Maximizing Your Deal Flow On a Budget with Jonathan Greene

Jonathan Greene: [0:00] If you just look at foreclosures and preforeclosures, you know, that's a popular list that people run. Yeah. For inexperienced people, they're leading with the preforecl I know you're in preforeclosure. I know you're in foreclosure. Bro, are you kidding me? Nobody first of all, nobody wants to admit that. Two, why don't you just tell them that they've committed a crime?

Speaker 2: [0:18] Welcome to the collecting keys real estate investing podcast with your host, Mike DeHaan and Dan Austin. From wins, losses, horror stories, and tactics for optimizing your business, Mike and Dan take a real uncensored deep dive into the ins and outs of running a full time real estate investment and wholesaling business.

Mike DeHaan: [0:41] What is going on, guys? On today's episode of the collecting keys real estate investing podcast, we have Jonathan Greene, who is a true, like, deep down real estate veteran who has been involved in real estate since, like, the seventies. He was growing up with his dad to even now he owns a very successful real estate team. He's owned all kinds of different assets. And he is one of the, I would say, most passionate real estate investors that we've had on the show that like just really loves the game and loves real estate. He loves the game, he's been in

Dan Austin: [1:13] it a long time, but he's still, you know, like, you can tell is like the day to day of real estate still involved in it. Yeah. Still likes it.

Mike DeHaan: [1:19] You know, he's he's not he's not all jaded and burned out like most people are, you know, even after like five years.

Dan Austin: [1:25] Yeah. Or he hasn't stepped into, like, oh, I did it in the seventies with my dad. Now I run a syndication. Exactly.

Mike DeHaan: [1:30] He's just Yeah. Yeah. He's just doing the fundamentals extremely well. And the thing that I I love too about this episode, Dan, is he goes into all these different tactics about how he has found properties that are like isn't like traditional mass marketing. Like, is very pointed stuff. It's awesome for people that are looking to get started, that are on a budget Yep. That, you know, don't know how exactly they're gonna, like, stretch their dollar to be able to make investments where you're kind of balancing the acquisition versus the marketing and all that sort of stuff, he has a great solution for you, so you don't have to worry about that.

Dan Austin: [2:03] He shared three of his seven like favorite niche letters or I would call them. Like super or he called it micro marketing.

Mike DeHaan: [2:10] Yep.

Dan Austin: [2:10] And I can guarantee you if you do what he said and use that copy, you'll get a deal and you won't have to spend very much money doing it.

Mike DeHaan: [2:17] No. You have to spend a little bit of time. That's a trade off of money. Right? Money allows you to not have to spend the time. But if you have more time than money, then you should definitely try these micro marketing methods. So anyways, guys, he's really an incredible wealth of knowledge. I know you will get a ton out of this episode. Absolutely reach out to him. He's a really solid guy. I've, you know, been following him a lot on Instagram and everything else he's involved in since he came on this show and since I was on his show a few weeks ago. And, you know, he's more than happy to chat with people too. He will bring you value just because he's so into real estate. So absolutely hit him up. So guys, please share this episode with anyone who might find it interesting. You can also go to collectingkeyspodcast.com/free. Get our free five step guide for generating off market leads. Besides that, enjoy the show, guys. It's a really great one. Alright, Jonathan Greene, we have a true veteran here today. And I am so excited, man. You know, I was on your podcast not too long ago. And we built a good bond there just on our kind of shared, I guess, interests and knowledge and sort of different real estate specific things. And you have been involved in so many different parts of the real estate business, and for a long time. So super excited to have you on the show.

Mike DeHaan: [3:32] So for people who don't know about you, maybe give us the background, you know, where you came from, how you got into real estate and all the stuff that you've been working on in your long tenure in this business.

Jonathan Greene: [3:45] Yeah. Sure. Dan and Mike, I appreciate you guys having me on. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. So I I grew up with a dad who was an attorney, but also his really primary job was investing in real estate, which I didn't really understand at the time why he was dragging me around to yard sales every single weekend. We go to nine, ten yard sales, get a crappy football at everyone, which was like fine with me, but then I didn't realize that he was making offers on all those homes. He was way, way ahead of his time. So he used to pull all the foreclosure lists. He knew all the clerks, we would go to foreclosures. He would push me through the window. This is old school. I mean, this is like in the seventies. I'm old, seasoned, but old. Yeah. So there was no Internet. You know, you get the list from the courthouse. Most of them were vacant. If they were vacant, I'd go in, you know, through a window, open the door. Someone was commenting on something saying like, oh, you were trespassing. I'm like, this is nineteen seventies. This is literally how they told you to do it. It it was vacant, but there was no lock boxes. You know, they didn't even have really code boxes at the time. As I grew up in that, I guess I didn't realize how much I was learning.

Jonathan Greene: [4:47] And then as I became 18, 20, I started, like, really paying attention. I would come home in the summers from college and I would manage my dad's rental properties and he would just leave me the ledger at the time which was on paper and he'd say, well, here's all the collections that you need to get. You'd have twenty, thirty rental properties. And he's like, you need to collect them. And I was like, well, why aren't there in all the boxes? Like, oh, well, they haven't been paying. Like, great. He's like, yeah, it's your job to figure out how to get the money. So I figured it out, and I think that's kind of where I started to really understand real estate. He put real estate in my name when I was young, so I was at properties and understanding them. But it was really like 18 to 20 where I was like, I think I can do this my whole life regardless of my jobs. Really?

Mike DeHaan: [5:30] That's crazy. So you just like put you out, you know, knocking on doors of these people who weren't paying. Like, did you figure out how to get the money? Like, do you have a sales pitch or are you like trying to, you know, strong-arm them?

Jonathan Greene: [5:42] No. It's funny because I'm obviously a licensed agent too. I I always say I'm a terrible salesperson. I'm a great adviser, and I think I learned a lot from my dad and that collections wasn't hard collections. Like, you're gonna pay or I'm gonna kick you out. I think that's probably how I thought. You know, was 18. I'm like, you know, I'll just tell them I'll kick them out. He's like, that's not really how, you know, landlord tenancy works in New York. Yeah. So I tried to find out, you know, what their pain point was, what the expectation was, when we could expect payment, could they start paying a little bit? And then I also just realized that my dad had a tremendous empathy for the tenants and being a landlord. He wasn't in it to squeeze people. He was not a slumlord. He liked to help people. And he did a lot of investments. I learned a lot. We basically I would go to his house on the weekends. And then the second that the house had everything that we wanted, it was like our favorite house ever. He would tell us we're moving. I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? We're moving. He's like, well, yeah, this is how much money we're gonna make in the house. I said, okay. That makes sense.

