan Koch: [17:47] it? Quit pharmacy to do it with the caveat that I had sent out some direct mail in the past.

Dan Austin: [17:53] So you kinda dabbled, okay, I was just Yeah. Because the amount of work it takes

Dylan Koch: [17:56] to do Yeah,

Dan Austin: [17:57] those are

Dylan Koch: [17:57] all just like three to 400 piece mailers at a time that trying to find my next like duplex or four family or something.

Mike DeHaan: [18:04] Weren't

Dylan Koch: [18:04] with the intention of the wholesaling or folding.

Mike DeHaan: [18:07] Yeah. So when you were in that phase where you were just hunting those opportunities, I guess like, did you have like a daily process that you ran, or were you just kinda like throwing spaghetti against the wall trying to find your thing?

Dylan Koch: [18:20] Dude honestly, today, my systems aren't where they need to be. I would classify myself as like a good hustlepreneur. I kinda just do what's necessary, and of course it's burnt me a couple times with the first time I did this my financials were a mess, so when tax time came it was rough. But yeah, it was just I download the list list that skip trace and start cold calling.

Mike DeHaan: [18:44] Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [18:44] That would generate a bunch of leads, follow-up with the leads, present offers. And if I wasn't doing that, I'd try to find buyers and reverse wholesale some of these too. So like, right, like, what were these people looking for? And just trying to play the matchmaker.

Mike DeHaan: [18:57] Yeah. And so I guess doing that, how long did it take for you to get your first deal signed around?

Dylan Koch: [19:02] So like I said, quit October, but I didn't get my first deal till March, and I had spent probably around $30 at that point. All in marketing, but just in general. And it was like a or $5,500 wholesale fee, so I was still very much in the red. So

Dan Austin: [19:16] it tracks, that tracks.

Dylan Koch: [19:17] Yeah, But bet at the beginning at that point it was more operating out of fear almost. If I got approved on myself, I'm gonna do this, just going back to pharmacy would have been admittance of failure, guess. And so it was more like I need to prove to myself that I can do this. And so I just kept hustling and grinding until I think that first, I actually have my spreadsheet up, think in 2022, even after only doing a deal on March, ended with 374,000 on top.

Mike DeHaan: [19:45] Nice. That's awesome.

Dan Austin: [19:46] So that, I mean, what is going on in your head, you said operating out of fear, between October and March, and then March getting only 5,500, because that doesn't mean all of a sudden you're doing well. Like what was going on? Like how were you even surviving? Because I know a lot of people would probably quit by December.

Dylan Koch: [20:03] Well, one, I probably had a misalignment of expectations of how quick it was gonna. I just thought it was gonna be God's gift to earth and send out one batch of mail and then get four or five tools. Yeah, it's so much harder than people tell you at the beginning. But as you, I never stopped marketing though, so it just kind of just snowballed on itself, and more and more leads came in. Don't be wrong, there's times I'm like, fuck, I might not make this. And so as the leads kept coming in, and just finding the buyers and squeezing someone out, you get your fives, 6, sevens, 2,000 wholesale fees, but then you could maybe get a $30,000 one. Now you're looking pretty good, right?

Mike DeHaan: [20:37] Yeah. So It is interesting though, like how recurring those sort of like number patterns are, right? Where that like four to six month and 20 to $30,000 in like actual spend to get the first one. Mean that was pretty much same as what we were. We've seen that with other community members that come through and have the same pattern. And honestly I think that's just almost like the mental slash emotional check to sort of see who actually has what it takes to be successful. Most people quit because they get to like that third month, and they're $50,000 in, and they're just like, man,

Dylan Koch: [21:11] I don't think I can

Mike DeHaan: [21:11] hang with this anymore.

Dylan Koch: [21:12] Yep. And I'm not saying, if people's listening to this and are like, fuck, I have a W two, I can't commit to this. You can definitely still do it, But I was I think a lot of the success that I had at the beginning just comes from the fact that I was able to work on this eight to twelve hours a day for months straight. Underrated, for sure.

