From Army Ranger to Real Estate Millionaire with Tim Gurule

Tim Gurule: [0:00] As I watch the follow on element, Dan is a part of, just absolutely ensue freaking chaos in this field. Know, think about this, you're 18 years old, 19 years old, you've never been in combat, it's one of your first missions, and you're looking down through night vision as this element, this this special operations element is walking in a line across this field, and all hell breaks loose. Yeah. Machine gun fire engagements, really close, you know, contact, machine gun fire engagements, hand grenade exchanges. Welcome

Speaker 2: [0:32] to the collecting keys podcast. The show where you'll learn how to use real estate to create massive income, not just passive income. Real estate estate doesn't have to be a get rich slow game. Listen to the country's top real estate operators, and you'll have all the tools you need to replace your w two income and go beyond in under twelve months. Ready to take things to the next level? Let's jump in with our hosts, Mike DeHaan and Dan Austin for today's episode of the Collecting Keys Podcast.

Dan Austin: [1:09] Hey. What's going on, everyone? I have another great episode with my boy, Tim Gurule. Tim is an amazing guy. Him and I met back in the early two thousands when we were both army rangers. He tells an awesome story about an infamous night in 2006 where him and I were both in Iraq on a mission. But Tim has a fantastic story from where he goes in the military, through selecting for the FBI, to becoming a firefighter, real estate investor. He's got some awesome stories towards the end about a quadplex he bought that was, I guess you would say arsoned, or caught on fire, burned down. Anyhow, Tim has just a fantastic story of resiliency and adapting and overcome that I think a lot of you can relate to, I know I certainly did. So if you really, if you liked hearing what Tim has to say, go give him a follow, he gives out his social handles, he has a podcast as well, the Dynamis podcast that I would highly recommend you go listen to if you like anything you heard here today. So enjoy. Alright, Tim, what's up my man? It's been a while since you and I have chatted, but I was thinking about this, we've technically known each other since like, I don't know what, the early mid aughts with a break in between Yeah,

Tim Gurule: [2:14] like 2006 actually, I think is is, yeah, we would have met each other in 2006, and then took a big break in between.

Dan Austin: [2:22] Which was crazy, so we're in a group of, you know, in the military, it's a pretty small group, and then, you know, decade and a half later or whatever, we are in another very small group as two guys from a very small group, so it's like the odds were like one in a million of us getting paired up in a group together, know, a group before a GoPod and GoBunnens, which was nuts, wish the GoPod fell apart, but we're still friends. So anyhow, so the people in our audience that don't know you, give us a little bit about your background.

Tim Gurule: [2:51] Yeah man, my name is Tim Gurule, I grew up in Colorado, grew up the all American kid, I you know, every day, I was always on a job site, Hollywood, football, wrestling, all that. Grew up with just a deep deep love for America, just one of those kids that was just bought in. Nine eleven happened, changed my life, I think we all remember that day, everything I thought I was going to do, you know, I always thought I was gonna go to military academy, or at least try, I didn't have the grades, know, I was gonna go ROTC or something like that. Nine eleven happened, and that day obviously changed my life. I dropped everything I was doing, any aspiration of college, and all I could think about was, I gotta enlist, I gotta I gotta go right now, I'm gonna miss the war, this is my opportunity. This is my opportunity to to give back to my country, know, and I just remember nineeleven, watching those towers fall, watching the news clips of people jumping out of this burning building and thinking, nope, I'm not gonna let that stand and it's my obligation to do something about it. So, graduated high school, left for the army, went to basic training, airborne, got the opportunity to go to selection, it's called Ranger Assessment and Selection, nowadays got selected by the grace of God. And after selection, and that's a whole other story, know, I'm sure your listeners know that you used to be a ranger, but after selection, we were, you know, lined up and they had a couple spots to go to Fort Benning 375, they had like one spot to go to 175, and like three spots for two seven five. And they said, hey, whoever wants to go here, line up. Whoever wants to go here, line up.

Tim Gurule: [4:27] And everybody lined up for 275, everybody.

Dan Austin: [4:30] Of

Tim Gurule: [4:30] course. And they're like, well, guess what? And two seven five's in Fort Lewis, Washington outside Seattle, second Ranger battalion, seventy fifth Ranger regiment. And they said, hey, whoever, there's three spots, so if you want it, fight for it. I mean, is just kinda like the background we came from, right? It's just like

Dan Austin: [4:45] Yeah, this is how you do it, dude.

Tim Gurule: [4:46] Yeah, extreme violence. And chaos ensued, it was like a full on brawl, people getting choked out, people were bleeding out of the face and mouth, and at the end of it, there was three people standing, and I was one of those three, and I got on an airplane that night, showed up in Fort Lewis, spent five years up here in Fort Lewis, ended up deploying four times. One of those was with you, my first deployment, you and I deployed together, and I got shoulder tapped by an FBI agent at a during a training cycle, I went to a shooting course in Mississippi. They said, hey, what are you doing with your life? And I was like, man, I'm living the best job in the world, you know? I'm hanging out of helicopters, I'm working out, you know, what gets better than this? And they said, hey, I want you to look around, I want you to consider your future, like, all your peers are shot up, blown up, divorced four times, you should consider coming to work for us, make more money. So I left and I went to college, I went through the FBI tactical recruiting program, applied for a job, got a job, ended up, the government sequestered right when I got out of college, and I didn't know what to do, I had no idea what I was gonna So I started working in a, you know, lumber mill, went right back to what I knew, construction, manual labor. Started working at lumber mill, started working landscape construction, and during that time I was like, man, I got on the wrong bus. I used to be in a special operations unit, I have a college degree, and now I'm working with a bunch of meth heads who are smoking meth on their lunch break, you know, making $5 an hour, and I thought I gotta do something different in the interim.

Tim Gurule: [6:11] I saw a posting for a fire department, I tested, got the job immediately, which is pretty awesome because a lot of people test, you know, three, four, five, seven years to get that job. A year later got off probation, FBI called and said, hey man, you ready to come to work? And I was like looking at my schedule, looking at my time off, I was making more money.

Dan Austin: [6:29] Yeah.