Jonathan Greene: [6:38] And then we go and do it again. So I lived in flip houses growing up Let's move. All the time and kind of understood. And, you know, I did put my kids through that as well because I just I like moving. I saw would move and move, fix a house, move. You know, I think part of that helped them a lot, but part of it was a little bit less stable.

Mike DeHaan: [6:55] Yeah. Right. I mean, said something that I've never had anyone say before, which is I like moving. I like to move. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [7:01] I have to.

Jonathan Greene: [7:02] I'm a sicko. Like, I have problems. Yeah. I like it.

Mike DeHaan: [7:05] Yeah. Now that's interesting though. So I guess then, is that what you did, I guess, to get started with real estate as you got into adulthood? You said you were managing your dad's properties. That kind of gave you the introduction. At what point did you start seeking investments yourself?

Jonathan Greene: [7:21] So because of my dad, I had already ownership in twenty, thirty properties before I was 18. So I I understood the acquisition aspect. But the first property I bought on my own, was I would I think I was in law school. I was in Florida in law school, and I bought just like a a it was a a single family home, but it was in, like, a generic development in Plantation, Florida. Like, literally, all the houses looked the same. But what I was looking for, there was, like, six or seven on the market at the time. Remember, there's no there's no Internet, so you're not looking at pictures on the MLS, so it's much different. So there were six available in this giant macro development, and I just looked for the worst one. And literally all I it was a great place. They all were pretty like new. I went in, re carpeted the parts that needed to be carpeted, repainted the whole thing, cleaned and fixed everything, lived there for like a year and a half. And then I was like, I think I'm gonna sell it. When I went to sell it, I made $25 at the time. This was like 1990, late nineties. And I was like, wait a minute. Now I'm starting to do what he taught me to do without even knowing. And there were still some of the properties that I was looking at were still on the market because they were in this mid range where they were too expensive. I just bought the crappiest one and did nothing, and it sold sold for more. Yep. So that that was really the time.

Jonathan Greene: [8:39] And then, of course, from there I went. I bought a single family in Downtown Fort Lauderdale, that's what really started like my own personal, like, kind of, I guess, flipping or what I I like to call back flipping is what I do a lot, which is flipping after I'm done with the house. And, yeah, I didn't realize how much he taught me until it started to crystallize kind of as an adult, and I started playing with houses. But it was interesting. I think the thing that helps me, that is hard for newer investors is I've been in thousands of houses.

Mike DeHaan: [9:07] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [9:08] I was in thousands of houses before I was, you know, 10. So I had an idea of what smell, feel, touch, you know, what things are wrong, when you can tell. So I I was very advanced in in that area, and I think that helps me now. I can, you know, evaluate a rehab cost in five minutes without, you know, being like maybe $10,000 off, but for anything unforeseen. And I think that's the hardest thing for new investors, even for wholesalers, you know, you're doing acquisition, but are you missing all the stuff in the basement that's gonna be the hard cost to your end buyer later? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great point.

Mike DeHaan: [9:40] Yeah. And that's something that's, you know, you can't really like learn without doing either. Right? It's hard. Even with our business, we haven't been in it for nearly as long as he we've only been doing this full time for three years. But in those years in Spokane, our local market, we have walked through so many properties. We've bought insane number of properties. And we know the areas now that someone can give me like a street and like a zip code. And I can probably guess not only what the house is worth, but if I know like the bed bath count, I know what it looks like. Right? Because there's only so many different And that's just such a huge advantage. And you got that at such a young age. Like, that's amazing. No. So so that's cool. So that so you started buying investments at that point. Was that were you an agent by then or were you just trying to be a professional investor?

Jonathan Greene: [10:25] No. I mean, I was a lawyer, so I I went to law school in Florida, and then I was a prosecutor for seven years, criminal defense attorney for two years. So the negotiation part of real estate is is fun for me because nobody's going to prison or nobody died. So it's much easier. I take it Right. Much easier, which I always say on the negotiation aspect, like, your your biggest power play in real estate investing is your willingness to walk away. Right. And I love to walk away because I know the pressure of what it takes when you're negotiating for thirty year prison sentences. You know, you need to walk away from things to make them know how important it is. So that's how I am as an investor. And I think that negotiation techniques have worked well for me because I'll drop any deal, which does mean there's deals that I probably shouldn't have dropped, but, know, oh, well, that happens if somebody else does well on it, that's okay. But that's a big thing that I think is also hard for new investors, especially acquisition. You know, they're going out and they're just pushing the same thing like, hey, you know, this is what this is the number I have. The number is really not as important as people think for off market acquisition. You guys know this from all of your acquisition.

Jonathan Greene: [11:29] It's just about solving problems. If you're not talking to the person and finding if they don't know where they're going, you're not buying the house. So you can sit there for an hour and talk about price, but if they don't know Great point. They don't have any idea where they're going or they're, you know, it's an old person and their relatives aren't taking them in and not going to nursing home, what are you doing there? You're wasting time that you could be spending on something else, And that's where a lot of new investors are just banging their heads against, oh, this doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's because you're not not focused on the person. It's a relationship first business.

Mike DeHaan: [11:57] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [11:57] The money stuff. There's hundreds of stories out there of investors who got a deal where they weren't the best offer, but the person liked them.

Mike DeHaan: [12:06] Mhmm.

Dan Austin: [12:06] I mean, and that's really the way that it it it works. That's so true. I mean, like, Mike and I, I remember when we first started out, like, thought, I guess, we could just like force them to sell to us, if we just kept negotiating, and that's when we were focused on price. But the minute we realized that we were able to solve the problem, that's when our business really took off. It was about solving the problem, it's not about the deal. We tell that to new investors all the time, you can't make somebody sell you their house if they have nowhere to physically move.