Mike DeHaan: [21:28] Hey. We really appreciate being a listener of the collecting keys podcast. Did you know that we also are on social media and on YouTube? You should go and shoot us a follow on those as well. You can find both Dan and I on Instagram. I am at Mike underscore invests. Dan is at investor man Dan. You can also find short clips from the show at collecting keys podcast on Instagram. And if you wanna see our faces talking while you're listening to this show or you wanna check out some of our crazy animated adventures we've been putting together into some funny little web cartoons that sort of show the crazy stories that guests tell on the show, then you should go over to YouTube and check out the collecting keys channel. Shoot us a subscribe over there. It really helps continue to grow our audience. We really, really appreciate it. Well, anyways, enjoy the rest of show you guys. We appreciate you all. Yeah. And you're also an agent too, right? So I guess how do you balance that out with the wholesale stuff?

Dylan Koch: [22:18] Well, have my agent's license. I wanted class. I get all help buyers find homes. You know, I just kind of have it. So we probably get you can't do that anymore. So Right. Yeah, actually, before we got on this call, was listening to that. My broker had a meeting about it. But anyway, I mean, it's disclosed on like all my contracts and stuff saying that we're not acting in a fiduciary duty. But the way I did it was one, have access to data on the MLS too. I could sell my own flips and save 3%. Is that the best use of my time? I would argue yes, now, and it's a $500,000 house. And then three, if I do get these leads that come in and they are wanting to sell, but they want retail and their house is in retail condition, I could at least refer it out to someone and collect a referral fee off of that.

Mike DeHaan: [23:01] How do you balance having the wholesale conversation with sellers without it being like a conflict of interest on the realtor side?

Dylan Koch: [23:11] I mean, pretty much everything from the beginning is just like, hey, I'm also an agent, and I can give you really I always approach it from investor first. If you wanted the quick, easy transaction, this is what we can offer you, these are the timelines, these are the scenarios. But if they actually want more money and it's actually a fit, there's no other underlying motivation there. So it's like, hey, I know this guy over in my brokerage, he'd be a good fit for you, he could help you. And I really just had the pass off, I don't really have much conversations with those people outside of that point forward.

Dan Austin: [23:44] Yeah, gotcha. It's just an easier way to pivot, and I like how you say, I had an approach from an investor first because too often people immediately go to, well I'm an agent because this conversation's getting hard, let me try to list your property because some money's better than no money, when in reality, you're paying the marketing and the bill you're paying is to find off market deals. And if you try to pivot too quickly to just being an agent for all these sellers, you're not gonna make it in the business. Right.

Dylan Koch: [24:08] Right. And like in the contract, it has my license number, so, you know, all this kind of stuff. I had my lawyer look at it. So like, from a conflict of interest, think if you're just like truthful to these people and tell, like, this disclosure that you're an agent, and that you're looking to buy their house and not list their house, you don't really see any

Dan Austin: [24:23] Well, in reality, what I found over the years when it comes to the agent thing, I think what you're saying is absolutely the right thing to do, but when people call us, they don't really, the whole agent thing or not agent thing, they don't really understand that. As long as you're clear of like, I'm the one buying your house, but I happen to be an agent, like that disclosure piece to the seller isn't a big deal. As long as they're not calling you thinking you're an agent that's going to sell their house and you're an agent that's trying to buy their house. Yes. Correct.

Mike DeHaan: [24:48] Yeah. So is that one of the biggest questions we get like all the time is around agents that are interested in doing investing or wholesale real estate and there's always so many different opinions

Mike DeHaan: [24:58] over what you're allowed to do.

Dylan Koch: [24:59] Well, mean, at least in my market, wholesaling has a low barrier to entry. And so some of these people that come in, I mean, just like with anything, they're piece of shit human beings. And so sometimes they get a bad rep for a good reason. Right? And a lot of times those agents that have those negative experiences are the ones that have those opinions.

Mike DeHaan: [25:17] You know, really we should all be thankful for Pace two and the Sub two group, because they pull all the shitheads that way. Like wholesaling's cleaner now than it ever has been before. Like, honestly. They kinda do.