Tim Gurule: [6:29] And I said, you know what, I'm gonna stay at the fire department and it was during that time that I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and that book blew my brain wide open and I started investing in real estate. We can kinda take it where you wanna take it, I can elaborate

Dan Austin: [6:43] Oh man.

Tim Gurule: [6:43] However you want me to elaborate, but

Dan Austin: [6:45] that's I forgot the that you had told me that you did the whole FBI thing, that is just a mind blowing situation, you did this whole transition, did all this stuff and for it to just turn into nothing, like a big fat nothing, honestly.

Tim Gurule: [6:56] Yeah, man. And that was a crazy experience, know, the FBI, it's a a pretty ridiculously thorough organization. So, you know, from the time I started the application process to got a conditional job offer was an eighteen month time period. And they were out of state panel interviews and just the most in-depth polygraphs you could imagine. Like, I went through a, you know, I think I sat in a three hour polygraph Wow. One time. Random drug samples, they would call me on a whim, I'd be in college, right? And they'd call me and say, this is my senior year, and they'd say, hey, we need you down here by 3PM today. Okay? No, you know, explanation of what I was doing, I'd get in the car, drive an hour to the field office in Denver, at the time I was going to college at Colorado State, and I'd show up and they'd be like, alright, head into this room, they'd pull hair sample, and then I'd go do another polygraph, like another hour and a half polygraph, it was pretty wild, and there's a bunch of dates essentially to get to the next level, but at the end of it, it was a good experience, learned a lot, ultimately, you just kind of have to choose a direction and keep your head down and keep grinding full on in that in that space, knowing that something something's gonna be unlocked, something's gonna revealed.

Tim Gurule: [8:05] Know, I can look back and second guess that decision of not joining the FBI all day long, but ultimately, you have to have faith in your decision making ability, and once you make that decision just to double down and keep executing and know that there's a long time horizon to unlock that fruit. Well, let's

Dan Austin: [8:21] be honest, like if you're working for the government, there is one thing that's an easy, like hard pass for me, which is they don't pay you very much. You're limited on that and there's good service, you and I both have served the country, all that sort of stuff, and so there's that is valuable, there's money, no monetary value of service, but at the same time, money is nice to buy freedom and not have to do drug tests randomly all the time. Anyhow, let's dig back into the, I wanna go back into the military stuff because obviously, it's fun for us to reconnect and chat about that stuff, but also I want to Yeah. I feel like that's part of the genesis of your springboard as it was for me into everything you did. So, what is one major defining point in your career that you're just like, you know, you get these ah 's, I've got tons of them, I'm not going to put a description around it for you, but like, would just love to hear like, what are those moments, whether that was in combat or training or friendship that you created or what? I'll let you run with it.

Tim Gurule: [9:19] Yeah, so I think, so just for everybody listening, you know, Dan and I, we are a part of a very elite organization called the Second Ranger Battalion. Not only that, we were in the same company in the same platoon. And just as a little fun fact story, you know, my first deployment, Dan and I were in the same platoon, we deployed together to Baghdad. And one of my first memories as a brand new guy in my first deployment is being on a rooftop, and this is like a total side story here. But I was on a rooftop guarding what we call a parrot patch. So we hit this one objective, we flowed through room to room, cleared it, they sent me up to the rooftop as the new guy, Pulse security in this field, was over watching a palm grove. And what was gonna happen is, is we're gonna have the other part of our element, Dan happened to be a part of, clear this palm grove field. So I remember being a brand new guy, first deployment, one of my first missions, I'm on a rooftop with a parrot patch that I'm guarding, and and for everybody listening, parrot patch is essentially just like a bunch of women and children that we've cleared, we put them aside, we let them stay together, and I'm providing Overwatch, like security. And so I'm looking through night vision down in this field as I watch the follow on element, which Dan is a part of, just absolutely ensue freaking chaos in this field. You know, think about this, you're you're 18 years old, 19 years old, you've never been in combat, it's one of your first missions, and you're looking down through night vision as this element, this this special operations element is walking in a line across this field and all hell breaks loose.

Speaker 2: [10:45] Mhmm.

Tim Gurule: [10:46] Machine gun fire engagements, really close, you know, contact, machine gun fire engagements, hand grenade exchanges. You know, I just remember being, watching this execution on this rooftop, like looking at the absolute, almost machine timing and precision of this element, right? Like chaos is breaking loose and I'm watching my peers execute perfectly. Every single one of them knows that the other person knows their job, that they can rely on them, depend on them. And in this chaos, there's order. And all of them are well orchestrated and organized. And the reason is, is because all of them have complete trust, all of them are completely bought in, they understand that everybody is bought into the mission, is there for something more than themselves, bigger than themselves, right? And that opened my eyes up to what is possible. What is possible when you sacrifice to become a part of that organization? And I'll tell you why. When you get to an organization like Ranger Regiment, it's nasty. It's it's honestly terrible. To get there, like the selection process, being a new guy is worse than the selection process. Selection sucks, then you get there and you're a new guy Terrible. Dude, it's freaking miserable.

Tim Gurule: [11:59] Like, you're living in the barracks, you're a slave, you're shit on every day, you're the guy carrying all the heavy crap, you're doing all the crap details, you're working the latest, you're up the earliest, you're getting smoked all day long, you're doing push ups, you're getting yelled at. If you don't know your job, like something that you would have no reason to know, right, because you just have no experience, you're just getting lit up. But at the other side of that, at the other side of that brother, of that like, you know, initiation, is the fruit of being a part of one of the greatest organizations, the greatest fraternity that you'll ever gonna be in in your life. And what makes it so great is that everybody sacrificed to be there, and therefore everybody wants to be there. And when everybody wants to be there, they're committed at being the best every single day. And something that I really learned, like the takeaway from that time in my life was, what is possible when everybody is expected to be perfect every single day? And there's healthy factors of that and very unhealthy factors. There's a lot of unlearning I've had to do from Ranger and personal expectations on myself.

Dan Austin: [13:02] Yep.