Mike DeHaan: [12:32] Mhmm. Exactly. And I think one of the reasons that our eyes kinda open to that too was your initial leads were all with these, like, people that had bankruptcies and things like that. So we thought that they were from these really bad positions. K? And they would have no choice. But then the first deal that we actually did, we bought from a dentist who had no real motivation to sell other than the fact that he wanted to ten thirty one exchange the money into something else, and he wanted it to be easy. And he was willing to take less money for that. And that was kind of like a light bulb moment. Right? Of like, oh, you know, this is a solution focused business and not strictly just an asset focused business.

Jonathan Greene: [13:11] Yeah. I mean, if you just look at foreclosures and pre foreclosures, you know, that's a popular list that people run. But, I mean, for inexperienced people, they're leading with the pre forecl I know you're in pre foreclosure. I know you're in foreclosure. Bro, are you kidding me?

Mike DeHaan: [13:24] That's

Jonathan Greene: [13:24] it. Nobody first of all, nobody wants to admit that. Two, why don't you just tell them that they've committed crime? They feel terrible about it. You have to go on this long circuitous route about, hey. If you wanna talk about the preforeclosure, you do it like it's a mistake. Like, that's the dialogue. I that's one of the things I'm an expert is dialogues. The dialogue when you wanna get to, hey. You know, we have to talk about those at some point. I was looking through the records. This is wrong all the time. This is probably wrong for you, but it says that, you know, you owe more than there. That's a side dialogue that gets them in where they can dispute or not, but you can't lead on a pre foreclosure with like, you're broke and you didn't pay, you know, your mortgage, bad person. Can I buy your house for cash? They're never gonna sell you the house. You're like a jerk. You have to like, you know, massage your way in. And that's why, you know, I think that's why a lot of the guru training sessions out there, you know, they're not, it's not being trained the right way because none and nothing at scale is paying attention to the person. It's just paying attention to the dollars. Like people who are like, well, I'll make, you know, remember people as an agent, I'd get investors because we have a big investor portal and they'd say like, well, I wanna make like 10 offers a week, but all super low balls. And I said, why would I do that? And how's that a good use of my time? I look stupid everyone that you said that's I'm not gonna do that. Like do that with somebody else because that's not the right way to get properties.

Jonathan Greene: [14:42] It's just like what you read on a bandit sign or something.

Mike DeHaan: [14:45] Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [14:47] So true.

Mike DeHaan: [14:47] But I mean, it's funny because like I don't know if there's another business that I can think of that is quite like that. And that's why people don't understand it, you know, because you can go and read like sales books, watch salespeople on, know, YouTube gurus. And this is also the biggest red flags when you have like the wholesale investor sales coaches, right, that are heavily pushing like, you know, Wolf of Wall Street tactics or like the chest pounding, like, you know, I'm gonna make a thousand phone calls a day. Yeah. That isn't really how this business works at all. You know? I'm sure you do that. You're gonna find suckers after a while, but you're not going to provide a good service for people, and your logitivity in the business is going to be extremely small. Yep. Extremely extremely short rather. So it's just like, I don't know. Is there any other business that's like that that's sort of so sensitive? I mean, it's really niche, honestly.

Jonathan Greene: [15:40] Well, I mean, I think, like, I look at off market acquisition a lot, you know, from my days of like door to door salespeople. You know, they're not expecting you, you know, in wholesaling or off market, they are expecting you for the most part, but they're not expecting the first call and you're trying to figure out what their motivation is. You know, door to door salespeople grew their business by figuring out if they hopefully had a good product, but what they were missing. And again, that's what we're telling people now to do. Find out what the problem is. You can't plug the problem. Every problem isn't plugged with cash. Actually like 90 to 95% are not plugged with cash.

Mike DeHaan: [16:16] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [16:16] Some person who owns their home outright has been there thirty years, you know, would like to go to Florida but doesn't know how to get there. They don't need your cash. They own it outright. They bought it for 12,500. It's worth 265 now. They don't need cash. Cash quick cash is completely irrelevant to them. You know? It makes no difference. And that's that's where at scale, people are failing because they're not figuring out what I consider, like, the science and art of investing instead of, like, you know, what we were saying is just like, yeah, Wolf of Wall Street. Sure. You can bang the phones, but like whatever. Just you can hire VA's if that's the way you want to do it. Why would I do that? I don't even like to. I don't even talk on the phone so you know. But what so one thing that I learned over the years that I think is interesting in this context of what we're talking about is I make, you know, when I was doing hard off market acquisition, I used a company that would create a lot of phone calls, but then I would do the phone calls differently. Once I got the first call in, I'd find out what they're doing. But what I would do is I would follow-up every month just like everybody else, but I would never talk about the property ever. Once out of every four months I would ask about the property and the same thing happened every time.

Jonathan Greene: [17:21] They'd say like, hey, you didn't even ask about the property. And I'd say, Bob, I know when you're ready to sell, you're gonna, you're gonna let me know from now on. I'm just checking up and seeing how how it's doing, you know, Is your rep role? Do you need anything? You need a contractor? That's how you win properties. But again, that's long term. That means you're building a business. So you're gonna be there for long term and not working a short term job where you're saying like, I wanna be a wholesaler so then I can be an investor. Then I wanna be a multifamily investor. And then I wanna be, you know, Bob Kiyosaki. It doesn't go like that. You know? Like, there's there's a lot of steps on them that you're gonna, you know, you're gonna fall into a sinkhole doing that.

Mike DeHaan: [17:56] Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's just that the problem is the get rich quick scheme sells more mastermind courses. Right? So that's why everyone pushes Totally. It's more flash. Yeah. Well, Austin, I think that's a great transition. I know that this is something that you have figured out like a good, I guess, like, niche with direct mail that we're talking about before. You got on here about how to give this similar similar sort of customer experience and messaging through the direct mail that you normally use. You know, we're big proponents for direct mail. It's our it's our main deal source. But one of the biggest pieces of pushback, I guess, that we always get from, you know, people that engage with us or ask what we do is they just don't have the, you know, the finances to be able to send out these massive, you know, campaigns and different things. But you were saying before the show that you actually have a strategy that makes so that isn't quite as big of a deal, which I would love to hear some more specifics on.