Dylan Koch: [25:27] You're

Dan Austin: [25:27] right. And that's probably, actually, you say that, Mike, that's a fascinating observation because as he's grown, his as his like magnetic forces pulled people in, the wholesaling side of the business, like the direct seller side has actually become like a lot more professional. Like, we've always talked about like how much more competitive it is, and how people, like the operator, the level of the operators are much higher than it used to be. Listen, a 100%. They're still there, they're just sucked over to Paces shithole.

Mike DeHaan: [25:50] Yeah. We we should make an episode about that, like an open thank you to him for taking all of the scumbags from the wholesale industry. That would actually be awesome.

Dylan Koch: [25:58] I'll sign a petition. Yeah. You sign a petition. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [26:01] And so a

Dylan Koch: [26:01] big a big thing that I'm

Mike DeHaan: [26:03] I always find impressive with you Dylan is the fact that you didn't come from any sort of sales background, but you learned that skill set. Which I think honestly is the hardest part of the off market real estate game for people to develop is like how do you actually get good at talking to sellers? You know like we talk to so many people that come from like engineering backgrounds, or like corporate y sort of background, like product manager backgrounds, where they're not customer facing at all. Yeah, okay. And that's like honestly why most of them suck. Mean even within scale, we have a lot of folks where you've done like sales review and things like that with them and I'm just like man, like this poor person. Like I don't even know like what to tell them to get better at it. So I guess, what's your perspective on that? Were you kinda just able to pick it up because you're personable, or did you have to go through and get your bumps and bruises?

Dylan Koch: [26:49] I definitely had to get my bumps and bruises. And so I will say being a retail pharmacist helped decided to dissolve situations all the time, just with customers who were

Mike DeHaan: [26:58] You had to upsell Vicodin and other Yeah,

Dylan Koch: [27:00] there's no upsell, it's just really calming people down, honestly, was the most part of it, because they get pissed off, their insurance won't cover it, or they can't get their pain pills early, all the kind of stuff that can go wrong. So I had some experience with that, but also at the beginning it was way too much transactional focused. Like hey, your house needs 50, great work, that's why the offer's this. I think those initial months I talked about from October to March, I didn't do deals, not because I didn't have leads, but probably because I was shit at converting. And so I did read some sales books, I think Pitch Anything was one. I read The Way the Wolf, I mean he's a shitty human being, but some of his stuff works for sales, and just repetition. And I think what I'm good at now, if I had to put a small differentiator out there, be just meeting people where they are. So you can tell if they're in the countryside and have MAGA flags and Trump hats and all this kind of stuff, or if they're a sophisticated guy who wants to sell a 12 unit apartment building, you'd able to have those different conversations with these people, I think goes a long way.

Mike DeHaan: [28:01] I like how you made those two, the comparisons, either the MAGA person or the sophisticated person.

Dan Austin: [28:06] The sophisticated guy that's

Mike DeHaan: [28:07] too I was waiting for to say like, or they're the person that has a pot shop and they're like a hippie, Yeah.

Dylan Koch: [28:12] You could take that, there's so many different classifications of people that you have to be able to meet with, so.

Mike DeHaan: [28:17] Yeah. I mean,

Dylan Koch: [28:17] you're in Ohio too,

Mike DeHaan: [28:18] That stuff matters out there. It's like one of the only states where it actually matters.

Dan Austin: [28:21] Yeah, dude. They're moderate. Swings what

Mike DeHaan: [28:23] Depends Swings

Dylan Koch: [28:24] on who

Dan Austin: [28:24] he wants this year.

Mike DeHaan: [28:25] Right. That's funny. So I know one of the other things too is you've with that hiring piece. I mean, we talked about at the beginning about how you've been mostly like a sole operatorship with like a VA. That's not without trying. So like what do you think? I mean, hiring acquisition managers and sales members, things like that, is one of the most discussed pieces of this business. Very good. You've struggled with this. Like why do you think that is? What are your sort of perspectives on like as a newer, I would say like business leader trying to conquer that?

Dylan Koch: [29:00] Good question. So I bet now it's been like three people who basically said yes. Then like a couple days before said like, sorry bro, I'm out.

Mike DeHaan: [29:07] I mean at what point do you look in a mirror and wonder what's wrong with you? Like why?