Tim Gurule: [13:02] But you know, leaving that organization at 18, you know, when you're young, 18 to let's say 25, your frontal cortex, okay, is not fully formed. Some of the most formidable years of your life are forged in combat, and in extreme violence, and in this expectation that you are expected to show up and be perfect every single day. And when you leave that organization, that is like your expectation in life. So when you go to college, when you start a business, when you become an employee, it becomes both a help and a hindrance in life. Right? Like, there's part of you that it it's what drives you, makes you so successful, but there's another part that just makes you absolutely unrelatable to anybody else in your circle. You're like this weird guy that nobody wants to be around. You're neurotic, you're anal, it makes it difficult to like forge relationships, and it leads to a lot of frustration because it feels like you can't fully rely on people like you could during your time in that organization. And I would say the biggest takeaway, something that I've always strived to look for since leaving that unit, was being a part of a high caliber team that is elite and that functions at the highest possible level. When you're on a winning team, a winning team at the upper echelon, the highest level you can be a part of, there is something that is insanely addictive about that.

Tim Gurule: [14:25] Being on a winning team is incredible. It takes a lot of sacrifice. That's something that people don't understand is there's a lot of pain and suffering and sacrifice. And I would say, you know, if there's one thing I really learned how to do well in Ranger regiment, it's suffer, and it's suffer well, and it's suffer for a long period of time knowing that there's a payoff. You know, if you don't suffer, you don't get to be a part of that organization, you don't get to reap the benefits and the rewards of the success and the victories, you gotta pay for that up front. Yep. So, yeah, I would say that's some of my biggest takeaways for sure.

Dan Austin: [14:57] Great explanation by the way, and that night was a fun night for everybody because I think we even had like little birds coming in, and we had mortars dropping, we had everything, that was the night that my gun jammed as a dude with an AK-forty seven was shooting at one of our guys, and all I had was a magazine to throw at his face until I could get my gun cleared and up and running. Great night. But what you're saying resonates heavily, and especially the part of like learning how to like supper, to me the way I've articulated that is just like, I'm willing to do things at almost all cost, and like get shit done. If I say I'm going to do something, I do it. One of the reasons, you know, Mike quotes my partner, why he wanted to partner with me is because he's like, you're the only dude that I knew, at the time anyways, that's willing to get this shit done at all costs. Like when our backs are against the wall, I'm going to be there and not going to go home, not gonna give up. And that is something that you learn through the military, and speaking also to the expectations of working with people that are operating at a high level. I joke about this with Mike recently, it's like when we have people on our team or people in our circle, and I see like a little fission, a little fracture in their character, in their ability, or their work ethic, I just fricking blow it open. I will rip it open and I will just leave some wrath there. I haven't quite unlearned that, right?

Dan Austin: [16:19] I love working around people that are awesome, that are committed to the mission. If you're not committed to the mission, I don't want you on the team, you know? And so, that is something I think you articulated really well, and I haven't understood that until you just said that of why and what I'm doing in my business and in my life in general.

Tim Gurule: [16:38] Well, there's also what you said is, it seems like, you know, when there's no other option, when our backs are up against the wall, we perform really well. The reason for that is because when we were being formed, when our brains were being formed, there was no other option, When you're in a life and death scenario, and and I'm not trying to be overly dramatic here, but there is no option b. It's either kill or be killed. It's either do this thing that you don't want to do or be left behind. Like, you have no other option. And so when there's shit work that has to be done, everybody has this understanding of you can bitch and moan about it, but at the end of the day, we all have to get it done, and that's it. And so you just stop bitching and moaning about it, and you jump to get it done. And we seem to like attack those problems. And I've noticed, I don't know how you are, but for me, when my back is up against the wall, when I am under more pressure, I seem to perform Oh, a 100%. Better. And that is not super healthy. 100%. You know, that's something that I've like been getting coaching to perform at that level without all that pressure and not putting that pressure on myself. But I'm just telling you, in any job I've had, any situation, the more pressure it seems like the more clear and articulate my processes and thoughts become.

Dan Austin: [17:51] Yep, I agree. And there's a funny thing almost to where you create a little bit of chaos to make it so you can perform better subconsciously, you know? And I was thinking about this the other day, actually just, I can't remember who I was talking to about it, but when I first got out, and I'll test this on you, when I first got out, was transitioning out of the military back into like the W2 workforce, where things were super easy. Like one of the things that would pop in my head was like, oh, I mean, nobody died, think we're okay, right? Like when people, I would be a little bit apathetic towards things that were just like a big deal to other people, and I was like, dude, we're all, like nobody's dying out there, Nobody's shooting at us, like chill out, like I would just, but people would be so surprised, like this is a huge deal, and I'm kinda like that still to this day where I'm like, no it's not, there's way bigger problems in this world to solve, there's way bigger issues, it's just maybe a different perspective that I have on life I guess.

Tim Gurule: [18:45] Yeah, and I I would share that, and I I think that makes that almost difficult to relate to other individuals at times, you know? They're like frustrated at at the reaction. After the military, I became a professional firefighter for seven years, you know? And to be quite honest with you, as much death as we saw in combat, I probably saw an exponentially more amount, like a larger amount of death as a firefighter. And, you know, the frameworks that your brain starts to shuffle quickly into to make decisions, like you make you start having these decision making models. When you have a reaction that other people cannot relate to in those types of of models, it makes it frustrating on the communication level between those team members who can't empathize with how you're just quickly sifting things into what's really important, what's not important. Okay. Let's move forward. Here's here's what needs to get solved. Let's go attack that thing. Yeah, it makes it extremely difficult sometimes to communicate with other team members in

Dan Austin: [19:41] that aspect. And I will say, I mean, I love to make fun of firefighters, I love to talk a little bit of dirt on firefighters, but we have mutual friend Drake down in Austin, he's a firefighter there, and I got a lot of respect for guys that have done that job just because of the fact where you said it's like intense, like there's a lot going on and it's in the context where it's not supposed to happen, for most people, right? For firefighters, you're probably used to it, but like for me, I don't expect to see that sort of stuff day to day, so it's some pretty intense stuff, so I can totally understand what you're saying, you're having to compartmentalize essentially this stuff. Yeah, So, let's talk about that though, so that's kinda where, honestly, today, Tim, it really springboards from, is the time of the firefighters, so maybe you could talk a little bit about you getting into real estate, you know, you're a firefighter, the transition that happened there, I'd love to love to share that with the audience.