Jonathan Greene: [18:46] Yeah. I mean, the principles are built around micro marketing versus macro marketing or small scale versus spray and pray. You know, spray and pray is mailing out. You have enough money to mail out, and you know you have the background to field the calls, and it's a system. And when they get to you, it's already fully realized the appointment's gonna happen or you even have an acquisition team. But, like, for your brand new investor, like, if you don't wanna spend a lot, you should be first start out writing one to one letters, and your one to one letter should always be in the neighborhood where you live or where you're really looking. So it doesn't really work as much for out of state because I'll explain. So I have one specific letter and or postcard that I know I can tell people about because I know most of them aren't gonna do this because this is harder work. It is. So like us as investors, we can expose our secrets because no one's gonna do the work. But if you do this, it will work. It's called the concerned citizen letter. You can do it as a letter or as a postcard. So there's a couple different ways to do it depending on like what you use for your off market acquisition. It's great if you can take a picture of it and then add it quickly to a postcard.

Jonathan Greene: [19:48] That's how this works. So you walk by a house if you're driving or walking for dollars in your area, you know, your target area. You're gonna take a picture of one of the dumpiest houses in the neighborhood, you know, with all the classic signs that everybody knows to look for. Broken windows, gutters hanging down, you know, mail on the front, cars without wheels, no tracks in the driveway when it's snow. You're gonna look for all those high grass things that the post office looks for when they're gonna mark vacant or just something that's messed up. You're gonna make sure that you make a list of those. You're gonna first start with that list and then see who all the absentee owners are. And you start with the farthest away. So if I'm looking in New Jersey and I have a list of thirteen, seven are absentee, meaning they don't live there, so I'm down to seven, Then I'm gonna look where they all live, and if I'll start in California.

Mike DeHaan: [20:36] Okay.

Jonathan Greene: [20:36] So I start in California because they're the most detached from the property. And the first thing I do is quickly run them to see if they own any other properties in the area because what new investors don't know is that a lot of people you wouldn't expect will own ten, fifteen properties all in the same area. Mhmm. And you wanna know which other ones they have when you're calling because they will appreciate that. If you talk to someone who owns 10 properties, they're gonna say, actually, this one's doing pretty well, but I do have a crap one that I'd like to get rid of. That's your end because they'll get they'll that's the one that they'll sell or finance, by the way, also, but that's a that's a side note. So generally, you make that list. You're gonna go take a picture of the first property, the biggest dump. You're gonna hopefully have done good skip tracing. You have their number. You're gonna get in touch with them first. Your dialogue is the same every time. Hey. My name is Jonathan. I'm a local investor. I walk through the neighborhood all the time. I was actually walking by the property that you own at 123 Main Street. I know you live far away, so I just wanna let you know. It's actually not in great shape. So just as a concerned citizen, I wanna let you know it doesn't look good, and I'm an investor too, so I thought you would wanna know.

Jonathan Greene: [21:42] I'm actually gonna text you a picture right when we get off the phone of what the front looks like, where I think the biggest issues are. And look, I'm always through the neighborhood. So if you want every month on the first of the month, I'm gonna text you a new picture just to let you know if it's being kept up. PS, if you're ever looking to sell, this is an area that I buy in, but I'm happy to help. I love working with other investors. That's the end of the dialogue. There's no sale in there whatsoever. Who's gonna say no to that?

Dan Austin: [22:06] Mhmm. Right.

Jonathan Greene: [22:07] That's the differentiator. What absentee owner who's an investor who's talking to another investor is gonna say, actually, no. You know what? I'm good. I'm 3,000 miles away. You're walking through the neighborhood, but I don't want you to send me a picture every month. And that sets up your dialogue, and it also sets up that you're there to help. And, honestly, I am there to help. I like other investors, and that's why you start with absentee because I think absentee gets what investing is about. So it's an easier dialogue than talking to like, you know, a 75 year old, like we said before, who has nowhere to go. So that's a concerned citizen. And then your follow-up is pretty rigid every month. You're just gonna send the same picture. It works. You know? But again, like I said in the beginning Yeah. I can tell everybody this because most people aren't gonna do it. They're like, well, I don't wanna walk the neighborhood. I don't wanna, you know, send a text. I don't wanna tell them what's wrong with the property. I mean, okay. But then you have to send more mailers.

Mike DeHaan: [22:59] Uh-huh.

Jonathan Greene: [22:59] If you send that, there's no chance you're not gonna get a response in six months. I mean, like, seriously, almost no chance. Who's not responding to that? Because you're trying to create actions where someone really has no reason to say no.

Mike DeHaan: [23:13] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [23:14] Why would someone say no?

Mike DeHaan: [23:15] So then you follow it up with a letter as well, or are you doing this all over the phone and at SMS?

Jonathan Greene: [23:21] I do almost nothing over the phone. That first call, if it's a if it's a callback from something, if I'm doing it direct, they try everything else to get it in their hands. So I always suggest for that neighborhood investor who's just getting started to do handwritten letters that they write themselves. They don't put through a program. Write them yourselves, sign your name, explain who you are, be the couple who's just looking for their first investment. But always mail absentee owners. I mean, absentee owners should be first on everybody's list because they're so much easier to have a dialogue with. I just had one yesterday. Guy's cool. It's just an easy dialogue. Right. I mean, we've all had so many f u phone calls in our life. You know which ones they're gonna be. You know, why are you calling someone that's owned the property seven years and they're a single family home owner and you didn't look and they have a sign out in their yard, you know, that one kid graduated, but if you looked on Facebook, they had two kid graduate. This this is research.

Mike DeHaan: [24:11] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [24:11] So if you're a small scale, you have to spend more time in research because you don't have the money to spend, you know, in that. So I'd rather buy a list for a thousand bucks and, like, go bananas researching that list on every social media platform, figure out who's who because that's gonna be your only spend. You don't have the money to keep spending, so you have to figure out how you're gonna do it with just one stamp, you know, each time.