Dylan Koch: [29:10] I could be, man. I guess I gotta gotta do that. But I haven't posted the job in a while and I need to do that. I just got swamped with other sides of the business. But not making excuses. Basically I think the first two were basically like, I think they were agents who were struggling. And they basically saw this opportunity, and when they told their broker that they were gonna leave, their broker's like, you don't wanna do that, talked them into it. And one guy was younger, I think his parents had something to do with it too. I don't really have a good answer for you Mike, because I feel confident in my ability that the person that comes along is gonna be able to make great money and be treated fairly. Or maybe I am not resonating that correctly when I'm having these interviews with them or in the process.

Dan Austin: [29:55] Well, one thing that you said was that there are two agents that were failing, they wanted to cover your business, I don't know that you even want a failing agent in your business, because they're failing at this, why would they be successful at something over here? And so maybe it was just a bad batch. Bad batch of applicants and maybe you lean too much into hey, they know real estate, so maybe they'll be okay in my business.

Dylan Koch: [30:15] Yeah, that could very well be part of it. And some of it was like, I don't know many people who spend the amount of money we do to generate leads.

Dan Austin: [30:22] So it's almost like

Dylan Koch: [30:23] once the leads come in, would they be okay once the leads came in? Instead of like the lead generation part.

Mike DeHaan: [30:29] So if

Dylan Koch: [30:29] I can fix the lead generation part, can they do the lead converting part? But I haven't had a lot of success with this, and I know once I do bring someone on, unless they're a natural seller I feel like I'm still gonna do a lot of handholding through that timeframe, and I haven't been able to convince myself to do that one step back to take three steps forward thing quite yet. Which I know I need to to get to like the revenue that I wanna do, but here we are.

Mike DeHaan: [30:52] Yeah, that's hard. I honestly think that that's one of the hardest parts of entrepreneurship is that one step back for three steps Because the problem is it's not like you just do a step back for like a week and then it's three steps forward next week, right? You're really doing one step back for like a month or like two months. And then you're hoping that six months down the line things have moved forward.

Dan Austin: [31:10] What I was thinking about that was like, you step out of your sales role but you become a So sales it's not like you're getting any less time, learning more time to yourself. Now you're just a sales manager at that point.

Dylan Koch: [31:20] Yes, I guess that's true. But even now, because I'm a one man show, I have 50 tasks on Ari Simply that I need to go through, that are overdue, that are mostly lead follow-up, right? And so it's like Dylan, okay, go hire someone to do these instead of just bust through these because that's always gonna have been my mentality, is just run through the wall and get stuff done. That's how I was successful at the beginning, but it's the whole, like what, I forget the expression, but what got you here won't get you there kind of a thing.

Dan Austin: [31:48] Yeah, yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [31:49] And that's also very challenging as well. And you're in that funny revenue range where obviously you've done very well, you get the majority of the fruits for your labor. Every single person you bring on, you know, you kinda have to like give that up a little bit in the near term. And I think also too that there is nothing wrong with being a solo operator for a while. If that's meeting your financial goals and you can't, you're okay with that. So I guess I wanna know what are your goals over the next little bit? What are your ambitions over there in Cincinnati?

Dylan Koch: [32:19] Yeah, so I mean I am kinda happy with where we're at, like three or four deals a month where we're making. I wanna do, I still have the passive income of grained in my head, but I wanna grow a decent sized portfolio here in my market. Just 100 units, don't ask me why that is, but it also has a cash flow aspect to it too. And then it's making as much money as I can with wholesaling and flipping, and maybe pay some of those off, live at a 50% LTV on the portfolio and then decide like, okay, do I wanna do this for, or do you wanna go into another venture? Just having, again, optionality to do that. But I want my business to be at least 7 figures top line per year. I know I probably have to bring someone else on, and I guess transitioning a little bit. When my wife and I do start having kids, I know I won't be able to work as much as I'm working now. Because I work a ton So of time now, it's kinda getting those pieces in place now where when the time is right, it's not like you're not scrambling at the last second to try to put those pieces together.

Dan Austin: [33:16] Sure. Just for context for people to know, because I feel like you are a good person to aspire to for many of our listeners is, when you say you work a shit ton right now, how much are you working?