Tim Gurule: [20:28] Yeah, here's a really good way to frame Ranger Battalion. Ranger Battalion is like the Lost Boys, okay? You watch Peter Pan, all the Lost Boys that don't have a home, don't have anywhere to go to. Some of the most insanely intelligent humans I've ever met in my life, the most proficient, intelligent humans I met in Ranger Battalion. Like I could not even you couldn't even believe sometimes the scope and capability of individuals who wander in there, as an enlisted guy, who just wanna go kick doors and fight bad guys, okay? It attracts a very particular type of person. Ranger regiment was the Lost Boys, and and most people that came into the regiment had somewhat of a rough home life, maybe came from poverty, they were the kids that were kinda kicked out of school, always in fights. It's an eclectic group of individuals. And so when I went to the army, there was no backup plan for me. When I left home, I came from a good home, but my dad was not a moneymaker. And my childhood was spent living in a car. We lived in cars, we lived in storage units. When I showed up, you know, I didn't wanna tell that story in Ranger regiment, that's embarrassing. But you get into Ranger regiment and you realize, oh shit, like everybody kinda came from this background. It's super scrappy.

Tim Gurule: [21:44] And that's kinda what makes it so dangerous is like you're just with a bunch of super scrappy dudes who have nothing to lose, you know? So I guess leaving Ranger Regiment, I had no safeguards. So when I bet on the FBI, I was all in. And I think that's another common trait of individuals from that unit is typically we double down and we're all in because there's no other backup plan, you know? Plan b is plan a harder for for a while, you know? And so when the FBI didn't work out, I went into super scarcity mode. When it wasn't working out, like I was waiting, was like, why is it taking so long, I'm not getting hired, I went into I freaked out. Scarcity mode, how am I gonna pay my bills? I didn't have the option to go move back home with mom and dad, like that didn't exist for me. So in my mind, I was thinking about I left this great job, I have no more security and stability, and so for the fire department, when I got that job, I latched on and doubled down and went all in. And I was driving around in my car, okay, one day, and this guy gave me this book Rich Dad Poor Dad, and I had never heard of this book, I read the book and my mind blew wide open. Obviously, everybody has this same experience. I've heard it on your podcast a number of times, everybody mentions Rich Dad Poor Dad. Here's the thing about that book, it doesn't tell you jack shit about shit. But what it does do is it reshapes the framework of how you problem solve.

Tim Gurule: [23:06] It shows you that you can look at problems through a different perspective and make them into solutions, okay? And so I had no idea what I was doing. I had barely any money, no money at all. I had just bought a house, my entire paycheck as a firefighter was going towards paying my house, and so I started house hacking. Before I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, I like figured that out on accident, I started house hacking, I was renting rooms out, so I could save a little bit of money. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, and I was like, I don't know what I have to do, but I have to double down on this. Go all in, right? And so that led to the next book, and the next book, I think it was like How to Retire Early on Real Estate, Long Distance Real Estate Investing, the Burr book, the classics, right? This Rich Dad Poor Dad course came to town. I had, you know, I saw it, came to town, I think I had like $1,500 in my savings account. I mean, I'm telling you, like I was scraping by. The course was a two day course, it cost $700 and bro, I was panicked to pay for this two day course. I spent half my savings, I decided I'm gonna do it, showed up at this course, and it was the biggest bunch of bull crap I have ever consumed in my life. It was such horse crap, I was I was like furious that I had been duped to go pay for this like rich dad legacy education. It was like just garbage, okay?

Tim Gurule: [24:23] But they had software in there that showed like how to source properties, you know, off market, how to underwrite and estimate, and I was trying to get access to the software. They wouldn't sell me the access to the software individually without signing on for their course. And so I started googling, how do you get the software for, you know, legacy Rich Dad Poor Dad, and bigger pockets popped up, okay? So now I'm like doubling down, I'm all in on podcasts, I'm listening to hundreds of hours of podcasts. This is probably 2014, 15, and I I've read all these books, I'm listening to these podcasts and I decide I don't have enough money to invest in the market I live in, so I'm gonna start researching markets in the Midwest. I found St. Louis, got on an airplane, I flew out with a book, I literally had a book. And I was interviewing agents. I'd go brokerage to brokerage and interview agents, was making short lists. I'm reading the book, do you invest in real estate? Are you a full time agent? You know, how long have you been in real estate? And if they would tell me no, I'd say, you know, I'd open up the book to page like 27, I don't know. I'd be like, oh, I'm sorry, we cannot work together. And I'd go to the next brokerage, right?

Tim Gurule: [25:29] So I made a team, I found a mortgage guy, I found an agent, and I flew back home. And I had them start looking at properties for me, had never bought a rental property, they're sending me rental properties via like an app, they were sending me videos. I called up one of my friends, you know, I was initially gonna buy a duplex, I couldn't find a duplex that was worth anything that I wanted to buy, I found a four plex, didn't have enough money, called one of my friends, we had invested in a hemp farm, and he was the hemp farmer, he was from Ranger Regiment, the government changed some regulation, we had a $100,000 sunk into that. At this time, I had gotten married at this time, the business was going down, and he had 20 ks to throw in with me, I had 20 ks, and we bought a fourplex sight unseen. And I know you got three questions in this episode at the end, I'm gonna save one of my stories for that fourplex, but essentially, I bought my first fourplex and it was my lab. I started, you know, learning how to manage property managers, learning how to renovate rehab units, and that led to another off market purchase that I sourced through the fire department, and then that led to another off market purchase that led to a 20,000 square foot Airbnb property that I partnered with three other people on, that led to me building a network and buying a commercial property in Tacoma, and I mean the stories just kind of continued from there, I've been buying one to two properties a year, I initially started using my VA benefits or my, you know, my VA home loan initially, and I would live in it, house hack it, move, buy another one, rent it out and then you know, I started saving up enough to put my own money down, and now I'm in this unique position, so seven years into the fire department, fortunately I had some passive income streams built up and COVID happened. And my whole life has been in public service, right? Like there's a very, there's core tenet in my values that I'm driven by. And I went into work one day, I worked two years through COVID, had already gotten COVID, all my peers had gotten COVID, when everybody was home, I was out in the front lines fighting COVID, walked into work one day and they said, hey, you're all getting vaccinated, there's no if, ands or buts about it, you're getting vaccinated.