Dan Austin: [24:33] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great I feel like that's a really good piece of advice because it's it's like instead of going a mile wide across your entire city or state or nationally, you're just gonna go a mile, you know, inch wide and a mile deep in your neighborhood where you should know really well your own backyard and just really gut it out because I can pretty sure guarantee you're gonna find a deal that way. I got my first off market deal in my neighborhood, so that was pretty cool. So I can justify You're

Jonathan Greene: [25:00] creating a connection with an owner or an absentee owner because you're from there. So, again, this is harder to do if you're doing it outside. Mhmm. But if you're picking markets outside, you know, the way that I tell everyone to pick an out of state market is first make a list of every place you've ever lived in. Second, make a list of where your best friends and your family live. You know, the first list can include where you went to school. And then look at the markets that are quote trending and see if they match up with any of those on your list. You might find one where you're like, actually, I lived there for five years. Why wouldn't then you have a built in mark. You know the area like you were saying before, Mike. You know the streets, so that helps you. You're looking for markets where you have a competitive advantage and that's why you start, you know, where you can walk. Hey, I'm walking right by your house. I walk my dog by your house every day. It looks like crap. I'm trying to help you. Your tenant has a blown out window. There a bird could fly through there at any time. Know? They're gonna appreciate that. I would appreciate that.

Mike DeHaan: [25:57] Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [25:57] I get all the calls, you know, from the properties that we used to own and all the BS calls. You know? Drives me crazy. I'd like a real call where somebody says, hey, You know, did you know so I'll tell you a quick story. We owned a property. This this is awful. We owned a property in California, and we were Airbnb ing it at the time. This is before Airbnb, so it was on Vrbo or HomeAway at the time. And my sister actually lived close, and we kept getting calls. And we're like, what the hell is the problem? We're getting calls from the police like the HOA development was calling us, and it it was California. It's not Florida, so you don't get as many HOA calls. And and we found they're like, there's people outside, like, smoking all the time. We're like, what? So we found out that the people that we did the it was kind of like a midterm rental to was running a drug rehab.

Mike DeHaan: [26:42] That sounds nice.

Jonathan Greene: [26:43] And we didn't know. And we're like, oh, my bad. And because we had the correct contracts, we we got them kicked out in, like, an hour in California. The police went over and just like jettisoned the whole But again, you know, if someone hadn't told us, we might have just been ruining the neighborhood because we didn't know. So, you know, you're you wanna be a participant and help other investors or, you know, single family owners. If they're in California and they own one property in New Jersey, why do they want the property in New Jersey? They don't. Yeah. You have to buy it from them.

Dan Austin: [27:10] Exactly, yeah. This is true. This is true. You know, that's funny, it's like a total side note here too, just this is a hack that I found out, that when you buy properties near older ladies, they will make sure you know if your tenants are doing something weird, so buy properties next to old ladies because they will call you all the time.

Mike DeHaan: [27:29] Until they report you to the city for the grasping too long. True.

Jonathan Greene: [27:33] Yeah. That comes with the territory as well. But one other thing on that, I think one thing that I've learned about pre foreclosures or courthouse steps auctions, which, again, they're not very popular after the pandemic. They've kind of, like, are gone. But Mhmm. The best acquisition method for courthouse steps foreclosures was, you know, there's no access. So you're hoping for the best, but all you do is you knock across the street and you knock next door both across the street and then, next door. So you knock five houses around one. You'll know everything that you need to know about the outside from talking to the five neighbors. You won't need any more information. And that's what we used to do. We used to have investors would come to use me as an adviser, and I would do the knock. I would do the data in advance for them. And then they were able to buy at courthouse steps because we had maximized the value finding out like, what's going on over there? And they'd literally tell you stories where you're like, okay, it's gonna be a hoarder's house. And it was a hoarder's house.

Mike DeHaan: [28:28] Yeah.

Dan Austin: [28:29] Wow. That's good advice right there alone. I wanna hear another one that you mentioned. So we've got the concerned citizen letter, I love that. And I think I know where this one's gonna go, but the I wanna be just like you letter.

Jonathan Greene: [28:41] Yeah. So this goes a little bit of what I said. Like, whenever you're pulling a list, you always wanna run that person through the tax database to see how many properties they own. So when you do catch one who owns, you know, multiple properties, five to 10 in in a specific area that you like, your letter is gonna be the I wanna be just like you. It's, hey, Bob. Look. I'm a brand new investor. I'm looking for my first property. I ran you through the tax records because I was interested in 123 Main Street. I saw that you own 10 properties. Wow. That's so amazing. I would love to get some advice from you about how you got there. You know, when I get older, I'd like to have 10 properties as well. Is there any advice that you could give me? And that's it. There's no sell. People are too hard on the sell. There's not an investor in the country in the world. You guys know this because you are. If someone comes to you like that and they're like, I'd like to can you just give me, like, five minutes of quick advice? Not like, hey. I wanna take you to coffee. I'll never go to that. But if it's like, hey. I'm trying to do x. Yeah. I don't know whether to do y or z. I've seen what you've done. That's impressive.

Jonathan Greene: [29:42] Can you answer this question for me? All of us will answer that question. There's again, like I said, there's so many stories of those deals happening from people who came to the table trying to learn, and then an investor with 10 properties is like, listen. I'll just give you this one for a good deal. Like, I wanna help you get your first deal. I have 10 properties. This one's crappy, but I'm gonna give it to you for a crappy price. And that's how it works. So that one, investors all like to talk about themselves. So why aren't you feeding the ego while you're trying to do it and build a relationship? It's a great point.

Mike DeHaan: [30:12] Yeah. I mean, here's the problem though is the stuff that you're saying is too entrepreneurial and makes too much common sense. Right? That's too simple. The current the current mindset of all the wannabe investors is, you know, this is part of hustle culture, whatever. Everyone's like, I need to be building a massive scalable system from the start. I'm like, you haven't even done a deal yet.

Dan Austin: [30:32] Yeah. You don't even know what the system needs to look like yet.

Mike DeHaan: [30:34] Yeah. Exactly. Right? And it's funny. People will look at Dana, and they're like, you guys scaled up really quick, you know, because you started doing this in 2020. It's like, but what you miss is you miss the six years, five years before that, where Dan was DIY rehabbing student rentals, you know, or the three years before we started where I was watching YouTube videos, like learning how to hang drywall. And like, you know, me and my wife, like, with tenants awkwardly watching us trying to figure out how to put their bathroom back together.

Jonathan Greene: [30:59] Oh, yeah.