Dylan Koch: [33:25] I'd say minimum minimum is always 8, but it's usually Yeah. Probably 10 a day.

Dan Austin: [33:30] 10 a least,

Dylan Koch: [33:31] let's say the week. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [33:31] Most yeah. Least two. Okay. Yeah. That's what I was gonna say is probably at least during the weekdays, you're at least ten to twelve, and then probably time on the on the weekends as well.

Dylan Koch: [33:39] Just posted that contract on Saturday in our Slack channel. I know.

Dan Austin: [33:42] Can Yeah. See Exactly. That's how you gotta make money.

Mike DeHaan: [33:44] No matter how much people systematize, you just can't, especially early on, you cannot get away from hard work in one posture or the other.

Dan Austin: [33:53] And I think there's something to be said, you could say it's hard work and there's a difference though, because I guarantee you'd probably work sixteen hours a day before you go back to be in a pharmacy working for somebody else. Like, it is work, but you're the one getting to direct it.

Dylan Koch: [34:06] Yep. Yep. And the only devil's advocate thing I'd say is I can get like, I need to do like the time audit thing where I'd be like, where do I lead, something comes up, I'll go take care of that. It's not really time blocked, whereas like the traditional role you, hey do this for four hours, do this for four hours,

Dan Austin: [34:22] Yeah, I can see you right now, you're probably doing like lead follow-up, doing something else and you're like oh shit, gotta pay the water bill at one of my

Mike DeHaan: [34:27] 41 units. Yeah, know.

Dylan Koch: [34:28] Good, haven't been so much on you, that I would like to admit.

Mike DeHaan: [34:31] Awesome man, well really really cool. Gonna dive into our end of show questions here as we start to wind down. So our first question, and I know that you have some good ones since we exchanged some of the stories in our scale Slack community, but what is your craziest real estate investing story that you have?

Dylan Koch: [34:49] I'll go with a more sad one, guess, but it's one that came to mind. Basically, it's one that I walked the property, it was a foreclosure lead, great school district, great part of town, but after we walked in, it was the first time that I had to consider what is my either legal or moral obligation to call child protective services on some of these people. Because it was filthy, there was dog shit everywhere, they didn't have running water, couldn't even see the floor, there was mold everywhere, and these people were living there, this was their home. And so I know it's like, that's this part of this business that probably people don't talk about a lot, and eventually we really didn't act upon anything because the house got actually sold to somebody else rather quickly, who offered way too much in my opinion. But that would be my story.

Dan Austin: [35:35] Yeah. So, like, that's a sad one because it's kinda tough in this situation, and Mike and I have had to deal with this before where it's like, what is worse? Like, the kid's current situation or what would happen if you called the child protection services? It's a tough thing to do.

Dylan Koch: [35:49] Yeah. They had not done an unanswerable question.

Mike DeHaan: [35:51] Yeah. And also how incredibly complex that is. Mean, we did one where there was literally eight kids that were padlocked in a bedroom.

Dan Austin: [35:57] I mean, that were not actively padlocked in the bedroom.

Mike DeHaan: [36:00] You're right. When we were there, with the moment that we were there, I guess you were there, the padlock was unlocked and they were out for recess in the living room that was full of dead animals.

Dan Austin: [36:10] It was gross, dude. It was the worst, still to this day, the worst smelling building I've been in. I've been in some bad shits.

Mike DeHaan: [36:16] Yeah. So that's a sad one. I know you got a good one that's not a sad one. You must be one that could

Dylan Koch: [36:21] come out right away. I think one of my favorite ones, so we cold called a lady about it. It was just on a high equity list, and it was for one duplex. And I walked in, it's in the straight area of Cincinnati, and I met her, her husband, her brother, and her brother's wife. So this whole family owned these buildings together. And eventually, this is ended up being the 12 units that we sell our finance. So as you know, we bought for a set amount, we put 6% down, they carry 3% debt, which is $1,500,000 in debt for ten years. And the reason that that was good is because to get that deal, we ended up dinner together, I went over to their house a couple times, and by the end of it it was just like the true, I don't know, almost felt like a friendship kind of a thing, but it was a win win for everybody.