Tim Gurule: [27:37] I walked into work, I didn't really care that much at the time, but you know, you and I, we've gotten a lot of vaccines from the army. We got anthrax, we got malaria, yellow fever, I mean, we got smallpox scars.

Dan Austin: [27:50] Yeah, yeah, okay.

Tim Gurule: [27:52] We got all kinds of crazy stuff. And I remember when I was in Afghanistan, I was allergic to which is the malaria medicine.

Dan Austin: [27:57] Mhmm.

Tim Gurule: [27:58] And so I couldn't take it, so they started giving me me mefloquine. Well, I got a letter in the mail from the VA years later that says, hey

Dan Austin: [28:04] You're fucked up.

Tim Gurule: [28:05] Our bad, we gave you mefloquine, you should keep an eye on this this stuff because we think that you could possibly have permanent and irreversible neurological brain damage. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. Thank you, government.

Dan Austin: [28:18] Good to know.

Tim Gurule: [28:18] Yeah. Good to know. And so when COVID happened and they were talking about, you know, operation warp speed with the vaccine, I was like, you know what? I've seen this play out, like, I'm gonna chill on the sidelines for a while. I'm gonna see how this plays out with the general public. I don't need to rush to get it. I've already had COVID. I walk into work one day and there's two girls crying on the coffee table because they wanna have families. There's no long term data about what it's gonna do, if they have babies, can they get pregnant, can they not? Got it. They didn't know what to do, they felt like they had no options, and that day I walked into work, I made up my mind, like there's no way, like my entire life work has been in public service, in defense of freedom and autonomy, and I quit. I wrote it all the way down, I tried to fight it, I tried to keep our jobs, ultimately they wouldn't budge, I put my money where my mouth was and I And fortunately I had some passive income streams, but when I walked, you know, I was in the world of entrepreneurship, and all the only option I had was forward, right? Like when you're in the thick of it, the best what's the best medicine on the battlefield? It's fire superiority. And so I doubled down, and I got my gun up, and I walked towards the enemy, and then I started building, and that's the process I'm in right now.

Dan Austin: [29:26] That's nuts. I wanna get into that, what you're doing now, but I wanna touch on like, what would you describe yourself? You're saying you're buying one of the new properties, you've got like a commercial property, are you just like an opportunistic, are you looking specifically for certain things? Mean, a 20,000 square foot Airbnb, like what's up with that?

Tim Gurule: [29:42] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question. Historically, as a firefighter, you have a lot of time. A lot of time and, you know, you make a healthy 6 figure income. So my entire all my purchases were extremely opportunistic. Like, oh, that sounds kinda cool. This one's in Idaho and this one's in Washington and this these two are in Colorado. No rhyme or reason. I would underwrite the deal, if I thought I could make money on it, I would buy it. That was really good. I got experience in different areas. We you have an Airbnb, a midterm, I have two commercial properties, a handful of long term rentals. So I've got experience in different areas. It's extremely detrimental on the other side now where this is the only thing I have, and I'm trying to niche down and really make some money. Yeah. So there's good and bad. And what I'm in the process of doing right now is really trying to focus, niche down, and identify the key market I'm after and go all in. I'm trying to eliminate everything and get super super focused on that one thing right now.

Dan Austin: [30:43] I think that's the way you gotta do it. That's kinda what me and Mike are doing as well within our business, is we're really laser focused. Not that it's, not that we don't look at other opportunities so often as they roll in, but we're really, blinders are on man, right, just focusing on one thing, and I think for that, like it feels like it takes for long, like a super long time, right, to get anywhere. But then when you look back, like holy shit, like we were just talking about like where we started out this last year, and we were focusing on like systematizing our business, and focusing how to like put framework around it so we could scale it, and it was like this just repetitive thing, felt like we were hitting fucking roadblocks the whole time, and we're looking back, we're like, holy shit, we're eleven months into the year, look at where we've come, look at our, everything's different, it's just so crazy.

Tim Gurule: [31:28] Yeah, that focusing on the gain instead of the gap is huge, huge in your growth, because it's hard when you feel like you're spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere.

Dan Austin: [31:36] Mhmm, mhmm, absolutely. Okay, so let's chat, okay, we're at the end of the time in the fire department, and let's talk about what you're doing now, because I think that's also an incredible just like story of how you dove into that and now you're scaling scaling your business now.

Tim Gurule: [31:50] Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so I did a couple things right off the bat. Cody Sanchez, everybody knows Cody Sanchez. Mhmm. I knew Cody Sanchez from years ago because when we invested in hemp, technically it fell under cannabis, and you couldn't put your money in the bank back then. Mhmm. Cody Sanchez, she's the business acquisition lady now, she didn't start that way. You know, she came from, I think Goldman, then she did private equity, and she started working with cannabis investors. So when I found Cody Sanchez, my friend had sent her to me because we had money that we couldn't put in the bank, okay? Her content turned into, you know, real estate, turned into business acquisition, and so she hosted a conference, And we flew out to that conference. And when I flew out to that conference, there was a bunch of big names there. They weren't super big names at the time, but they were well known. So Rob Bilt, the co host of Bigger Pockets was one of the keynotes. This guy named Mr. Forta eight, Mikey Taylor, he's a storage investor. All these guys were giving these keynotes, Cody Sanchez, Aaron Amuchastecchi, and the one takeaway that I had was, hey, whatever you're doing, document the journey. If you can leave here with one piece of advice, start doing social media, start documenting the journey because you're gonna eventually, it's a bucket that you're gonna continuously deposit into and it's gonna grow and compound and grow and grow and snowball. And one day you're gonna dump that bucket out, there's gonna be millions of dollars to go action whatever you wanna action. So I flew home, had no idea what I was doing, literally zero clue, started doing social media, started a podcast. The podcast is called the Dynamis Podcast and the purpose of that podcast is to become so autonomous, so financially free that you are literally ungovernable, that nobody can tell you what to do, how to do it, when to do it.