Mike DeHaan: [31:00] Right? You know, the people skip that part now, and they always just wanna try and make things scalable, but it just it doesn't make any sense. Right? You kinda have to go through these learning processes to be successful long term. Now I I love that. And that's such great advice. Right? There's just so much wisdom in everything that you said. It's awesome. Well, and

Dan Austin: [31:17] one more I would add is it takes away the excuse of, like, not being able to start because everybody can go get that data that you just talked about. They can handwrite the letters. I'm I'm assuming most people listen to this podcast know how to read and write. They So could write those letters, and those are actually, mean that copy is really good, and I 100% agree with on the concerned citizen letter, and I wanna be just like, you're absolutely right, you're talking to landlords that do investments. That's why they're in it, They're in the game so that that's already going to be an easier conversation to open up as opposed to knocking on someone's door and be like, I

Jonathan Greene: [31:47] heard you're poor, sell me your house. Exactly. Yeah, right. Have one more for you if you guys want one more. I have a set of, like, seven, but I'll give you one more. It's called the caretaker. Let's see if you guys can guess what it is.

Mike DeHaan: [32:00] The caretaker?

Dan Austin: [32:01] The caretaker.

Mike DeHaan: [32:04] I mean, is that, like, one where you go find where, like, the old people live and you say that you're concerned about

Jonathan Greene: [32:08] how old they are? I don't know. That's in the ballpark.

Dan Austin: [32:11] I was gonna say it was gonna be the, like, yeah, the the old people's kids.

Mike DeHaan: [32:14] Yeah. It's in the ballpark.

Jonathan Greene: [32:15] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So the caretaker is an old person letter. It has to be handwritten because they will they open their mail. Nobody else does. I I literally don't open my mail for a year at a time. They open their mail, and it's it's somebody who's lived there, owns a property outright, and, like, they've owned it, like, not we're not talking ten years. You these are ones where you're looking thirty, forty years owned, and you have a feeling, like, if you run them on Spokio or something, they're, like, eighties. Yep. So you write the letter, and you have to be honest about it. Like, you know, dear, you know, Bob and Sally, I live in this neighborhood. I I always walk by your house. I love the character of the house. I see you've been there for a really long time. I'm looking to make purchases in your neighborhood. I'd love to come over and have a look at your house. Are you ever planning on moving? And if not, is there anything that I can help you do around your house? And that's the beginning thing. And then the second part comes at the bottom of the letter. You say, you know, what we really do, you know, whatever with your group or what we're looking to do is we're looking to, you know, buy homes where people have lived in them for a long long time and then become the next caretaker of the home. You know, we're not house flippers who are, like, gonna break everything and ruin all the character because that's always what they care about. It's like we we wanna maintain the integrity of the house and take what you did to the next level. That's really like a dialogue when you get in the house, you use the caretaker part more.

Jonathan Greene: [33:36] You say like, no. No. No. No. We're we're not, you know, we're not gonna demo your whole house because that that's personally how I do renovate. I wanna keep the character of the house. But if you've done enough old person options, like, they're always more worried while they're still alive that you're gonna ruin their house. They will not sell to you if they think you're gonna gut their house down to the studs. You're not gonna win. Yeah. They care about the house way more than your stupid fake money, and that's what I think again is another it's just a mindset shift. You know? Everything is a mindset around can you help someone? So the dialogue, that intro letter isn't perfect. I probably adjust it a little, but that's the general gist of how it works for the caretaker. When you meet them, that's when you start the caretaker. And we actually do that in on market acquisition part of when we're writing offers on just regular properties. That's part of our language is always we wanna take over as caretakers of your home. You've done a great job. It makes people feel good. You know? And it's true. Look. They've lived there for forty years. The one thing you have to remember about old people's homes is people are like, oh, you know, they haven't done any the maintenance on old people's homes is always immaculate.

Jonathan Greene: [34:42] Everything's in good shape. You know, furnace, AC, anything that they have is in great shape. They just have, like, giant carpet everywhere and bad furniture, and they've never done a cosmetic update. Kitchen's old. Know, you're probably gonna blow out like one wall, but that's where you're saving money is that they've done the upkeep because they take care of their house. It's just not cosmetically updated. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Austin: [35:04] The thing I love about that letter too and that copy that you just was the, is there anything I can do to help out around the house? And this goes back to my first off market deal. I own the house next door and it was an older lady in her eighties. And I wasn't even trying to buy her house, but I had mentioned, hey, if you need any help with anything, just let me know. Well, lo and behold, she needed help, and she wanted me to go to the store every time I was down there and buy her a pack of smokes, so I would get her a pack of Marlboro 100 Silvers, and that was her thing, and then she unfortunately passed away in her sleep, and the family that was there was like, mom wasn't supposed to be smoking, and I didn't say anything, I just kinda kept my mouth shut on that. Yeah. But, know, because that relationship was fostered, I was helping her out, the kids knew about me, and then eventually what they said was, just what you said, mom would have loved to have this home be, it's right across from university, but be for students. Mom always liked the university, she liked the students, so we wanna sell to you because you would keep, you know, kind of what mom would want. So it was a really fascinating learning opportunity for me, I think it's just in line, in exact alignment with this caretaker letter, like, it's not about the house or the money, it's about the character of the home and really being there to help them.

Mike DeHaan: [36:12] Yeah. No. That's great stuff. You know, it goes back to the root. Right? It's all about solving problems and providing service to people. Cool. So before we jump into the last minute question, just for context, I would love if you could give some insight on what exactly your business is now and what your investments are now. Because I'm sure you're not still going out walking for dollars with how long you've been you've been in the business.

Jonathan Greene: [36:32] Yeah. Well, the funny thing is I'm obsessed with houses because of my on market team. I mean, I'll show sometimes 20 houses in a week for on market. I look at, like, every dump on the market. I just like looking at houses. I work with hundreds of investors, so, like, there's opportunity for me to look. But, like, my investment portal's small now. During the pandemic, my sister and I sold a lot of the properties that we took from my dad because there was no like, the prices were high and we didn't really want them anymore. So we maintain both her and I have an LP stake in a 15 it's about 15 Bays, an industrial park in Bridgehampton, which probably, like, the best investment my dad ever made. He bought up when it was just like nothing, and we've held it for years and years. We almost had a hedge fund offer. I mean, it's a sizable asset. And then we have a couple single family rentals, which we always did single family rentals. That was my thing. I've never really dabbled much in multifamily myself personally. So we were always single family. We were doing short term rentals before Airbnb existed twenty years ago. Were doing short term rentals because I don't like hotels. So I I haven't stayed in a hotel in twenty years if it's more than like a day because I like having a kitchen and everything. So we really believed in short term rentals and I still do.