Mike DeHaan: [37:09] Yeah, that's always good on stuff like that too. Man, you got fed and you did? I mean, the one time Dan got fed it was by eating shrimp toast from some old dude's like Asian wife that was fifty years younger than him that he mail ordered.

Dan Austin: [37:23] Shrimp toast, yes, that didn't speak English and did not speak English. Yeah, she did not speak English.

Dylan Koch: [37:28] I ran out of offered stuff from sellers before that I turned down just because I was like, I don't want that you're offering.

Dan Austin: [37:33] Yeah, definitely throwing stuff away right as I walked out of their house.

Mike DeHaan: [37:37] Yeah, I'd say it's nice. Yeah, that's big deal too. Yeah, what is that one net cash flow you every single month?

Dylan Koch: [37:43] Right now probably around $4.

Mike DeHaan: [37:46] $4, that's awesome. Like net net, after all expenses and everything.

Dylan Koch: [37:49] Well I had to put some money in to get the rents where they are, but yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [37:52] Yeah, either way that's a great deal. Cool. Alright, next question. What is the number one tip you would have for a small time investor looking to take their business to the next level?

Dylan Koch: [38:02] I would say if you're just starting out, you have a different personality, it's probably gonna feel scary, so just feel the fear and do it anyway. And then be consistent. I think if you give yourself enough runway for three to six months at a time, it's really hard to fail if you keep attempting on it. And then at least you can diagnose a problem too. If it's a lead problem, if it's a sales problem, and then just adjust accordingly.

Dan Austin: [38:26] Sure. Super valuable. The fear. And I mean, I

Mike DeHaan: [38:29] think a big thing that helps that too is getting around other investors. Right? And people that are running the same businesses. Like you were involved in CCF with us before, and now you're super involved in scale. And I think such an underrated thing is like finding people that are actually building similar businesses to what you're trying to build. Right. You know so many people they go into like these really broad things, they try to find people that are local that aren't necessarily as ambitious or as driven, and it's just not a comparable at that point, right?

Dylan Koch: [38:57] Right. So being around the other people, obviously I have the scale community with you guys, I made a good network with people around here that I know. Some of the deals we do now are from referrals too, so that's a big part of it. To give some context to what you're saying, I don't know what month I joined Scale, but after I did, what I like about you guys is everything that's out there is geared towards being a real estate investor, not a business owner. And that's where you guys, I feel like you differentiate yourself. So maybe my business has, I guess I'd be just under two x since I joined you guys from that year. Yeah,

Dan Austin: [39:31] Yeah, that's

Dylan Koch: [39:32] so I don't know, for people listening, just do with that information as you wish.

Mike DeHaan: [39:36] Yeah. And it's funny you say that because like honestly that's become a challenging thing with like the Collecting Keys brand, is we are business owners more so than real estate investors right now. And so like when we have our stuff, our real estate content's actually pretty lame because we're too busy running the business. And our team, like they're doing real estate stuff, but we aren't.

Dan Austin: [39:54] When was

Dylan Koch: [39:54] the last time you talked to a seller?

Mike DeHaan: [39:56] I actually talked to one last week.

Dan Austin: [39:59] I'm trying to think, mine is probably like six weeks ago.

Mike DeHaan: [40:01] That was the last one, that was the most recent one and before that was probably six or eight months.

Dan Austin: [40:06] Yeah. We'll get on when it's complicated or we're like interested, especially if it's a local deal. Like Yeah. I'm down to I'm down to clown when it's local stuff just because I get, you know, somebody you never don't you see.

Mike DeHaan: [40:15] Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah. The one that I did last week, it was because there was somebody on Bigger Pockets. I got flagged in, somebody talked about Spokane, and somebody said they were trying to sell a duplex. And I hit them up and wanted to hear what their duplex was.

Dan Austin: [40:28] See that's just Hustler though, that has nothing to do with our business, that's just Mike Hustler.

Mike DeHaan: [40:31] Literally not our business, this is just a true name of opportunity. And I'm talking about subject to transaction with this guy that's trying to get out from underneath this duplex that he overbought. But like yeah, it's literally out through our pipeline, that's just me seeing the opportunity and trying to get out.