Tim Gurule: [33:27] And I'm using that podcast to document the journey as a breadcrumb trail for all my homies who got left behind, who had no option but had to submit to get on their knees and say yes because they had no other options for themselves. And I'm using that platform to give people options so that they're autonomous and they're not forced to bend the knee. Should never ever have to bend the knee especially to money. You should stand upright, high, shoulders back for what you believe in. So, started the podcast, I started an investor meetup, you know, everything that everybody tells you to do, go start a meetup, know, get on social media. I started documenting my journey on social media, and I jumped into mortgage origination. I understood it, It was sales. It was gonna teach me how to build a business, how to get conversions, how to build funnels. So I started into mortgage origination, and that taught me a ton. Taught me how what banks were looking at, lending standards. During this whole time, we're continuing to buy real estate, and the more I got into GoBundance, the more people I started meeting in GoBundance, the more they were telling me like, hey, man, how do you want your life to look? And I had never thought about it, like, do you mean? Like, I can just pick how I how I want my life to look, like how to design my life? And I met this syndicator named Ashton LeVaric.

Dan Austin: [34:38] Oh, air force

Tim Gurule: [34:39] guy. Yeah, Ashton's a badass. So he was in a tier one element for the air force, he was a PJ, and we met at a mastermind. He had me on his podcast and he started telling me about syndications and how he's raising capital, like a fund to fund, partnering with operators, and he's getting a split on all these deals. And I was like, I could not believe what he was telling me. And so I started looking into capital raising. And I really started tailoring the social media and the podcast as information to build a following to show people what I was doing. I wanted to build credibility by just documenting the fails, the wins, the returns I was getting. And so I thought I was gonna end up raising capital for syndication. And who knows, maybe one day that's when it'll morph into. But what I accidentally fell into is private capital lending. So I'm a mortgage lender, and I had a couple situations where people who are investors needed specific types of funding that they couldn't get from the bank, okay? They couldn't get maybe gap funding, they wanted to cross collateralize on assets that they owned. And so I looked at this model of syndication and private capital raising, and I thought, you know what? I think that I can apply my knowledge in the mortgage industry, combine it with the syndication model, go raise private capital and place some some loans for investors.

Tim Gurule: [35:54] Now, you know, there's a process to doing that. We have to look at what are you gonna put up for collateral? How long do you want the loan? Like, is this a safe deal? Because ultimately, we have private investors that are placing money with us expecting a return, ten, twelve, 15% return, and rule number one is don't lose money. They don't care about how risky it is or how much money they're gonna make, they wanna make sure they're getting that money back. If they wanted more risk, they'd probably go invest in a syndication. They want their return and they want their money back. So I have really started to focus on building that private lending out, and just, you know, I've been on that journey of growing that and getting punched in the face because when you start something new, there's always gonna be a downside that you could never foresee until you jump into that. So I still do my residential mortgage origination, and yeah, I'm really on the journey of raising private capital for some private lending, which goes hand in hand with the community that we're in, because a lot of them are investors that need creative financing that doesn't fit, you know, bank standards, so.

Dan Austin: [36:54] I love that. So what I'm hearing is you you're finding through your, probably a lot of it through your mortgage business, but also just through your network, is there's this need. And there's all these people that need money, obviously in a unique time in the market where people need some kind of funky lending that banks are now pulling back from. And so you're taking that and you're pairing it up with people that have money, are sitting on the sidelines, but have nothing to do with it because they know the people, right? And they want to trust you to place that capital, and so I'm assuming a really good job, an incredible amount of time spent underwriting the deals and the people, like how does that look, like what are you doing to protect your investors money?

Tim Gurule: [37:30] Yeah, so every time we get a deal, if somebody calls and says, hey, I need capital for this type of project, I'm gonna underwrite this thing with the same standards as a bank would underwrite it. I'm gonna put together a package, want their IDs, I want their personal guarantee, I wanna know what real estate they're gonna collateralize on. I'm doing preliminary title reports, I'm requesting insurance documents, I wanna see mortgage statements, I wanna make sure that what they're saying is true, and I'm gonna verify it's true, trust, So I'm gonna underwrite it just like the bank, you know, I wanna make sure that they have income that if they default, we can pay back this loan. We're placing really conservative loans right now, so if there is a default, there's enough loan to value in there that we can kick the can down the road. Yep. So we can either put it on the market and sell, recoup all that cash plus the interest, we can refinance and put a renter in there and recoup our investors investment, or ultimately, and we, you know, I don't wanna do this, but if I have to kick the can down the road to a hard money lender that's gonna offer 85% LTV, rule number one is don't lose money. So we're going slow, super conservative, but we're gonna underwrite it with the same guidelines that I would underwrite it for a residential mortgage, okay, and I'm gonna look at it through the eyes of an investor, and that's kinda something that is unique is, you know, I am an investor, so I can look at these properties, I can work with flippers, rehabbers, wholesalers, and kind of look at what their exit strategy is, underwrite the deal myself, and see if I'm getting what they're getting, and then take it to investors and lay out this packet in front of them and ask them, hey, is this something that you wanna participate in? And if you look ahead, at least the next five years, you know, I personally think that the biggest runway, the most conservative return you're gonna get on your cash is being the bank.

Tim Gurule: [39:15] Mean, it's dicey out there in the multi family world right now. We're in a shifting volatile market, and if, you know, if I'm placing bets on where's the safest place to be, for me, it's the bank. And then we're gonna take all those excess returns and we're gonna go buy our own supply, and we're gonna buy assets that continue to cash flow and pay the bills and offset our taxes.

Dan Austin: [39:34] Yeah, and that's the thing, the benefit of being the bank is that you underwrite these deals such that you should have profitability on all ends of it. So, they fail to perform and you have to take over the property, you should still be able to perform at some level, right? Yeah. And you're getting it such that it's at a discount because you're making them bring money to the table, or that you can see that there's just so much equity in this thing that it's a great deal for you to loan on. That's amazing, I agree with you. Some of the best passive income is lending money, I love lending to people, just because it puts you in a great position to not have to do any work. As long as you know your numbers, you're pretty protected. Which brings me to a question I have too, is from your investor standpoint, like how do you set that up for them, are they getting like just a fixed preferred return, or do you guys do like a profit share, how does that look?