Jonathan Greene: [37:44] But like everybody seeing the market got oversaturated. And, you know, the problem with investing now, which has affected why I'm not buying right now, which we're talking about in the pre call is that non investors have gone, you know, ham on buying investment properties. Look at what happened in Arizona with all of these fake iBuyers who had money. They buy a 100 properties overvalue on purpose and then they're getting rid of them for, you know, way less. It's a disaster. So that's had a cyclical effect in all the markets. Like right now with the way that it went from the pandemic to the boom now, I'm in New Jersey. I mean, there's not a deal that even looks okay to me. But Mhmm. I mean, on my last flip, I only completed two months ago. We bought it for $5.55. We put it about $1.80, and it sold for $9.30. So we did great.

Mike DeHaan: [38:29] Nice.

Jonathan Greene: [38:29] But that's the the spectrum of what I do is it used to be the formula was more like you could do 300 buy in, 60 Renault, 60 profit. That was, like, generally easy. But when we hit the pandemic, like, that was no longer available. That 300 cost $3.75, and then there's no there's no spread. So to get the spread now, you have to go for me buying for flips. I'll buy in that 5 to $6.50 range, but they have to be homes that your regular first time buyer is not desperate enough to try and get has to have either, like, a structural issue. The last one we bought needed a new septic, which cost $42. So we know they're not gonna do it. It has to be something that's just like, it doesn't look right. And we also did a ranch, a mid century modern ranch, the last one, and we knew that no developers are gonna or builders are gonna, like, buy that and renovate it. They like cookie cutter. Like, anything that takes, like, figuring out how to make it cool, the metrics don't work for them. So now for me personally, I'm looking for more ranches and oddity houses that I think I can flip and get better deals on. But, you know, we were saying before the acquisitions now for me are like almost none. I look all the time, and now I'm just trying to, you know, go into New York a little bit to look for, I think, what will be longer term, short term rentals in areas where there aren't a lot.

Jonathan Greene: [39:46] But I like commercial mixed use a lot. I was under contract on one right in my town around the corner from me now, and it just fell apart at the end. But that's my target. 2022, I really was focused on Main Street mixed use. I think that's gonna be a huge asset just because commercial's taken such a big hit. And the reason why I like I call it main street mixed use is because main streets are just awesome. They have the potential to revitalize towns. So if you look in a lot of main streets, there's tons and tons with retail on the bottom, residential on the top. All the residential on the top are renting under market value and not renovated in most towns unless they've hit like this boom. So that's an area where you can actually have an impact. And I love mixed use for people who are entrepreneurial spirited. You know, maybe you wanna open your flipping business and you need an office. Great, you have a mixed use property. There's two retail spaces. You're not gonna lose money by using your own space. So I've owned commercial, we own a commercial five plex in Westchester for twenty five years, and then we sold it to one of the tenants. And that gave me the idea of like, you know what? I wanna open a like, I wanna open an independent bookstore with my kids, and that's what I wanted to do there. So when I do buy mixed use, I'm gonna put one side my, you know, bookstore and then the other side, probably my team or my flipping business, and then rent the units up top. I just think it's a great scale for investors to look at.

Jonathan Greene: [41:07] And one thing I always talk about a lot because I don't think a lot of people know is, you know, for new investors who are looking to house hack and are into multifamily, they have to remember that you can do an FHA house hack on a mixed use property if it's more than 50% residential. So if you have one retail space on the bottom and then you have two floors of residential, you can house hack that even though it's a commercial property. Most people don't know that. It's a great, great way of doing it. And remember that commercial properties are just gonna be sitting longer now. There's just a glut of commercial everywhere. Great.

Dan Austin: [41:41] Great tip there.

Mike DeHaan: [41:42] You just shop. There's so many tidbits in there. And you go rewind that list online again because there's you know mean? That's just the way that like, again, the way that you like look at stuff, it's so simple and it's so like, you know, I'm saying this to I was like, why don't we think about things like this? It just makes too much sense. Like, honestly. But you're right. So I learned to create those opportunities and recognizing, you know, what is going to be in demand in the future. You know, we talked to so many people that their idea of flipping houses is they're still gonna be buying these carpet paint flips. Like you talked about the 300 purchase, the 60 Reno, the 60 profit. That doesn't exist anymore. Like, honestly, like Just so that happens. It does, but it's very, very rare. And it's not common enough that you can build a business off of that. You just have to reset your expectations.

Jonathan Greene: [42:23] Yeah. It doesn't exist right now because single family home buyers got so desperate when the rates were better that they were buying all those even though they don't know how to do the rehab. There are real estate agents convincing regular first time home buyers that they can do a rehab, and then they're gonna end up spending two to three times more than they thought, And they're gonna be underwater soon because most real estate agents don't know anything about investing. They don't know how much it costs to do this rehab. Oh kitchen, yeah, that would be $7. Really? Looks like, you know, 40 to 5 me. You know, that's what's happening. Investors are now in competition with regular home buyers who are desperate because there's no properties on the market. So they're overpaying for stuff that I'm not, you know, I'll be like 50,000 below or sometimes a 100,000 below. So I'm not gonna make that I don't wanna waste anybody's time.

Mike DeHaan: [43:10] Yeah, million percent agree.

Dan Austin: [43:11] Mike and I were talking about that all last year, we saw agents, and I was selling some of our leads and you could see these new time home buyers, I'm like, this is not something you should be buying because like, you don't know, like the roof's not great, know, this is an investor listing, not a new first time home buyer with a baby all the way.

Jonathan Greene: [43:29] Wait, I'm gonna tell you one story because I know we gotta wrap up. But so I was in an absolute disaster in a great area, Glenridge, New Jersey. House was so cool, but not in any way for first time homebuyers. And I'm in there, and I'm listening, and it's an agent, and it's a husband and a very pregnant wife, like eight months. And I was on the 2nd Floor, and there were two floorboards loose, like, you could have gone through. So I went down and I said, listen. I just wanna tell you. Be careful upstairs of the room. You could fall through the floorboards. And what I was doing, I was trying to tell them that this house is not for you. Please leave. So I started I was with somebody, and we were I started talking louder on purpose because I was trying to help them. I don't know if those people bought that house, but a first time home buyer bought that house. That house, I bet someone was telling them cost 40 to 50,000 to renovate. I had an estimate at, like, $2.50.