Dan Austin: [40:46] Love for the game baby.

Mike DeHaan: [40:47] Yeah, totally. Well I mean I like to talk to good sellers. You know how this is too, Dylan, you've been around for a while. Like talking to good sellers is fun, or like you know other investors, or you know people that like literally do have a problem. What is the hard part about this business is when you build that big lead funnel to find motivated individuals. And you're dealing with the crackheads, you're dealing with people that have no personal or financial responsibility, you're dealing with the people that are like kinda all over just like with their lives and every other piece, and so you know the transaction's gonna be hard, that's what I hire my team for. They can deal with Right, that for

Dylan Koch: [41:21] yeah. Well yeah, but to the solopadors that are out there, that's another, the mental piece of this, because if you pick up the phone and dial 50 people and get told to fuck off 49 times, I don't care who you are, that's tough.

Dan Austin: [41:32] Right, right.

Dylan Koch: [41:33] That's a

Mike DeHaan: [41:33] weird RS guy.

Dylan Koch: [41:34] So being around other people obviously helps with that. Today I posted something like, look at this message I got, and now it's humorous from some of the group. So just being able to

Dan Austin: [41:44] share that with people helps. Yep. And other people share it and then you're like okay cool, I'm not the only one.

Dylan Koch: [41:48] Right, exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [41:49] So everyone has stories. That's the easiest way to identify if someone actually is in the game or not is if they have those sort of interactions with people. And if there are those out there who are like, oh, no. All of our sellers are are easy. I'm like, well, means you don't do Liar. Yeah. Because They're like,

Dylan Koch: [42:05] yeah. I

Mike DeHaan: [42:06] know you're probably being very choosy about what you pursue and you're not doing a lot of volume because it's Exactly. Exactly. Alright. Where can people find you, follow you, and reach out to you?

Dylan Koch: [42:18] Yeah. I'm gonna say I'm active, but I have all the social media handles. I think all of them, this type of my name, is Dylan Cook or just eleven d cook on social media platforms, it actually popped right up.

Mike DeHaan: [42:28] Yeah. And you've been doing a handful of other podcasts here, you're just on Real Estate Rockstars and doing a show.

Dylan Koch: [42:34] I don't think I realized how big that podcast was until I was on it.

Mike DeHaan: [42:37] Real Estate Rockstars is really big.

Dylan Koch: [42:38] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was like, I got some DMs after that. I'm like, oh shit, there's a lot of people that listen Right. To

Mike DeHaan: [42:43] Yeah. I think it's probably the biggest agent podcast right now.

Dan Austin: [42:46] It's definitely good. It's been around for

Mike DeHaan: [42:48] Yeah. A long

Dylan Koch: [42:49] There good people over there too.

Mike DeHaan: [42:51] So Cool. Dylan, well, really appreciate you coming on the show my man. And you guys, you should definitely reach out to Dylan if you want to hear any more about how he has grown his hustlepreneur business. I mean, as you can tell, has been doing this for incredibly long, but he's built a really solid income for himself in a very, impressive portfolio. And also too, I'm guessing that if anyone's in Cincinnati, you'd be more than happy to network him as well. 100%. 100%. Cool. Awesome, guys. Well, reach out to Dylan and go and share this episode with anybody who thinks that they are not capable of building a real estate business because Dylan has showed you that you absolutely are because he had no background, no sales background, little bit of real estate knowledge, and he decided to take a leap and figure it out. So you can do the same thing.

Dan Austin: [43:33] That guy stopped selling drugs, started wholesaling houses.

Mike DeHaan: [43:36] Exactly. From selling drugs to wholesaling houses. Whitney, that's the name of this podcast.

Dylan Koch: [43:41] That's the title of a podcast episode. Yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [43:43] Yeah. They're gonna be so let down. It went from selling drugs to buying houses from drug dealers pretty much.

Dylan Koch: [43:49] Yeah. Wait. But shared that with my mom.

Dan Austin: [43:51] So you

Mike DeHaan: [43:52] could stew. Perfect. So Awesome, everybody. Well, thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you guys next week. See y'all.