Tim Gurule: [40:19] So, typically, this is really in the incipient sea. So we've done a few deals, it's starting to kind of snowball. So far to date, I've put my own personal money into every deal. So I'm putting my own money in, which I think one proves good faith, like I'm in it with them. So in that sense, the investors that contribute capital, they're gonna earn simple interest, and usually there's a minimum interest return. So let's say that the investor needs a six month loan, for example, you know, we're gonna protect both the investor and the borrower. I don't wanna foreclose, we don't wanna do that. We want everybody to be successful. We're typically not gonna place money where we think, you know what, this probably isn't gonna work out, because it's a pain in the ass for me to foreclose, right? And it looks bad.

Dan Austin: [41:01] Yep, I wanna do it.

Tim Gurule: [41:02] So typically investors will will let's say we need a six month loan, I'll write a nine month contract, okay? So we'll say we're gonna write a nine month term, we'll do a six month, you know, interest period and we'll say three months of that is mandatory. Meaning, if you only need the money, you know, for two months, hey, you still gotta pay three months of interest because my investors, they're carrying some risk here, they wanna at least be incentivized. We'll pay simple interest and the investors are gonna make simple interest. And then as far as like the overhead for just the underwriting, like getting the legal docs drawn up and the processing and the servicing setup, we'll charge you know, points up front, could be it depends on the the risk level of the loan. The cool thing about private investing is that it's based on the deal. So the riskier the deal, the more expensive it is, right? The more conservative the deal, the less expensive. If it's a person that I've worked with a lot, it's a flipper, they're flipping a lot, they're always, you know, giving me the returns that they say they're gonna get, hey, maybe it's like a point and 9% interest. If it's like a second position lean on a guy that's like, I think he can perform, but it seems a little riskier, maybe it's twelve percent and two points.

Tim Gurule: [42:08] But the investors are just sitting back collecting simple interest, they're protected in first position on a note, typically we always wanna be in first position in foreclosure states, so only in states that we're allowed to foreclose on, and as far as like the overhead of the company, you know, we're gonna take the origination points up front to keep the lights on.

Dan Austin: [42:26] Makes sense. So you say states, foreclosure states, you're lending in in more than just like your home state, like you're lending to wherever the deal pops up, as long as the foreclosure state.

Tim Gurule: [42:36] As long as the foreclosure state, yeah. Meaning, like, I don't want to foreclose, we're gonna underwrite it, you know, so that we don't have to foreclose. But if we do have to foreclose, we wanna make sure that we're in a state that can execute that. So we don't wanna place loans in places, you know, where we can't get the investors capital back. Totally. We always wanna secure it against real real estate. So something that I understand, no cars, you know, no obscure businesses, no boats, just assets with sufficient loan to value that we can sell, put on the market, kick the can down the road, and get our investors their cash back.

Dan Austin: [43:08] Come on bro, you're not having to go sub two on a Corvette or something like that?

Tim Gurule: [43:12] No, that ain't my deal. You know what, that's boring for a lot of people, but you know what, I'd rather be boring and safe and just make sure everybody is protected and getting their cash back.

Dan Austin: [43:22] I agree, man.

Tim Gurule: [43:22] When you start taking other people's money, man, more than anything in the world, this sounds crazy, but like, I would rather lose my money than other people's money, and I would probably kill myself for the rest of my life to go get that money back. Like, whatever I had to do, you know? So I don't wanna do weird obscure loans. If we're growing slow, but because we're only placing conservative loans, and I know we're gonna get the investors money back, I'm fine with that. Rule number one is don't lose money.

Dan Austin: [43:50] Yes, exactly. What is that rule number two, see rule number one? That's right. I love it man. Good job on that, I respect that, and I'm kind of the same way, like taking on other people's money is such an intense responsibility, that the sense of that, like I track their money more than I do my money, I make sure their money is like upfront, like everything is like in order, like investor first, me last, and you have to be that way, because the minute you fracture that, which we're starting to see a shit ton, we're gonna see more of it in 2024, these gurus and these people out there that were just taking money, they had a great following on social media, and people trusted them because of that, and guess what, they were stealing it. Yep. And we're starting to see that so often, you cannot have that. Which I also like how you're putting your money in the deals, kinda like, hey, you know, if someone's gonna steal it, it's gonna steal my money too. So.

Tim Gurule: [44:37] It's a move of, in good faith, like, hey guys, like, I want this to be executed, like, I want this to be successful, you know. I love it. Okay. So we're getting

Dan Austin: [44:46] up on time here, let's get to the end of show questions, and you said something about a fourplex, so I wanna hear your craziest real estate story here, and I have a feeling it's gonna be a good one.

Tim Gurule: [44:56] Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna make it really short, because I know we're short on time. I bought this fourplex to this date, I've never seen it, never ever ever seen it. Every lesson you can learn as a new real estate investor, oh man, I learned it. I never went to the inspection, I got a cheapo inspector and he missed everything. Cracks in the foundation, water in the basement, leaky leaky appliances upstairs that were running into downstairs units. So I inherited this building instantly, tons of problem. I had no money, I spent every dime I had to buy this property. I had no reserves, no extra capital, man, every mistake you can make, right? I inherit this property and I got all these expenses now. And then on top of that, turns out when I bought the property, I overlooked a addendum in the contract because I was an idiot and I didn't read the contracts back then. The seller, instead of returning the security deposits back to the property manager, credited that by reducing the sales price. So I didn't inherit any deposits. And then on top of that, when I bought the building, I had a 50% vacancy. Two people moved out right away. I had no money to give them their deposits back. So now, I'm having to like steal from Peter to pay Paul to pay these deposits back. I'm trying to rehab these units, okay, I'm not making any money, rents were like $35,400, you know, and I was like in big trouble, okay? So I go through, I start rehabbing these units, I have no money, we're in a deficit for a couple years, I finally start breaking even to where, okay, I'm not losing money anymore, I'm just starting to break even, it's just been a nightmare, my wife's like, what have you got us into? And this guy stops paying rent. I had never dealt with a tenant that had never paid rent before, it's my first investment property.