Mike DeHaan: [44:27] Oh, wow.

Jonathan Greene: [44:28] It is a big problem. And, you know Yeah. You know, as an on market team, we work with so many investors because we know more, but it's very hard out there to look at what's happening. And agents, they just don't know. I mean, they can claim that they do, but 99% of agents don't really know anything about investing or rehab costs or multifamily or, you know, how the rent rolls affect or when to use cap rates. So, you know, you really have to factor that in as an investor. And again, that's what we're up against now. So why buy when we're up against people who are making bad decisions? I don't wanna make bad decision. Or if I do, I wanna make sure it was my bad decision to make.

Mike DeHaan: [45:03] Yeah. Right.

Jonathan Greene: [45:04] For sure.

Mike DeHaan: [45:04] Not not pushing somebody else into it. Awesome. Such such great advice there. Alright. We're gonna go into the end of the show here. I know you got a a hard stop here. Just a few minutes. We'll make these quick.

Jonathan Greene: [45:14] I'm ready.

Mike DeHaan: [45:15] We have the same three questions that we ask everyone who comes on the show. The first question is, what is your craziest real estate investing story?

Jonathan Greene: [45:24] Oh, I'll tell the quick version because it's my idiot story. Yeah. I bought the house that I my favorite house ever, and it was 2007.5. We were trying to move to New York at the time from Florida. This house was the best house ever. I mean, I built a lagoon pool, three car garage in the black, full of generator. Like, it was the best house I've I've ever had. So I I was convinced that it was worth a lot. I listed it for sale for 2,300,000. My my realtor was like I wasn't licensed at the time. My realtor was like, I don't you're not close. Like, this is way too high. I was like, I know what I'm doing. You know, the exact client that I hate right now as an agent. I listed it for 2.3. First week, we got an offer for 1.4. I probably never have said so many expletives in my life because I was so high on myself that it was worth 2.3. Well, guess right. I declined the offer, told them to screw off. 2,008 dropped right around the corner, ended up selling it, like, a year and a half later for, like, in the 800. So Oh, man. That's a that's just when you're gonna just gotta take it on the chin. Completely 100% my fault.

Mike DeHaan: [46:25] Yeah. Right. Wow. That's crazy. That's that's quite a shift. Man. Yeah, that's a it's alright. Who needs $600,000

Dan Austin: [46:33] Yeah, this is pennies,

Mike DeHaan: [46:35] Yeah. Cool. Alright. Second question, what is the number one piece of advice you would give to either a new investor looking to get started or to a small time investor looking to take their business to the next level?

Jonathan Greene: [46:46] Build as many relationships as possible. Don't buy things, build things. You know? Yeah. See who's not trying to sell you a course. Go to in person meetups where there's no lenders allowed, no pitches. Rias could get a little bit sketchy that if they're charging you like we run meetups and there's no pitches allowed. If anyone makes a pitch, I immediately throw them out, and we've been successful at those for over a year where it's a safe space for investors to meet each other, build relationships. You know, during the pandemic, we were all locked down and just we had an online Zoom group just for Philadelphia. Inside that group, we did 44 deals in that year just by having them be comfortable with each other. The number one way to get out of analysis paralysis is to go to in person meetups and see people just like you who are doing deals. You will stop crunching the numbers and get your ass out in the field.

Mike DeHaan: [47:33] Love it. Boom. Simple. Alright, Jonathan. And then last question. Where can people find you, follow you, and reach out to you if you'd like them to do so?

Jonathan Greene: [47:42] Yeah. I do a lot of social. You guys probably know.

Mike DeHaan: [47:45] You

Jonathan Greene: [47:45] do. On Instagram, I'm trust green, and that green has an e at the end, and that's the same on TikTok. My YouTube is Jonathan Greene r e. And then, of course, my podcast, which Mike was on, is Zen and the art of real estate investing. And just like I love being on your guys' podcast on collecting keys, I love the idea of podcasts in general. So I think it's important for people to just kind of adjust to getting knowledge that way, you know, driving in your car, walking on the treadmill. It's just a great way to just be able to put in knowledge where you maybe would just be listening to something stupid instead. You can get so much out

Mike DeHaan: [48:18] of it. Mhmm.

Jonathan Greene: [48:19] But, yeah, that's where I am. I was telling you before, I've migrated over to threads because I don't use Twitter, so I'm playing around there. But generally, Instagram's where you can find me. Usually respond to all realistic DMs that aren't asking me if they wanna make me a logo or if I need more leads, which I don't. Yeah. Or if you

Mike DeHaan: [48:36] wanna buy Bitcoin. Do you need some help with your short form content? You get a lot of those ones?

Jonathan Greene: [48:40] Yeah. I'm sorry. That's actually a good one. Anybody who's on YouTube, we get 15 a day. Hey. I can cut up your you know, okay. I know that AI can do that as well. So.

Mike DeHaan: [48:48] Exactly. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Jonathan, man. It was really great to reconnect with you again, and I really appreciate you coming on this show. So, guys, absolutely reach out to Jonathan. In case you can't tell, he is one of the most knowledgeable people that you will meet in this game. He has been around for a long time. He has seen it all, done it all. And the funny thing is is he has a lot of other awesome stories and experiences too that unfortunately couldn't come out in this quick hour. So we connected beforehand when I was on his show. He has all sorts of stuff that he is very, very knowledgeable on. So reach out with him and inquire, and he would be happy to chat with you. Besides that, guys, please share this with anybody who would find this show interesting or entertaining. Or even if they wouldn't, just like steal their phone and like download the episode. It boosts our numbers and helps us out. So you should definitely do that. And you can also go to collectingkeyspodcast.com/free. Get our free five step guide to start generating off market leads. And then maybe one day, you can be crushing it just like Jonathan is. So awesome. Well, thanks so much for listening, guys, and we'll talk to you all next week.

Jonathan Greene: [49:48] Thanks, guys.

Speaker 2: [49:49] Thanks for listening. Please leave us a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. And check us out at collectingkeyspodcast.com for tips and guides on starting your own real estate investment and wholesaling business.