Tim Gurule: [46:38] So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna be a nice guy, I'm gonna come alongside this guy, I'm gonna give him resources, get the church involved, get the food pantry, like, hey, how can I help you pay your rent? Guy doesn't give one crap, doesn't care, doesn't lift a finger. I even like, I hand deliver documents to him, all he has to do is sign and he gets these help programs, doesn't care. And what happens after that? COVID, okay? Eviction moratorium. 2.5 go by. This guy doesn't pay me rent, two and a half years. I'm stuck in this unit two and a half years, okay? I finally evict him two and a half years later, I walk in one of these units that he was in and it is destroyed. Okay? I'm looking at like a $25,000 rehab on a unit that produces $400 a month of rent. I'm just like totally upside down on this property. And at the same time, the city comes out and they slap a notice that I guess I have a structure on the property that is a hazard and they're like condemning the property, and I don't know what to do. Well, that week I get that notice, there's an arsonist in the neighborhood, and this dude is my best friend, if I ever find him I'm buying him a beer. Comes and lights my building on fire. Boy. He lights the building on fire and I a phone call from the sheriff's department and they're like, hey, this Tim Gruel? And I was like, yeah, yeah, they're like, well, you, your building caught on fire and you you need to come out here, we have an arsonist investigator that wants to talk to you, blah blah blah. So at first I'm like, Oh crap, this is terrible.

Tim Gurule: [48:04] Long story short, insurance adjuster comes out, they look at the damage and they end up paying me an insurance premium that covers the total rehab of the unit, a cleanup of the yard, a removal of all the junk that the city had like condemned the building for, and I have enough reserves to fund that reserve account. So it was like the greatest blessing that ever happened actually. But long story short is like everything that could go wrong on my first rental property, dude, I learned a lot of lessons, and I took those lessons and integrated them into SOPs that I have. When I purchase now, you know, have a checklist like, am I inheriting the deposits? You know, how thorough was the inspection? Did I check these items? You know, so at the time it was super crappy, but I paid tuition and that tuition has kept me from losing money on other properties that I would have lost money on if I hadn't had that experience.

Dan Austin: [48:53] That's wild dude. I'm kind of flabbergasted of like how messed up that first deal was. Mean that is not It was no First, need to light it on fire.

Tim Gurule: [49:02] Yeah. Yeah man, lessons learned.

Dan Austin: [49:05] That's so awesome. Stay in it long enough for an arsonist to come through the neighborhood.

Tim Gurule: [49:10] Dude, I'm telling you I'm gonna buy that guy a Dude, dude. He saved me dude. Seriously,

Dan Austin: [49:14] dude that's crazy. My God, alright, that's a first, that is a first for the podcast. We've got dead bodies here, but not something like that. Cool, okay, next question. What piece of advice would you give to a new investor, somebody getting started, what would you tell them, like how to get into this game, like what's gonna get them to the next level?

Tim Gurule: [49:31] Yeah, I would say show up into rooms full of people that are smarter than you, and keep your mouth shut. Don't be afraid to add value where you can, but just get in the rooms, and also jump off the cliff and build the airplane on the way down. You're not gonna have a clear picture, there's no perfect time, you're not gonna know exactly what to do. But if you're afraid of something and you're avoiding doing it, that's probably the thing that you need to do. So just start building. It doesn't matter if you don't have a clear picture. There's gonna refined clear picture. But ultimately, you just need to get in the game and get momentum going. I would have never guessed I'd be raising private capital for private loans, but I started doing social media because somebody told me to do it, and if you're investing, you need to do it. And then I started a podcast, and then I started lending, and I started buying properties, I learned my lessons, and it led to one, a led to b, led to c. You don't need to know where you're gonna end up, just start moving and start building. Things are going to happen, doors are going to open, your network's going to grow, just start. You don't need like a green light from God to say, hey, this is what you should be doing.

Dan Austin: [50:33] Yep, and you're never gonna get it if you're waiting for that. I love it, massive imperfect action. I still know that I have a lot of things that are in the works that I don't have the clear vision on, but just starting it, it's just like, you hear about people like, well how did you get started? It's like, I don't know, I just bought a fourplex and got my ass kicked by it, and then I learned from that, I kept going, and I kept going, and you only lose if you quit, so if you start something, committing to win and not quitting, you're going to be alright. And it might not actually have anything, by the time you're done with it, it might not have anything to do with where you thought it would go. Absolutely. It's just not quitting, pivoting, adjusting, not quitting, pivoting, adjusting.

Tim Gurule: [51:07] I think that's always the case. You're never gonna know where it goes. You're never ever gonna know where it goes, but you just have to start. And I was really lucky, everything that I've done really, that first part of that journey, the Fourplex, the hemp farm, I had a ranger buddy that we did this together. Like that guy that I was in battalion with who we were like best friends, we're in this ship together, so I was really lucky I had a partner, but even if you don't, like go out there, you're gonna find one, you're just gonna find somebody, and it's gonna come together.

Dan Austin: [51:31] Absolutely. Alright, last question, where can people find you, reach you, get ahold of you?

Tim Gurule: [51:36] Yeah. The best place to to hit me up is on Instagram at gurultim, g u r u l e t I m. I'm in there all the time, I'm super active. And then give the podcast a listen, it's called The Dynamis Podcast, d y n a m I s. You can find it in the link in my bio. There's a website, thedynamispodcast.com. But get in there, give it a listen, hit me up on social media gurultim, and I answer all my TMs, and happy to connect. Any stories or questions, like, I'm always in there, I'd love to connect.

Dan Austin: [52:08] Awesome, Tim. Well, this has been a pleasure. Always love reconnect with you, and seriously, reach out to Tim on any of the things he talked about today, or if you just got random questions, like we always say, people come on this show legitimately because they wanna talk to our audiences, they wanna meet you, they wanna help you, maybe there's a business deal to be had, you just never know until you reach out to people, and I know I've made some genuinely awesome connections by reaching out to podcast guests. So please do that. Other than that, if you wanna learn more about what we got going on here at Collecting Keys, go to collectingkeys.com, or follow me at investor man Dan, or our co host who's not here for this episode, Mike underscore invests. See you.

Tim Gurule: [52:45] See you.

Speaker 2: [52:46] Thanks for listening to collecting keys. Drop us a five star review on iTunes and send us a screenshot to Mike@collectingkeys.com for your chance to receive a free collecting keys t shirt.